11

votes

Why should I hate sugar?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 26, 2011 at 6:13 PM

I need to build the case against sugar, reasons why it is no good for me. Sugar addiction is my Achilles heel, I have to battle against it.

What should I read? Videos? For example I measured out all the sugar in a chocolate bar, it was a lot!! What else can I do to really drive the point home!

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 24, 2012
at 07:48 AM

Did you experiment with it, or do you say that just because you ate more sweet things? I thought for a long while that my gout was caused by the candy I ate, but it was actually cutting out bread that solved it.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 24, 2012
at 07:44 AM

*"Once I learned that without a doubt, sugar was harmful, it was easy to stop it completely"* Is sugar really the only thing you removed out of your diet? I just looks a bit weird to me that you're 100% sure it was the sugar making you unhealthy, while you mention you were on a low-fat high-carb diet. I doubt you were eating pure sugar and then removed it and saw a huge difference? High-carb usually means high-starch, high-phosphorus and high-gluten on the SAD.

65bf1ca7071028018c6d8305d0ddcd76

(3049)

on March 25, 2012
at 05:09 PM

Interesting link, but that is an awfully limited sample who consumed a limited amount of sugar : Four groups (eight subjects each) of normal-weight subjects were given a 300-cal drink of glucose (75 g), fructose (75 g), or orange juice or water sweetened with saccharin (control group) to drink, and then blood samples were collected. During a period of my life I was overtraining (skating upwards of 12 hours a week, attending 9 hours of team practices, daily weight training and yoga). This led to chronic compartment syndrome in my legs which was greatly exacerbated by the consumption of sugar.

58c33847c5b7ecbf6572075df2cdd002

(866)

on March 25, 2012
at 02:04 PM

It's a good thing they don't sell it in my grocery store :-) That's the only thing that keeps it moderate! It's more of a problem when I travel internationally because then I drink a couple of bottles a day. But when I'm in the US I don't really drink it that often since I stopped going to the restaurants where they sell it.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on March 24, 2012
at 11:08 PM

Not according to studies http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757696 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17384340

D4d83e7981ca572aaaa19fc620bb54f1

(467)

on March 24, 2012
at 09:34 PM

I mean, I think sugar is not as bad as grains.

D4d83e7981ca572aaaa19fc620bb54f1

(467)

on March 24, 2012
at 09:31 PM

I think of Peat too when I have my doubts about sugar. I think he is right, as long as sugar is eaten in moderation and in a healthy diet.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on March 24, 2012
at 09:29 PM

Maybe you crave coke for a reason its a great source of Co2 and sugar which are both highly anti-stress. Nothing wrong with mexican coke or pepsi throwback in moderation.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on March 24, 2012
at 09:25 PM

Dfh- Can you pass a glucose tolerance test.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on March 24, 2012
at 09:24 PM

DFH- Removing carbohydrates in your case is a band aid fix.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on March 24, 2012
at 09:23 PM

High carbohydrate diets make you the most insulin sensitive period, its been shown over and over in just about every study. Free fatty acids are what make you insulin resistance and glucose intolerant.

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 09, 2012
at 06:39 PM

Thanks. I agree that low-fat was bad...but what about adding sugar to a diet with moderate to high saturated fat (low to no PUFA)?

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on March 09, 2012
at 05:28 PM

Apologies if I don't fit into the unified "paleo" theory.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on March 09, 2012
at 05:26 PM

"Rationalization, for Weber, is very different both from practical "rationalism," which is a universal feature of the human quest for pragmatic mastery of the ordinary contingencies of life, and from the unique (and on many count irrational) culture of Western "rationality," which attempts to order all of life according to a unified set of meanings. In stark contrast to practical rationalism there is nothing natural about Western rationality which indeed involves the repression of many natural human feelings and aspirations..." ~Ann Swidler on Max Weber

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on March 09, 2012
at 05:21 PM

Life is short, I would much rather spend my time doing something I love and has personal meaning then base my life off of inconclusive evidence. You wouldn't tell somebody not to volunteer for the military if that is something they really wanted to do would you, they are volunteering, they know the risks. I know the risks of what I do.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on March 09, 2012
at 05:08 PM

I'm willing to entertain that @PrimalDanny, however, I'm 29 years old, I look at pictures of others who are the same age as me and they look terribly aged and they do very little physical activity compared to me. I'm not saying that is why I'm still looking wet behind the ears, I'm just saying, the paradigm that physical activity is life shortening is far from conclusive. In the end, if it shaves a couple years off the end, I will gladly give that up for something that I enjoy doing.

