1

votes

Iron - is bloodletting a possibility? [closed- see a doctor, this is an unsafe idea]

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created November 25, 2011 at 3:17 PM

Ok, I'm a 34 year old male,happily 100% paleo and feeling great.
However, I'm concerned about iron accumulation. In the UK you are unable to give blood if you've had a blood transfusion since 1980 - and I have!

So, my question is this; is it worth considering a self administered regime of bloodletting similar to what would be achieved if I were able to give blood.

Change my diet at all to tackle this issue?

Or, tell me I should find something more worthy to worry about?

Summary of my diet (Most meals are followed by a couple of mugs of roobois tea).;

2-3 eggs a day cooked in plenty of grass fed butter, half-whole pound of ground beef or lamb a day, copious cabbage, carrots and onions, 1 piece of fruit a day, daily broth, beef heart 2x a week, liver 1x a week, sardines 2-3x a week, 2x500mg vit C a day,

walk 3x8miles a week, squat 3x a week,

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on November 26, 2011
at 12:17 AM

Actually your leech idea is enticing for many people. There is this gout group online that's pinned a pretty strong connection between gout and excess iron - they are all interested in leeches!

Medium avatar

(19479)

on November 25, 2011
at 11:53 PM

Solid answer Meredith! Much better than my leech idea :P

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on November 25, 2011
at 10:50 PM

SEE A DOCTOR! You don't have any idea whether you have iron overload in the first place. And if you do, he will prescribe something safe!

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on November 25, 2011
at 10:50 PM

Yes, see a doctor! I am closing this!

6dd4c92d9c24c53c5c2fdbb12f79d08d

(128)

on November 25, 2011
at 04:23 PM

i don't know yet

71e078b9000a360364fd039bae64dabf

(125)

on November 25, 2011
at 04:16 PM

How on earth are you going to "let" 500ml of blood safely?

B124653b19ee9dd438710a38954ed4a3

(1634)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:53 PM

+1 simply for bringing up blood donations as everyone that can give should. Not only for themselves, but because it helps so many others.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:37 PM

ah, Americans can give blood at various different places without any real medical record check. Seems they're most concerned t those places with people with risky sexual histories or travel to high risk of malaria, etc. countries

6dd4c92d9c24c53c5c2fdbb12f79d08d

(128)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:35 PM

lol, i have no idea on ferratin - that's something i hadn't thought of, thanks!

6dd4c92d9c24c53c5c2fdbb12f79d08d

(128)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:34 PM

is that so, well i'll maybe mention it. they're concerned about vCJD. to give blood you must give your unique NHS details and my medical records are stored centrally. being selective with the truth isn't an option i don't feel.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:31 PM

How high is your ferratin level? If it's not high thatn don't worry about it.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:30 PM

or, and I can't recommend lying, but if you've had HIV tests and you're negative, I supposed you could temporarily forget about your past blood transfusions?

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:28 PM

ah, you may be surprised, I've heard of people being able to go to a Doctor's office and do it very easily in other EU countries.

6dd4c92d9c24c53c5c2fdbb12f79d08d

(128)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:26 PM

it would NOT be administerd by a medical professional, i really doubt any Dr i spoke to would agree to it

  • 6dd4c92d9c24c53c5c2fdbb12f79d08d

    asked by

    (128)
  • Views
    1K
  • Last Activity
    1377D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

6 Answers

8
0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on November 25, 2011
at 08:54 PM

Interesting (to me) notes on iron overload:

Fructose and alcohol dramatically increase the uptake of iron.

High ferritin predicts hyperuricemia which is related to gout flare-ups.

People who have been put on a phlebotomy regimen of giving blood regularly showed a dramatic decrease in the incidence of gout attacks. In fact, in one study nearly 60% of the people suffered not one attack in the year they did the blood donation therapy.

Giving blood immeditely improves insulin sensitivity.

Iron overlead is common in Type 2 while plebotomy is protective.

Interestingly it looks like menstruation is protective against iron overload, type 2 diabetes and gout. Some think that this is one reason women are longer lived than men and why they get gout and metabolic syndrome as much as men in post-menopausal years.

A 40-year old male will have twice the iron load as a female and will experience twice the rate of diabetes, cancer, heart disease and infections. Bacteria, viruses and fungi all utilize iron as a primary growth factor, so lower iron levels in females protect them from infection.4

Some are exploring plebotomoy and iron chelation therapy for treatment of Type 2 D.

Emerging scientific evidence has disclosed unsuspected influences between iron metabolism and type 2 diabetes. The relationship is bi-directional???iron affects glucose metabolism, and glucose metabolism impinges on several iron metabolic pathways. Iron-induced damage might also modulate the development of chronic diabetes complications. Iron depletion has been demonstrated to be beneficial in coronary artery responses, endothelial dysfunction, insulin secretion, insulin action, and metabolic control in type 2 diabetes.

What are some other complications of iron overload?

Bone - The metal suppresses osteoblast formation of bone and may also stimulate osteoclast resorption of bone. Iron also inhibits anterior pituitary synthesis of gonadotrophs. This, in turn, results in depressed formation of gonadal hormones. The tendency of iron-loaded persons to become osteoporotic may be enhanced by gonadal hormone deficiency. Iron binding agents that could specifically withhold excess skeletal iron (and be excreted as the iron chelate) might have therapeutic utility.

Thyroid - The balance of the three minerals, copper, zinc, and iron, is critically important in preventing and correcting thyroid diseases. If any one of the three is ingested in large amounts it depletes the other two. Taking large amounts of iron when it is copper that is deficient will cause copper to be further depleted and lead to a worsening of the anemia.

