15

votes

Ray Peat and muscle meat

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 11, 2011 at 1:25 AM

I recently read this article by ray peat, basically saying that muscle meat is bad because it's high in tryptophan and cysteine and low in glycine. He claims that the former amino acids are inflammatory and inhibit activity of the thyroid, in addition to causing other problems. I know organ meats are good, but are muscle meats really that bad? Also, if tryptophan is that bad why do so many people say it helps them sleep? He seems to contradict himself when he says tryptophan is lost in large amounts when under stress, but then he says it also causes the body more stress. If this were the case shouldn't we have a decent amount of it in the diet in order to compensate for the times we're under stress (which for many people nowadays is every day)? What about the studies showing that people who were fed a tryptophan-deficient diet became depressed? Peat seems to be an outside the box thinker but this isn't the first time I've read him writing things that are the opposite of what most people in the paleo community believe. Here's the article I read http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml.

2b269f081f7e3190b489b1ecbf58f922

on August 17, 2012
at 04:06 AM

jack shut the fuck up

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on January 07, 2012
at 01:13 PM

Fyi only large protein free carbohydrate meals increase blood trytophan(because insulin doesn't uptake trytophan). Eat your meal with protein like peat recommends and this doesn't happen.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on January 07, 2012
at 01:08 PM

No joke dsohei. I have to listen to peats interviews and read his articles multiple times before I grasp it.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on January 06, 2012
at 06:57 PM

if peat was on paleohacks as much as the quilt was, people's cursory dismissal of his ideas would change. it's always a case of "i read 2-3 articles by this guy and now i know everything about his theories."

E117e22673120656e7349825c46127ee

(105)

on December 20, 2011
at 03:55 PM

This is very interesting. On the brink of becoming passionate by biology again

E117e22673120656e7349825c46127ee

(105)

on December 20, 2011
at 03:44 PM

I think TheQuilt's detailed answer in this post clarifies things Chris : http://paleohacks.com/questions/34773/serotonin-high-levels-or-low-levels-lead-to-depression#axzz1h4rUrMG5

6869a1f2294b3a717a53645589a91d18

(1689)

on December 02, 2011
at 10:14 PM

@ Phenoix re 'He talks about keeping dietary tryptophan and cysteine low, yet he also recommends drinking lots of milk.' There's some explanation for this, like due to the milk's phosphorus content or something, I can't recall. He also advocates balancing milk with other gelatinous proteins, not a pure milk diet.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on November 17, 2011
at 02:32 AM

woah....i just learned a lot

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 16, 2011
at 05:17 PM

Whats the other way around? You basically expressed exactly what ray thinks

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 16, 2011
at 05:14 PM

Whats the other way around? You basically expressed exactly what ray thinks minus the insulin part which sounds like BS.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 16, 2011
at 02:39 PM

its the other way around. High estrogen or insulin cause the thyroid to down regulate via leptin action. And high serotonin does the same thing. The thyroid response to hormones, AA, and signals.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 12, 2011
at 05:25 PM

how???????????????

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:29 PM

Cliff, I think you missed the point.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 12, 2011
at 01:35 PM

He promotes gelatin because the amino acids it contains are pro-thyroid

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 12, 2011
at 01:33 PM

which the journals have refused to publish. You can't go onto pubmed and expect to find a bunch of corroborations for ray peats stuff, although he has a ton of sources for pretty much everything he states if you give him an email.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 12, 2011
at 01:31 PM

@pheonix, he thinks cheese is slightly superior to milk because most of the trytophan is in the whey. You can't compare by calorie either(who eats protein for calories?) you have to compare by protein amounts, for equivalent amounts of protein meat gives you almost double the amount of cystiene but milk does have slightly higher trytophan. Milk contains sugars though which are protective against these anti-thryoid amino acids(I think calcium is too according to him). Ray peat has put pretty everything he preaches into practice on him self and other people, he has also done lots of research.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 12, 2011
at 01:19 PM

Ray peat isn't arguing from a evolutionary perspective necessarily. He says to avoid methionine and cysteine because they are anti-thyroid when the liver starts running low on glycogen. He doesn't like trytophan because it can turn into serotonin which inhibits the thyroid. Ray peat is all about pro-thyroid diets, You can't just take one part of his recommendations without looking at the whole.

