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Please hack my strange reaction with caffeine

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 05, 2012 at 11:50 AM

I have always reacted very strongly to caffeine and any stimulant. One shot/cup and I'm wired all day.

I've noticed that while on keto/VLC days, the negative effects are much worse. Also, i must have it before training and while still fasting; on a rest day or after my first meal, the negative effects are bad.

IVe also noticed that caffeine while on the fast is tolerated well, but with just one dose during fasting, later, after I eat and break my fast, I get significantly hungrier, uncomfortably so, than with no caffeine that day. Actually, I feel like I did before paleo, almost a low bloodsugar metabolic disruption, like hormonal hunger, not real hunger. It really disrupts something. And if I drink caffeine when not in a faster state, bad effects result.

That being said, I've been using coffee and green tea to help me burn that last bit of fat the last month or so. Im doing leangains, ZC rest days, lean meat and tubers wo days. I drink coffee while still on my fast at 9-10am, lift heavy at 10:30/11:00-11:30/12:00, and eat my lean meat and carbs promptly after workout at 12:00. My next meal is at 19:00/20:00.

I've lately stretched out the time after my fasted workouts a few times and eaten my first meal one to two hours later, to extend the fat burning. With the fast, the caffeine feels fine. But every time I've done this with caffeine pre workout and delayed feeding post workout, about 2-3hrs after that fast breaking meal I crash really hard, dangerously so. I get really light headed, weak, and I actually shake! Normally without caffeine in my system I am easily able to go 6-8hrs between fast breaking meal and dinner. When this crash happens I've taken about 1-200 cal of coconut milk and some raw cocoa. That straightens me out after about 30min and carries me until dinner.

Even if I eat my meal RIGHT after training, with pre workout caffeine, I still offen crash hunger wise (just not the scary dizzy kind mentioned above) between meals during my feeding window. But EVERY time I extend the fast 1-2hrs after the workout, the scary crash happens. With no caffeine, no problems.

Of course everyone is gonna say just cut out the coffee. Well, A i like it and look forward to it, B I am trying to use caffeines known ability to burn fat, and C I wan to know what is happening in my body.

All other things are equal. I eat the same amounts of the same foods with the same calories and macros at the same times. I'm meticulous.

Any ideas? Is this disrupting insulin sensitivity in me? The non-Insulin dependent glucose uptake?

Other people feel LESS hunger with caffeine! I fast and go low cal with MUCH more ease WITHOUT caffeine! This is strange and unusual and I want to know why I'm so weird!

Medium avatar

(2432)

on October 06, 2012
at 04:44 AM

I've never been interested in decaf....or gluten free bread, or fat free cheese, or non-alcoholic beer....give me the authentic or I'll just do something else.

Medium avatar

(2432)

on October 06, 2012
at 04:34 AM

First paragraph me too. As for the butter/oil in the coffee, that puts more fatty acids in your blood stream, making your fat cells less likey to dump body fat into the blood stream....defeating the body fat burning effect of caffeine and the point I drink coffee (besides the fact a properly made French press is heavenly). I too find I can extend the fast much easier on caffeine....before I break the fast that is. That's why I've been stretching the fast out after my workout and running into trouble with crashing hard 2-3hrs after my fast breaking meal!

Medium avatar

(2432)

on October 06, 2012
at 04:29 AM

I definitely have to drink it before noon or I won't have time to metabolize it before bed. But get no more jittery whether I drink it on a fast or after a meal. My issue is that it causes a serious blood sugar crash about 5-6hrs after I drink it where I get ravenously, deeply hungry.

Medium avatar

(2432)

on October 06, 2012
at 02:48 AM

A) I cant do fake anything; give me real coffee or I don't want it B) it's not the thermogenesis calories I'm after, it's the fact that studies show that caffeine mobilizes stored bodyfat into the bloodstream to be burned, so it helps lean folks get leaner; me C) fair point. It really suppresses my hungry while still fasting, but after I eat, I end up eating MORE. So, caffeine is working for me to burn more fat, and for the enjoyment, but is hurting my hunger signals later in the day.

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4 Answers

2
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on October 05, 2012
at 05:55 PM

So I am just going to say it -- Cut the coffee.

