7

votes

Will your passion for sleep make us unsuccessful?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 03, 2012 at 2:03 AM

This is a bit of a loaded question, but I just watched these two very inspiring videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X38PCf7kao&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5nVqeVhgQE&feature=related

Each one argues quite convincingly that people who have the most success are those who will choose success and hard work over sleep if they must choose. Paleo argues we must regain sleep, but does this limit our ability to succeed?

If you knew you had to forgo sleep to succeed in life, would you do it?

0607529af9b78bb5b178f7ffabdc4693

(701)

on April 08, 2012
at 07:49 AM

Amen. Big fat easter amen.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 08, 2012
at 03:07 AM

Yeah, I agree with Karen on the "type" thing. My boyfriend can spend all night being so excited scrawling equations all over the sliding glass door, then bound out in the morning to go learn all the things. Me on the other hand, if I'm not in bed by 11pm, headaches for the whole next day. Some people just be energetic and like that, others be not.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on April 04, 2012
at 02:33 PM

Very well put David!!!

65125edd5aafad39b3d5b3a8b4a36bb7

(6082)

on April 04, 2012
at 02:09 PM

The greatest mistake people make IMHO, is their estimation of the exchange rate between money and their time on this planet.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on April 04, 2012
at 01:33 PM

Yes @Happy Now.. yes.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on April 03, 2012
at 09:01 PM

This. I think you're either one of those types or you ain't. I ain't.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on April 03, 2012
at 08:59 PM

Ditto, Happy Now. I think the world needs more leaving alone. Having "difference in the world" to me is a very strange goal as it is beyond your reach and in 2-4 generations after your death, no one will remember your name. Of course, this coming from someone who likes to sleep.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 03, 2012
at 08:17 PM

I think the sleep begetting more sleep thing can have to do with the offgassing of chemicals and fungi in mattresses. Brominated flame retardants when mixed with sweat and drool make some interesting neurotoxic compounds. Sleeping rooms are also usually dark, and if I don't get out to where there is light in the house, I can kind of go into hibernation mode and want to stay in bed all day.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 03, 2012
at 08:14 PM

I know this probably sounds overly simplistic, and a bit utopian, but I suspect the world in general might need a lot less saving if people were afforded the luxury of living in a system a bit less ambitious about commerce, and where sleeping and eating well were givens.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 03, 2012
at 07:47 PM

I'm definitely sleeping fewer hours since regaining my health. I've dropped from 8-10 to 6-7.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on April 03, 2012
at 07:44 PM

My friend has worked 12-14 hours a day with little sleep and little time with his family. He has been very succesful. However he almost lost his life to it. He has not regained his health even a year later. Most will never have this dramatic issue however it will be very hard to have optimal health without sleep.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on April 03, 2012
at 07:44 PM

My friend has worked 12-14 hours a day with little sleep and little time with his family. He has been very succesful. However he almost lost his life to it. He has not regained his health even a year later. Moist will never have this dramatic issue however it will be very hard to have optimal health without sleep.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on April 03, 2012
at 07:31 PM

Dual Hammers, Your comment would still work minus the two unusual sentences. It would be good to copy and paste the comment minus the two sentences and repost it.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on April 03, 2012
at 06:54 PM

Dual Hammers, Your comment would still work minus the two unusual sentences. It would be good to copy and paste the comment minus the two sentences and repost it. I would be happy to respond to it without the two sentences...

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on April 03, 2012
at 06:32 PM

Oh, I was doing that too. I literally ran myself into the ground trying to stay financially stable, have a career, have a social life, yet volunteering and such to counter all the work I was doing for The Man. Sometimes 200% isn't the right way. Now I have a template, flexible!, that encompasses everything, in the, almost, right amount. Sure there are some things lacking.. but I'll get there :)

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on April 03, 2012
at 06:30 PM

Oh, I was doing that too. I literally ran myself into the ground trying to stay financially stable, have a career, have a social life, yet volunteering and such to counter all the work I was doing for The Man. Sometimes 200% isn't the right way. Now I have a template, flexible!, that encompasses everything in the right amount . Sure there are some things lacking.. but for the most part? I'm getting it right :)

091423a30c0188fbff51e39397e7e056

(384)

on April 03, 2012
at 06:08 PM

This is sound advice; I suppose I just view my idea of success a bit differently. For me, it isn't about money; it is about making a difference in the world. Sure, I could satisfy myself and my family on a very calm schedule, but would I leave the world a better place in a powerful enough way to have my life worth living? I am not sure.