Medium avatar

on November 12, 2011
at 04:53 AM

I suppose the endurance runners would have to have significant amounts of muscle meats along with the large amount of carbs in order to increase tryptophan levels enough to cause osteopenia. Carbs increase trp absorption but you gotta have enough trp in the diet relative to other AAs to compete for uptake to the brain right? This is assuming one isn't LR and IR of course.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:42 AM

You also know I love protein but I just showed you even protein has a dose response curve in the human body. As does carbs and fats. The key is to know how to read your hormonal profile to decide what part of the curve your personal pharmacokinetics is based upon at the present time. This is why I test like a nut. I have found out all I know because of all the testing I have done on myself and my patients. Many of my fellow MDs are just shocked at how I can pick up subtle cues in disease or in patterns that signify a problem. Its not smarts.....its that I practice this stuff every day

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:39 AM

bingo......and your answer shows that you are getting it. This is why I still come here. If I can help one person get to the core issue all the time and effort was worth it. Just pay it forward. Help ten others. That gets us closer to the tipping point.

Medium avatar

on November 12, 2011
at 04:07 AM

It helps a lot. This is a perfect example of why clinical experience trumps research. You can research all day long about how much protein people should eat but when you get to ask them detailed questions and more come to you with similar problems and history, you can see patterns that either support the research you've done or not. Regarding too much tryptophan causing osteoporosis: is it because it increases leptin levels which inactivates osteocalcin and decreases bone density?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:14 AM

Chris....if you read my osteoporosis blog of Nov 1 you will realize eating too much Turkey (tryptophan) actually causes osteoporosis....this is why my osteopenics are told to avoid fowl. Carbohydrates increase tryptophan absorption and this also depletes bone. Everwonder why endurance carbs loaders get osteopenia? Now you know. See clinical medicine has some big time pearls for you if you know how to phrase the question and you clearly do. I hope this helps you.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:11 AM

Yes Chris.....if you eat skeletal muscle more than offal you need B6, I, and drink a lot of coffee.

Medium avatar

on November 12, 2011
at 01:20 AM

I think it's not about whether or not they're high but if they're high relative to the other amino acids. Obviously if you aren't getting enough of the other AAs that's bad, but if you're getting all of them in decent amounts I don't think people should worry about how high their tryptophan levels are.

Medium avatar

on November 12, 2011
at 01:18 AM

Thanks for putting it all in perspective Dr. K. You've made a much stronger case for not overeating muscle meats than Peat does imo. You're saying we should focus on total protein intake rather than whether or not one or two amino acids are high, which is what Peat focuses on. If cellular inflammation from B6 depletion is the main concern couldn't we just increase our B6 supplementation to correspond to our protein intake? Peat doesn't mention this but is saying that too much tryptophan and cysteine is bad.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:29 AM

thx for the milk comment Phoenix. It made me go & find this Peat article; raypeat.com/articles/articles/milk.shtml .Tho i only read the last 6 paras (after searching for the word tryptophan).

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:28 AM

thx for the milk comment Phoenix. It made me go & find this Peat article; raypeat.com/articles/articles/milk.shtml .Tho i only read the last 6 paras (after searching for the word tryptophan).

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:24 AM

thx for the milk comment Phoenix. It made go & find this Peat article; http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/milk.shtml Tho i only read the last 6 paras (after searching for the word tryptophan).

