1

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Sugar - the threshold, and body fat (Edited)

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 13, 2011 at 6:32 PM

I'm trying to establish a threshold for consumption of sugar. This is mainly geared at fat loss as I'm currently attempting to break through into single digit bf%. Many people on here agree that avoiding sugar leads to weight loss, (I understand individual results vary) but what should this target be? Would it be 0? say 25 g? Would this be higher on re-feed days if that was the method I was using to strip the bf? I've heard mercola say no fructose PWO as it affects GH (i think) but Martin over at leangains consumes a lot of fruit while maintaing very low bf%. Also, does it matter what type of sugar? i.e. sugar in Organic cottage cheese, or raw dairy? Should I avoid these, or not worry?

Sorry, for the long post, but I've been stuck at this point for 2-3 months. I'm 5'7 and weigh 158-161 on average. Remaining body fat is almost completely in lower back region with a small amount around the belly button.

Edit: I think I worded this wrong. At what point does sugar halt weight loss? For instance, If I consume 4 squares of Lindt 90% (3g sugar), or say a Tanka bar (6g sugar) am I shooting myself in the foot for venturing into weight loss / single digit body fat % range?

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on January 18, 2011
at 02:02 AM

During BF loss I try to avoid lactose, fructose and nuts. They are commonly associated with weight loss stalls. After weight loss, see whether they make you feel good an decide whether to reincorporate then

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 17, 2011
at 09:20 PM

Two kinds I use, Horizon Organic and Humbolt Creamery. Both are organic, with the latter also being pastured. Continuing to think about my original question; I think I am wondering if the amount of carb consumed per day is 50g or less, does it matter if it is glucose, fructose, lactose etc.. for optimal weight loss, more specifically bf loss

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on January 15, 2011
at 10:01 PM

Some of that sugar is lactose, depending on the brand, it could be added sugar(bleh), read the ingredients. My caution with cottage cheese is same as other dairy, A1 vs A2 Casein and then how you personally react to milk. Elimination testing is easiest. It's very n=1. That being said, I'm ok with whole natural, no added ingredient cottage cheese personally. It's part of a 10% IMO . I'd rather eat steak.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 09:09 PM

@Stephen, what about cottage cheese for re-feed days. One tub is 16g carb all sugar, but I think its glucose only correct? If that was all the carb I had, the rest was fat and protein, is that still a good day?

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 07:27 AM

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/01/body-fat-setpoint-part-iv-changing.html

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 06:57 AM

Protocol* sorry

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 06:57 AM

@Ben, that is the same protocaol for my PWO meal

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on January 15, 2011
at 02:10 AM

Hey dex, Washongton is a marathoner, or at least a runner, I thought. Very far from highly glycolytic activity like heavy load lifting. I was VLC and starting on SStrength. I didn't stall out but was just curious about how starch might affect things so started doing sweet potato PWO. I love it. I feel stronger and don't ever feel like I'm anywhere near hitting a wall this way. I was a 9 month long fat-burnng VLC machine too but I wasn't moving the poundages that I am now. What's your experience with VLC and or zero carb regarding lifting? Cheers.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 15, 2011
at 02:06 AM

o/* (That's me and my magic wand) I googled that and can't find it.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on January 15, 2011
at 02:06 AM

@alan, I'm interested in your response to Todd, too. I do sweet potato and lean meat PWO. Rest of the day I'm pretty LC with high fat and high protein. In the PWO I go low to no fat with the starch and protein so as not to slow any digestion of the carb and protein.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 01:43 AM

Lol, the dairy fairy! ha. I will.. just finished re-reading Stephen Guyante's BF setpoint series. Gonna work on a battle plan this weekend.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 15, 2011
at 01:37 AM

Yes, please stick to a plan! I would go with Stephen's typical protocol of training fasted (if you can), carbs after workout (either lifting heavy or HIIT 3 days a week), keeping them around 50 on non workout days and under 100 on workout days. No booze for just one month. Do this and I bet you'll get results. I'll even let you keep the dairy, if you like it. ;)

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 12:58 AM

Thanks Dexter, I will check that blog out.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 12:55 AM

I have abs, not worried about losing them. Its reall bizarre, I look shredded from the front (some days I even have veins in my abs present), and like a fat kid from behind.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 12:53 AM

I dont really eat fruit. My carbs sources are from Sweet potato, white potato, veggies, and occasional red wine and dark chocolate. I dont avoid dairy (cottage cheese, raw milk, raw cream) but I also dont have it daily. I lift heavy 3 times a week, play soccer 3 times, and that's about it. Casual 20-30 minute walks a few times a week after work. Always train fasted.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 12:50 AM

No, I don't think so. I always read new stuff and think "maybe that's what Im missing" Time to develop a plan and stick to it. I just figured with fairly strict paleo I would eventually reach my goal, and the tweaks would just accelerate. Maybe not?