A) I like it too, but if I drink it late I can't sleep. So I switched to decaf -- there's some really good decaf versions out there.

B) I did a quick literature search. Every source that I can find that actually uses citations all looks at one study on coffee. The study suggests that caffeine may provide a spike in thermogenesis -- to the tune of 5-10 calories a cup. But that people who drink caffeine are more active than those who don't. i.e. There is a correlation but there is NO CAUSATION. To make yourself feel like crap for 5-10 calories is ridiculus.

C) Caffeine is a stimulant, there is no reason it wouldn't stimulate your appetite. Every study that looked into caffeine as a appetite suppression (that I have read) suggests that it works as a suppressant for about an hour. After that people eat more. The fact that you are not consuming as many carbs as SAD, in addition to consuming it while fasted would lead to you having a greater response.

We are all different, some people feel drunk after two beers, some it takes 6. Some people get tired when they are drunk, some get energy -- we are all different. It's about learning what works for you and going for it.

Medium avatar

(2432)

on October 06, 2012
at 02:48 AM

A) I cant do fake anything; give me real coffee or I don't want it B) it's not the thermogenesis calories I'm after, it's the fact that studies show that caffeine mobilizes stored bodyfat into the bloodstream to be burned, so it helps lean folks get leaner; me C) fair point. It really suppresses my hungry while still fasting, but after I eat, I end up eating MORE. So, caffeine is working for me to burn more fat, and for the enjoyment, but is hurting my hunger signals later in the day.

1
5f2b384345050356bfd4fda5f2f169f3

(55)

on October 05, 2012
at 06:17 PM

I have found that I'm much more sensitive to cafeine and alcohol since going paleo. I gave up coffee for a while and was very sad, ha.

I too have been playing around with the lean gains style IF and am loving it.

My one tweak has been to do coffee + fat (butter and coconut oil usually).

This seems to slow down the coffee a bit, easier on the tummy and nerves for me.

Also, I can extend my fast much longer much easier. I consider the 300 or so fat calories that I'm taking on to be worth it bc a) I'm still experiencing the full benefit a no protein window/autophagy b) no insulin spike c) less hunger d) more stable energy e) less stressed close to ending the fast.

Just my take.

Also, interesting that the decaf doesn't help. The bulletproof coffee guy would be all over that, saying its all mold and toxins in the coffee etc... meh, maybe, ha.

Good luck!

Cheers!

Medium avatar

(2432)

on October 06, 2012
at 04:34 AM

First paragraph me too. As for the butter/oil in the coffee, that puts more fatty acids in your blood stream, making your fat cells less likey to dump body fat into the blood stream....defeating the body fat burning effect of caffeine and the point I drink coffee (besides the fact a properly made French press is heavenly). I too find I can extend the fast much easier on caffeine....before I break the fast that is. That's why I've been stretching the fast out after my workout and running into trouble with crashing hard 2-3hrs after my fast breaking meal!

Medium avatar

(2432)

on October 06, 2012
at 04:44 AM

I've never been interested in decaf....or gluten free bread, or fat free cheese, or non-alcoholic beer....give me the authentic or I'll just do something else.

1
235b077872243d4ee5796c6ace3c0970

on October 05, 2012
at 06:02 PM

Coffee is just way too much for my body to handle. I switched over to americanos (espresso with hot water), but still absolutely must eat something at LEAST 30 minutes before drinking, otherwise I get incredibly anxious, jittery, dizzy, and numb. My heart rate will still be pretty normal, but if/when I'm not careful with consumption timing, I basically feel completely fucked for the entire day.

Medium avatar

(2432)

on October 06, 2012
at 04:29 AM

I definitely have to drink it before noon or I won't have time to metabolize it before bed. But get no more jittery whether I drink it on a fast or after a meal. My issue is that it causes a serious blood sugar crash about 5-6hrs after I drink it where I get ravenously, deeply hungry.

0
75e8ceee00e2459860ea38220a3a8118

on October 05, 2012
at 03:56 PM

Interesting. I'm still fine with caffeinated coffee, but have noticed that I feel really crappy after the one cup of decaf coffee I was having each day since going (mostly) paleo. Thought it was a coincidence but it kept happening. Finally dumped it today.

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