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:22 AM

But the longer the depletion goes on the higher the stress levels are.....when that happens we also see Mg depletion and we see lower CO2 on Chem 7 testing as a clinical sign.....if you take it a step further and get a salivary cortisol level it will be markedly altered. This is how it happens.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:20 AM

B6 is used in one carbon transfer reactions that also are crucial in making Nucleic acids in humans. The biggest paleo consideration should be how much protein one takes in on your paleo diet, why?Increased dietary protein results in an increased requirement for vitamin B6, This is due to B6 (PLP) being a coenzyme for many enzymes involved in amino acid metabolism. This is why a high protein diet can deplete B6. When it is depleted it leads to cellular inflammation and then cortisol can rise as a consequence of disturbed cellular signaling. It is not a direct cause of high cortisol

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:14 AM

Steroid hormones like estrogen and testosterone, exert their effects in the body by binding to steroid hormone receptors in the nucleus of the cell and altering gene transcription. PLP binds to steroid receptors in a manner that inhibits the binding of steroid hormones, thus decreasing their effects. The binding of PLP to steroid receptors for estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and other steroid hormones suggests that the vitamin B6 status of an individual may have implications for diseases affected by steroid hormones, including some breast and prostate cancers.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:13 AM

In brain neurochemistry, the synthesis of the neurotransmitter, serotonin, from dietary tryptophan, is catalyzed by this (B6) PLP-dependent enzyme. Other neurotransmitters, like dopamine, norepinephrine and GABA, are also made using PLP-dependent enzymes. Heme is also made using this enzyme system. Niacin can be made from tryptophan using B6 as a cofactor too.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:09 AM

There are three forms of vitamin B6: pyridoxal , pyridoxine, pyridoxamine. The phosphate ester derivative is pyridoxal 5'-phosphate and is the principal co-enzyme form of B6. It also has the most biologic importance in human metabolism. For example, it functions as a coenzyme for glycogen phosphorylase, the enzyme that catalyzes the release of glucose from stored muscle/liver glycogen. It is vital in many stress related reactions and energy producing reactions and can only be gotten from dietary support. We do not make it endogenously.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:01 AM

Chris......Theory must meet practice at some point. For those who dont believe it they will continue in the maze of basic research.

Medium avatar

(19469)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:39 PM

I was hoping to hear something about carbohydrate consumption ;)

Medium avatar

on November 11, 2011
at 07:40 PM

I wasn't aware he was thanks for pointing that out. I was referring more to a clinical setting though, but if he does do nutritional consulting then that lends him a little more credibility.

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on November 11, 2011
at 07:33 PM

Chris- He is sort of in practice...he doesn't nutritional consultations. I have consulted with him.

Medium avatar

on November 11, 2011
at 06:53 PM

This is why I tend to put more weight on the advice of doctors who blog than researchers like Peat. It seems he's thought about a lot of these things and tried to make connections, but hasn't thought through all the implications of his conclusions. If he was in practice and got to see whether or not his advice worked he could change it based on what works and what doesn't. This is why medicine is half art half science. The problem is some people make it all science and theory, causing them to forget the practical implications of their ideas. Good point though that's contradictory advice.

76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on November 11, 2011
at 06:45 PM

This is where Peat confuses me. He talks about keeping dietary tryptophan and cysteine low, yet he also recommends drinking lots of milk. By calorie, milk has about the same amount of tryptophan as muscle meat, and nearly double the cysteine.

Medium avatar

on November 11, 2011
at 06:40 PM

I agree with everything you said. I think Peat has a tendency to take a good argument and go to far with it by making unsubstantiated claims. It makes sense that amino acid balance is important, our ancestors ate all parts of the animal as you said, but Peat extrapolates that to saying which amino acids are bad and which are good. It's all relative, and if you have optimal amounts of each one of them you won't have any problems.

Medium avatar

on November 11, 2011
at 04:42 AM

Also, studies show tryptophan is effective in helping people sleep, so how could it be raising cortisol when cortisol interferes with melatonin production and high cortisol levels at night are known to cause insomnia? I agree that we should have more glycine in our diets, but some of Peat's claims are hard to believe. I can't find any studies saying serotonin increases cortisol, just that it may have a role in regulating the hpa axis.