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 15, 2011
at 12:05 AM

Are you giving each change enough time to take affect? You really need to only change one variable at a time and keep it steady for at least 4 weeks before you determine it's not working.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 14, 2011
at 11:53 PM

Thanks. I guess Im just really trying to fine tune. I cannot lose my back fat (lower region). Switching to Paleo, I became rather shredded in only a few months time. Except in my back. Been at it almost a year now. No change whatsoever. Trying to master the self-doubt. Been trying refeeds, IF, more exercise, less exercise... ugh.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 14, 2011
at 06:21 PM

Basically following leangaines type protocol. What is your typical PWO meal? Do you consume carbohydrate at all on training days?

5de2fffda92c0bf2be7ede10cad55546

(1781)

on January 14, 2011
at 02:16 PM

@Todd, why do you eat sweet potato PWO? Any insulin produced will immediately halt growth hormone and testosterone production just when you need it the most. Counter productive in my opinion. Protein and fat PWO for me..

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 13, 2011
at 06:40 PM

On non-refeed days or rest days, I have below 50g carbs, often less than 25g, and on Heavy lifting days I eat 1 medium to large russet or sweet potato PWO. Once in a while a handfull of berries.

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4 Answers

3
06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on January 15, 2011
at 12:32 AM

Just realize that all carbohydrates are nothing more than glucose molecules bonded together to look like carbs. When those carbs hit the gut, they are changed directly to sugars that spike your blood glucose. Insulin rushes in to control the BG and any of the energy not used immediately is stored in the fat cells of your body.
Eating carbs has the same effect on the body as consuming sugar. So don't consume sugar. Yes, you are sabotaging your progress with any sugar or carbs.

To not store the energy in the cells of your body as fat...thus reduce your BF%...you have to fuel yourself with meat and fat. Butter, Palm Oil, Coconut oil, eggs, bacon, beef steak, lamb, chicken, the fattiest you can get, etc. The protein you get from the animal products is enough to sustain you. The problem becomes how to not run out of energy on zero carb...just eat more fat. Coconut oil has 120 cals per tablespoon.

See this previous question about running out of energy late in the day: http://paleohacks.com/questions/18974/why-am-i-hitting-a-massive-wall-in-the-afternoon-evening-after-dropping-sugar-dai#axzz1B3imtn4b

Zero carb eating while on a conditioning/muscle building program can be done. Carb loading is not necessary once you become a fat burning machine.

I like Charles Washington's blog http://blog.zeroinginonhealth.com/ He is an athlete who practices strict zero carb and performs very well. Look around his blog. He has been writing since 2008.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 12:58 AM

Thanks Dexter, I will check that blog out.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on January 15, 2011
at 02:10 AM

Hey dex, Washongton is a marathoner, or at least a runner, I thought. Very far from highly glycolytic activity like heavy load lifting. I was VLC and starting on SStrength. I didn't stall out but was just curious about how starch might affect things so started doing sweet potato PWO. I love it. I feel stronger and don't ever feel like I'm anywhere near hitting a wall this way. I was a 9 month long fat-burnng VLC machine too but I wasn't moving the poundages that I am now. What's your experience with VLC and or zero carb regarding lifting? Cheers.

2
7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

on January 14, 2011
at 11:47 PM

There is no set point of sugar or carbs for fat loss. Everyone's body is slightly different. I lost over 100lbs and I was eating 150/200 grams of carbs and whatever sugar I wanted. I dropped body fat and built muscle, but I had a lot to lose.

To try and answer your specific questions...

Many people on here agree that avoiding sugar leads to weight loss, (I understand individual results vary) but what should this target be? Would it be 0? say 25 g?

I would go by carbs rather than sugar, because that is what I am used to counting. I personally am in the 75/100 gram per day range. If I were working on fat loss I would drop them to under 50 grams.

Would this be higher on re-feed days if that was the method I was using to strip the bf?

When working on dropping body fat, I wouldn't have many refeed days, maybe one a week. On that day I would raise the carbs to 100 grams.

