0

votes

Ok this is what I want...... hack it

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created July 04, 2013 at 12:17 AM

I really would like to avoid the first binge. I want to happily take part in the following... "walking" "avoidance" "distractions" "water" "vegetables" "baths" "various body care" "some sucrose alternative" or "read a book" if any of these things would actually distract me from a binge. I have a lifetime of these distraction techniques that do not work.

I want to avoid this first bite because I know it will lead to eventual more slipping and weight gain. I've been through this before. I have already upped my fat and protein I am not eating pre packaged crap. I am eating grass fed beef and vegetables, berries, and fat. I already get enough calories. I am happy with my shape, weight, and size.
I just do not want that slippery slope that caused my regain to happen again.

I have already lost and regained 100 lbs 3 times. Paleo works. Please give me your best avoidance techniques to avoid the first binge or off paleo binge.

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on July 05, 2013
at 07:58 PM

I admit to it still being an obsessive, neurotic way of "using" a "food" to soothe myself - but it doesn't make me fat!

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on July 05, 2013
at 07:57 PM

@tmj - it is something I have to always be aware of, but it IS doable. The thing that helped me the most was relaxing my overall attitude about food. I needed other things in my life to be better than food - and once my personal relationships got stronger, my relationship to food began to normalize somewhat. But when I feel stressed, I need to crunch on something (crunchy food being my weakness). This might be silly, but you know what helps me ALOT? Ice. I crunch on ice when stressed. It is strangely soothing, and I'm not "bingeing". I guess that could be a tool! Duh! An icy coping mechanism.

Fd7b128cf714044a86d8bd822c7a8992

(4292)

on July 04, 2013
at 11:55 PM

OK, some links! -http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/two-takes-depression/201102/acceptance-and-commitment-therapy (very brief overview of what ACT is) -http://www.thehappinesstrap.com/ (go to the left side; under "free resources" you can read the first chapter of his book free online) -http://www.cedd.org.au/ACT/Flyer.pdf (from a center for eating disorders in Australia; it's a flyer for doctors about ACT, what is is, how it works specifically for EDs, etc. Written for doctors but very useful) And then there's always Wiki for basic background knowledge.

048dd52752c45129c1212bfffb37ca72

(3150)

on July 04, 2013
at 07:35 PM

I'd say that if you cannot get satiated enough with 60gr of protein on your breakfast then eat even more until you do... but I wouldn't want you to push to protein over-consumption... I personally can get satiated enough with 30-40gr if it has similar fat and veggies that are low cal but fill my stomach... if you cannot, then I wonder... do you binge because you crave at a hunger level or do you do it in response to stress? Stress binging is very common and difficult to avoid, that might need to be addressed with more relax, positive thinking, meditation, etc...

7a6529ea25b655132fe58d793f95547a

(2030)

on July 04, 2013
at 03:19 PM

Oh man, classic Arni clip!

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 03:11 PM

I was re-reading your original answer and yes this post was to get some tips (avoidance tech or any tech that work) to avoid the first binge because my history of re-gain is pretty dramatic and now that I've lost all the weight for a third time I really really don't want to slip up. Congrats on your 9 years! the longest I've been able to maintain a healthy weight was 2 years.

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 03:07 PM

I stopped drinking wine and now I head up to bed at 9pm no matter what and the lights go off at 10pm. Having a strict schedule has helped my sleeping tremendously. I do have to take a sleeping aide as well and I know it's not Paleo but I seriously start to feel ill after weeks/months of not sleeping. For the first time in my life I feel like I have the insomnia under control :)

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 03:03 PM

Yep I've lost all of the weight again after starting strict paleo in Nov. I stopped weighing on a scale but I'm wearing a size 6-8. My previous losses were doing low carb and VLC which seemed to stop working over the years. When I look at the big picture it's my failure at maintaining that causes the regain. It is it's own beast!

