4

votes

Do you really need a Doctor a Chiropractor, ND, or anyone else for that matter?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 17, 2011 at 6:54 AM

Here is the rub.......most primal folks I speak with are and healthy and are doing the big things things correctly. When the discussion turns to older paleos that have screwed the pooch and are no longer optimal (Insert my clinic patients).......do the rules of evolutionary biology for the primal GenXers still apply?

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on September 18, 2011
at 04:05 AM

Quilt, I think you're on sumfing tonite. Ru alright?

1bc6081160806a05477261c030267892

on September 18, 2011
at 12:41 AM

Jesse - good to meet you. We are practically neighbors! My wife and I practice in Vermont. She was in Boston at the last Robb Wolf seminar a few weeks ago. The 2012 ancestral health symposium is going to be at Harvard...maybe we can meet then!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 09:32 PM

PS I am retired and 64 yr. old.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on September 17, 2011
at 08:14 PM

Majkinetor, U CR*CK ME THE F*CK UP!!!! UR A GENIUS. G

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 17, 2011
at 04:41 PM

With the increased access to information we are trending towards open source medicine and dragging the current system kicking and screaming with us. I've always wondered if the "dangers of self diagnosis" line was just to protect the current paradigm more than the supposed danger of self-diagnosis resulting in normal people becoming hypochondriacs running around hurting themselves. I think hypochondriacs would prefer "the system" anyway. If someone is eating and living well, I suspect they aren't going to be plagued as much by that "something's wrong feeling, unless something is wrong.

C221a8c9efba0c80d03b9f84a2b3b3f9

(418)

on September 17, 2011
at 04:36 PM

a few years ago while in Mexico I received a traditional Mayan massage,one of the techniques they used was having 2 therapists on either side of me and wrapping long cloths around my body which they then pulled from either side. Not only did my spine adjust but so did my knees,elbow and wrists.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on September 17, 2011
at 04:12 PM

Quilt, we appreciate you sharing your thoughts here. My point is that more people can benefit from your insights with good tagging. (Note: the Quilt has retagged the post since my original comment)

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on September 17, 2011
at 03:07 PM

leave some more........good answer. Plus one

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on September 17, 2011
at 03:03 PM

maybe then the tagging process should be rigid? Honestly I could care less how they are tagged. I just come here to share a thought or two.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on September 17, 2011
at 02:43 PM

@majkinetor, your points about tagging are well-taken. I'll leave these tags up as an example of how not to tag. The purposes of tagging are to cross-reference related threads and to make it possible to find old threads about topics of interest. One of the reasons we get so many duplicate posts is that many of the old posts are poorly tagged. Anyone with 500 reputation can retag a question, so if you see bad tagging, fix it (or flag for moderator if you have less than 500 reputation).

Ffbae451fdea9352a40cf7176c2c29f5

(143)

on September 17, 2011
at 02:29 PM

Jim, pleasure to meet another Paleo-oriented chiropractor here. I work at a big family Gonstead office near Boston. Sounds like we do similar work. We will have to hook up sometime. Here is our office: fransonchiropractic.com

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 01:48 PM

And lots of various doctor blogers are highly IT uneducated. Just look Peter @ Hyperlipid tags... he repeats subjects there.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 01:45 PM

No, errors here and elsewhere are software generated.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 01:44 PM

No, errors presented are software generated.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on September 17, 2011
at 01:33 PM

Someone got on Paleo Hacks after drinking too much red wine, me thinks.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on September 17, 2011
at 01:22 PM

love your insight here.......plus one.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on September 17, 2011
at 01:21 PM

plus one for the passion and realization.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 10:12 AM

Also, since you give lot of useful info about optimal health, let me give you some more about machines - "the" and "with" are not tags. Use "-" or "_" to delimit multiword tags. I could also say that admins of this forum need a bit of IT educating

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 09:31 AM

Also, since you give lot of useful info about optimal health, let me give you some more about machines - "the" and "with" are not tags. Use "-" or "_" to delimit mutliword tags. You could also say that admins of this forum need a bit of IT educating.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 09:28 AM

10 finger typing is the idea too if you know how to handle RSI.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 09:28 AM

Dude, use andorid and put that iPad into the trash can.