I've heard mercola say no fructose PWO as it affects GH (i think) but Martin over at leangains consumes a lot of fruit while maintaing very low bf%.

I think avoiding fructose while leaning out is more common. Martin is already extremely lean. It is easier to add things back in once your where you want to be.

Also, does it matter what type of sugar? i.e. sugar in Organic cottage cheese, or raw dairy? Should I avoid these, or not worry?

I would avoid dairy while working on leaning out. The type of sugar does matter. For leaning out preferred carbs/sugar are usually vegetables and sweet potatoes/yams.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 15, 2011
at 12:05 AM

Are you giving each change enough time to take affect? You really need to only change one variable at a time and keep it steady for at least 4 weeks before you determine it's not working.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 14, 2011
at 11:53 PM

Thanks. I guess Im just really trying to fine tune. I cannot lose my back fat (lower region). Switching to Paleo, I became rather shredded in only a few months time. Except in my back. Been at it almost a year now. No change whatsoever. Trying to master the self-doubt. Been trying refeeds, IF, more exercise, less exercise... ugh.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 15, 2011
at 02:06 AM

o/* (That's me and my magic wand) I googled that and can't find it.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 15, 2011
at 01:37 AM

Yes, please stick to a plan! I would go with Stephen's typical protocol of training fasted (if you can), carbs after workout (either lifting heavy or HIIT 3 days a week), keeping them around 50 on non workout days and under 100 on workout days. No booze for just one month. Do this and I bet you'll get results. I'll even let you keep the dairy, if you like it. ;)

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 07:27 AM

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/01/body-fat-setpoint-part-iv-changing.html

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 12:50 AM

No, I don't think so. I always read new stuff and think "maybe that's what Im missing" Time to develop a plan and stick to it. I just figured with fairly strict paleo I would eventually reach my goal, and the tweaks would just accelerate. Maybe not?

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 01:43 AM

Lol, the dairy fairy! ha. I will.. just finished re-reading Stephen Guyante's BF setpoint series. Gonna work on a battle plan this weekend.

1
4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

on January 14, 2011
at 11:50 PM

you wont lose your abs under 100g of glucose if you are at all active. On heavy days, I sometimes exceed that amount.

I would avoid the fructose for optimal body weight if you want to stay CUT. Berries are very low fructose fruits, I eat them a couple times a week with no adverse effect.

I have had a few fructose binges that have made me both feel bad and require a cut period to recover from bloating hiding my abs.

my rule for sugar, glucose or otherwise, is Exercise BEFORE for optimal nutrient partitioning.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 12:55 AM

I have abs, not worried about losing them. Its reall bizarre, I look shredded from the front (some days I even have veins in my abs present), and like a fat kid from behind.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 09:09 PM

@Stephen, what about cottage cheese for re-feed days. One tub is 16g carb all sugar, but I think its glucose only correct? If that was all the carb I had, the rest was fat and protein, is that still a good day?

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 15, 2011
at 12:53 AM

I dont really eat fruit. My carbs sources are from Sweet potato, white potato, veggies, and occasional red wine and dark chocolate. I dont avoid dairy (cottage cheese, raw milk, raw cream) but I also dont have it daily. I lift heavy 3 times a week, play soccer 3 times, and that's about it. Casual 20-30 minute walks a few times a week after work. Always train fasted.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on January 18, 2011
at 02:02 AM

During BF loss I try to avoid lactose, fructose and nuts. They are commonly associated with weight loss stalls. After weight loss, see whether they make you feel good an decide whether to reincorporate then

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on January 15, 2011
at 10:01 PM

Some of that sugar is lactose, depending on the brand, it could be added sugar(bleh), read the ingredients. My caution with cottage cheese is same as other dairy, A1 vs A2 Casein and then how you personally react to milk. Elimination testing is easiest. It's very n=1. That being said, I'm ok with whole natural, no added ingredient cottage cheese personally. It's part of a 10% IMO . I'd rather eat steak.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 17, 2011
at 09:20 PM

Two kinds I use, Horizon Organic and Humbolt Creamery. Both are organic, with the latter also being pastured. Continuing to think about my original question; I think I am wondering if the amount of carb consumed per day is 50g or less, does it matter if it is glucose, fructose, lactose etc.. for optimal weight loss, more specifically bf loss

0
Medium avatar

on January 13, 2011
at 06:36 PM

I think successful weight loss is dependent upon the extent to which an individual can first cut carbs down, and then convert those remaining carbs from sugars to starches.

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