2

votes

Glucosamine: avoid supplementing

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 27, 2010 at 7:00 PM

http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2010/10/careful-with-glucosamine.html

Another reason I'm anti -supplement, pro-real food...

Anyone have any counters or supporting studies for this to share?

Medium avatar

(8239)

on December 07, 2011
at 04:33 PM

Dr R raises excellent points about excessive dosage and about who's footing e bill for the research and why.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 03:04 PM

That rules out proxy-placebo, lol :) Great share.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 03:03 PM

AH, wtf, in vitro study... 10g of anything put directly on cell culture kills the cells. WTF, professor Picard is an idiot.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 03:02 PM

The dose was very high tho.. around 10g ... :S. Still... taking 10g of sugar or glucose doesn't lead to beta cell toxicity.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 03:01 PM

The dose was very high tho.. around 10g ... :S. Still... taking 10g of sugar or glucose doesn't lead to beta cell toxicity. AH, wtf, in vitro study... junk.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 02:59 PM

Indeed. I really wonder how such fundamentally stupid things can be said by prominent scientist. Respect-- for Rosedale.

Bad3a78e228c67a7513c28f17c36b3cf

(1387)

on December 07, 2011
at 12:27 PM

Ditto with my dog. I was skeptical when the vet suggested it, (since it never worked for me) but she said it worked better for dogs. Indeed it does!

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on December 07, 2011
at 12:06 PM

LOL at beta cell toxicity...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 12:00 PM

Nonsense. Rosedale should know better. Glucosamine is taken at most 1 g per day, up to 2g. If some of it turns to glucose its meaninglessly small amount - you get more eating brussel sprouts for lunch.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 11:59 AM

Billy oblivion said it well: "Yeah, one study on elderly folks with osteoarthritis doesn't translate well to 20/30/40 year old athletes with ACL issues or tears in the cartilage etc." Why ignoring all other studies ?

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 14, 2011
at 02:20 PM

Personally, I'd suspect that it was the chondroiten then, if you were giving him both at once.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on February 14, 2011
at 04:54 AM

All I know is it performed miracles on my dog who had been getting very achy for years and years. But the glucosamine and chondroiten fixed him like he was almost a young dog again. Ironically, when I started him on it, I had almost no faith that it would actually do much, but I just wanted to leave no stone unturned before starting him on NSAIDs. As it was, though, the glucosamine and chondroiten was like a miracle for him and he never had to get NSAIDs at all. He went from couldn't get out of bed to springing out of bed each morning!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on October 28, 2010
at 03:58 AM

Eva- I think this study was done to explore the biological basis of changes found in animal studies. So these scientists may be a notch below cheekiness.

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12 Answers

best answer

3
149af6e19a06675614dfbb6838a7d7c0

on October 28, 2010
at 09:03 PM

Here is Dr. Ron Rosedale's response to the question. "Likely true, as high doses of glucosamine that cannot be directly incorporated into joints, is metabolized into glucose (glucose-amine) causing beta cell toxicity. That's why I've never recommended more than 500 mg at a time. One should not take any type of glusose/protein in excess such that it would be metabolized as fuel and must be careful of any glucose containing nutrient... That all being said, one has to wonder about who financed this study, as pharmaceutical companies continually try as hard as they can to smear any natural substance that might cut into their profits. Were these French pharmacists just curious, or was somebody paying them?"

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 03:02 PM

The dose was very high tho.. around 10g ... :S. Still... taking 10g of sugar or glucose doesn't lead to beta cell toxicity.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 03:01 PM

The dose was very high tho.. around 10g ... :S. Still... taking 10g of sugar or glucose doesn't lead to beta cell toxicity. AH, wtf, in vitro study... junk.

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on December 07, 2011
at 12:06 PM

LOL at beta cell toxicity...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 03:03 PM

AH, wtf, in vitro study... 10g of anything put directly on cell culture kills the cells. WTF, professor Picard is an idiot.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 12:00 PM

Nonsense. Rosedale should know better. Glucosamine is taken at most 1 g per day, up to 2g. If some of it turns to glucose its meaninglessly small amount - you get more eating brussel sprouts for lunch.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 02:59 PM

Indeed. I really wonder how such fundamentally stupid things can be said by prominent scientist. Respect-- for Rosedale.

Medium avatar

(8239)

on December 07, 2011
at 04:33 PM

Dr R raises excellent points about excessive dosage and about who's footing e bill for the research and why.

3
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on February 14, 2011
at 05:00 AM

One thing that is very interesting is that apparently glucosamine preferentially binds to gliadin, rendering the gliadin unable to bind to anything else, and causing it to pass more harmlessly through the gut. Thus I would not be surprised if part or even all of the therapeutic action of glucosamine is via helping to neutralize wheat gliadin.

2
Efc949694a31043bfce9ec86e8235cd7

on February 11, 2011
at 03:43 PM

Just a suggestion: read up on Hyaluronic Acid (HA). Glucosamine seems to address the symptoms (pain, inflammation), yet HA seems to address the root cause (age-related decrease of joint fluid and collagen).