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:54 PM

I do think I have a sugar addict gene. I can easily lose weight (100 lbs after 2 pregnancies and close to that after a broken leg) however one slip up starts the slippery slope and I'm gaining again. I think black and white thinking contributes to this as well. Knowing that it takes me a good month of vlc to get into ketosis leads me to say, "oh what's one more day of cake gonna do?" ugh

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:51 PM

I am one of those people that gets binge-y or snack-y with a large breakfast even if I get 60 gms protien/fat. I try for mid morning or early lunch and hopefully get through until the evening. I do agree that the 60 gms is needed for a good "reset" if I've been eating refined sugar/carbs for a few months.

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:48 PM

I will check this out. TY!

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:48 PM

lol I do need to work out. A few years ago I fractured my femur and I pretty much just walk for exercise. I need to have hardware removed but I have no time or money to get it done. I found a crossfit gym in my town and I would love to go one time to get the weight lifting technique down.

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:38 PM

Yes please Maria ACT and CBT/DBT sound interesting. I will google these today. If you have any favorite links I'd love it if you could post them.

50a12c595436b7620224676a2ae4acb9

(128)

on July 04, 2013
at 01:29 PM

Gotcha, I tend to be the same way with sugar and refined carbs. It literally is like being under the influence, and I know once I'm in that "zone" it's difficult to not binge. Hot liquids like tea, coffee and water with lemon I've also found helpful. The first couple of days you really just have to muddle through to get back on track. Have you lost all the weight again? If not I would make that the goal, since when people are trying to loose weight they tend to be more focused and driven and there are a bunch of proven steps that work. Maintaining weight loss is it's own beast.

Fd7b128cf714044a86d8bd822c7a8992

(4292)

on July 04, 2013
at 01:25 PM

(2/2) to some if you think it sounds interesting.

Fd7b128cf714044a86d8bd822c7a8992

(4292)

on July 04, 2013
at 01:24 PM

(1/2) I agree that avoidance probably isn't very helpful. Have you looked into ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) and the related spectrum of psychological approaches (CBT/DBT/etc.) that start with the premise that "more successfully avoiding/ignoring the problem is not the answer"...the idea is that you have to learn to accept that you have the urge, and not get all panicked about it and try to make it "go away" but rather learn various strategies for confronting it. I don't know what your budget for therapy is like, but there are plenty of free online resources; I could try to point you

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:59 AM

It IS hard, @tmj - but it really CAN be done. Lots of us lose weight and then think we are "normal" - we can relax and eat like everybody else. Nope. I will always have to be vigilant. I will always have these fat cells that I grew while gaining weight - they aren't going anywhere. But I can keep them small by eating in the way that helped me lose in the first place. And moving around, and not freaking out. I hope that my success in losing weight is long-term - I am going to work hard to make it so, and I know you can too!

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:10 AM

Thanks! I agree with you that there is no easy answer with this. By first bite I mean the first bite of any sugar/refined carb that will set me off to weeks of carb binging and trying to get back on track. I've been there and done the re-gain and lose again.. if I could stop that first bite somehow.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:00 AM

I'm a terrible sleeper too. Ashwaganda tincture is the only thing that has ever actually made me want to go to bed earlier.

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 01:42 AM

Thanks! I actually employed this strategy for the first time last year May 2012. I have always been a terrible sleeper. Sleeping has been ok recently. I do agree with you completely

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 01:26 AM

thanks! sadly once I get started it is so hard to stop. As they say to losing is easy it's the maintaining that's hard.

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 12:45 AM

oh I know exactly what it is. Stress from work, career, children, lack of support from husband, ect........ I understand the reason WHY.... I have actually been through therapy. You know what they offer you? avoidance techniques. I already know those. I know the reasons why I want to binge, control issues, stress, helplessness. help me avoid by something more than simple avoidance tecniques.

