5

votes

Is there a magic 'longevity' moment in Paleo?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 20, 2011 at 8:31 PM

Kurt Harris and Mark Sisson both argue that you don't need to eat 100% Paleo all the time. It seems to me if your goal is weight-loss that's pretty uncontroversial, while if you went Paleo for a specific illness you would probably go 100%.

In my case I came to Paleo for my heart and cholesterol numbers, confident that SAD was taking me to a heart-attack. I guess a lot of people on Paleohacks may have come to Paleo for the same reason.

So I want to ask opinions on whether there is some magic degree of fidelity for avoiding diseases of civilization, or some particular food that is absolutely non-negotiable for long-term heart outcomes.

My own guess is the absolute no-no-list is refined sugar and glutens, but I'm pretty new to Paleo so I want to hear from others.

Thanks!

2f54dbe892ec89b12d1db686568e885a

(919)

on May 22, 2011
at 08:09 PM

steak and chips

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 21, 2011
at 02:13 AM

natto is fermented soy.....the only way I recommend this is if they have osteoporosis and vascular calcifications but I always tell them to supplement K2 over natto. The dose I use is substantial as well. The K2 deficiency is the reason......but I really have no uses for soy

13db020c06c22c2f8b129034ddc013e4

(340)

on May 21, 2011
at 01:42 AM

@Dexter, Thanks for the recommendation.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:57 PM

Saintpuffy, Being in Ft Lauderdale you have a great Nephrologist that is totally paleo. Practices evolutionary medicine/low carb medicine. Dr Ken Tourgeman, Check the blog Nephropal

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:56 PM

Saintpuffy, Being in Ft Lauderdale you have a great Nephrologist that is totally paleo. Dr Tourgeman, Ken Check the blog Nephropal

13db020c06c22c2f8b129034ddc013e4

(340)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:35 PM

Harris has similar (breeding-related) concerns about fruits.

13db020c06c22c2f8b129034ddc013e4

(340)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:34 PM

@Dexter, TYP is a great resource. Sounds like he doesn't like n6's.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:33 PM

Go to trackyourplaque but no wheat or grains, sprouted or not. Period. The current wheat and other grains are dwarf mutant strains of old wheat strains...like einkorn which I believe has 14 chromosomes and the dwarf mutant strains we have today have over 20,000 chromosomes. Our bodies have not evolved to handle it in any form in the last 10000 years.

13db020c06c22c2f8b129034ddc013e4

(340)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:32 PM

thank you, merchand-mercier :)

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:31 PM

Go to trackyourplaque but no wheat or grains, sprouted or not. Period. The current wheat and other grains are dwarf mutant strains of old wheat strains...like einkorn which I believe has 13 chromosomes and the mutant strains we have today have over 20,000 cromosomes. Out bodies have not evolved to handle it in any form in the last 10000 years.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:28 PM

Soy in any form makes estrogen in males makes them well.....and in females it gives them "persistent sexual arrousal syndrome" See FTA http://freetheanimal.com/2011/03/news-flash-vegan-soy-consumption-gives-you-a-limp-dick.html

E7dc4f2e3998906dd3213973a3c10d50

on May 20, 2011
at 11:24 PM

Not even tamari or natto?

91219405abedbfd400ce00dea242a00f

(1044)

on May 20, 2011
at 10:07 PM

Interesting, what's his consensus on sprouted grains, if you know?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 20, 2011
at 10:03 PM

No soy period..

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 20, 2011
at 10:02 PM

You don't have to do it all the time......just learn to build longevity levees around your cells to keep you fit

94e89cc96d5a58b71f36b369b8082999

(767)

on May 20, 2011
at 10:00 PM

Agreed. If you've got an allergy or medical disorder, I don't think anybody needs to tell you to stay away from those foods that aggravate your condition.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on May 20, 2011
at 09:40 PM

Well, though if you're a celiac, then there doesn't seem to be any hormetic effect on exposing yourself to gluten.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on May 20, 2011
at 09:39 PM

how about soy sauce, does doc davis okay soy sauce or gluten-free soy sauce?

E7dc4f2e3998906dd3213973a3c10d50

on May 20, 2011
at 09:17 PM

This is a really great question. Thank you for asking it. I also think we as a community would do well to remember that people come to diets for all sorts of different reasons, so it does little good to be dogmatic about diet. This kind of question, about lowest-common-denominators, is the perfect sort of thing IMO.