Jarrow has an excellent HA supplement with low molecular weight for best absorption.

2
D5cde8031564f905260ce9aa7a1f5e2c

on October 31, 2010
at 12:34 AM

I just came across this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20410091

"For most of the supplements we examined, there was no association with total mortality. Use of glucosamine and use of chondroitin were each associated with decreased total mortality."

2
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on October 28, 2010
at 03:55 AM

I bet a lot of things we eat would be bad for pancreatic cells if you yanked the cells out of your pancreas, floated em in a test tube, and then bathed them with the stuff. I would not like to see any poor beta cell get a bath made of stomach acid for instance! But yet stomach acid is very good for you as long as it is in the right place, ie not floating around your pancreatic cells. The problem with test tube testing is that it cannot factor in the body's natural processing mechanisms. Rather cheeky if you ask me, for any scientist to make recommendations of that nature merely on the basis of what happens in a test tube. They should at least upgrade to rats or something first!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on October 28, 2010
at 03:58 AM

Eva- I think this study was done to explore the biological basis of changes found in animal studies. So these scientists may be a notch below cheekiness.

2
21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on October 27, 2010
at 08:15 PM

Good catch. It was in vivo though, and I don't recall human glucosamine studies showing increased diabetes in the treatment group. Although many animals studies have pointed to adverse effects on blood sugar in the past few years, this didn't pan out in human trials.

In addition, supraphysiological doses probably have a much worse effect than the amount you can inadvertently get from eating shellfish, bone, and marrow. Or from low-moderate supplement doses.

I do believe that doctors who recommend glucosamine to patients should check blood sugar. My grandma is diabetic, and her doctor did not take necessary precautions. It's tough to keep up on all this stuff though, if you're a busy primary care doctor.

1
B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

on February 11, 2011
at 03:05 PM

Have some bone broth instead, it has all that you need to maintain or rebuild joints. Esp if you make it with a touch of vinegar, more of the beasties joints will dissolve into broth.

If you are feeling hardcore, chew up the crumbly bones and eat them too.

I am newly a fan, bone broth is increasing my rate of recovery after strenuous exercise.

mmmm, tasty too!

1
16ac9720030cbf0908f56da404ab01b9

(289)

on October 31, 2010
at 01:03 PM

Art Ayers, Ph.D., says glucosamine doesn't make it out of your stomach, but that it attacks harmful biofilms in the gut flora that cause inflammation. I think some of his research is still theoretical, but that would explain why some people (but not others) get improvements in inflammation-induced joint pain on glucosamine while others don't.

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2009/09/cure-for-inflammatory-diseases.html

1
66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

on October 27, 2010
at 08:18 PM

i'd like to know more because all i know is i was a close to getting my knee scoped and used glucosamine chondroitin msm as a last option before going under the knife with little faith in it actually working and, voila. it's like this magic little pill greased my knee joints and the pain never came back.

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 11:51 AM

As someone who’s had torn cartilage problems, whatever happened to the possibility of growing your own replacement cartilage? Did that turn out to be just another chimera? I’m swimming now to try and keep my knees going as long as possible, but am concerned about the lack of impact causing bone atrophy as I grow older. It looks like there are no good answers to age-related joint problems, whether in knees, hips, or spine, so I guess we’ll all be taking varying amounts of over-the-counter pain medications. And an equally severe problem is chronic back pain due to degeneration. Are we all condemned to increasing pain as we get older, and no medical solution in sight? It’s no wonder that so many people, in desperation, turn to quackery.

Glucosamine

0
E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on October 31, 2010
at 10:39 AM

It was my understanding that (as of 2009) it had been shown that glucosamine did virtually nothing for joint health. I looked into it because my grandfather started taking it for his joints, despite refusing to take the omega-3, vitamin D that might actually help them!

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on February 14, 2011
at 04:54 AM

All I know is it performed miracles on my dog who had been getting very achy for years and years. But the glucosamine and chondroiten fixed him like he was almost a young dog again. Ironically, when I started him on it, I had almost no faith that it would actually do much, but I just wanted to leave no stone unturned before starting him on NSAIDs. As it was, though, the glucosamine and chondroiten was like a miracle for him and he never had to get NSAIDs at all. He went from couldn't get out of bed to springing out of bed each morning!

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 14, 2011
at 02:20 PM

Personally, I'd suspect that it was the chondroiten then, if you were giving him both at once.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 07, 2011
at 03:04 PM

That rules out proxy-placebo, lol :) Great share.

Bad3a78e228c67a7513c28f17c36b3cf

(1387)

on December 07, 2011
at 12:27 PM

Ditto with my dog. I was skeptical when the vet suggested it, (since it never worked for me) but she said it worked better for dogs. Indeed it does!

0
03f5a69fde4012b827ebdb6d93b71e7a

on October 27, 2010
at 10:05 PM

I've been having good luck with my knees and a glucosamine/chondroitin/msm supplement too. I don't have bad problems but some dance classes were really making for achy knees. Started supplements and no further problems.. even had a few days where I ran out and the problem came back temporarily.

It's definitely tough to keep up on all this stuff, but that's why this community is so helpful.

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