5

votes

Zero carb for hardgainers?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 14, 2010 at 6:43 PM

I'm a hardgainer (i was very thin before starting paleo and now im really skinny) and i just wanted to know your opinion on eating nearly no carbs/no sugar. im practicing this since 2 months and im out of energy all the day and feel very dizzy. Im eating only high quality food (lamb, beef, 50 eggs a week, veggies, nuts, every now and then a fruit) but my body does not respond in the positive way it should.

Any ideas?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 23, 2012
at 12:42 AM

"As far as being a "hard gainer", adding some carbs may help you there as well. Insulin is an anabolic hormone. In fact, one of the most popular mass gaining diets is "GOMAD" (gallon of milk a day), which is a high insulin strategy (and definitely not paleo)." Thanks for that, that was helpful to me.

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21430)

on April 20, 2011
at 07:42 PM

Troll post is troll. Troll has been fed.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on November 18, 2010
at 01:58 PM

Also, as far as "fad diets" are concerned - the current USDA/AMA/AHA/ADA dietary guidelines for a low fat/high carb diet is the most "faddish" having only been recommended since the late 70's (McGovern Commission). Low carb diets to treat obesity and diabetes have been around for at least 120 years (Banting) and probably much longer (read Good Calories Bad Calories). The diet of our hominid ancestors (paleolithic era). Well, they ate that for about 2-2.5 million years and did really well on it (strong/tall/bigger brains and no evidence of diabetes/CVD/CHD)

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on November 18, 2010
at 01:50 PM

The science against grains (especially wheat) is pretty compelling. I am providing you with 3 references. As I only care about scientific truth, I would very much like to see any references that you can provide to debunk these arguments. BTW, many paleos are not "low carbers". Some are (I am, being diabetic). http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2009/6/23/the-argument-against-cereal-grains.html http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2010/3/12/the-argument-against-cereal-grains-ii.html http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/search/label/Wheat%20Germ%20Agglutinin%3B%20how%20little%20is%20enough%3F

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on November 18, 2010
at 01:38 PM

I really enjoyed watching the Cool Hand Luke scene - thanks for that!

D9ad0d8ec9efab9a38349bf7caf305ad

(20)

on November 17, 2010
at 10:20 PM

Atkins, Adkins. Who cares. It is still junk science. If your proof I am all wet is my misspelling of the name Atkins, so be it. My experience is that people hang on to beliefs tenaciously. Enjoy your diet.

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on November 17, 2010
at 07:09 PM

If you're going to pretend like you have some superior knowledge (which you implicitly do with your naked assertions of how "this is not a good way to eat"), it would help your credibility if you didn't misspell "Atkins". Unfortunately, there's not really any way for you to recover from saying that paleo "used to be 'Adkins'", given that paleo as a concept existed for at least twenty years prior to Atkins publishing his book and gaining popularity; your apparent belief of something about Paleo which is fundamentally false implies that your conclusions are inherently flawed. Well played sir!

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on November 17, 2010
at 11:45 AM

Proof was the keyword and you didn't provide that. I think we are open to new ideas but calling something a fad diet and not backing up your words with any science, is not really a way to win someone over.

D9ad0d8ec9efab9a38349bf7caf305ad

(20)

on November 16, 2010
at 06:28 PM

WOW, your command of sarcasm is breathtaking. Pardon while I bow to your superior command of that method. Notice though that my list of diets was not intended to be comprehensive. Did you notice that? And I never implied you didn't know about the other diets. I didn't know Dr. Voegtlin back in '75 when he published his book. There was a lot of crazy stuff being published back then. I guess I was busy running long slow distances and eating lots of pasta. What would he have thought of me!? I was in excellent shape by the way.Ate lots of beans and rice and salads and drank lots of beer.