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8 Answers

4
Fd7b128cf714044a86d8bd822c7a8992

(4292)

on July 04, 2013
at 12:31 AM

It might be helpful if you could tell us a bit about why you binge. Is it as an emotional coping mechanism for fear/stress/whatever? Food cravings? Boredom? Feeling deprived? You don't even know? What's going through your head leading up to/during the binge?

My generic advice, not knowing the above? Make it into some kind of game, where you track days you don't binge and promise yourself some kind of non-food reward if you hit ___ days. Surprisingly motivating and only costs 5 minutes of your time to set it up. You can just use a sticky note on the fridge to keep track.

Fd7b128cf714044a86d8bd822c7a8992

(4292)

on July 04, 2013
at 01:25 PM

(2/2) to some if you think it sounds interesting.

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 12:45 AM

oh I know exactly what it is. Stress from work, career, children, lack of support from husband, ect........ I understand the reason WHY.... I have actually been through therapy. You know what they offer you? avoidance techniques. I already know those. I know the reasons why I want to binge, control issues, stress, helplessness. help me avoid by something more than simple avoidance tecniques.

Fd7b128cf714044a86d8bd822c7a8992

(4292)

on July 04, 2013
at 01:24 PM

(1/2) I agree that avoidance probably isn't very helpful. Have you looked into ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) and the related spectrum of psychological approaches (CBT/DBT/etc.) that start with the premise that "more successfully avoiding/ignoring the problem is not the answer"...the idea is that you have to learn to accept that you have the urge, and not get all panicked about it and try to make it "go away" but rather learn various strategies for confronting it. I don't know what your budget for therapy is like, but there are plenty of free online resources; I could try to point you

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:38 PM

Yes please Maria ACT and CBT/DBT sound interesting. I will google these today. If you have any favorite links I'd love it if you could post them.

Fd7b128cf714044a86d8bd822c7a8992

(4292)

on July 04, 2013
at 11:55 PM

OK, some links! -http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/two-takes-depression/201102/acceptance-and-commitment-therapy (very brief overview of what ACT is) -http://www.thehappinesstrap.com/ (go to the left side; under "free resources" you can read the first chapter of his book free online) -http://www.cedd.org.au/ACT/Flyer.pdf (from a center for eating disorders in Australia; it's a flyer for doctors about ACT, what is is, how it works specifically for EDs, etc. Written for doctors but very useful) And then there's always Wiki for basic background knowledge.

3
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 04, 2013
at 01:33 AM

Earlier bedtime? Supposedly certain gut bugs and parasites are more active in the evening, and can set off a binge. If you go to sleep before they wake up (I notice a shift around 11pm, that notorious second wind, and deep cravings), unless you sleep eat you will have removed yourself from the situation.

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=964312

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 03:07 PM

I stopped drinking wine and now I head up to bed at 9pm no matter what and the lights go off at 10pm. Having a strict schedule has helped my sleeping tremendously. I do have to take a sleeping aide as well and I know it's not Paleo but I seriously start to feel ill after weeks/months of not sleeping. For the first time in my life I feel like I have the insomnia under control :)

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:00 AM

I'm a terrible sleeper too. Ashwaganda tincture is the only thing that has ever actually made me want to go to bed earlier.

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 01:42 AM

Thanks! I actually employed this strategy for the first time last year May 2012. I have always been a terrible sleeper. Sleeping has been ok recently. I do agree with you completely

3
618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on July 04, 2013
at 01:03 AM

Well, you ask for our avoidance techniques, yet you say in a comment above you want more than simple avoidance techniques ... hmmmm.

ok I'll play. I have a set of foods I can binge on. I allow myself these foods for stress eating situations. I know that I like them, and they do the trick for me, but they are intensely flavored, and I can't eat them forever. I know I am tend to binge at night, so I save up any stress eating impulses until the evening, and I'll evaluate and see if what I want is really food. If the answer is yes, I'll have a cup of tea or broth first, then I'll have what I want - for 10 minutes. Done.

