9

votes

Nonexistent sex drive.

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 07, 2012 at 2:31 AM

Apologies for the length. Long time lurker, first time post. I am a 22 year old female, and I have been paleo for a year. I have been in a very long relationship with my excruciatingly gorgeous boyfriend, yet I have for the past few months had trouble having any interest in sex. It's been bothering me enough to embarrassingly turn to PaleoHacks, yet I haven't found much guidance.

Edit Let's clarify my diet and my typical food intake. Morning: 4 slices of thick bacon, 3 eggs (onions, peppers, garlic) cooked in ALL of the leftover grease. Ketchup, 2c coffee. Followed by a snack, either an orange or Fage full-fat greek yogurt and raw honey. About 1c of yogurt, 1 tbs of honey.

Mid-day/Evening: Varies with Whole foods hot bar. Sometimes salmon sushi, often chicken thighs and spinach/broccoli, meats cooked in coconut milk, sausage, and other greasy meats. I go home and eat my 90% dark chocolate from Lindt. Drink some green tea with jasmine. Sometimes eat larabars. I often eat white rice, white potatoes, and sweet potatoes, so I do NOT stay under 50g of carbs. If I notice I am low carb, I eat them. Recently I've been stacking my plate with broccoli, carrots, and salad-things.

I'm a tiny [small frame, 5'0"] 97 lbs, and I probably eat about 1,400-1,500 cal a day. I eat until I have a food baby, okay? Every time. My weight is genetic, we're all this small. My grandmother and mother are smaller than me, and look pregnant. Idk. I have a sweet tooth, and I give into it in "Paleo" ways, such as dark chocolate and paleo baked goods. I am lactose intolerant and never indulge in grains. I take fish oil supplements, and drink a LOT of black coffee daily. Possibly around 2 "Klean Kantines" worth a day?

I just started crossfit [1mo], and otherwise run short distances for fun. Before that, I did StrongLifts. I'm a science student, and have a heavy workload, which often stresses me out. I don't have eyes for any other men, either. My boyfriend attempts to be romantic and I just can't psychologically get into it. It's extremely upsetting. When I was on the SAD/vegetarian diet, this was not an issue, even with my chub. Now, I seem to be fixated on my little stomach puff and feel self-conscious and can't get into anything.

Okay, sorry for the novel. Any advice is extremely appreciated.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Thanks Kirsten. I think the hormone level advice has been the most useful thus far.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on February 07, 2013
at 03:29 PM

Zinc picolinate was recommended by someone else on his site, with references. That's the form I take.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 07, 2013
at 10:30 AM

Just seen another zinc type mentioned; Albion chelated zinc, “which doesn’t need stomach acid to ionize it” http://paleohacks.com/questions/95488/long-term-zinc-usage/95493#95493 have you come across that one before? Glycinate looks to be the most common Albion chelate but they do Arginate as well http://www.albionminerals.com/human-nutrition/products-trade/traacs

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 07, 2013
at 09:48 AM

Hi Dragonfly, i was just doing some searching re supplementing with zinc & i read a few of your answers to various posts. Just trying to decide on a good zinc form, do you have a preference between 'zinc picolinate' and OptiZinc? Those look to be the top two choices? hope you see this. thanks

80890193d74240cab6dda920665bfb6c

(1528)

on June 01, 2012
at 05:11 AM

I really doubt this "coffee causes 8 times insulin resistance" statement, grace. Because the simplest search of pubmed turns up about 20 studies that offer the opposite conclusion, such as this one from Feb. 2011 - "In this cross-sectional study, caffeinated coffee was positively related to insulin sensitivity and decaffeinated coffee was favourably related to measures of beta cell function." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21046357

9265668ccda89e3007dcef4409aa3381

(103)

on May 09, 2012
at 11:50 AM

How do you manage to have time to make 4 slices of bacon every morning?

D3495cd9e3e7173f24e1dbee40774573

on April 16, 2012
at 06:57 PM

I also had major improvements in this regard following Ray Peat's advice.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on March 13, 2012
at 06:40 PM

I'd recommend that you try to address it by eating oysters a few times a week instead of taking a zinc supplement so you're less likely to create a zinc:copper imbalance.

47eb0aebcf855257b400c219accc57ee

(10)

on March 13, 2012
at 06:37 PM

I'm taking Metagenics' Zinc A.G. (glycinate), 20 mg twice daily. It's worked wonders for my skin, but it hasn't increased my sex drive (lower than it used to be in pre-Paleo days).