03bb06ced2ae02a265909342d4cf3e75

(793)

on March 09, 2012
at 04:40 PM

Is it possible you were IR because you were low-fat, not because you were high-carb?

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 09, 2012
at 04:30 PM

...ran out of space. If someone wants to explain why I should add carbs for IR, when my doc removed carbs and it worked, I'm all ears. if someone wants to argue that lack of carbs causes IR, I wonder how this accounts for me becoming badly IR while training my ass off and drinking sugar-choked Gatorade. :)

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 09, 2012
at 04:27 PM

Sure. I first picked up IR while exercising my butt off in a sport that is part strength, part cardio. My dr had me see a dietitian after a surgery, and I get the low fat lecture. Off I go training and become a low-fat sugar burner. I end up with trigs off the charts, as high as 1,600. After 6 months of this exercise, I'm tired, 245lb, and running on carbs since I'm supposed to be low fat. Fast forward, health gets worse, I'm over 300, and falling apart. My doc finds IR, says do VLC, take these meds. I developed IR while exercising my butt off and doing carbs/sugar. I beat IR by doing VLC.

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 09, 2012
at 02:57 PM

@DFH: insulin resistance is a big part of this article. Could you elaborate why it is wrong on the subject of insulin resistance?

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 09, 2012
at 02:55 PM

I'm not going to bother to take that stuff apart. Whoever wrote it never heard of insulin resistance I guess.

Ebcbbdcb8b727e69e06eaa102d49a84c

(1804)

on March 09, 2012
at 02:23 PM

Thanks for sharing. Very informative.

Ccacf7567273244733bc991af4ac42ed

(5198)

on March 09, 2012
at 01:50 PM

2000-3000 additional Calories worth of sport a day, every day, has probably already taken you off the long-term health path.

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 09, 2012
at 01:07 PM

I had a laugh when watching Lustig. Besides points that can be made against his ideas, see for example a link in your link to Mark Sisson, the guy seems overconfident, really didn't enjoy his presentation style.

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 09, 2012
at 12:53 PM

Well actually, the Mark Sisson page also links to article going against Lustig.

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 09, 2012
at 12:49 PM

Arguing againt Lustig, http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/10/27/reader-mail-beneficial-effects-of-fructose-overweight-doctor.html

956bcad1d462d433a4e1e22f6e3355d5

(1191)

on March 09, 2012
at 12:13 PM

Guess it's a food reward for the seller.

B7fec4bf394de8dfa6403067aea94e1b

(1546)

on March 09, 2012
at 10:47 AM

I had a similar experience - I found that I could chase the sugar cravings away by eating a little highly fermented full-fat yogurt.

E2b72f1912f777917d8ee6b7fba43c26

(2384)

on March 09, 2012
at 09:38 AM

Actually, if your liver glycogen is depleted, it's not that bad...

7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on March 09, 2012
at 03:12 AM

Sugar is the devil. When you get this figured out let me know with step by step instructions. I only eat my sugar with chocolate though.

03bb06ced2ae02a265909342d4cf3e75

(793)

on March 09, 2012
at 02:43 AM

I upvoted this because I not only kind of agree with the whole rant (and I'm a Ray Peat convert, so I'm biased), but I really agree with the point about needing to talk about sugar in some kind of context. We all pretty much agree that wheat is evil, but I don't think you can say the same about sugar. Sugar is complex, and I think there are a fairly significant number of newbies to paleo that should not try to eliminate all sugar across the board. I did this at first, and it hurt me more than it helped.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on March 09, 2012
at 02:21 AM

When I'm unsure or don't know or suspect something is different from what I'm familiar with or I haven't given enough time to study a topic, I will study and experiment and read diligently. So while I was in my cave I read about different kinds of tools and then I built them by hand and then mastered the technique.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 28, 2011
at 02:28 PM