Medium avatar

on November 11, 2011
at 04:09 AM

I agree that balance is important when it comes to amino acids and our ancestors ate the whole animal whereas most people today only eat the muscles, but I'm not sure I agree with his ideas on tryptophan and cysteine. You need cysteine for glutatione production, even more so in our high toxin environments than before. I checked his references and I didn't see any backing up his claims about cysteine and tryptophan so I don't know what evidence he has to back that up.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:04 AM

i tend to agree with Mallory, Peat suggests eating the "whole animal" (my words), not just the muscle meat. here's another Peat article on the topic. http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/tryptophan-serotonin-aging.shtml

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:33 AM

i think he just empasizes balance, like gelatin to balance the aminos in muscle meat

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4 Answers

best answer

6
4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on November 11, 2011
at 06:27 PM

I like Ray Peat because he is right a lot and has interesting ideas. That said, I don't love the way he writes because he pitches mechanistic plausibility as something more established and it is misleading.

Here's the argument for glycine/gelatin:

  1. Early man plausibly ate a higher proportion of glycine to other amino acids than we do now-- by eating things like skin, connective tissue, eyeballs, etc. (Similar arguments can be made with respect to organ meats). Thus, we should be a little suspicious of straying far from this paradigm by eating so much muscle meat and so little gelatin (and organ meats).

  2. To support the view that this potential/likely departure from our evolutionary niche is meaningful, I think it is valid to rattle off a list of plausible problems associated with imbalanced amino acid intake. Peat's discussion includes some interesting ideas. I think you could even add some other potential problems to the ones he discusses... That said, I think Peat's presentation is misleading because almost nothing he wrote amounts to more than mechanistic speculation!! We just don't know that much about human biology to make the kinds of claims he does. For example, thousands of scientists have been studying cholesterol for half a century and still have the theory partly wrong (in my opinion). By comparison, relatively few scientists have been studying amino acid balance (and most of them study livestock).

So, to sum up, there is reason to think early man got a higher proportion of glycine to other amino acids than we do now. And, there are some reasons to suspect that this departure from our past practices might be meaningful. Based on that, I've started to include more bone broths and gelatinous cuts in my diet.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:29 PM

Cliff, I think you missed the point.

Medium avatar

on November 11, 2011
at 06:40 PM

I agree with everything you said. I think Peat has a tendency to take a good argument and go to far with it by making unsubstantiated claims. It makes sense that amino acid balance is important, our ancestors ate all parts of the animal as you said, but Peat extrapolates that to saying which amino acids are bad and which are good. It's all relative, and if you have optimal amounts of each one of them you won't have any problems.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 12, 2011
at 01:19 PM

Ray peat isn't arguing from a evolutionary perspective necessarily. He says to avoid methionine and cysteine because they are anti-thyroid when the liver starts running low on glycogen. He doesn't like trytophan because it can turn into serotonin which inhibits the thyroid. Ray peat is all about pro-thyroid diets, You can't just take one part of his recommendations without looking at the whole.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 12, 2011
at 05:25 PM

how???????????????

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 12, 2011
at 01:35 PM

He promotes gelatin because the amino acids it contains are pro-thyroid

4
41efca928dffd347713d0bd486e95669

on January 07, 2012
at 01:58 AM

I'm relatively new to Ray Peat's ideas, but I've been very impressed by a lot of what he writes (and talks about, in numerous interviews that one can find fairly easily), even if it challenges some of my ideas I've picked up on ~4 years of what I call "real food low-carbing" (no grains, no frankenfoods and minimal PUFAs, for example). Biggest challenge is on fructose, but let that pass for now.

People won't believe this, but IMHO, Peat isn't quite as far from low-carb/"paleo"(some versions of) as a lot of people might think - he recommends e.g. meat, organ meat, cheese, butter, eggs, organ meats, bone broths/gelatine, is against most starches (but goes easy on new potatoes). Although he talks a lot about sugar, when you listen to him, his main sugar is from non-starchy fruit, although he doesn't have a real problem with sucrose (doesn't favour HFCS though), and he's very selective about his fruit. He's very pro-saturated fats, especially coconut oil & very anti-PUFAs. (Controversially, he regards omega-3's as possibly worse than omega-6's, which a lot of the LC/"paleo" world won't like).