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 13, 2012
at 06:15 PM

There's always one. Look, not trying to be rude, but I came to paleohacks for more scientific speculations, not for anecdotes I could have gotten from my mom had I turned to her with this issue. I bring my private issue publicly because I care about this aspect of our relationship deeply, thank you.

97ffbac59e88bdff6495d0a9b6f70ff7

(555)

on March 10, 2012
at 08:51 PM

@Poisson: Thanks, so you implemented most of the guidelines described in the first post and saw a dramatic change in sex drive? I, unfortunately, am a teen with a waning sex drive (and documented low testosterone). I've been trying to deal with it for a while now. I may ask a question here describing my general background and asking the community for general advice (long story short: celiac diagnosed after 2 years of suffering of mainly non-digestive issues, little recovery after gluten free, documented low testosterone, and currently on the SCD diet with some very solid progress).

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 09, 2012
at 12:24 PM

@collegeCaveman: Although much of his diet comes from raw food (there some exceptions - for example on sugar beyond the fact that it is not nutrient dense), the emphasis is different. Paleohackers seem to prefer starch to fructose, don't emphasis calcium and reduced iron absorption like Ray Peat. And these differences lead to quite different diet in practice.

97ffbac59e88bdff6495d0a9b6f70ff7

(555)

on March 07, 2012
at 11:26 PM

Hey just curious, why did you preface your post by saying that Ray Peat may be controversial on here? What makes him anti-paleohacks?

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on March 07, 2012
at 08:03 PM

Thanks Dragonfly. I was surprised that I like the smoked oysters since I am so repulsed by the other superfoods, like liver. I have been chowing down on them. I just can't look at em.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on March 07, 2012
at 07:03 PM

Hey Senneth~ I think *many* folk who have eschewed red meat for one reason or another may be deficient. I was taking NOW zinc picolinate 50 mg and have dropped down to the 30 mg NOW L-OptiZinc as my level has increased (per a zinc tally test.) If I recall correctly, a can of oysters has ~72 mg of zinc. I think aiming for 50 mg/day is fine to regain sufficiency (making sure to balance copper intake) and then maintaining on 20-30 mg. If you can eat more oysters,then go for it! YMMV...

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on March 07, 2012
at 05:35 PM

Dragonfly -I know I have teased you about always suggesting Zinc for everything, but it turns out I am zinc deficient!! Who knows I may start suggesting it too!! I have a compromised gut and have started eating smoked oysters once or twice a week for the zinc. Do you think I would benefit from adding a supplement of it? Pills or is there a kind that can be absorbed on the skin? brands? Thanks so much!!

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 05:29 PM

In men, studies show that having sex with a new partner increases sex hormone levels. I wouldn't be surprised if the same happens in women. Or if this particular relationship in question has lasted long enough for her to have hypothetically given birth and weaned a child already. For some women, LTRs past that require less reliance on "chemistry" for sex. The African Aka tribal people view sex as a sacred duty and have it every day whether they want to or not, which probably allows them to maintain their somewhat-monogamous marriage system.

Fc64db6a555559762432d503a1dbad19

(1478)

on March 07, 2012
at 03:48 PM

When I say body issues I don't mean the little bit of belly fat we all stress about. I mean how you feel in your body. There may be some deeper issue you are not aware of. For me I had a lot of fear associates with sex because we had tried and it didn't work for me so I was always afraid. What worked for me was to look into tantric sex. Start slowly and rebuild trust with one another. You need to know that you guys can mess around and not feel pressured to have intercourse. Rebuild that trust and get your confidence back. Start slowly like just giving one another a massage.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on March 07, 2012
at 12:17 PM

Btw ur hilarious. Hang in there... Yeah I know heretical and I once would've IV'd Peets coffee into my veins! Now I drink it 2 times max per week... GOOD LUCK I HOPE U RETURN TO UR OLD HAPPY AND HORNY SELF!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on March 07, 2012
at 12:14 PM

Yeah I know heretical and I once would've IV'd Peets coffee into my veins! Now I drink it 2 times max per week... GOOD LUCK I HOPE U RETURN TO UR OLD HAPPY AND HORNY SELF. hang in there!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on March 07, 2012
at 12:10 PM

Did any day anything about coffee?? There is a discussion at Paleo digest one of the yahoo groups that coffee causes an EIGHT fold increase in insulin resistance (read: reason for belly fat for a lot of folks). Cortisol from caffeine can cause resistance to fat burning and especially on the belly, hips and elsewhere. Have you tried not relying on caffeine?