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on November 16, 2010
at 12:14 PM

Wow, your breadth of understanding about these fad diets is incredible! I've never even heard of "Adkins", and must bow before your clearly superior depth of knowledge of human nutrition. Voegtlin could have learned something from you before he published his book, but alas.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on November 15, 2010
at 11:52 PM

@david, absolutely man. dont worry about it. No joke, i didnt feel right 100% of the time every single day until prolly a full three months of being absolute zero-plant-consumption. Again, not recommending that as ideal, it was just an experiment to see if i could really function without exogenous carbohydrate. Im normal ol' paleo nowadays. Still on the lower end of the carbohydrate spectrum. Theyre just a tool that we should know how to use. Multiple workouts close together? Then slam some good carbs in between etc. yknow.

D9ad0d8ec9efab9a38349bf7caf305ad

(20)

on November 15, 2010
at 09:38 PM

Proof its a fad? Diets come and go on a periodic basis. First its low fat. Then its low carb. Then its veggie. Every few years someone renames an old diet and it becomes new again. Paleo used to be low carb, or maybe even "Adkins." The best diet is balanced, with protein, fat, AND carbs, as well as veggies and fruits. Limit the calorie intake. Get some exercise. Anything else is silliness. The appeal to the paleolithic era is just a story to help make sense of the diet, to give it some plausibility, to give you something to identify with. Like a religion. Or a club.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on November 15, 2010
at 08:04 PM

Glad I'm not the only one to have carb-flu last this long, rather than the "two weeks" regularly cited.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on November 15, 2010
at 07:14 PM

Any proof for "It's a fad" ?

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on November 15, 2010
at 07:14 PM

Any claims for "It's a fad" ?

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on November 15, 2010
at 04:12 AM

Yep, I'd go with some potato and some fruit, maybe banana and other fruits that have good amounts of nutrients. And make sure to eat plenty of fat as well. Fruit plus fat at the same meal can help with weight gain. Or fat and starch is also good. Potato with butter and bacon! OK, now you are making me hungry..

Bbd50c115fa066bea3ac23a4e82447ff

(558)

on November 15, 2010
at 12:37 AM

I'm just confused about why you have gone so low carb if you're a hardgainer, as LC is often used to lose weight. If you don't have insulin resistance or other metabolic derangement, why go so low carb? Why not eat more veggies, including sweet potato, squash, etc (the things that those of us who are trying to lose weight avoid), and dairy? If you're not adversely affected by dairy, why not add some grass-fed dairy back in? Try moderately increasing the carbs through veg/fruit/dairy but still keep it under 100-150. And consume the carbier foods post-workout.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on November 14, 2010
at 09:44 PM

Ornish doesn't advocate enough meat or fat for good health.

628f408b603d44d3d0f3c74d86f8bff7

(35)

on November 14, 2010
at 08:32 PM

im going to add more carbs to my diet and give it a try - thanks! GOMAD is not a good idea for me, my body is reacting bad on big amounts of milk. And for leangains, i know this site already and i had an eye on his great results. thanks for the links! :)

628f408b603d44d3d0f3c74d86f8bff7

(35)

on November 14, 2010
at 08:30 PM

Im 21 years old and was in a quite good condition before starting paleo, so i skipped the doctors check. i just wanted to unleash my full energy with paleo. i ate SAD before paleo, so nothing special. i had no eye on getting enough fat, i just ate everything that was not able to dodge my mouth :P

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on November 14, 2010
at 07:35 PM

7 per day ? Damn boi :D

0e4e5882872d6a7c472ea51aec457e66

(1994)

on November 14, 2010
at 07:21 PM

What did you eat before starting Paleo? Do you get enough fat? Did your doctor make a check up recently and is everything OK with you?

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5 Answers

3
6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on November 14, 2010
at 07:24 PM

50 eggs a week--whoa, cool hand Luke!

Seriously, not everyone can tolerate ZC/low carb. If it was just "induction flu", you would probably feel better by now.

Consider adding more veggies and starchy tubers back into your diet until you feel better.

As far as being a "hard gainer", adding some carbs may help you there as well. Insulin is an anabolic hormone. In fact, one of the most popular mass gaining diets is "GOMAD" (gallon of milk a day), which is a high insulin strategy (and definitely not paleo).