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14 Answers

4
F6ea948ab43dc51d72509c0989e670fe

(1639)

on September 17, 2011
at 08:49 AM

Bloodwork, and thyroid meds. That's pretty much the only reason I see my ND, but have no interest beyond that.

I find that I do a lot better planning my own health and figuring a bunch of stuff out on my own through experiments and info from around the web. For instance, I don't see an allergist or dermatologist since I went on my leptin reset experiment (BTW, thanks for the info!) and experienced a relief of those symptoms.

However, I'm hoping that the leptin reset protocol lets me get rid of the thyroid meds once I hit optimal. I want to live thyroid med and doctor free. :)

As for the chiropractor? I see a active release technique specialist who's also a chiropractor once in a while. I find it's helpful when I'm a bit too aggressive "playing". Though since I religiously actively stretch, foam roll and use the mobility wod's, I'm finding less and less need to go visit him.

I could see a need for consistent visits to a doctor or such if you're trying to hit "optimal" later in life, but I'm jaded. I'm not convinced that there's that many smart doctors out there who know what optimal looks like. I have to ignore some of my doctor's orders and take more D3 to hit higher levels or play with my nutrient intake to hit what I think is optimal.

If my doc knew that I was on a ketogenic leptin reset protocol she'd probably freak, but I've gotten past the point of caring. I am more concerned about my health and well being than her opinion. Besides, worrying about it increases my cortisol ;)

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on September 17, 2011
at 01:21 PM

plus one for the passion and realization.

3
Ffbae451fdea9352a40cf7176c2c29f5

(143)

on September 17, 2011
at 02:54 PM

TQ, Evolutionary biology is a great framework for understanding where we came from. Our history tells us so much about how to stay healthy, and why everyone is so sick today (obesity, chronic disease rates,etc). It is easy to forget that outside this community there are hundreds of millions of people that think HBP, heart disease, osteoporosis, and more are either genetic diseases or the result of the natural aging process.

The root of the word doctor means teacher, and it is our responsibility to teach people what it means to be healthy. Our 'health care' system has the average senior citizen on 7 prescription drugs. These people are definitely different having lived a sickness lifestyle for so long. If someone with a deranged metabolism that is medicated goes fully Paleo, they can quickly get in trouble as the medication is still having an effect in lowering blood pressure, blood glucose, etc.

I tell these people they need to have someone monitoring them. I tell them to tell their medical doctor that they are implementing some lifestyle changes and that they need help managing their drugs as they get better.

This site, AHS, and the rest of these great efforts are the natural result of health care professionals failing to teach communitites what is necessary to be healthy, and literally failing to comprehend what it means to be healthy. When we have seventy year old patients that come back from medical exams, they say the entire team of doctors and nurses are shocked to see a healthy seventy year old, and no prescription drugs. They are literally shocked.

In regards to the specific question, I think the game does change for certain people that are heavily compromised in some way due to long term lifestyle, injury, or medical treatment. There is a certain amount of 'pooch-screwing' that can occur. I don't think the rules change entirely, but some things do change. I think their ultimate health potential is changed. I also think they have to work much harder to get their relatively smaller portions of health potential back. I'm thinking of the people that can't digest vegetables, or fruits, or can't walk, or can't sleep, etc. Not being able to implement the right changes creates some big changes. Of course, seeing thee people if they an turn it around is a transforming experience.

3
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on September 17, 2011
at 07:07 AM

We need someone to do bloodwork for us. :-)

You would be my doc if I was closer to your practice...

2
61a27a8b7ec2264b1821923b271eaf54

(3175)

on September 17, 2011
at 04:07 PM

When I retired from the military at age 41, I was a total metabolic wreck. The VA doctors made me even worse over the next 5 years. They treated every symptom individually and gave me really bad diet advice (don't eat red meat, eat lots of whole grain). I fired them, but ended up going to Tri-Care providers in a military hospital who are pretty good at fixing soldier's with twisted ankles and delivering the babies of soldier's wives. These guys are just as bad as the VA. Same bad dietary advice, no time to spend with patients, no interest in history. I think they just want to get through the day without being the direct cause of someone's death.

As I am now off all meds and feeling great, I think I will take a long break from doctor visits. My next big hurdle will be the seemingly mandatory colonoscopy at age 50, but I have 4 years to figure out how to get out of that one.