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 07, 2012
at 12:05 PM

@Korion: From my current understanding, the Peat diet doesn't necessarily mean you have to reduce muscle meat, just that you have to complement it with something (at the same absorption time) to change the amino acid profile - in theory aminos such as tryptophan would then be metabolized differently due to the effect of the others entering at the same time. In practice though, just eating less of that and more of gelatin...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on March 07, 2012
at 12:03 PM

I would concur with all of Melissa's thoughts and in addition to a hormone panel, consider the salivary adrenal stress index which measured cortisol 4times in a day. The belly 'puff' and tecent change in drive sounds like high cortisol, high insulin resistance and estrogen dominance (and thyroid). I used to do more crossfire and endurance training but all is very stressful if there are other stressors. Cortisol that is wonky can cause many of the things you list... This might help and google Metametrix adrenal http://www.metametrix.com/files/test-menu/patient-briefs/Adrenal-Stress-PB.pdf

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on March 07, 2012
at 11:20 AM

I reduced my muscle meat intake dramatically and plan to eat less and less of it. At the same time I'm increasing bone broth frequency and gelatin intake. For me it definitely helps!

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on March 07, 2012
at 09:32 AM

You can do a zinc tally taste test (google it & search on this site) and order a 25 (OH)D test kit from the Vitamin D Council. No docs involved.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on March 07, 2012
at 09:12 AM

Zinc first made my libido crazy, now it does nothing. Carbs help, but overall I believe this is hypothyroidism that you have to treat with gelatin (bone broth), carbohydrates from fruit and/or potatoes and less physical stress. You might wanna try out selenium and later on iodine too. And reduce PUFA intake.

284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on March 07, 2012
at 07:00 AM

sorry thats "spinal extension" '

284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on March 07, 2012
at 05:33 AM

you can find tons of videos for the exercise but it generally works with any spinal flexion where your thighs are approaching parallel to the floor.

284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on March 07, 2012
at 05:31 AM

shameless bombastic promoters of not-extraordinarily effective supplements. Biotest, the parent company, has the most exquisitely brotastic adverts for their products (not unique in the industry but exceptional all the same)

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 04:47 AM

What is "supp shills" ? And the video was removed, so I am looking into it now. The thread, however, was hilarious..

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 04:39 AM

Nina harley makes me lol. I do exercise the organs! It works, in that aspect. I am just having trouble bridging that end to the other end where two are involved. But, I absolutely appreciate you saying that it's not in my head, like a lot. Dork or not, it was very helpful and I will keep it in mind.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 04:35 AM

It's probably true in our culture that men masturbate too much (reduces sensitivity in excess) and women too little.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 04:23 AM

Zinc and D3, got it. Man, maybe I shouldn't have asked. Now I have to not be lazy and call doctors and go places and EVERYTHING. Le sigh, first world problems. Thanks for your help, dragonfly!!!

Ef228708abd5f082f633b1cd1d64eee1

(892)

on March 07, 2012
at 04:15 AM

Might be worth getting your zinc levels checked... *shrug* good luck, don't give up!

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 03:52 AM

you can still have sex without a sex drive, though it's annoying and you might need some KY Jelly, it might get your body back into things.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:50 AM

Tell me more about the coffee thing, if you have sources or any additional information. I eat enough, I am not going to binge, I eat to satisfy my appetite. But, my coffee lust is otherworldly, likely addictive. If melissa suspects hormones, then there may be a possible link?

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:47 AM

No pregnancy here. You have to have sex for that to happen. I get regular cycles, and I eat a lot of fat. I've edited my diet info, to clarify. I don't have body issues, I just don't think my tiny belly puff is attractive! I didn't say that made me unattractive lol.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:45 AM

Thanks for your help, melissa. I do not have any PCOS symptoms, that I know of. I've never tried liver, but if it will help I will absolutely give it a shot

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 03:40 AM

Also some people find that if low estrogen is the issue, phytoestrogens, which are normally avoided on paleo, can help. Beer and soy contain them, for example. It still also could be caloric balance and stress issues, as those do affect hormone levels.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 03:38 AM

The first step is seeing a doc who can give you a hormonal panel. In the meantime, eating those hormonal system supporting foods like liver, egg yolks, roe, etc. can help. It's possible that what you have is subtle enough that it might not show up on a hormonal panel, though it can still be an issue. Paleo Pepper (http://paleopepper.com/) has written about her struggles with dryness, though hers are caused by PCOS. Do you have any PCOS symptoms?

427c8cbb9c2492d74b887fc5cf7a8ce0

(432)

on March 07, 2012
at 03:29 AM

I meant to say fats not starches ;).

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:24 AM

Now, if it's hormones, this would be a realm I am not familiar with nor do I do enough reading about. How would I know, in this isolated instance of low sex drive, and how can I treat it?