On the other hand, once you dial in your optimal carb intake for health and energy level, you may want to go with more of a Leangains muscle-building approach, which ideally does not involve gaining fat along with the muscle.

Restore your health and energy first, then move on to muscle gains.

(Note: I'm not advocating GOMAD, just using it to illustrate the anabolic property of insulin.)

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on November 15, 2010
at 04:12 AM

Yep, I'd go with some potato and some fruit, maybe banana and other fruits that have good amounts of nutrients. And make sure to eat plenty of fat as well. Fruit plus fat at the same meal can help with weight gain. Or fat and starch is also good. Potato with butter and bacon! OK, now you are making me hungry..

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on November 18, 2010
at 01:38 PM

I really enjoyed watching the Cool Hand Luke scene - thanks for that!

628f408b603d44d3d0f3c74d86f8bff7

(35)

on November 14, 2010
at 08:32 PM

im going to add more carbs to my diet and give it a try - thanks! GOMAD is not a good idea for me, my body is reacting bad on big amounts of milk. And for leangains, i know this site already and i had an eye on his great results. thanks for the links! :)

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 23, 2012
at 12:42 AM

"As far as being a "hard gainer", adding some carbs may help you there as well. Insulin is an anabolic hormone. In fact, one of the most popular mass gaining diets is "GOMAD" (gallon of milk a day), which is a high insulin strategy (and definitely not paleo)." Thanks for that, that was helpful to me.

2
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on November 15, 2010
at 03:35 PM

Remember that paleo does not equal low-carb necessarily. True, many of us (me included) do eat in a lowcarb range but others do not. Anyway, when i started VLC i would say i had the "carb flu" or whatever you wanna call it for prolly a whole two months (though it came and went). It really did last a good amount of time. All i can say is that i know that after a full three months of essentially zerocarbing (i ate solely animal products, no plant matter at all) i feel absolutely fine. No more moments where i have no motivation to do anything. Really, i would say give it maybe another month.

But still, like others have said, there really is no reason for you to go zerocarb, unless youre just selfexperimenting, which is what i was doing. Eat more salad-y veg, eat sweet potatoes, etc. If youve been skinny for a while i think it will be very apparent as soon as you start to gain weight, be it muscle or fat. Sounds vain but i find a daily morning and then night full length mirror check with your naked self is all it takes to monitor closely. No scale, no calipers. Just look at yourself naked and see what looks different. Then amend the diet accordingly.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on November 15, 2010
at 08:04 PM

Glad I'm not the only one to have carb-flu last this long, rather than the "two weeks" regularly cited.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on November 15, 2010
at 11:52 PM

@david, absolutely man. dont worry about it. No joke, i didnt feel right 100% of the time every single day until prolly a full three months of being absolute zero-plant-consumption. Again, not recommending that as ideal, it was just an experiment to see if i could really function without exogenous carbohydrate. Im normal ol' paleo nowadays. Still on the lower end of the carbohydrate spectrum. Theyre just a tool that we should know how to use. Multiple workouts close together? Then slam some good carbs in between etc. yknow.

0
13c5a9f1678d75b93f269cdcf69f14d5

(2339)

on November 17, 2010
at 02:32 AM

Food intolerance is a possibility. Not a fad, alas!

0
B2157bdf4a217ac943c41125d1a67845

(258)

on November 14, 2010
at 09:01 PM

Just for the hell of it, I would try meat and water only, for two weeks. This may do some amazing things for you. Also, check if you're in ketosys. You may not be looking for a ketogenic diet, but if you go into ketosys, you should find yourself with lots of energy.

Ultimately, you may want more carbs and vegetables in your diet. Gardner's study indicates that people who are insulin sensitive, (which sounds like your case), might do better on an Ornish type diet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on November 14, 2010
at 09:44 PM

Ornish doesn't advocate enough meat or fat for good health.