What are some simple measures that can be taken to avoid iron excess? Coffee and tea taken with meals, particularly meals high in iron like red meat. Taking in about 300 mg of elemental calcium with high iron foods Avoiding alcohol, fructose and vitamin C supplements taken along with high iron foods. Red wine has tannins which chelate iron so this may make your red vino a better bet.

Please don't go cutting yourself. Have a cuppa tea PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

Medium avatar

(19479)

on November 25, 2011
at 11:53 PM

Solid answer Meredith! Much better than my leech idea :P

3
Medium avatar

(19479)

on November 25, 2011
at 07:36 PM

I schedule a blood donation at a local blood bank every 8-12 weeks, and I don't know how it is in the UK, but here in the states, if you are "ineligible" you can still give blood. After they perform the questionnaire you are allowed to privately (the phlebotomist can't see your choice) decide whether or not you actually want your blood donated. If you choose "no" they will just destroy it.

While I'm not advocating "lying", the point is that no one would be put at risk if you happened to "forget" that you had a transfusion and then you "remembered" and decided that you wanted your donation destroyed.

They test your iron levels before hand, you get a free cholesterol screen (ours actually does total as well as HDL), and it is in a sanitary, professional setting.

If all else fails, I guess you could try adding medical-grade leeches to your bathwater. It would definitely be more "paleo"!

iron---is-bloodletting-a-possibility?-[closed--see-a-doctor,-this-is-an-unsafe-idea]

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on November 26, 2011
at 12:17 AM

Actually your leech idea is enticing for many people. There is this gout group online that's pinned a pretty strong connection between gout and excess iron - they are all interested in leeches!

2
C687adb6aeab5d10b73ae1e272bc348f

(664)

on November 25, 2011
at 08:10 PM

I've never seen myself nor read about iron accumulation issues in a patient who does not have hemochromatosis or cirrhosis.

If you approach iron storage historically/ancestrally you could reason it through as follows: Iron has been with us for a very long time, since before the modern bacteria. In the ancient oceans, before the oxygen crisis, iron was everywhere and the oceans looked opaque and green. Iron is in the soil and modern bacteria and plants regulate their intake all day. Iron is in most cells, most foods, and especially muscle and certain organs. Life/cells/tissues/organisms must necessarily be expert at absorbing it when levels are low and excreting it when high. A heathy body and metabolism doen't allow us to accumulate iron.

This idea of bloodletting as a health aid is new to me but makes as much sense as regular colonics. As Robb Wolf says, leave your poop where it belongs. The same goes for your blood.

Still, donating is a good public service. These are stromatoliths. Our great-great-great grandpappies. They invented connective tissue and cleared the ocean of iron. iron---is-bloodletting-a-possibility?-[closed--see-a-doctor,-this-is-an-unsafe-idea]

2
67f3387f0308b570c61944addedd183e

(112)

on November 25, 2011
at 07:18 PM

Blood letting? Really?

No offense but maybe you should get your iron tested before you start cutting.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on November 25, 2011
at 10:50 PM

Yes, see a doctor! I am closing this!

1
559a1bf85bfe38a0fbbf56377c7278b4

on November 25, 2011
at 07:07 PM

I agree with the comments above that it's a good idea to get iron levels tested before deciding anything.

Subject to the outcome of any such tests, have you looked into manganese? Iron (red meat has a lot of this) and manganese (red meat has not much of this) need to be kept in balance.

1
64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:24 PM

I absolutely would! especially if you're taking that vit c with your meat, although the roobois should be offsetting the iron to some degree. You're lucky you'd be able to do that in the UK, in the US it's extremely hard to find a Doc who'll prescribe bloodletting.

here are two similar threads on here http://paleohacks.com/questions/34678/blood-donations#axzz1eh6b3Fr8

http://paleohacks.com/questions/1060/should-i-donate-blood-on-a-regular-basis-to-stay-paleo#axzz1eh6b3Fr8

Also, on a paleo diet we're not taking in anywhere near the amounts of phytic acid as standard dieters would get in grains, etc. that help prevent iron absorption.

Chris Kresser talks about high iron levels in the first 10-15 mins of this podcast http://chriskresser.com/nutrition-healing-obstacles-to-optimal-health-macronutrient-ratios-and-more

edit: I'm assuming he was going to do it through a Doctor

6dd4c92d9c24c53c5c2fdbb12f79d08d

(128)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:26 PM

it would NOT be administerd by a medical professional, i really doubt any Dr i spoke to would agree to it

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:31 PM

How high is your ferratin level? If it's not high thatn don't worry about it.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:37 PM

ah, Americans can give blood at various different places without any real medical record check. Seems they're most concerned t those places with people with risky sexual histories or travel to high risk of malaria, etc. countries

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:28 PM

ah, you may be surprised, I've heard of people being able to go to a Doctor's office and do it very easily in other EU countries.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:30 PM

or, and I can't recommend lying, but if you've had HIV tests and you're negative, I supposed you could temporarily forget about your past blood transfusions?

6dd4c92d9c24c53c5c2fdbb12f79d08d

(128)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:34 PM

is that so, well i'll maybe mention it. they're concerned about vCJD. to give blood you must give your unique NHS details and my medical records are stored centrally. being selective with the truth isn't an option i don't feel.

6dd4c92d9c24c53c5c2fdbb12f79d08d

(128)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:35 PM

lol, i have no idea on ferratin - that's something i hadn't thought of, thanks!

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!