Looks like common suicidal strategy: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100118082117AAtLH1e

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 28, 2011
at 02:26 PM

Hey, you are right, orange juice would end fast dying for sure: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_worms_eat_orange_peels

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 28, 2011
at 02:06 PM

Maybe if they ate some orange juice they would have lived longer. :)

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 28, 2011
at 02:06 PM

Glucose specifically. I've seen another paper were glucose caused oxidative stress: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/6/1406.short

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 27, 2011
at 07:27 PM

But Ipso Facto, you were correct in this regard, it was a rant and your right I don't have the tools to discus sugar in the context of whether or not it is an agent of aging, metabolic derangement, or glycation. However, I'm curious can you point out a culture that did add white sugar to their diet that didn't displace their otherwise nutritional traditional diet?

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 27, 2011
at 07:18 PM

I also think I made it pretty clear that for regular people it would be wise to avoid it. That is not sugar in moderation because you are implying that I mean this for all people regardless of context. Don't pull what I say out of context. I gave specific examples of when I think sugar is harmless and when I think it is harmful.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 27, 2011
at 07:14 PM

It's absolutely useless to build an argument against white sugar if it is taken out of context. That's precisely how cholesterol and saturated fat was demonized. Additionally, while the issues you raised are valid questions, the question is "Why should I hate sugar?", to which I ranted about context. If you want to make a case against sugar do so in context so that it has some actually real world meaning.

81a52efad6effda9eff3a3dcbc5f0ec6

(47)

on October 27, 2011
at 05:33 PM

Nonsensical rant. The issue is not nutrient density or whether sugar crowds out other nutrient-dense foods. The issue is excess sugar as a specific agent of aging, metabolic derangement, glycation, and the elevation of all Neolithic diseases. Added sugar combined with something nutrient dense you may be eating is still harmful, if you consume sugar in excess. What you're advocating is sugar consumption in moderation, which is a legitimate argument as advanced by someone like Peats or Feinman. But you do not yet have the tools grasp that argument.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 27, 2011
at 02:00 PM

Dang. Down vote.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 27, 2011
at 09:34 AM

My point is that context is everything, if that wasn't clear. If I wasn't active I'd ditch the white sugar. In one setting sugar can be productive in another it can be detrimental. What's that old saying... "There is a time and place for everything."

D117467bf8e8472464ece2b81509606c

(2873)

on October 27, 2011
at 12:33 AM

It's a drug....

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on October 27, 2011
at 12:25 AM

I've found that darker chocolates taste great once you wean yourself off lots of added sugar.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on October 26, 2011
at 11:58 PM

This is a great, thought-provoking question but the truth is hate is an emotion and "why" relates to logic. There is no reason that I hate cottage cheese, other than flavor, and there's no reason that I love sweets other than flavor. I DO love sugar but I understand that I should avoid eating only high-sugar foods.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 26, 2011
at 09:16 PM

j/k, sugar is awesome :P

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 26, 2011
at 09:15 PM

And here is irrelevant part about its effect on humans: http://www.sugarisadrug.com/78-ways-sugar-ruins-health.html

Medium avatar

(39821)

on October 26, 2011
at 08:34 PM

So have you tried to just eat higher cocoa percentages? Additionally, I've heard that a magnesium deficiency can increase chocolate cravings. Do you supplement Mg?

Medium avatar

(39821)

on October 26, 2011
at 08:33 PM

So have you tried to just eater higher cocoa percentages?

6714718e2245e5190017d643a7614157

on October 26, 2011
at 07:51 PM

Minnie, I used to eat a lot of candy (lots of M&Ms) but I started consuming fermented foods like milk kefir and water kefir on a regular basis after a month on paleo and my sweet cravings went away about 30 days later. So there is hope for you. I think re-populating the good bacteria in your gut will lessen your cravings for sugar, at least that was my experience.

560821f3e7352455c3ebc2283d424f2e

on October 26, 2011
at 07:09 PM

Thanks, will look at.

560821f3e7352455c3ebc2283d424f2e

on October 26, 2011
at 07:08 PM

Perfect! Will check out, just what I need!