-6
D9ad0d8ec9efab9a38349bf7caf305ad

on November 15, 2010
at 06:53 PM

Your body is not responding because this is not a good way to eat. Eat a variety of foods. balanced diet is the best. Find out if you are allergic to any foods and avoid those, but otherwise, don't eliminate grains! Its a fad.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on November 15, 2010
at 07:14 PM

Any proof for "It's a fad" ?

D9ad0d8ec9efab9a38349bf7caf305ad

(20)

on November 15, 2010
at 09:38 PM

Proof its a fad? Diets come and go on a periodic basis. First its low fat. Then its low carb. Then its veggie. Every few years someone renames an old diet and it becomes new again. Paleo used to be low carb, or maybe even "Adkins." The best diet is balanced, with protein, fat, AND carbs, as well as veggies and fruits. Limit the calorie intake. Get some exercise. Anything else is silliness. The appeal to the paleolithic era is just a story to help make sense of the diet, to give it some plausibility, to give you something to identify with. Like a religion. Or a club.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on November 17, 2010
at 11:45 AM

Proof was the keyword and you didn't provide that. I think we are open to new ideas but calling something a fad diet and not backing up your words with any science, is not really a way to win someone over.

D9ad0d8ec9efab9a38349bf7caf305ad

(20)

on November 16, 2010
at 06:28 PM

WOW, your command of sarcasm is breathtaking. Pardon while I bow to your superior command of that method. Notice though that my list of diets was not intended to be comprehensive. Did you notice that? And I never implied you didn't know about the other diets. I didn't know Dr. Voegtlin back in '75 when he published his book. There was a lot of crazy stuff being published back then. I guess I was busy running long slow distances and eating lots of pasta. What would he have thought of me!? I was in excellent shape by the way.Ate lots of beans and rice and salads and drank lots of beer.

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on November 17, 2010
at 07:09 PM

If you're going to pretend like you have some superior knowledge (which you implicitly do with your naked assertions of how "this is not a good way to eat"), it would help your credibility if you didn't misspell "Atkins". Unfortunately, there's not really any way for you to recover from saying that paleo "used to be 'Adkins'", given that paleo as a concept existed for at least twenty years prior to Atkins publishing his book and gaining popularity; your apparent belief of something about Paleo which is fundamentally false implies that your conclusions are inherently flawed. Well played sir!

D9ad0d8ec9efab9a38349bf7caf305ad

(20)

on November 17, 2010
at 10:20 PM

Atkins, Adkins. Who cares. It is still junk science. If your proof I am all wet is my misspelling of the name Atkins, so be it. My experience is that people hang on to beliefs tenaciously. Enjoy your diet.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on November 18, 2010
at 01:58 PM

Also, as far as "fad diets" are concerned - the current USDA/AMA/AHA/ADA dietary guidelines for a low fat/high carb diet is the most "faddish" having only been recommended since the late 70's (McGovern Commission). Low carb diets to treat obesity and diabetes have been around for at least 120 years (Banting) and probably much longer (read Good Calories Bad Calories). The diet of our hominid ancestors (paleolithic era). Well, they ate that for about 2-2.5 million years and did really well on it (strong/tall/bigger brains and no evidence of diabetes/CVD/CHD)

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on November 16, 2010
at 12:14 PM

Wow, your breadth of understanding about these fad diets is incredible! I've never even heard of "Adkins", and must bow before your clearly superior depth of knowledge of human nutrition. Voegtlin could have learned something from you before he published his book, but alas.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on November 15, 2010
at 07:14 PM

Any claims for "It's a fad" ?

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on November 18, 2010
at 01:50 PM

The science against grains (especially wheat) is pretty compelling. I am providing you with 3 references. As I only care about scientific truth, I would very much like to see any references that you can provide to debunk these arguments. BTW, many paleos are not "low carbers". Some are (I am, being diabetic). http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2009/6/23/the-argument-against-cereal-grains.html http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2010/3/12/the-argument-against-cereal-grains-ii.html http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/search/label/Wheat%20Germ%20Agglutinin%3B%20how%20little%20is%20enough%3F

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21430)

on April 20, 2011
at 07:42 PM

Troll post is troll. Troll has been fed.

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