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Circadian rhythms and their rigidity

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created January 11, 2013 at 11:01 AM

Are Circadian rhythms something personally and ultimately fixed? Meaning that each of us have a chronotype which cannot be changed? Or is it more a matter of adaptation, so if I just consistently stick to a certain sleeping schedule, my body will get used to it and that way I will achieve maximum possible amount of energy?
I would be glad to hear some personal trials and experiences, especially if an eveaning person had decided and tried to change his sleeping patterns to a morning type.

705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

(1013)

on January 19, 2013
at 03:24 PM

Interesting circadian rhythm site on what they are calling "chronobiology": http://www.b-society.org/research

Dbb6872f139877fe1a94aeb471baa7d1

on January 11, 2013
at 08:40 PM

Keep in mind I've been this way my whole life, back to when I was a toddler, according to my parents. Back when the only reason I had light was to read books; before I had a computer available 24/7.

1c7f48b2a066fb8fc5927ec31aa3e391

(175)

on January 11, 2013
at 08:10 PM

Wow, this is a very nice, detailed answer, but I think I lack enough technical knowledge to comprehend it fully. I will try though, but it needs proper time to be digested. Thank you.

705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

(1013)

on January 11, 2013
at 06:03 PM

I don't think it's fair to say your "natural" sleep cycle is 2am-10am when you are big on tech and low on natural sunlight. I'd call that an "unnatural" sleep cycle.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on January 11, 2013
at 01:53 PM

They are rigidly set but once a clinician see that they are off we can reset them by altering your chronobiology. The best way to see how off you are is an ASI, salvairy melatonin, IGF1, DHEA and Vitamin D level. This is how i do it. How I reset it is 100% dependent upon what I find out from your labs and your history. Read my answer below for the real nitty gritty to why this question maybe one of the better one's asked on PH's ever in my opinion. It gets to the epistemologic foundation of all human wellness. Plus one for asking it.

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Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on January 11, 2013
at 01:47 PM

Yes, you must pay attn to them. For evolution to work, a cell first must adapt to its environment. For any organism to function properly, it must control the timing of its biological functions. That is why all higher organisms, from plants to insects, reptiles, birds and mammals, and even some lower unicellular forms of life such as bacteria, have developed an internal biological clock over millions of years. In humans, the master clock of all the body???s biological clocks is located in the suprachiasmatic nucleus of the hypothalamus.

So the first thing a cell would see in an earth day is a period of day and night and the earth's magnetic field. It also has to eat to make energy and it also has to control its own cellular division. So in essence the circadian cycle has to ???yoke??? to the metabolic cycle and its growth cycle. When it is night time, the cell becomes more reduced chemically and electrically. The chemical reduction is measured in something call TAN. (total adenine nucleotides) The electrical reduction is measured by something called the zeta potential.

During a low redox time, cells are usually recycling their components using autophagy. During the day while energy is being made to explore the environment, the cell is more oxidized because of increased leakiness of the mitochondria. Another interesting coupling occurs between the circadian cycle with the cell cycle. They are linked via the PER 1 and PER 2 genes. PER 2 directly effects the cell cycle in mitosis.

Mitosis is the phase in the cell that occurs just before cell division to generate an offspring. The mammalian period 2 gene plays a key role in tumor growth in mice; mice with a mPER2 knockout show a significant increase in tumor development and a significant decrease in apoptosis (levee 19). This is thought to be caused by mPER2 circadian deregulation of common tumor suppression and cell cycle regulation genes, such as Cyclin D1, Cyclin A, Mdm-2, and Gadd45????, as well as the transcription factor c-myc, which is directly controlled by circadian regulators through E box-mediated reactions. This means that sleep is tied directly into to cell cycle functioning and directly into cell mediated immunity at some level. It appears that sleep directly effects the chronic diseases of aging and likely plays a role in all neolithic disease such as cancer development.

This information is foundational for anyone looking to reverse illness.

Many people here talk about IF and sleep. Few seem to understand they are both linked directly to the signals that control the circadian cycle. Those two signals are adenosine levels and alpha waves in the brain. These alpha waves come from magnetic cells in the SCN that are in complete resonance frequency with the earth's magnetic field. Remember chronobiology pays attn to this resonance to gain proper timing of chemical reactions. If timing is off the biology and the chemistry is also frame shifted and this leads to formation of a net positive charge in the body's systems and we call this inflammation. We can actually visualize this with a thermal camera, an EEG, and EMG as well. Few doctors, researchers or patients realize these connections. The earth's electron field resonates at a certain frequency and it set by the iron core and the ionosphere of the atmosphere. This is called Schumann resonance. The frequency of it is 7.83 hz at the earth's surface and the alpha waves at the SCN in all animals also resonantes at the exact same frequency because all life evolved connected to the earth's magnetic and electrical field. This epigenetic signal is codified by the cells that control circadian cycles. Just as we pay attn to light and day we also pay attn to the earth's zeta potential which is tied to geology of the planet and its weather cycles.