I feel really sorry for all the senior citizen vets I see in the waiting rooms and pharmacy who are 100lbs+ overweight, on oxygen, in wheelchairs, and generally look like they are following a military/VA doctor's advice on health all the way to the grave.

2
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on September 17, 2011
at 01:26 PM

I really appreciate the docs and practitioners who share their knowledge on the web.

IRL, I've had much better results doing my own research and self-experimentation.

With the information access of the internet and the ability to order my own lab tests, I haven't found any need for a RL doctor/ND for the last three years.

I kicked asthma, allergies, insomnia and digestive issues without their help. Most of these pre-Primal.

They do come in handy for some things (like broken legs), but I think I trust myself more than any other practitioner for health care.

2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 10:11 AM

Medicine is useful, no matter its flavor. Each flavor has something to offer. The biggest value of standard medicine is its ability to legally use people as guinea pigs to explore human physiology (not good if you are one of the subjects), of orthomoleculary--to promote the notion that optimal levels of vitamins/minerals are far above that which induce final deficiency, of homeopathy--that we should be open minded and explore alternative ideas (nothing weird in homeopathy more than let's say quantum physics), of Chinese medicine--that treating body as a system rather then collection of black boxes is the way to go, and so on ....

So, the one doesn't need doctors - one can learn from mistake of others, but WE, as civilization, do need doctors as much as we as civilization do need wheat. As always, what's good for us as a whole has nothing to do with individual--just ask any apoptic cell and its cancerous friend.

So I say we need them all and more of them.

I think the more important shift needs to be in paradigm - open source medicine, no matter the flavor.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 17, 2011
at 04:41 PM

With the increased access to information we are trending towards open source medicine and dragging the current system kicking and screaming with us. I've always wondered if the "dangers of self diagnosis" line was just to protect the current paradigm more than the supposed danger of self-diagnosis resulting in normal people becoming hypochondriacs running around hurting themselves. I think hypochondriacs would prefer "the system" anyway. If someone is eating and living well, I suspect they aren't going to be plagued as much by that "something's wrong feeling, unless something is wrong.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on September 17, 2011
at 01:22 PM

love your insight here.......plus one.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on September 17, 2011
at 08:14 PM

Majkinetor, U CR*CK ME THE F*CK UP!!!! UR A GENIUS. G

2
0e4e5882872d6a7c472ea51aec457e66

(1994)

on September 17, 2011
at 07:51 AM

I need someone to make a prescription for my thyroid medication every 3 months (I had most of my thyroid gland removed years ago) and who does my bloodwork.

And I will need someone for first aid - just in case...

The downside of going barefood at home are glass splinters in your toes if you drop a glass bottle.

I'm 49 now.

2
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 17, 2011
at 07:18 AM

I would say it doesn't hurt to have someone who is your go-to person where you are on file (I happen to prefer an ND), if only because of those not quite emergency room situations when you want ND care, but not Urgent Care Unit (take these 6 prescriptions, and here's your $300 bill for a 5 minute appointment) care. It is really hard and miserable to get into the system when you are feeling unwell because more often than not I've found very few of my insurance approved practitioners to be taking new patients, and being put on hold all day while your UTI keeps getting worse sucks in a big way. At least that is why I decided to get someone as my designated GP.

But other than that, probably not....well, other than some chiro/physical therapy work after falling out of treehouses and other fun-induced injuries.

1
Medium avatar

(12379)

on September 17, 2011
at 04:28 PM

I can only speak to my point of view on this one - Doctors are important. My doctor caught cervical cancer very early and I was able to be treated quickly and have no problem - had I not been to the doctor for regular check-ups I don't know if I could say the same. And in my opinion eating 'paleo' would not have helped in this situation.

I have frank and open discussions with my doc regarding diet and lifestyle - he has questions and he also comes back next appointment having researched and put thought into what we spoke about last time. He is also the doctor for my son and partner. We all trust him to treat us to the best of his ability.

Like Aili, I live in Canada - so I am able to go see my doctor without worrying about the cost associated with it - which makes it easier to go with more frequency. Before I was pregnant I saw my doc 1/year for my annual check-up. Since getting pregnant and having our son - I'm a more frequent patient (both for myself and taking my son). I have also adopted the 'paleo' lifestyle since having my son - so I am a more 'informed' patient as well.