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:21 AM

Meh. I eat fine, when hungry. Lots of calories, for my small frame. I am confident the amount isn't the issue, while the body image can piggyback on the issue itself, it's not the cause. I feel lovely often and it's not enough.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:19 AM

Melissa. Thank the paleo gods for you. Dryness, has definitely been a frustrating god damn issue. And, when it happens, it makes me feel awful. It MUST be hormones, because everything you've said thus far has been much more spot on than any of the men who seem to be fixating on my weight thing. I do eat pleasurable foods, and the "mood" effect seems blunted, and short lived.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:16 AM

I got chu. If I didn't think it was important to point out, I wouldn't have typed it up there. But I was trying to highlight the fact that on my SAD diet I was "vigorous" and definitely very chunky, but now I am more muscular save for my bottom belly, and I fixate on it. I don't feel it is enough for me to push my boyfriend away entirely (sexually), though. I'm thinking chemicals, here.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 07, 2012
at 03:13 AM

Yeah well Mayo clinic and about half a dozen other caloric needs calculators disagree. Fitday also says that potatoes are extremely high in fat. And besides, you want a bit of a surplus, that indicates a favorable environment for pregnancy, not just barely getting by. Ideally we want to be consuming a bit more than we need and then dispose of it through thermogenesis.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 03:03 AM

maybe you are using more calories than you think you are?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 03:02 AM

I would make sure to eat things that are pleasurable to eat. I feel like an anhedonic diet is kind of bad for libido, but maybe that's just my personal experience. Nothing like a meal with things like beef tartare, oysters, bone marrow, raw hamachi, salmon roe, pate, rilettes + wine to get me in the mood. The dryness would be an interesting thing because if during foreplay you are not getting wet, that might point to the issue being more hormonal than physiological because studies show that should be an automatic reaction to any kind of sexual stimuli.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 02:55 AM

I eat sufficient, maybe more than needed. I know this due to fitday, and MDA calculations. I have a small frame. I am 5', tiny everywhere except for my stomach. I do not exercise that often, and yes my body fat does look fine but I personally feel that I am too small for it to look good. Fine is fine, but good is better IMO.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 02:52 AM

No pill, exact 28-day cycle. Never had any period issues, once had "down there" trouble, both gynos said I was eating too many carbs (was a veggie.) never had it again, but it is dry after my period. I go to a counselor now, for anger issues. I am doing great yay! But this has been going on while I look better than I used to, yet I was having much better sex. I've used fitday, that's how I know my approximate calories, haha. And I like the sweetness of the treats, but a lot of the "bready" treats are due to texture. I definitely need to eat more fish, so I will experiment with that

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 02:49 AM

I sleep fine. I can sleep in or wake up early without difficulty. You may be right about hormones, but I'm not sure if that is the reason alone

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 02:48 AM

I am not. I do not take any medication.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on March 07, 2012
at 02:36 AM

..are you on the pill?

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16 Answers

9
D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on March 07, 2012
at 04:29 AM

I feel like such a dork posting this - but while you get the hormonal thing examined, you could maybe work on exercising your major sex organ (your brain!) and figure out what makes you turned on at this juncture in your life. I think it helps to just lay the grooves for the future, you know? And I'd do a lot of that thinking/feeling alone. Ever heard or read about women (married with kids stage in their life women) who say that scheduling sex got them back in the rhythm of actually having spontaneous, more frequent sex? Sex begets sex. So maybe treat yourself to some sexy. Go channel (or google) some Betty Dodson or Nina Hartley. IfyaknowwhatImean.

I am NOT saying this is in your head. At all. I'm just a big believer in behavioral modification complimenting all kinds of other concrete things. Can't hurt, might help.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 04:39 AM

Nina harley makes me lol. I do exercise the organs! It works, in that aspect. I am just having trouble bridging that end to the other end where two are involved. But, I absolutely appreciate you saying that it's not in my head, like a lot. Dork or not, it was very helpful and I will keep it in mind.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 04:35 AM

It's probably true in our culture that men masturbate too much (reduces sensitivity in excess) and women too little.

7
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on March 07, 2012
at 03:12 AM

"Now, I seem to be fixated on my little stomach puff and feel self-conscious and can't get into anything." If your fixated on this then its likely your own self image/self esteem that is holding you back. An awareness of your body is great, but beware seeing each and every little DIFFERENCE as an IMPERFECTION. Get comfortable with yourself. Many women (and men) feel renewed vigor and sexuality from exercise and improved body body comp. The self confidence is the on switch...for you it seems like the extra awareness has become more of an obsession and resulted in the opposite reaction. I dunno the cure, but just pointing out a possible problem.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:16 AM

I got chu. If I didn't think it was important to point out, I wouldn't have typed it up there. But I was trying to highlight the fact that on my SAD diet I was "vigorous" and definitely very chunky, but now I am more muscular save for my bottom belly, and I fixate on it. I don't feel it is enough for me to push my boyfriend away entirely (sexually), though. I'm thinking chemicals, here.

