2

votes

Have you seen the sweet truth?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 15, 2011 at 5:48 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gR3N4V-KLs

My brother told me about this video and said its got some great info. It's basically a rebuttal of Robert Lustigs video the bitter truth from Mark Kern, a professor in the department of exercise and nutritional sciences at San Diego State University. I haven't seen it yet but he gave me the basic 411.

So what do you think? does this video make you rethink the fructose issue?

154d799847153f5589f99496a9bdbb71

(992)

on August 15, 2011
at 10:08 PM

I should point out that the title of the talk clearly seems like a response to Lustig's talk, yet he obviously didn't dispute Lustig's argument. It's as if he had just heard the title and not watched it. He never mentions Lustig directly, so who the hell knows.

154d799847153f5589f99496a9bdbb71

(992)

on August 15, 2011
at 09:24 PM

Yea, his general understanding of nutrition wasn't blowing me away. Fruit is better than cookies? You don't say!

B2f2a025c9901b31af3853d1336d5307

(183)

on August 15, 2011
at 08:54 PM

Yes, the honey talk, and then the dried plumb talk.. and we should take our recommendations on sugar intake by following AHA guidelines... ok well all of this makes sense considering his funding lol: American heart association California dried plumb National honey board California raisin marketing board

Fbfeabf01eb1ee04cca22d44edc1275e

(10)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:46 PM

@cliff - SAD contains massive amounts of fructose, we did not evolve to deal with that. Pick up any biochem text book the definition of a substance that is metabolized exclusively by the liver (like fructose) is a toxin, the pathways are almost identical to those used for alcohol. Excessive fructose contributes to fatty-liver disease.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:13 PM

If you're obese and diabetic you can't be concerned enough. It's worth hitting people with a bat to get them to wake up. I'm not sure that Lustig is getting through to them though. On the other hand if you're healthy it's not that big a deal.

154d799847153f5589f99496a9bdbb71

(992)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:05 PM

It's a NAD in the context of high does and without the corresponding level of exercise. Lustig is clear about that. As he says often, gatorade is fine for athletes, but it's not the athletes drinking gatorade... it's the fat kids.

154d799847153f5589f99496a9bdbb71

(992)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:05 PM

It's a NAD in the context of high does and without the corresponding level of exercise. Lustig is clear about that. As he says often, gatorade is fine for athletes, but it's not the athelets drinking gatorade... it's the fat kids.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:02 PM

No one said massive amounts of fructose. I didn't know biochemistry proved fructose is a toxin, Is there literature on this?

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 15, 2011
at 06:25 PM

:it doesn't change the fact that fructose is a NAD and should be avoided outside of fruit." This isn't a fact, what about honey? Should we limit fruit

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3 Answers

6
154d799847153f5589f99496a9bdbb71

on August 15, 2011
at 08:38 PM

I just watched it. This is not a rebuttal of Lustig. If Kern is attemping to rebut Lustig, he has failed pretty hard. He agrees with Lustig on several major points:

  • Fructose is harmful at high levels
  • Sucrose and HFCS are basically the same metabolically
  • There are not major differences between refined and unrefined sugars

Remember, Lustig has two major conditions on which fructose can be a toxin:

  • A large dose. He calls it a dose-dependent liver toxin, which it clearly is. I think Lustig's estimate is > 50g/day (Kern did not seem to disagree with this sentiment).
  • The person consuming it is not an endurance athlete who can utilize fructose before it overwhelms the liver.

Let me summarize the talk. Kern repeats a strawman over and over (fructose is a poison). Then he shows a whole bunch showing that fructose is a poison at high levels. Umm... ok. Then the really hilarious part is he shows studies at near common levels of consumption and there are STILL negative effects, which he tries to hand wave.

Finally, he shows that if you feed people the same amount of fructose they typically eat, then their markers of health don't change. Huh? What else would you expect?

If you're looking for a reason to actually watch the video, near the end there is an intriguing part about the difference between honey and sucrose.

154d799847153f5589f99496a9bdbb71

(992)

on August 15, 2011
at 09:24 PM

Yea, his general understanding of nutrition wasn't blowing me away. Fruit is better than cookies? You don't say!

154d799847153f5589f99496a9bdbb71

(992)

on August 15, 2011
at 10:08 PM

I should point out that the title of the talk clearly seems like a response to Lustig's talk, yet he obviously didn't dispute Lustig's argument. It's as if he had just heard the title and not watched it. He never mentions Lustig directly, so who the hell knows.

B2f2a025c9901b31af3853d1336d5307

(183)

on August 15, 2011
at 08:54 PM

Yes, the honey talk, and then the dried plumb talk.. and we should take our recommendations on sugar intake by following AHA guidelines... ok well all of this makes sense considering his funding lol: American heart association California dried plumb National honey board California raisin marketing board

3
66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on August 15, 2011
at 06:30 PM

Yes i have watched it and like Dave S I agree with what Lustig says, one can't argue with biochemistry, the body treats toxins in certain ways, fructose in high concentrations and over long periods of time does damage. We did not evolve having the availability to the high concentrations of fructose we do now, our bodies do the best they can. The fructose we consume today is far removed from any natural context. Mega doses of almost any substance can lead to harmful effects.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:02 PM

No one said massive amounts of fructose. I didn't know biochemistry proved fructose is a toxin, Is there literature on this?

Fbfeabf01eb1ee04cca22d44edc1275e

(10)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:46 PM

@cliff - SAD contains massive amounts of fructose, we did not evolve to deal with that. Pick up any biochem text book the definition of a substance that is metabolized exclusively by the liver (like fructose) is a toxin, the pathways are almost identical to those used for alcohol. Excessive fructose contributes to fatty-liver disease.

0
A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on August 15, 2011
at 06:20 PM

Yes, I have. Lustig may have stretched the truth here and there, but it doesn't change the fact that fructose is a NAD and should be avoided outside of fruit.

154d799847153f5589f99496a9bdbb71

(992)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:05 PM

It's a NAD in the context of high does and without the corresponding level of exercise. Lustig is clear about that. As he says often, gatorade is fine for athletes, but it's not the athelets drinking gatorade... it's the fat kids.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:13 PM

If you're obese and diabetic you can't be concerned enough. It's worth hitting people with a bat to get them to wake up. I'm not sure that Lustig is getting through to them though. On the other hand if you're healthy it's not that big a deal.

154d799847153f5589f99496a9bdbb71

(992)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:05 PM

It's a NAD in the context of high does and without the corresponding level of exercise. Lustig is clear about that. As he says often, gatorade is fine for athletes, but it's not the athletes drinking gatorade... it's the fat kids.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 15, 2011
at 06:25 PM

:it doesn't change the fact that fructose is a NAD and should be avoided outside of fruit." This isn't a fact, what about honey? Should we limit fruit

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