091423a30c0188fbff51e39397e7e056

(384)

on April 03, 2012
at 06:04 PM

I was hoping for a more substantive answer. Saying this essentially defeats the purpose of the question because it makes it completely subjective. As a person who believes that our position inside of culture matters I was hoping for something that addressed what we collectively tend to view as success. I mean, what if I viewed success as how many pet dogs I could get away with killing? Or how many women I could psychologically damage? I assume that isn't what you meant by "it all depends on how you measure success" but leaving it so open certainly allows for that.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on April 03, 2012
at 09:52 AM

Amen amen amen.

Cf938ac46500e200c97f6adbb3365f64

(324)

on April 03, 2012
at 04:10 AM

ive had periods where i over sleep and it kills energy all day because its hard to get out of the draining affects its like the more you sleep the more you feel you need to sleep but it may not be optimal. check out sleep research there are many different styles of sleepign that people have experimented with different phasic cycles very interesting and another key fundamental area in life such as nutrition and exercise (opposite of sleep) that may be worth a hack.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 03, 2012
at 03:02 AM

By "performed" I mean I wasn't cross with people, didn't make mistakes, I prioritized my son's needs over bedtime, etc.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on April 03, 2012
at 02:26 AM

Indeed. *applause*

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on April 03, 2012
at 02:15 AM

+1. some may measure success by how happy or content one is

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 03, 2012
at 02:07 AM

Well, I did. Between motherhood and a 40-year career I was no stranger to sleep deprivation. I may be an outlier, though, because I usually perform much better than average when sleep deprived judging by my results. And, for an "old bag," I'm pretty healthy.

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9 Answers

30
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on April 03, 2012
at 02:10 AM

It all depends on how you measure success.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on April 03, 2012
at 02:26 AM

Indeed. *applause*

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on April 04, 2012
at 02:33 PM

Very well put David!!!

65125edd5aafad39b3d5b3a8b4a36bb7

(6082)

on April 04, 2012
at 02:09 PM

The greatest mistake people make IMHO, is their estimation of the exchange rate between money and their time on this planet.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on April 03, 2012
at 09:52 AM

Amen amen amen.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on April 03, 2012
at 06:54 PM

Dual Hammers, Your comment would still work minus the two unusual sentences. It would be good to copy and paste the comment minus the two sentences and repost it. I would be happy to respond to it without the two sentences...

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on April 03, 2012
at 02:15 AM

+1. some may measure success by how happy or content one is

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on April 03, 2012
at 07:31 PM

Dual Hammers, Your comment would still work minus the two unusual sentences. It would be good to copy and paste the comment minus the two sentences and repost it.

091423a30c0188fbff51e39397e7e056

(384)

on April 03, 2012
at 06:04 PM

I was hoping for a more substantive answer. Saying this essentially defeats the purpose of the question because it makes it completely subjective. As a person who believes that our position inside of culture matters I was hoping for something that addressed what we collectively tend to view as success. I mean, what if I viewed success as how many pet dogs I could get away with killing? Or how many women I could psychologically damage? I assume that isn't what you meant by "it all depends on how you measure success" but leaving it so open certainly allows for that.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on April 03, 2012
at 07:44 PM

My friend has worked 12-14 hours a day with little sleep and little time with his family. He has been very succesful. However he almost lost his life to it. He has not regained his health even a year later. Most will never have this dramatic issue however it will be very hard to have optimal health without sleep.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on April 03, 2012
at 07:44 PM

My friend has worked 12-14 hours a day with little sleep and little time with his family. He has been very succesful. However he almost lost his life to it. He has not regained his health even a year later. Moist will never have this dramatic issue however it will be very hard to have optimal health without sleep.

6
Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on April 03, 2012
at 12:56 PM

I did forgo sleep for success. I was financially stable, attended all the "right" parties and events, with an impeccable reputation and stunning resume. Was I happy? No. NO.