1
3dc940ac9be21e45cf83207814c8cd46

(544)

on September 17, 2011
at 03:00 PM

Here in Canada I am able to visit my GP at any time at no expense, which is great. Ad he's a young guy who listens. However, I too learn a lot from the web, including this site and totally appreciate the thought that people put into responses. With suggestions from others, I figured out, for example, that some discomfort I felt was too much protein and not enough H2O. As soon as I adjusted those, all is good again.

I read stuff by "the Quilt" and all you folks, taking some and leaving some as I need.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on September 18, 2011
at 04:05 AM

Quilt, I think you're on sumfing tonite. Ru alright?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on September 17, 2011
at 03:07 PM

leave some more........good answer. Plus one

1
1bc6081160806a05477261c030267892

on September 17, 2011
at 01:17 PM

I am a chiropractor and promote and follow a minimalist Paleo/Primal or as I like to call it an innate lifestyle. I get regular dental care, blood-work once per year, work out at a gym and I also receive chiropractic adjustments as part of my approach to general wellness.Every once in a while a patient will ask me something like this: "Hey doc, primal cultures don't have chiropractors so why should I see you?" Manipulation of the spine as a treatment has been documented throughout recorded history. I'm sure there was a paleo version of me as well! Most of us sit and work way too long in postures that, in spite of "regular" exercise, are detrimental to our bodies and promote altered movement patterns. Alteration and limitation of proper motion promotes accelerated degenerative changes. In our practice we focus on identifying altered motion patterns and functional joint restrictions. Treatment is aimed at restoring proper motion, to the degree possible, with spinal manipulative adjustments, soft tissue release techniques and instruction on exercises to address faulty movement patterns.

Ffbae451fdea9352a40cf7176c2c29f5

(143)

on September 17, 2011
at 02:29 PM

Jim, pleasure to meet another Paleo-oriented chiropractor here. I work at a big family Gonstead office near Boston. Sounds like we do similar work. We will have to hook up sometime. Here is our office: fransonchiropractic.com

1bc6081160806a05477261c030267892

on September 18, 2011
at 12:41 AM

Jesse - good to meet you. We are practically neighbors! My wife and I practice in Vermont. She was in Boston at the last Robb Wolf seminar a few weeks ago. The 2012 ancestral health symposium is going to be at Harvard...maybe we can meet then!

C221a8c9efba0c80d03b9f84a2b3b3f9

(418)

on September 17, 2011
at 04:36 PM

a few years ago while in Mexico I received a traditional Mayan massage,one of the techniques they used was having 2 therapists on either side of me and wrapping long cloths around my body which they then pulled from either side. Not only did my spine adjust but so did my knees,elbow and wrists.

0
318374167f4c3bf3ac0f13ce48211c75

(106)

on September 14, 2012
at 11:52 PM

I'm hardcore paleo and I crossfit. so I see a chiro because I crossfit. gotta make sure the body is properly in line for good ROM and technique.

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 09:30 PM

Like a number of folks here I rely on my doc for blood tests and prescriptions. I rarely need any help for sickness, since I hardly ever get sick and I deal with any minor problems myself.

However, I definitely appreciate the expertise of my favourite orthopedic surgeon who installed two knee replacements to replace the messed up ones I had! And I am happy to have a new endocronologist to up my dose of dessicated thyroid meds when my regular doctor thinks I am OK already (not!).

I especially appreciate docs who are not stressed by people who are proactive and research their own health issues, and will actually discuss/explain things rather than dictate.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 09:32 PM

PS I am retired and 64 yr. old.

0
C221a8c9efba0c80d03b9f84a2b3b3f9

on September 17, 2011
at 04:31 PM

As an "older" paleo woman and someone who jammed themselves up pre-paleo I occasionally feel the need to get treatment.I chose holistic practitioners that bring me back into alignment and have me eat food as medicine with the addition of some herbs if necessary. While Doc Grok didn't have all our technology I feel pretty sure that there was a community shaman/medicine man or woman that knew how to reset a dislocated shoulder and knew what plants to use for medicinal purposes.

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