5
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on March 07, 2012
at 04:14 AM

I am wondering about a zinc deficiency. Also D3. Worth checking out. Both needed for hormonal balance.

I got both dialed in and my libido & juiciness is back (and I'm 49, FWIW.)

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 04:23 AM

Zinc and D3, got it. Man, maybe I shouldn't have asked. Now I have to not be lazy and call doctors and go places and EVERYTHING. Le sigh, first world problems. Thanks for your help, dragonfly!!!

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on March 07, 2012
at 09:32 AM

You can do a zinc tally taste test (google it & search on this site) and order a 25 (OH)D test kit from the Vitamin D Council. No docs involved.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on March 07, 2012
at 07:03 PM

Hey Senneth~ I think *many* folk who have eschewed red meat for one reason or another may be deficient. I was taking NOW zinc picolinate 50 mg and have dropped down to the 30 mg NOW L-OptiZinc as my level has increased (per a zinc tally test.) If I recall correctly, a can of oysters has ~72 mg of zinc. I think aiming for 50 mg/day is fine to regain sufficiency (making sure to balance copper intake) and then maintaining on 20-30 mg. If you can eat more oysters,then go for it! YMMV...

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on March 07, 2012
at 08:03 PM

Thanks Dragonfly. I was surprised that I like the smoked oysters since I am so repulsed by the other superfoods, like liver. I have been chowing down on them. I just can't look at em.

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on March 07, 2012
at 05:35 PM

Dragonfly -I know I have teased you about always suggesting Zinc for everything, but it turns out I am zinc deficient!! Who knows I may start suggesting it too!! I have a compromised gut and have started eating smoked oysters once or twice a week for the zinc. Do you think I would benefit from adding a supplement of it? Pills or is there a kind that can be absorbed on the skin? brands? Thanks so much!!

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on February 07, 2013
at 03:29 PM

Zinc picolinate was recommended by someone else on his site, with references. That's the form I take.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 07, 2013
at 09:48 AM

Hi Dragonfly, i was just doing some searching re supplementing with zinc & i read a few of your answers to various posts. Just trying to decide on a good zinc form, do you have a preference between 'zinc picolinate' and OptiZinc? Those look to be the top two choices? hope you see this. thanks

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 07, 2013
at 10:30 AM

Just seen another zinc type mentioned; Albion chelated zinc, “which doesn’t need stomach acid to ionize it” http://paleohacks.com/questions/95488/long-term-zinc-usage/95493#95493 have you come across that one before? Glycinate looks to be the most common Albion chelate but they do Arginate as well http://www.albionminerals.com/human-nutrition/products-trade/traacs

5
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 02:45 AM

Are you on the pill? Is your cycle normal? How often do you work out? Have you plugged a typical day into Cron O Meter or Fitday and seen any low numbers for micronutrients (like mg)? Maybe too personal, so you can ignore if you want, but do you have dryness down there?

Another weird question, but might be relevant, but do you find the food you eat (not the desserts and treats) pleasurable to eat?

I would see a doctor and also consider seeing a counselor at your school. Yes, food and fitness can affect libido, but so can stress and body-image issues.

I would also ditch the fish oil and start eating some reasonable amount of fish instead. I have personally experienced weird hormonal effects from fish oil. I'm not sure why, Chris Masterjohn thought it might have to do with my particular polymorphisms for fatty acid metabolism, where EPA might interrupt arachidonic acid turnover for me, but either way, it never ceases to surprise me how often supplements CAUSE problems instead of fixing them.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 02:52 AM

No pill, exact 28-day cycle. Never had any period issues, once had "down there" trouble, both gynos said I was eating too many carbs (was a veggie.) never had it again, but it is dry after my period. I go to a counselor now, for anger issues. I am doing great yay! But this has been going on while I look better than I used to, yet I was having much better sex. I've used fitday, that's how I know my approximate calories, haha. And I like the sweetness of the treats, but a lot of the "bready" treats are due to texture. I definitely need to eat more fish, so I will experiment with that

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:24 AM

Now, if it's hormones, this would be a realm I am not familiar with nor do I do enough reading about. How would I know, in this isolated instance of low sex drive, and how can I treat it?