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4 Answers

3
94e89cc96d5a58b71f36b369b8082999

on May 20, 2011
at 09:21 PM

There definitely isn't a general, identifiable tipping point; like everything else in life, the change occurs at the margin.

If you're exercising regularly and eating a clean paleo-style diet for 90% of your meals, you'll never have to worry about the "diseases of civilization".

I also don't buy into the idea that any food is "non-negotiable". That implies that eating it even once a year will irrevocably damage your health. Our bodies are not that fragile. You could probably smoke crack laced with High Fructose Corn Syrup and pure wheat gluten once a year and not die a single day earlier.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on May 20, 2011
at 09:40 PM

Well, though if you're a celiac, then there doesn't seem to be any hormetic effect on exposing yourself to gluten.

94e89cc96d5a58b71f36b369b8082999

(767)

on May 20, 2011
at 10:00 PM

Agreed. If you've got an allergy or medical disorder, I don't think anybody needs to tell you to stay away from those foods that aggravate your condition.

2
Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

on May 21, 2011
at 12:23 AM

another strong NO should be placed on seed oils: corn, soy, sunflower oils and also margarine have to be avoided at all times, and of course any trans oil is poison!

1
06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 20, 2011
at 08:44 PM

For heart healthy paleo/low carb blogging, I follow Dr William Davis at

http://www.trackyourplaque.com

Non negotiable items on the no list: No oatmeal, no refined oils like soybean, safflower, canola, corn, margarine, anything hydrogenated, no store bought salad dressings. No sugar free anything, no soy anything.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 20, 2011
at 10:03 PM

No soy period..

13db020c06c22c2f8b129034ddc013e4

(340)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:34 PM

@Dexter, TYP is a great resource. Sounds like he doesn't like n6's.

91219405abedbfd400ce00dea242a00f

(1044)

on May 20, 2011
at 10:07 PM

Interesting, what's his consensus on sprouted grains, if you know?

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:28 PM

Soy in any form makes estrogen in males makes them well.....and in females it gives them "persistent sexual arrousal syndrome" See FTA http://freetheanimal.com/2011/03/news-flash-vegan-soy-consumption-gives-you-a-limp-dick.html

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on May 20, 2011
at 09:39 PM

how about soy sauce, does doc davis okay soy sauce or gluten-free soy sauce?

13db020c06c22c2f8b129034ddc013e4

(340)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:35 PM

Harris has similar (breeding-related) concerns about fruits.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:33 PM

Go to trackyourplaque but no wheat or grains, sprouted or not. Period. The current wheat and other grains are dwarf mutant strains of old wheat strains...like einkorn which I believe has 14 chromosomes and the dwarf mutant strains we have today have over 20,000 chromosomes. Our bodies have not evolved to handle it in any form in the last 10000 years.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 21, 2011
at 02:13 AM

natto is fermented soy.....the only way I recommend this is if they have osteoporosis and vascular calcifications but I always tell them to supplement K2 over natto. The dose I use is substantial as well. The K2 deficiency is the reason......but I really have no uses for soy

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:56 PM

Saintpuffy, Being in Ft Lauderdale you have a great Nephrologist that is totally paleo. Dr Tourgeman, Ken Check the blog Nephropal

E7dc4f2e3998906dd3213973a3c10d50

on May 20, 2011
at 11:24 PM

Not even tamari or natto?

13db020c06c22c2f8b129034ddc013e4

(340)

on May 21, 2011
at 01:42 AM

@Dexter, Thanks for the recommendation.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:31 PM

Go to trackyourplaque but no wheat or grains, sprouted or not. Period. The current wheat and other grains are dwarf mutant strains of old wheat strains...like einkorn which I believe has 13 chromosomes and the mutant strains we have today have over 20,000 cromosomes. Out bodies have not evolved to handle it in any form in the last 10000 years.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 20, 2011
at 11:57 PM

Saintpuffy, Being in Ft Lauderdale you have a great Nephrologist that is totally paleo. Practices evolutionary medicine/low carb medicine. Dr Ken Tourgeman, Check the blog Nephropal

0
742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on May 20, 2011
at 09:56 PM

I don't eat anything that has more than two ingredients. In other words, stay away from packaged or processed food and that would be enough to put you ahead of many.

2f54dbe892ec89b12d1db686568e885a

(919)

on May 22, 2011
at 08:09 PM

steak and chips

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