Few realize that the final common pathway for sleep and IFing are the AMPk pathway (monitors TAN levels), adenosine, and alpha wave generation of the SCN. When ATP breaks down as we live our life, it ends up in AMP after hydrolysis. Then it breaks down further to inosine, hypoxanthine and xanthine, all of which also stimulate adenosine to replenish ATP. This is what should happen if our SCN is fine tuned to light and alpha waves. Melatonin levels tell us how yoked that system is in a human. In modern life rarely is it yoked for another ubiquitous reason I will be covering this year in my EMF Rx.

Adenosine opens the door to sleep but the alpha waves created in the SCN have to be present at the right time to allow it recycle ATP and our proteins. Timing is critical. This is why circadian biology trumps all the biochemistry. Alpha waves are the guardian of circadian cycling in the brain. When it is off all biochemistry is off in every cell because this cycle is wired to the growth and metabolic cycle of all cells.They are linked via the PER 1 and PER 2 genes. PER 2 directly effects the cell cycle in mitosis. I hope this helps you understand how powerfully important this is. This is foundational biology for my Quilt document at my site; Where quantum mechanics and physics teach you biochemistry can be frameshifted very easily.......and why what is in the bio chem books......maybe a big fallacy.

1c7f48b2a066fb8fc5927ec31aa3e391

(175)

on January 11, 2013
at 08:10 PM

Wow, this is a very nice, detailed answer, but I think I lack enough technical knowledge to comprehend it fully. I will try though, but it needs proper time to be digested. Thank you.

2
Dbb6872f139877fe1a94aeb471baa7d1

on January 11, 2013
at 11:32 AM

I'm a teacher and have summers off, so I can tell you that my "natural" sleep cycle seems to be ~2am-~10am. It's probably because I'm big on tech and low on natural sunlight, though, but it seems to me that these rhythms are more likely to be either personal or genetic. You always hear about people who are "morning people" or "night owls" -- it seems like there should be more to it than pure preference.

FWIW, myself, my dad, and my husband are all night owls. We do our best work after the sun goes down. I'm really dragging from around 4pm-8pm, but after 8, I pick up and work on my crafts, exercise, etc. It has nothing to do with what or when I eat, when or how I sleep, whether or not I've worked that day, anything.

705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

(1013)

on January 11, 2013
at 06:03 PM

I don't think it's fair to say your "natural" sleep cycle is 2am-10am when you are big on tech and low on natural sunlight. I'd call that an "unnatural" sleep cycle.

Dbb6872f139877fe1a94aeb471baa7d1

on January 11, 2013
at 08:40 PM

Keep in mind I've been this way my whole life, back to when I was a toddler, according to my parents. Back when the only reason I had light was to read books; before I had a computer available 24/7.

1
4a814589662e7491fa36fbfd68a6bd72

on January 13, 2013
at 02:12 AM

this is very good. i"ve got a googe alert for "circadian." thus i snag anything and everything circadian. this post popped up :)

1
705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

on January 11, 2013
at 06:01 PM

I think this is an excellent question. I also I wonder if there are any true "night owls" or just a lot of really damaged people with off kilter circadian rhythms.

I was myself a rigid night owl from the ages of 12-30. I rarely went to bed until I was too tired to stay awake (2am) and almost only woke with alarms. Sort of like how I ate until I was too full to eat anymore. I only stayed awake through the day with the help of caffiene and sugar.

With a lot of discipline, I've been able to shift my pattern so that I now get sleepy at 10 and generally sleep from about 10:30 to sunrise. Now I am able to survive a day without stimulants. I am not sure if the shift results in maximum productivity though. I miss late night work, reading, or drinking sessions but my body could not keep up. I imagine I would slip back into my old sleep patterns if I let go of even some of the habits I altered to make this adjustment.

0
1a91ec126b2b4189539b028d2767e518

(320)

on January 11, 2013
at 11:59 PM

Actually there are two genes that have been discovered, one that accounts for Advance Sleep Phase Syndrome folks, or larks, and a gene for nights owls that have Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome. Evolution probably covers this: there was a need to have people in tribes that were up at any hour of the day or night to protect and warn the sleepers that an attack or threat was happening. So you had larks and night owls. Seems pretty simple to me.

I am night owl and have been since I was a teenager.

I have participated in sleep research studies. One interesting result was that my melatonin spike occurs four to five hours later than people on a standard day shift cycle. I cannot go to sleep at 10 or 11. The melatonin does not spike until 2:00 a.m. I sleep, just later than others. I have no problem with sleep. I sleep like a baby, just later. I also have the Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome gene, proven by their DNA testing at one study.

I get lots of sunlight and at night I do not get blasted by lots of white light. Things are very dimly lit at night, f.lux on the computer, etc.

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