Now I have a few little business and such that keep me busy in a nice way, am almost, but not really, financially stable, have time for my dog - brat would rather sleep than take 7 walks a day!, have a great lifting and CrossFit schedule, am healthy as hell except for a few little bumps in the road.

I truly go to sleep when I'm tired and have an internal clock that wakes me up each morning. Unless there's a time sensitive situation my alarm isn't on - so if I sleep through my usual creepy early morning time? That's cool.

By the way, a few years ago saying "that's cool" about sleeping in, I was so busy with work that even an hour off would set me back a week it seemed - 60-70 hours a week in the office + weekend remote office time + Blackberry at all hours + trying to play with my friends would have freaked me out. Now? Happiness. Time for everything.

Sleep: 3 hours 5 hours 10 hours - whatever floats your canoe and provides an optimal platform for you to enjoy as much as you can. Work has it's place but so does life.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on April 03, 2012
at 08:59 PM

Ditto, Happy Now. I think the world needs more leaving alone. Having "difference in the world" to me is a very strange goal as it is beyond your reach and in 2-4 generations after your death, no one will remember your name. Of course, this coming from someone who likes to sleep.

091423a30c0188fbff51e39397e7e056

(384)

on April 03, 2012
at 06:08 PM

This is sound advice; I suppose I just view my idea of success a bit differently. For me, it isn't about money; it is about making a difference in the world. Sure, I could satisfy myself and my family on a very calm schedule, but would I leave the world a better place in a powerful enough way to have my life worth living? I am not sure.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on April 03, 2012
at 06:30 PM

Oh, I was doing that too. I literally ran myself into the ground trying to stay financially stable, have a career, have a social life, yet volunteering and such to counter all the work I was doing for The Man. Sometimes 200% isn't the right way. Now I have a template, flexible!, that encompasses everything in the right amount . Sure there are some things lacking.. but for the most part? I'm getting it right :)

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on April 04, 2012
at 01:33 PM

Yes @Happy Now.. yes.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on April 03, 2012
at 06:32 PM

Oh, I was doing that too. I literally ran myself into the ground trying to stay financially stable, have a career, have a social life, yet volunteering and such to counter all the work I was doing for The Man. Sometimes 200% isn't the right way. Now I have a template, flexible!, that encompasses everything, in the, almost, right amount. Sure there are some things lacking.. but I'll get there :)

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 03, 2012
at 08:14 PM

I know this probably sounds overly simplistic, and a bit utopian, but I suspect the world in general might need a lot less saving if people were afforded the luxury of living in a system a bit less ambitious about commerce, and where sleeping and eating well were givens.

0607529af9b78bb5b178f7ffabdc4693

(701)

on April 08, 2012
at 07:49 AM

Amen. Big fat easter amen.

3
Cf938ac46500e200c97f6adbb3365f64

(324)

on April 03, 2012
at 04:06 AM

calorie restriction extends life in laboratory animals

moderation is the greek virtue which emphasizes everlasting satisfaction in life's necessary but potentially gluttonous aspects: food, sex, etc

it may also be the case that reducing sleep to maintain less overall dependence on sleep may have some similar affect.

the idea of hormesis using low level stressors is beyond scientifically valid it is everywhere as a method to make things stronger think lifting weights, wind current to strengthen the stocks of plants and "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" some have even suggested that antioxidants are actually toxins which turn on immune defenses and strengthen the body through hormesis (low level stressor) rather than a direct protective mechanism.

if hormesis applies to sleep then a low level stressor of less sleep will make you stronger and over sleeping will make you weaker.

without even considering hormesis too much sleep per day could just make you feel lazy because your spending less waking hours actively alive and newtown's inertia principle is all about how an object in motion tends to stay in motion too much sleep may reduce your daily momentum your inertia too little sleep could probably do the same.

if it is hormesis you would build up to it like weights sleep is pretty essential though and if your already doing a lot to stress out the body adding sleep deprivation to that level of stress may be counterproductive

however if you are adapted to your workout routine stress levels are steady and your doing good and you want to try and get a little edge cut out two hours of sleep and stay like this for a month see how you feel then come back here ask the question again do some research and keep a journal log post your results around keep it simple and good luck !