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:19 AM

Melissa. Thank the paleo gods for you. Dryness, has definitely been a frustrating god damn issue. And, when it happens, it makes me feel awful. It MUST be hormones, because everything you've said thus far has been much more spot on than any of the men who seem to be fixating on my weight thing. I do eat pleasurable foods, and the "mood" effect seems blunted, and short lived.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:45 AM

Thanks for your help, melissa. I do not have any PCOS symptoms, that I know of. I've never tried liver, but if it will help I will absolutely give it a shot

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 03:02 AM

I would make sure to eat things that are pleasurable to eat. I feel like an anhedonic diet is kind of bad for libido, but maybe that's just my personal experience. Nothing like a meal with things like beef tartare, oysters, bone marrow, raw hamachi, salmon roe, pate, rilettes + wine to get me in the mood. The dryness would be an interesting thing because if during foreplay you are not getting wet, that might point to the issue being more hormonal than physiological because studies show that should be an automatic reaction to any kind of sexual stimuli.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 03:40 AM

Also some people find that if low estrogen is the issue, phytoestrogens, which are normally avoided on paleo, can help. Beer and soy contain them, for example. It still also could be caloric balance and stress issues, as those do affect hormone levels.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 03:38 AM

The first step is seeing a doc who can give you a hormonal panel. In the meantime, eating those hormonal system supporting foods like liver, egg yolks, roe, etc. can help. It's possible that what you have is subtle enough that it might not show up on a hormonal panel, though it can still be an issue. Paleo Pepper (http://paleopepper.com/) has written about her struggles with dryness, though hers are caused by PCOS. Do you have any PCOS symptoms?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on March 07, 2012
at 12:03 PM

I would concur with all of Melissa's thoughts and in addition to a hormone panel, consider the salivary adrenal stress index which measured cortisol 4times in a day. The belly 'puff' and tecent change in drive sounds like high cortisol, high insulin resistance and estrogen dominance (and thyroid). I used to do more crossfire and endurance training but all is very stressful if there are other stressors. Cortisol that is wonky can cause many of the things you list... This might help and google Metametrix adrenal http://www.metametrix.com/files/test-menu/patient-briefs/Adrenal-Stress-PB.pdf

4
Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 07, 2012
at 09:13 AM

I know Ray Peat might seem a bit controversial on here, but I recommend you read his guidelines. For me, it upgraded my sex drive as if I was a teen again within a very short time. I think his diet fits the Paleo framework nicely in many ways, but it is more specific and requires a few adjustments. So unless you have alternatives, I recommend you experiment for a short term and see if it makes a difference.

As I said, the adjustments can be very very specific (eg., high importance of what food to combine, why you should favor milk/cheese over yogurt, and what to do if you are cow milk intolerant). If you are going to do it, be sure to read in full both the general idea and the recommendations for the implementation:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=419742

http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/29/ray-peats-brain-building-a-foundation-for-better-understandi.html

Note that I got all results without doing the thyroid supplementation. I pretty much did all the rest in detail. And I continued with the general Paleo recommendations including liver for Vitamin A.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on March 07, 2012
at 11:20 AM

I reduced my muscle meat intake dramatically and plan to eat less and less of it. At the same time I'm increasing bone broth frequency and gelatin intake. For me it definitely helps!

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 07, 2012
at 12:05 PM

@Korion: From my current understanding, the Peat diet doesn't necessarily mean you have to reduce muscle meat, just that you have to complement it with something (at the same absorption time) to change the amino acid profile - in theory aminos such as tryptophan would then be metabolized differently due to the effect of the others entering at the same time. In practice though, just eating less of that and more of gelatin...

97ffbac59e88bdff6495d0a9b6f70ff7

(555)

on March 07, 2012
at 11:26 PM

Hey just curious, why did you preface your post by saying that Ray Peat may be controversial on here? What makes him anti-paleohacks?

97ffbac59e88bdff6495d0a9b6f70ff7

(555)

on March 10, 2012
at 08:51 PM

@Poisson: Thanks, so you implemented most of the guidelines described in the first post and saw a dramatic change in sex drive? I, unfortunately, am a teen with a waning sex drive (and documented low testosterone). I've been trying to deal with it for a while now. I may ask a question here describing my general background and asking the community for general advice (long story short: celiac diagnosed after 2 years of suffering of mainly non-digestive issues, little recovery after gluten free, documented low testosterone, and currently on the SCD diet with some very solid progress).

Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on March 09, 2012
at 12:24 PM

@collegeCaveman: Although much of his diet comes from raw food (there some exceptions - for example on sugar beyond the fact that it is not nutrient dense), the emphasis is different. Paleohackers seem to prefer starch to fructose, don't emphasis calcium and reduced iron absorption like Ray Peat. And these differences lead to quite different diet in practice.