560821f3e7352455c3ebc2283d424f2e

on October 26, 2011
at 07:08 PM

Fruits are ok. It's all the stupid chocolate bars - which are basically all sugar. Drat! Sugar and me are having a painful divorce!

8ce2e69af79dcb1488f776efc1c54052

on October 26, 2011
at 07:08 PM

Check out this book on sugar! http://thecommonsensewarrior.com/2011/10/26/book-review-sugar-nation-by-jeff-oconnell/

Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

14 Answers

13
7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on October 26, 2011
at 06:18 PM

Start with Robert Lustig's Sugar: The Bitter Truth on YouTube. Then read Gary Taubes' Is Sugar Toxic?

Other good resources:

560821f3e7352455c3ebc2283d424f2e

on October 26, 2011
at 07:08 PM

Perfect! Will check out, just what I need!

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 09, 2012
at 12:53 PM

Well actually, the Mark Sisson page also links to article going against Lustig.

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 09, 2012
at 12:49 PM

Arguing againt Lustig, http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/10/27/reader-mail-beneficial-effects-of-fructose-overweight-doctor.html

Ebcbbdcb8b727e69e06eaa102d49a84c

(1804)

on March 09, 2012
at 02:23 PM

Thanks for sharing. Very informative.

3
Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 09, 2012
at 12:09 PM

Ray Peat argued in favor of sugar. See an overview here:

http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2012/2/27/sugar-pure-white-awesome.html

Can any Paleohackers explain where they disagree? Although Ray Peat is Paleo on many aspects, there seems to be a strong divide on sugar and carb consumption.

I got very positive results from adjusting my diet with Ray Peat's (fructose, calcium, food combinations, etc) so I'd be really interested to know.

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 09, 2012
at 02:55 PM

I'm not going to bother to take that stuff apart. Whoever wrote it never heard of insulin resistance I guess.

03bb06ced2ae02a265909342d4cf3e75

(793)

on March 09, 2012
at 04:40 PM

Is it possible you were IR because you were low-fat, not because you were high-carb?

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 09, 2012
at 04:30 PM

...ran out of space. If someone wants to explain why I should add carbs for IR, when my doc removed carbs and it worked, I'm all ears. if someone wants to argue that lack of carbs causes IR, I wonder how this accounts for me becoming badly IR while training my ass off and drinking sugar-choked Gatorade. :)

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 09, 2012
at 06:39 PM

Thanks. I agree that low-fat was bad...but what about adding sugar to a diet with moderate to high saturated fat (low to no PUFA)?

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 09, 2012
at 02:57 PM

@DFH: insulin resistance is a big part of this article. Could you elaborate why it is wrong on the subject of insulin resistance?

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 09, 2012
at 04:27 PM

Sure. I first picked up IR while exercising my butt off in a sport that is part strength, part cardio. My dr had me see a dietitian after a surgery, and I get the low fat lecture. Off I go training and become a low-fat sugar burner. I end up with trigs off the charts, as high as 1,600. After 6 months of this exercise, I'm tired, 245lb, and running on carbs since I'm supposed to be low fat. Fast forward, health gets worse, I'm over 300, and falling apart. My doc finds IR, says do VLC, take these meds. I developed IR while exercising my butt off and doing carbs/sugar. I beat IR by doing VLC.

D4d83e7981ca572aaaa19fc620bb54f1

(467)

on March 24, 2012
at 09:34 PM

I mean, I think sugar is not as bad as grains.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on March 24, 2012
at 09:25 PM

Dfh- Can you pass a glucose tolerance test.

D4d83e7981ca572aaaa19fc620bb54f1

(467)

on March 24, 2012
at 09:31 PM

I think of Peat too when I have my doubts about sugar. I think he is right, as long as sugar is eaten in moderation and in a healthy diet.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on March 24, 2012
at 09:24 PM

DFH- Removing carbohydrates in your case is a band aid fix.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on March 24, 2012
at 09:23 PM

High carbohydrate diets make you the most insulin sensitive period, its been shown over and over in just about every study. Free fatty acids are what make you insulin resistance and glucose intolerant.