People also won't like his support of milk, but he says, when muscle meat is combined with milk, this helps to balance out the amino acids and also the calcium-phosphorous ratio. So he's not anti muscle-meat per se, but strongly suggests it should be balanced out with other things, like milk, but also gelatin (ideally from bone broths), organ meats, gristle, skin ... more or less the "whole animal", as we might imagine "primitive" people having consumed their animals....but this is a slight contradiction, as generally, he doesn't go along with the "paleo" idea, since he doesn't believe we can know with any accuracy what a real palaeolithic diet was like, and its questionable if we have any real evidence that it was any healthier than any other diet. I happen to share that skepticism, which is why I never use the word "paleo" about my way of eating, although a lot of it may correspond to what some other people call "paleo".

However, please don't condemn him because of my possibly faulty paraphrase of his ideas. Read his articles and try to listen to some of the interviews. He appears to really know his stuff. My slight worry about him is that he seems to have been out on a limb for so long, he has been subject to little if any "peer review". However, he is even more skeptical about modern medical research than Taubes or Barry Groves, so it's hard to see how any meaningful "peer review" of his ideas could take place. I'd like to see some sort of debate between him and some suitably qualified (but open-minded) professional. Not sure if it will ever happen though.

2
E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 16, 2011
at 01:44 PM

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/eastwesthealing/2011/08/25/ray-peat-serotonin-and-endotoxin

"Low thyroid can cause excesses of estrogen and serotonin.... In the 1960s LSD was vilified and there was a campaign against it claiming it makes peope insane. Conversly it was deduced that serotonin (since LSD is an antagonist) makes people sane. That's when the generally accepted, but false, notion that serotonin is beneficial came about....Stress causes serotonin production in the stomach which can cause bleeding....Serotonin works with estrogen - estrogen activates tryptophan to turn into serotonin. Progesterone aids in the detoxification/processing of serotonin."

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 16, 2011
at 02:39 PM

its the other way around. High estrogen or insulin cause the thyroid to down regulate via leptin action. And high serotonin does the same thing. The thyroid response to hormones, AA, and signals.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 16, 2011
at 05:17 PM

Whats the other way around? You basically expressed exactly what ray thinks

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 16, 2011
at 05:14 PM

Whats the other way around? You basically expressed exactly what ray thinks minus the insulin part which sounds like BS.

0
E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:30 PM

Excess trytophan and methionine deplete b6

http://faculty.washington.edu/ely/JOM2.html

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:14 AM

Steroid hormones like estrogen and testosterone, exert their effects in the body by binding to steroid hormone receptors in the nucleus of the cell and altering gene transcription. PLP binds to steroid receptors in a manner that inhibits the binding of steroid hormones, thus decreasing their effects. The binding of PLP to steroid receptors for estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and other steroid hormones suggests that the vitamin B6 status of an individual may have implications for diseases affected by steroid hormones, including some breast and prostate cancers.

Medium avatar

on November 12, 2011
at 04:53 AM

I suppose the endurance runners would have to have significant amounts of muscle meats along with the large amount of carbs in order to increase tryptophan levels enough to cause osteopenia. Carbs increase trp absorption but you gotta have enough trp in the diet relative to other AAs to compete for uptake to the brain right? This is assuming one isn't LR and IR of course.

Medium avatar

(19469)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:39 PM

I was hoping to hear something about carbohydrate consumption ;)

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:14 AM

Chris....if you read my osteoporosis blog of Nov 1 you will realize eating too much Turkey (tryptophan) actually causes osteoporosis....this is why my osteopenics are told to avoid fowl. Carbohydrates increase tryptophan absorption and this also depletes bone. Everwonder why endurance carbs loaders get osteopenia? Now you know. See clinical medicine has some big time pearls for you if you know how to phrase the question and you clearly do. I hope this helps you.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:20 AM

B6 is used in one carbon transfer reactions that also are crucial in making Nucleic acids in humans. The biggest paleo consideration should be how much protein one takes in on your paleo diet, why?Increased dietary protein results in an increased requirement for vitamin B6, This is due to B6 (PLP) being a coenzyme for many enzymes involved in amino acid metabolism. This is why a high protein diet can deplete B6. When it is depleted it leads to cellular inflammation and then cortisol can rise as a consequence of disturbed cellular signaling. It is not a direct cause of high cortisol

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:09 AM

There are three forms of vitamin B6: pyridoxal , pyridoxine, pyridoxamine. The phosphate ester derivative is pyridoxal 5'-phosphate and is the principal co-enzyme form of B6. It also has the most biologic importance in human metabolism. For example, it functions as a coenzyme for glycogen phosphorylase, the enzyme that catalyzes the release of glucose from stored muscle/liver glycogen. It is vital in many stress related reactions and energy producing reactions and can only be gotten from dietary support. We do not make it endogenously.