One can understand the mechanism of bingeing and still do it because, essentially, one wants to indulge themselves and not be accountable. I try to indulge myself AND be accountable, and it works. It means you have to put the spoiled child inside you to bed, though - a binge is like a temper tantrum turned inward. Think it through, allow the behavior, be accountable for it, and don't indulge in the shame/guilt. Over time, it will diminish. There is no magic bullet - you have to find your answer for yourself, but allowing the behavior with some modifications is a good first step.

This helped me overcome almost 20 yrs of binge/purge. Happily binge free going on 9 years.

This is not a simple answer. You are not going to find a simple way around your behavior, especially if you have been through all the therapy and treatments you say you have. You have to do it like we do everything on PH - experiment, try it, if it doesn't work try something else, weigh the data, keep tweaking, and with enough work, you will be in a better place than before.

Good luck. Not gaining back weight is very very hard.

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 01:26 AM

thanks! sadly once I get started it is so hard to stop. As they say to losing is easy it's the maintaining that's hard.

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on July 05, 2013
at 07:57 PM

@tmj - it is something I have to always be aware of, but it IS doable. The thing that helped me the most was relaxing my overall attitude about food. I needed other things in my life to be better than food - and once my personal relationships got stronger, my relationship to food began to normalize somewhat. But when I feel stressed, I need to crunch on something (crunchy food being my weakness). This might be silly, but you know what helps me ALOT? Ice. I crunch on ice when stressed. It is strangely soothing, and I'm not "bingeing". I guess that could be a tool! Duh! An icy coping mechanism.

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:59 AM

It IS hard, @tmj - but it really CAN be done. Lots of us lose weight and then think we are "normal" - we can relax and eat like everybody else. Nope. I will always have to be vigilant. I will always have these fat cells that I grew while gaining weight - they aren't going anywhere. But I can keep them small by eating in the way that helped me lose in the first place. And moving around, and not freaking out. I hope that my success in losing weight is long-term - I am going to work hard to make it so, and I know you can too!

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on July 05, 2013
at 07:58 PM

I admit to it still being an obsessive, neurotic way of "using" a "food" to soothe myself - but it doesn't make me fat!

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 03:11 PM

I was re-reading your original answer and yes this post was to get some tips (avoidance tech or any tech that work) to avoid the first binge because my history of re-gain is pretty dramatic and now that I've lost all the weight for a third time I really really don't want to slip up. Congrats on your 9 years! the longest I've been able to maintain a healthy weight was 2 years.

2
C2450eb7fa11b37473599caf93b461ef

on July 04, 2013
at 12:13 PM

Take a look at the book The Diet Cure, especially as it pertains to amino acids. Perhaps you're bingeing because the sugar is fulfilling a need that you're not getting in any other way. Willpower sometimes only goes so far.

Two brief articles that address this:

http://drhyman.com/blog/2011/02/04/stopping-addiction-to-sugar-willpower-or-genetics/

http://www.foodrenegade.com/how-beat-sugar-cravings-glutamine/

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:48 PM

I will check this out. TY!

2
Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on July 04, 2013
at 11:57 AM

You want the ultimate distraction technique? Work out until you feel like THIS in the gym.

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:48 PM

lol I do need to work out. A few years ago I fractured my femur and I pretty much just walk for exercise. I need to have hardware removed but I have no time or money to get it done. I found a crossfit gym in my town and I would love to go one time to get the weight lifting technique down.

7a6529ea25b655132fe58d793f95547a

(2030)

on July 04, 2013
at 03:19 PM

Oh man, classic Arni clip!

2
50a12c595436b7620224676a2ae4acb9

(128)

on July 04, 2013
at 01:42 AM

The first bite of what? I'm curious to know what foods you're binging on, if they're more "indulgent" like dark chocolate, nut butters, cream etc it's probably a good idea to just not keep them in the house. At least until you can get the binging under control.