2
58c33847c5b7ecbf6572075df2cdd002

on March 09, 2012
at 02:40 PM

I read an article a few months ago (which, of course, I can't find now) that detailed how there are 8 things that make a substance addictive. The article went on to say that sugar has 5 of these things - which was more than cocaine or alcohol.

In trying to find that article, I did find this: http://drryanbentley.com/2012/are-you-addicted-to-the-most-addictive-substance/

I love sugar. I really do. My biggest weakness is non-US Coca Cola (made with sugar instead of HFCS). That used to not be such a problem since I could only get it when I traveled outside the United States. But now even my local grocery store carries Mexican Coke. And the sub shop across the street from my condo, called Larry's, carries it. I used to think it was cute to say I was "going to Larry's to get some Mexican Coke," but now I feel like I would be better off if I was actually getting Mexican coke. Man, I really gotta quit.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on March 24, 2012
at 09:29 PM

Maybe you crave coke for a reason its a great source of Co2 and sugar which are both highly anti-stress. Nothing wrong with mexican coke or pepsi throwback in moderation.

58c33847c5b7ecbf6572075df2cdd002

(866)

on March 25, 2012
at 02:04 PM

It's a good thing they don't sell it in my grocery store :-) That's the only thing that keeps it moderate! It's more of a problem when I travel internationally because then I drink a couple of bottles a day. But when I'm in the US I don't really drink it that often since I stopped going to the restaurants where they sell it.

2
E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 09, 2012
at 09:33 AM

Different strokes or different folks. Once I learned that without a doubt, sugar was harmful, it was easy to stop it completely by getting mad at it. I guess that is the opposite of hyperpalatability.

Maybe that's why food reward gets under my skin so much. It's as far away as reality as I can be. I see sugar treats in the store and think, "crap, evil, poison, why does that even exist!?" Food reward my ass! I really do hate that stuff!

956bcad1d462d433a4e1e22f6e3355d5

(1191)

on March 09, 2012
at 12:13 PM

Guess it's a food reward for the seller.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 24, 2012
at 07:44 AM

*"Once I learned that without a doubt, sugar was harmful, it was easy to stop it completely"* Is sugar really the only thing you removed out of your diet? I just looks a bit weird to me that you're 100% sure it was the sugar making you unhealthy, while you mention you were on a low-fat high-carb diet. I doubt you were eating pure sugar and then removed it and saw a huge difference? High-carb usually means high-starch, high-phosphorus and high-gluten on the SAD.

2
B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 26, 2011
at 10:51 PM

I'm not going to pretend to hate sugar because I don't and because I'm biased. I think it's more important to hate the context rather than the sugar.

Sugar causes problems when you let it invade the overall quality of your diet in my opinion. Most people who switch to a Paleo type diet did so because they were unhealthy. For those individuals it is probably wise to minimize pure white sugar. I think this is especially true if your daily caloric intake is low. So if you are eating 1500-2000 calories a day it's probably wise to eat only the nutrient dense foods. If all your eating is 1500-2000 calories a day lets say you eat 500 calories from white sugar. Basically 25% of your diet is coming from white sugar with absolutely no minerals or vitamins. With a caloric intake that low you are just begging for problems. In that case the white sugar is the problem because in context your not getting enough whole foods again with the vitamins and minerals for your body to operate properly. So I think, or at least I say that in this particular context sugar is the indirect cause but your nutrient status is the direct cause. Big difference. And blaming sugar is a cop out, take responsibility and blame yourself. If you have a sugar addiction more than likely you're not getting enough of some nutrient.

Now lets take somebody who is extremely active. Lets say to maintain their basic metabolic caloric intake they are eating a good nutrient dense diet. However they also need an additional 2000-3000 calories a day because they participate in a sport. It would be easy to say okay, I'm eating 2000 calories to maintain my BMR from nutrient dense foods so I should be able to eat white sugar for the rest of my diet because I just need something to burn. Not so fast. You also have to take into consideration that your going to need to replace any minerals and vitamins that you lost during your activities in addition to the fuel. So as you can see even if you are working out a lot your still losing more than just energy your also loosing minerals and vitamins.