D3495cd9e3e7173f24e1dbee40774573

on April 16, 2012
at 06:57 PM

I also had major improvements in this regard following Ray Peat's advice.

4
37c83b0e565455eccdab474a7572552a

on March 07, 2012
at 06:40 AM

Maybe you've just lost interest in him as a mate.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 05:29 PM

In men, studies show that having sex with a new partner increases sex hormone levels. I wouldn't be surprised if the same happens in women. Or if this particular relationship in question has lasted long enough for her to have hypothetically given birth and weaned a child already. For some women, LTRs past that require less reliance on "chemistry" for sex. The African Aka tribal people view sex as a sacred duty and have it every day whether they want to or not, which probably allows them to maintain their somewhat-monogamous marriage system.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 13, 2012
at 06:15 PM

There's always one. Look, not trying to be rude, but I came to paleohacks for more scientific speculations, not for anecdotes I could have gotten from my mom had I turned to her with this issue. I bring my private issue publicly because I care about this aspect of our relationship deeply, thank you.

4
Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 07, 2012
at 02:52 AM

You are likely eating too little and exercising too much (for your caloric intake). Insufficient caloric intake can produce a condition called amenorrhea, where your reproductive system shuts down and you stop menstruating because you can't exactly support a baby if you don't have enough energy available, and by the standard of pretty much any caloric needs calculator you aren't getting enough. People lose their sex drive without enough calories, naturally. You will need to eat more food if you continue to do crossfit, or even in general. I think that the difference is explained by the added exercise mostly. Paleo diets tend to make people reduce their caloric intake but so do vegetarian diets, I don't know what you were getting before. That will also probably help you cope with stress because exercise on a low calorie diet is pretty stressful. Also magnesium will help you.

When you say that your diet is high in calories yet you aren't getting enough calories that suggests an eating disorder. You say you have a chub and you are 97 pounds. That is hard to believe. And I'm sure even if you have a bit of body fat it looks fine.

Best of luck.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 07, 2012
at 03:13 AM

Yeah well Mayo clinic and about half a dozen other caloric needs calculators disagree. Fitday also says that potatoes are extremely high in fat. And besides, you want a bit of a surplus, that indicates a favorable environment for pregnancy, not just barely getting by. Ideally we want to be consuming a bit more than we need and then dispose of it through thermogenesis.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:21 AM

Meh. I eat fine, when hungry. Lots of calories, for my small frame. I am confident the amount isn't the issue, while the body image can piggyback on the issue itself, it's not the cause. I feel lovely often and it's not enough.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 02:55 AM

I eat sufficient, maybe more than needed. I know this due to fitday, and MDA calculations. I have a small frame. I am 5', tiny everywhere except for my stomach. I do not exercise that often, and yes my body fat does look fine but I personally feel that I am too small for it to look good. Fine is fine, but good is better IMO.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 03:03 AM

maybe you are using more calories than you think you are?

3
D811808d3bfa5aebc7a1bd971fb6375b

on March 07, 2012
at 06:55 AM

Heya weenie (lawlz) - I'm not going to suggest anything other than yoga, since everyone else has pretty much covered it. You mentioned stress is a big thing in your life due to classes and probably the low-level stress your belly poof causes you and all that. So, yoga. That helps me sh*tloads. I'm an entirely different person with yoga. It's calming and meditative, takes you away from the stress so your mind and body can relax into enjoying life (and sex). (Also helps with anger issues, which you also mentioned. Several studies have shown that yoga helps to re-wire your brain, calming down angry and type A personalities.)

Another thing that helped me that would probably help you is thinking about stress logically. Byron Katie's books are amazing for dissecting what exactly is stressing you out and how exactly to knock it off. Hope that helps, in addition to your zinc/D3.

And don't stress about having to do "all these things" now to get yourself on track. ;D One thing at a time. You are doing just fine, you just need a little adjustment.

3
427c8cbb9c2492d74b887fc5cf7a8ce0

on March 07, 2012
at 03:28 AM

I suggest you eat a bit more caloric foods and starches. But you should also drop the coffee since it stresses the adrenals...

427c8cbb9c2492d74b887fc5cf7a8ce0

(432)

on March 07, 2012
at 03:29 AM

I meant to say fats not starches ;).

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:50 AM

Tell me more about the coffee thing, if you have sources or any additional information. I eat enough, I am not going to binge, I eat to satisfy my appetite. But, my coffee lust is otherworldly, likely addictive. If melissa suspects hormones, then there may be a possible link?

