anyone link me to more information about the production of Advanced Glycation End Products when PUFA(PolyUnsaturated Fats:Omega 6 and even Omega 3) are consumed in conjunction with Sugar/Carbs?
If this is accurate, could explain a significant # of Paleo-stalls. As well as a SIZABLE reason why Paleo-Candy Cigarettes, would be wholly dangerous not just not advised.
Almond Flour is high in PUFA, add some sugar(even honey) = instant inflammation bomb?
Edit: extra credit are there PuFA foods that also contain sugars in nature? I can't think of any.
asked byStephen_Aegis (22923)
Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!
on March 15, 2011
at 07:13 PM
In The Perfect Health Diet, The Jaminets advise against consuming fruit with PUFA. On page 106 "...fructose should not be eaten with PUFA. We therefore recommend eating fruits and berries between meals or with foods that contain little PUFA, such as yogurt or cream." On page 58 "...give sugar, wheat or alcohol in combination with either omega-6 or omega-3 PUFA, and mice develop fatty liver and metabolic syndrome." From my understanding of their diet (I have only read the book once so far) they seem so concerned about it to recommend limiting low fructose fruits to only be consumed on an empty stomach, combined only with saturated fats (cream or coconut) and even go so far as to confine fructose to the first meal of the day.
The studies they use to make their case are listed in the footnotes on pages 147-152
If you don't have access to that book here are a few that might contain the information you are searching for:
Edit: added link so that it's not lost in comments: http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2008/07/age-rage-and-ale-ale-of-ldl.html
on March 27, 2011
at 01:31 AM
I'm not well read in the AGEs department so I can't comment on that. But I think there are several things that need to be considered. It's my understanding the the process of making HFCS is a chemical process involving a series of steps using alpha-amylase, glucoamylase, xylose isomerase all which are enzymes hence the "ase".
All the studies I've seen regarding fructose and heavily quoted by the paleo clan cite papers done with HFCS. I think we can agree quite consistently that HFCS is detrimental to your health.
But here's were I'm coming from (bare w/ me): If we look at the process of full hydrogenation we are essentially taking a carbon chain and completely saturating it with hydrogen and so it appears chemically like a long chain fatty acid. This is quite different from partial hydrogenation i.e. industrial trans fats. In fact in rat studies that use fully hydrogenated peanut oil the "manufactured" oil behaves just as we would expect natural saturated fat to work i.e. mitochondrial respiration is restored. However one thing that wasn't taken into account and correct me if I'm wrong but hydrogenation the process itself generates a lot of free radicals, in other words there are some impurities generated as by products of the chemical process, that wouldn't be in natural SF, so my line of thinking is that drinking peanut oil wouldn't be sustainable in the long run even with the initial benefits noted in the study.
Wouldn't it stand to reason that HFCSs could very well be detrimental to health because of manufacturing impurities rather than the fructose itself? And that it's the particular combination of crap in HFCS that makes the poison instead of the individual components?
In my point of view I can say for sure that when I add PUFA into my diet via vegetables along side my ice cream and oranges and various other fruits I feel a distinct change for the worse. But when I leave all but the sweet potatoes out, I can eat all the saturated fats, fruits and sugar I want and can still see the veins on my abs. Bring the vegetables in and like clockwork I start retaining water and gaining weight and can feel my blood sugar elevate. But I can drink a cup of sugared tea and a half a liter of vanilla ice cream and remain normal. In fact I'm so intrigued by this I'm going to order a blood glucose tester and test my levels at different intervals.
So I think PUFA/sugar combination is bad, but just like hydrogenation and the process of turning corn starch into HFCS, I think there is more to it than just the individual components. I think in the end we'll find that fruit or sugar is rather harmless and that it's the rancid plant fat that causes the disruption of thyroid hormones and inhibits your body from being able to do it's job with those things. I think though that eliminating certain groups of food because of an association with another group is irrational, it's like saying your an asshole because you have a friend who did an asshole thing i.e. guilt by association, while there is an association and this brings into question your own reputation I don't think this justifies you as an asshole until you yourself do an asshole thing. If that were the case then we couldn't eat anything because we all know a least one person who is an asshole.
Hope that makes sense.
on March 15, 2011
at 04:07 PM
Goldin A, Beckman JA, Schmidt AM, Creager MA (2006). "Advanced glycation end products: sparking the development of diabetic vascular injury". Circulation 114 (6): 597???605. doi:106.621854. PMID 16894049
on March 17, 2011
at 03:36 AM
The formation of AGES and it's effects on us have always fascinated me, and I feel they might be a missing piece of the puzzle.
on March 15, 2011
at 04:15 PM
I would be very interested in this IF there is solid evidence shown that supports it. I've seen other threads here discuss the potential dangers of combining foods and even macronutrient groups. Mostly it was agreed that combining things doesn't make a difference.
However, in this case, it's looking at a specific sub macronutrient (pufa) and sugar (not just carbs, like a starchy meal). The main reason I would be interested is because I often eat a slight variation of a certain treat that you handpicked for your question. I like to eat a spoonful of raw sprouted almond butter with a bit of raw honey on there.
And I wouldn't necessarily agree that almonds are 'high' in PUFA, more like 'they contain some'. But they have even more MUFA. Also, I wonder if unheated PUFA would not cause any problems, yet maybe combining a seed oil with sugar might. Because if someone did a study that uses veggie oils and HFCS and concludes that eating PUFA and sugar is an inflammation bomb, I'm callin foul on that.