Okay so here is how I approach things. I run 100+ miles a week. I eat eggs, butter, a little meat and liver, milk, cream, and cheese, and bone broths, potatoes, etc. A really Paleo type diet that nobody on here could disagree with. However, I also drink a lot of home squeezed pulp free orange juice and whole ripe fruits. When I consume white sugar, it's always mixed in coffee with milk or cream, chocolate milk, hot chocolate made with egg yolks, ice cream, milk and honey, etc. It's always mixed with something nutrient dense. It's never just empty sugar calories.

Even when I have things like white rice, it's never just white rice, I'll make a cream sauce.

Again, when people have problems it's not the sugar, it's: what is white sugar invading? If it is invading the quality of your diet, then you have what's coming. If your addicted to sugar it's usually because something else is wrong. A good portion of the foods I eat have lots of sugar. I do not have a sweet tooth nor do I crave sugar or sweets. It's just part of my diet just like everything else I eat.

These anti-sugar "experts", my problem with them is that they can't see the forest from the trees. They are ignoring the larger problem of diet quality. Especially the outspoken ones. I would guess that they have some deep seeded psychological issues and nutrient imbalances judging from their demeanor and critical reasoning skills.

If you want to hate sugar because it helps you eat a better diet. Good. Just realize the solution to the problem is to eat a nutrient dense diet i.e. take care of yourself.

Food for thought: Perhaps sugar science only shows trends towards disease because it is placed in the context of a overall world wide decline in diet quality.

Update March 9, 2012: I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that white sugar is quite beneficial, it's no secret that I pound oranges, but behind the scenes for a very a long time I've been riding the dark horse, she has led me down the straight and narrow.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 27, 2011
at 07:14 PM

It's absolutely useless to build an argument against white sugar if it is taken out of context. That's precisely how cholesterol and saturated fat was demonized. Additionally, while the issues you raised are valid questions, the question is "Why should I hate sugar?", to which I ranted about context. If you want to make a case against sugar do so in context so that it has some actually real world meaning.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 27, 2011
at 09:34 AM

My point is that context is everything, if that wasn't clear. If I wasn't active I'd ditch the white sugar. In one setting sugar can be productive in another it can be detrimental. What's that old saying... "There is a time and place for everything."

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 27, 2011
at 02:00 PM

Dang. Down vote.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 27, 2011
at 07:27 PM

But Ipso Facto, you were correct in this regard, it was a rant and your right I don't have the tools to discus sugar in the context of whether or not it is an agent of aging, metabolic derangement, or glycation. However, I'm curious can you point out a culture that did add white sugar to their diet that didn't displace their otherwise nutritional traditional diet?

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 27, 2011
at 07:18 PM

I also think I made it pretty clear that for regular people it would be wise to avoid it. That is not sugar in moderation because you are implying that I mean this for all people regardless of context. Don't pull what I say out of context. I gave specific examples of when I think sugar is harmless and when I think it is harmful.

81a52efad6effda9eff3a3dcbc5f0ec6

(47)

on October 27, 2011
at 05:33 PM

Nonsensical rant. The issue is not nutrient density or whether sugar crowds out other nutrient-dense foods. The issue is excess sugar as a specific agent of aging, metabolic derangement, glycation, and the elevation of all Neolithic diseases. Added sugar combined with something nutrient dense you may be eating is still harmful, if you consume sugar in excess. What you're advocating is sugar consumption in moderation, which is a legitimate argument as advanced by someone like Peats or Feinman. But you do not yet have the tools grasp that argument.

Ccacf7567273244733bc991af4ac42ed

(5198)

on March 09, 2012
at 01:50 PM

2000-3000 additional Calories worth of sport a day, every day, has probably already taken you off the long-term health path.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on March 09, 2012
at 05:21 PM

Life is short, I would much rather spend my time doing something I love and has personal meaning then base my life off of inconclusive evidence. You wouldn't tell somebody not to volunteer for the military if that is something they really wanted to do would you, they are volunteering, they know the risks. I know the risks of what I do.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on March 09, 2012
at 05:28 PM

Apologies if I don't fit into the unified "paleo" theory.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on March 09, 2012
at 05:26 PM

"Rationalization, for Weber, is very different both from practical "rationalism," which is a universal feature of the human quest for pragmatic mastery of the ordinary contingencies of life, and from the unique (and on many count irrational) culture of Western "rationality," which attempts to order all of life according to a unified set of meanings. In stark contrast to practical rationalism there is nothing natural about Western rationality which indeed involves the repression of many natural human feelings and aspirations..." ~Ann Swidler on Max Weber

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on March 09, 2012
at 02:21 AM

When I'm unsure or don't know or suspect something is different from what I'm familiar with or I haven't given enough time to study a topic, I will study and experiment and read diligently. So while I was in my cave I read about different kinds of tools and then I built them by hand and then mastered the technique.