2
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on March 07, 2012
at 02:36 AM

You might want to get your hormones checked. If you are low in sleep and high in stress, you may be feeding the stress instead of feeding the other hormones.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 02:49 AM

I sleep fine. I can sleep in or wake up early without difficulty. You may be right about hormones, but I'm not sure if that is the reason alone

1
C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 13, 2012
at 06:21 PM

Hey guys,

Possibly some progress, my first step was increasing the carbs, as suggested. That didn't really change anything, but now i've been having soft, impatient stool daily for the past week. Not cool. Dropped coffee a few days later, I think that helped with the drive the most so far, but the headache that ensued sucked. Boo and I did doink. It was awesome. But I want that to happen more than once month, you dig? I haven't tried any zinc, I'm not sure how much I should start with or anything like that. Suggestions on zincage?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on March 13, 2012
at 06:40 PM

I'd recommend that you try to address it by eating oysters a few times a week instead of taking a zinc supplement so you're less likely to create a zinc:copper imbalance.

47eb0aebcf855257b400c219accc57ee

(10)

on March 13, 2012
at 06:37 PM

I'm taking Metagenics' Zinc A.G. (glycinate), 20 mg twice daily. It's worked wonders for my skin, but it hasn't increased my sex drive (lower than it used to be in pre-Paleo days).

1
284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on March 07, 2012
at 04:32 AM

I think all the nutrition has been covered so I'll throw in a anatomical left-field/whimsical suggestion: roman chair sit-ups. Tweaking femur angle to floor will likely change it somewhat but I first saw this, and forgive me for linking to supp shills, at: http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_women_training_performance_sorority/roman_chair_orgasm?pageNo=6

it's not a long-term fix but much maybe a physical jump-start for the seemingly dead battery.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 04:47 AM

What is "supp shills" ? And the video was removed, so I am looking into it now. The thread, however, was hilarious..

284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on March 07, 2012
at 05:33 AM

you can find tons of videos for the exercise but it generally works with any spinal flexion where your thighs are approaching parallel to the floor.

284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on March 07, 2012
at 05:31 AM

shameless bombastic promoters of not-extraordinarily effective supplements. Biotest, the parent company, has the most exquisitely brotastic adverts for their products (not unique in the industry but exceptional all the same)

284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on March 07, 2012
at 07:00 AM

sorry thats "spinal extension" '

1
Fc64db6a555559762432d503a1dbad19

(1478)

on March 07, 2012
at 03:41 AM

It sounds to me like a combination of hormones and psychological issues. Is there any possibility you are pregnant? When I was pregnant my sex drive was 0 about 6 months after having the baby it came back. I agree with the other comments about you not having enough body fat. This could effect your hormones. There may be some other hormone problem that is unrelated. I would try adding some safe carbs like a yam in the afternoon. Try that for few days and see if you feel better. Also address your body issues with your counselor. there may be some deeper issue.

C1567d424cbe2bc6cf8a9f5223da4afb

on March 07, 2012
at 03:47 AM

No pregnancy here. You have to have sex for that to happen. I get regular cycles, and I eat a lot of fat. I've edited my diet info, to clarify. I don't have body issues, I just don't think my tiny belly puff is attractive! I didn't say that made me unattractive lol.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 07, 2012
at 03:52 AM

you can still have sex without a sex drive, though it's annoying and you might need some KY Jelly, it might get your body back into things.

Fc64db6a555559762432d503a1dbad19

(1478)

on March 07, 2012
at 03:48 PM

When I say body issues I don't mean the little bit of belly fat we all stress about. I mean how you feel in your body. There may be some deeper issue you are not aware of. For me I had a lot of fear associates with sex because we had tried and it didn't work for me so I was always afraid. What worked for me was to look into tantric sex. Start slowly and rebuild trust with one another. You need to know that you guys can mess around and not feel pressured to have intercourse. Rebuild that trust and get your confidence back. Start slowly like just giving one another a massage.

0
1ccc0b0b7a756cd42466cef8f450d0cb

(1801)

on May 31, 2012
at 10:16 PM

I've seen a lot of anecdotal evidence connecting low carb paleo and low libido in many folks - note: myself included! I'm not sure how far above 50g of carbs you eat but that may still be way too low for you. As always, N=1 but increasing my carb intake made a HUGE difference.

0
2006ccb2b60f9cc5ba5e8eff8a7abc46

on May 31, 2012
at 09:53 PM

egg yolks :) do you ever drink? how is your liver?

0
Medium avatar

(2301)

on March 07, 2012
at 04:47 PM

Eat some pumpkin seeds. They're supposed to be good for that.

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