Medium avatar

on November 12, 2011
at 01:18 AM

Thanks for putting it all in perspective Dr. K. You've made a much stronger case for not overeating muscle meats than Peat does imo. You're saying we should focus on total protein intake rather than whether or not one or two amino acids are high, which is what Peat focuses on. If cellular inflammation from B6 depletion is the main concern couldn't we just increase our B6 supplementation to correspond to our protein intake? Peat doesn't mention this but is saying that too much tryptophan and cysteine is bad.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:11 AM

Yes Chris.....if you eat skeletal muscle more than offal you need B6, I, and drink a lot of coffee.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:22 AM

But the longer the depletion goes on the higher the stress levels are.....when that happens we also see Mg depletion and we see lower CO2 on Chem 7 testing as a clinical sign.....if you take it a step further and get a salivary cortisol level it will be markedly altered. This is how it happens.

Medium avatar

on November 12, 2011
at 01:20 AM

I think it's not about whether or not they're high but if they're high relative to the other amino acids. Obviously if you aren't getting enough of the other AAs that's bad, but if you're getting all of them in decent amounts I don't think people should worry about how high their tryptophan levels are.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:13 AM

In brain neurochemistry, the synthesis of the neurotransmitter, serotonin, from dietary tryptophan, is catalyzed by this (B6) PLP-dependent enzyme. Other neurotransmitters, like dopamine, norepinephrine and GABA, are also made using PLP-dependent enzymes. Heme is also made using this enzyme system. Niacin can be made from tryptophan using B6 as a cofactor too.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:42 AM

You also know I love protein but I just showed you even protein has a dose response curve in the human body. As does carbs and fats. The key is to know how to read your hormonal profile to decide what part of the curve your personal pharmacokinetics is based upon at the present time. This is why I test like a nut. I have found out all I know because of all the testing I have done on myself and my patients. Many of my fellow MDs are just shocked at how I can pick up subtle cues in disease or in patterns that signify a problem. Its not smarts.....its that I practice this stuff every day

Medium avatar

on November 12, 2011
at 04:07 AM

It helps a lot. This is a perfect example of why clinical experience trumps research. You can research all day long about how much protein people should eat but when you get to ask them detailed questions and more come to you with similar problems and history, you can see patterns that either support the research you've done or not. Regarding too much tryptophan causing osteoporosis: is it because it increases leptin levels which inactivates osteocalcin and decreases bone density?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:39 AM

bingo......and your answer shows that you are getting it. This is why I still come here. If I can help one person get to the core issue all the time and effort was worth it. Just pay it forward. Help ten others. That gets us closer to the tipping point.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on November 17, 2011
at 02:32 AM

woah....i just learned a lot

E117e22673120656e7349825c46127ee

(105)

on December 20, 2011
at 03:55 PM

This is very interesting. On the brink of becoming passionate by biology again

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on January 06, 2012
at 06:57 PM

if peat was on paleohacks as much as the quilt was, people's cursory dismissal of his ideas would change. it's always a case of "i read 2-3 articles by this guy and now i know everything about his theories."

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on January 07, 2012
at 01:13 PM

Fyi only large protein free carbohydrate meals increase blood trytophan(because insulin doesn't uptake trytophan). Eat your meal with protein like peat recommends and this doesn't happen.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on January 07, 2012
at 01:08 PM

No joke dsohei. I have to listen to peats interviews and read his articles multiple times before I grasp it.

2b269f081f7e3190b489b1ecbf58f922

on August 17, 2012
at 04:06 AM

jack shut the fuck up

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