03bb06ced2ae02a265909342d4cf3e75

(793)

on March 09, 2012
at 02:43 AM

I upvoted this because I not only kind of agree with the whole rant (and I'm a Ray Peat convert, so I'm biased), but I really agree with the point about needing to talk about sugar in some kind of context. We all pretty much agree that wheat is evil, but I don't think you can say the same about sugar. Sugar is complex, and I think there are a fairly significant number of newbies to paleo that should not try to eliminate all sugar across the board. I did this at first, and it hurt me more than it helped.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on March 09, 2012
at 05:08 PM

I'm willing to entertain that @PrimalDanny, however, I'm 29 years old, I look at pictures of others who are the same age as me and they look terribly aged and they do very little physical activity compared to me. I'm not saying that is why I'm still looking wet behind the ears, I'm just saying, the paradigm that physical activity is life shortening is far from conclusive. In the end, if it shaves a couple years off the end, I will gladly give that up for something that I enjoy doing.

2
Medium avatar

on October 26, 2011
at 06:31 PM

Are you actually eating things sweetened with sucrose or do you mean sugar from fruit? There's a fair amount of nutrition to be gained from fruit (potassium, vitamin C, manganese, etc.) so the presence of sugars isn't all that big of a deal.

560821f3e7352455c3ebc2283d424f2e

on October 26, 2011
at 07:08 PM

Fruits are ok. It's all the stupid chocolate bars - which are basically all sugar. Drat! Sugar and me are having a painful divorce!

Medium avatar

(39821)

on October 26, 2011
at 08:33 PM

So have you tried to just eater higher cocoa percentages?

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on October 27, 2011
at 12:25 AM

I've found that darker chocolates taste great once you wean yourself off lots of added sugar.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on October 26, 2011
at 08:34 PM

So have you tried to just eat higher cocoa percentages? Additionally, I've heard that a magnesium deficiency can increase chocolate cravings. Do you supplement Mg?

1
6714718e2245e5190017d643a7614157

on October 26, 2011
at 06:26 PM

Here is something else you might want to read:

http://www.sugarshockblog.com/2007/12/salt-the-forgot.html

560821f3e7352455c3ebc2283d424f2e

on October 26, 2011
at 07:09 PM

Thanks, will look at.

6714718e2245e5190017d643a7614157

on October 26, 2011
at 07:51 PM

Minnie, I used to eat a lot of candy (lots of M&Ms) but I started consuming fermented foods like milk kefir and water kefir on a regular basis after a month on paleo and my sweet cravings went away about 30 days later. So there is hope for you. I think re-populating the good bacteria in your gut will lessen your cravings for sugar, at least that was my experience.

B7fec4bf394de8dfa6403067aea94e1b

(1546)

on March 09, 2012
at 10:47 AM

I had a similar experience - I found that I could chase the sugar cravings away by eating a little highly fermented full-fat yogurt.

0
65bf1ca7071028018c6d8305d0ddcd76

(3049)

on March 24, 2012
at 08:52 PM

For my body, consuming sugar leads to inflammation.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on March 24, 2012
at 11:08 PM

Not according to studies http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757696 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17384340

65bf1ca7071028018c6d8305d0ddcd76

(3049)

on March 25, 2012
at 05:09 PM

Interesting link, but that is an awfully limited sample who consumed a limited amount of sugar : Four groups (eight subjects each) of normal-weight subjects were given a 300-cal drink of glucose (75 g), fructose (75 g), or orange juice or water sweetened with saccharin (control group) to drink, and then blood samples were collected. During a period of my life I was overtraining (skating upwards of 12 hours a week, attending 9 hours of team practices, daily weight training and yoga). This led to chronic compartment syndrome in my legs which was greatly exacerbated by the consumption of sugar.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 24, 2012
at 07:48 AM

Did you experiment with it, or do you say that just because you ate more sweet things? I thought for a long while that my gout was caused by the candy I ate, but it was actually cutting out bread that solved it.