I feel as though I could have written your post and when I want to binge (if I don't give in that is) the easiest thing for me to do is just go to sleep. Like most people, I binge at night, when I am tired and my will power is just too depleted. Going to bed is like throwing in the towel without actually giving into the binge. And, I think due to the mental nature of binging, BED and otherwise there is no "cure". Instead it can be managed through avoidance and cooping mechanisms and maybe it will always be a "technique" as opposed to second nature.

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 03:03 PM

Yep I've lost all of the weight again after starting strict paleo in Nov. I stopped weighing on a scale but I'm wearing a size 6-8. My previous losses were doing low carb and VLC which seemed to stop working over the years. When I look at the big picture it's my failure at maintaining that causes the regain. It is it's own beast!

50a12c595436b7620224676a2ae4acb9

(128)

on July 04, 2013
at 01:29 PM

Gotcha, I tend to be the same way with sugar and refined carbs. It literally is like being under the influence, and I know once I'm in that "zone" it's difficult to not binge. Hot liquids like tea, coffee and water with lemon I've also found helpful. The first couple of days you really just have to muddle through to get back on track. Have you lost all the weight again? If not I would make that the goal, since when people are trying to loose weight they tend to be more focused and driven and there are a bunch of proven steps that work. Maintaining weight loss is it's own beast.

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:10 AM

Thanks! I agree with you that there is no easy answer with this. By first bite I mean the first bite of any sugar/refined carb that will set me off to weeks of carb binging and trying to get back on track. I've been there and done the re-gain and lose again.. if I could stop that first bite somehow.

1
048dd52752c45129c1212bfffb37ca72

on July 04, 2013
at 12:42 PM

Just try for some time eating a breakfast with 40 to 60 gr of protein, similar fat and a few carbs if you want, from vegetables. Basically you use a lot of protein and fat to trigger huge satiation and do not put sweet things that can mess your brain. If you do, then soon you won't think about binging or looking for weird strategies any more!

BTW, when I had a lot of cravings, cleaning my teeth worked pretty well to 'reset'.

048dd52752c45129c1212bfffb37ca72

(3150)

on July 04, 2013
at 07:35 PM

I'd say that if you cannot get satiated enough with 60gr of protein on your breakfast then eat even more until you do... but I wouldn't want you to push to protein over-consumption... I personally can get satiated enough with 30-40gr if it has similar fat and veggies that are low cal but fill my stomach... if you cannot, then I wonder... do you binge because you crave at a hunger level or do you do it in response to stress? Stress binging is very common and difficult to avoid, that might need to be addressed with more relax, positive thinking, meditation, etc...

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:51 PM

I am one of those people that gets binge-y or snack-y with a large breakfast even if I get 60 gms protien/fat. I try for mid morning or early lunch and hopefully get through until the evening. I do agree that the 60 gms is needed for a good "reset" if I've been eating refined sugar/carbs for a few months.

0
6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

on July 04, 2013
at 02:09 PM

If you have sugar addict genes then you have to go for abstinence just as if you were an alcoholic. You have a special biochemistry. It cannot eat chocolate etc in moderation. You need to stop it all and perhaps also fruit and certainly honey and all sugar substitutes - after 2 or 3 weeks you will not want them as the need for them will go.

The way to achieve this is slowly. Start with eating 3 paleo meals a day and no snacks. Put your sugar after meals only, immediately after. Then come to the point of giving up the after meal binge foods.

Dd61f42b211a69f5899fc1ae1d2460bf

(71)

on July 04, 2013
at 02:54 PM

I do think I have a sugar addict gene. I can easily lose weight (100 lbs after 2 pregnancies and close to that after a broken leg) however one slip up starts the slippery slope and I'm gaining again. I think black and white thinking contributes to this as well. Knowing that it takes me a good month of vlc to get into ketosis leads me to say, "oh what's one more day of cake gonna do?" ugh

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