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 03, 2012
at 08:17 PM

I think the sleep begetting more sleep thing can have to do with the offgassing of chemicals and fungi in mattresses. Brominated flame retardants when mixed with sweat and drool make some interesting neurotoxic compounds. Sleeping rooms are also usually dark, and if I don't get out to where there is light in the house, I can kind of go into hibernation mode and want to stay in bed all day.

Cf938ac46500e200c97f6adbb3365f64

(324)

on April 03, 2012
at 04:10 AM

ive had periods where i over sleep and it kills energy all day because its hard to get out of the draining affects its like the more you sleep the more you feel you need to sleep but it may not be optimal. check out sleep research there are many different styles of sleepign that people have experimented with different phasic cycles very interesting and another key fundamental area in life such as nutrition and exercise (opposite of sleep) that may be worth a hack.

2
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 03, 2012
at 08:21 PM

Could be that slightly less time in bed results in less brain fog from mattress off-gassing, so those folks are sharper at work, and get more promotions.

It could also be one of those correlation doesn't equal causation conundrums, with busy-body types not needing as much sleep because they are naturally more amped up and involved in their work.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on April 03, 2012
at 09:01 PM

This. I think you're either one of those types or you ain't. I ain't.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 08, 2012
at 03:07 AM

Yeah, I agree with Karen on the "type" thing. My boyfriend can spend all night being so excited scrawling equations all over the sliding glass door, then bound out in the morning to go learn all the things. Me on the other hand, if I'm not in bed by 11pm, headaches for the whole next day. Some people just be energetic and like that, others be not.

2
246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21430)

on April 03, 2012
at 11:21 AM

I'm firmly of the opinion in my own experimentation, that a healthy body needs less sleep than an unhealthy body. Pre-Paleo, I was doggedly tired throughout the day despite sleeping upwards of 10 hours a night, and pounding coffee/energy drinks.

I now sleep between 6.5-7 hours a night, and maybe once a week have a hankering for a caffeinated beverage if I'm stuck at a desk all day. If I'm lucky enough to get out to take my afternoon walk, I won't need the beverage.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 03, 2012
at 07:47 PM

I'm definitely sleeping fewer hours since regaining my health. I've dropped from 8-10 to 6-7.

2
De267f213b375efca5da07890e5efc25

(3747)

on April 03, 2012
at 03:18 AM

I tend to agree with that statement. However, despite the poor eating and sleeping habits, there are still enough driven people that some end up succeeding despite those problems. Then there are others who eventually saw the light, like Paul Jaminet. Imagine if he'd developed more serious health problems during his startup days?

1
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on April 03, 2012
at 01:39 PM

I think a passion for anything will lead to success, but what I am mostly seeing is either an obsession with work, or such deep boredom.

1
D5dff6376e17373751ccf4a10aaa0b34

(274)

on April 03, 2012
at 07:57 AM

Well, I am happier even if I am not more successful (although, I guess I'm pretty successful, job of a lifetime, great family, and more money than I need). But I think success can still happen with plenty of sleep, the key is focus. If you have a focused life, where you cut away all the cruft, you can have plenty of time to get the things done that you need to get done and you will enjoy them more because you are working on them in a focused manner (i.e. in a state of flow). I find being focused and having less time really helps me be more productive because it clarifies what is essential vs. what is junk.

0
870fdea50f2a9f1cd2890c8e22549300

(2056)

on April 08, 2012
at 02:37 AM

I was diagnosed with a sleep disorder about a year ago. This led me to read extensively about sleep. There is sound research (David Dinges at Penn is a specialist on the subject) indicating that chronic sleep deprivation, even in small amounts, impairs performance but the sleep-deprived subjects are unable to perceive their impairment and believe they are just fine. http://web2.med.upenn.edu/uep/user_documents/VanDongen_etal_Sleep_26_2_2003.pdf

With treatment, and logging a consistent 7 hours of good sleep per night now, I am healthier, stronger, happier, and more productive than I was when I was sleep-deprived. I deplore the mentality that believes that sleep is an indulgence minimized by Serious People.

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