0
7f26676a7cf4d03c206a8f5bf10976d2

(10)

on March 24, 2012
at 06:39 PM

I agree, don't hate sugar, just don't do sugar...I'm 37, highly fit athlete, just coming off the high carb, high sugar wagon that I used to believe was needed to fuel my activities. How wrong I was! Now I'm addicted to the stuff battling with glucose intolerance and am finding it extremely difficult to quit. (I'm by no means fat, but don't want to end up diabetic, having cancer, or any number of other nasty diseases sugar is responsible for.) Do read Mark Sisson, he has well researched science to back his theories up.

0
3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

on October 27, 2011
at 02:40 AM

The issue is fructose from added, exogenous sugar, not so much endogenous sugar from fruits or other whole foods. The fiber and the soury tastes of most fruits are built-in inhibitors that stop you from eating too much or screwing up your liver. This is why it's rare for anyone to become diabetic by eating too much fruit; endogenous sugar isn't likely to screw up your metabolism. If you're juicing, though, that's another story.

Those who claim sugar isn't harmful do not understand the (i) addictive nature of sugar, and (ii) the predatory nature of sugar in your palette, crowding out all other taste buds. Products enhanced by a combination of excess sugar and salt are "hyperpalatable": the best examples are Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, Doritos, Frito Lay, and Pop Tarts.

Add the addictiveness, hyperpalability, and the fructose component. Then add the high- glycemic nature of sugar, especially exogenous sugar, when combined with other high-glycemic items.

If you're not easily addicted and if you're hyperactive, is sugar ok? Dr. Lustig did say that if you're Michael Phelps, you can eat anything you want; you can eat as many Snicker bars as you can fit in your 6,000 calorie diet. He's not worried about athletes drinking Gatorades. He's worried about the fat kids that are impressionable, easily addictive, and inactive drinking Gatorades. Unfortunately, that's most of us.

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 27, 2011
at 01:33 AM

The Bitter Truth.

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 26, 2011
at 09:11 PM

Because it makes WORMS AGE FASTER! ... and worms are our friends.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 26, 2011
at 09:15 PM

And here is irrelevant part about its effect on humans: http://www.sugarisadrug.com/78-ways-sugar-ruins-health.html

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 28, 2011
at 02:06 PM

Maybe if they ate some orange juice they would have lived longer. :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 26, 2011
at 09:16 PM

j/k, sugar is awesome :P

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on October 28, 2011
at 02:06 PM

Glucose specifically. I've seen another paper were glucose caused oxidative stress: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/6/1406.short

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 28, 2011
at 02:28 PM

Looks like common suicidal strategy: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100118082117AAtLH1e

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 28, 2011
at 02:26 PM

Hey, you are right, orange juice would end fast dying for sure: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_worms_eat_orange_peels

0
421492f8989c426af583520a3d5fd136

on October 26, 2011
at 09:09 PM

Hate sugar because it messes with your system.

Hate sugar because it makes you crave even more sugar!

Hate sugar because it gives you a 'rush' and then you feel awful a short time later.

Hate sugar because it affects your moods, your performance and your general well being.

Give up sugar, cleanse your system.......... See how amazing you feel. Do it - You won't regret it!

D117467bf8e8472464ece2b81509606c

(2873)

on October 27, 2011
at 12:33 AM

It's a drug....

0
Medium avatar

on October 26, 2011
at 08:58 PM

Agree: Mark Sisson's "Definitive Guide to Sugar" and Lustig's "Sugar: The Bitter Truth." Go Google "health benefits of sugar" and enjoy a good laugh.

For what it's worth, I try to make a point not to "hate" food, including food I emphatically choose not to consume.

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 09, 2012
at 01:07 PM

I had a laugh when watching Lustig. Besides points that can be made against his ideas, see for example a link in your link to Mark Sisson, the guy seems overconfident, really didn't enjoy his presentation style.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!