5

votes

saturated fat argument

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 22, 2012 at 11:52 PM

does anyone have any articles on like pubmed or a certified official source that prove that sat fat is good for u...im in an argument w/ a friend

thanks

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 24, 2012
at 01:09 AM

..and if I'm not mistaken, our body fat is most like that of pigs (not surprisingly) and primarily made of MUFA, not SFA.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 24, 2012
at 01:06 AM

Also, you state that our bodies store energy as adipose tissue as saturated fat. False, only store EXCESS carbohydrate or ingested fat as saturated fat. Generally though, our fatty acid profile is most similar to that of pigs (not surprisingly), which are predominantly composed of MUFA.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 24, 2012
at 01:04 AM

Well, I down voted for a variety of reasons. The first one is because you answered a different question. The question was studies that prove saturated fat is good...you just listed a meta-analysis that says it wasn't bad. There is a different between good and not bad. Something is good for you if it contributes to an increase in a given health marker, something is bad if it contributes to a decrease in a given health marker, and finally something is not bad if it has no effect on a given health marker...so there is a difference.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393

on October 23, 2012
at 09:29 PM

Can you refuse to accept downvotes?

F694fc245d03b64d6936ddb29f4c9306

(2613)

on October 23, 2012
at 07:31 PM

Oh, a downvote! I accept. Firstly, I didn't say it should be a predominant source of fat. Secondly, what are your alternatives? PUFAs are dangerously easy to oxidize. MUFAs aren't bad, but it's hard to get them without PUFA baggage. Thirdly... Your logic is woefully incomplete. A macronutrient is primarily a source of calories. If it isn't bad for you, then it isn't bad for you. Period. What macronutrient is outright good for you? It's all a matter of context. Name a macro, and I can point out a good food and a bad food that contain it.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 23, 2012
at 06:33 PM

Just because something is not shown to be bad, does not mean that is good, and it especially does not mean that it should be the predominate source of fat in an otherwise high fat diet.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on October 23, 2012
at 02:32 AM

JayJay is correct. Total mortality was lower in the saturated fat group, but it wasn't statistically significant.

F694fc245d03b64d6936ddb29f4c9306

(2613)

on October 23, 2012
at 01:04 AM

Above it all, I want to arm you with this core concept: evolution is a survival optimizer. The issue is that evolution is kind of slow, and it hasn't kept up to our habits. Many first-world diseases are caused by rapid changes to our diet that our bodies aren't optimized to handle. Think about something like ice cream. It's a sensory superfood. Five thousand years ago, it might have taken someone a year to eat the amount of simple sugar found in a single sundae. Think of salt. It used to be worth more than its weight in gold. We are evolved to eat saturated fat.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 23, 2012
at 01:03 AM

^insignificant.

81181cab058dd652659e4bb2e6f25843

(528)

on October 23, 2012
at 12:54 AM

It certainly does not cause atherosclerosis. I can't even decide whether you're being facetious.

00cd3b6f51530a6832fcda1712edbec3

(2411)

on October 23, 2012
at 12:33 AM

I'm lazy. What's the p value on the extra 19 deaths?

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7 Answers

10
F694fc245d03b64d6936ddb29f4c9306

(2613)

on October 23, 2012
at 12:29 AM

As a direct answer to your question, this is from Chris Kresser's site:

[...] a meta-analysis published this week in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. It pooled together data from 21 unique studies that included almost 350,000 people, about 11,000 of whom developed cardiovascular disease (CVD), tracked for an average of 14 years, and concluded that there is no relationship between the intake of saturated fat and the incidence of heart disease or stroke. [Emphasis mine.]

Article: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract

The point here is that you shouldn't be on the defensive; your friend should be. Ask him to show you a properly controlled, peer-reviewed article that demonstrates a causal relationship between saturated fat and heart disease. Ask him to explain to you how saturated fat magically turns into arterial plaques. In case he mentions the Seven Countries study, show him this video.


Your body stores energy in adipose tissue in the form of saturated fat. Thus, when you burn fat (i.e. when losing weight), your body is essentially consuming pure lard in all its saturated glory. Why would millions of years of evolution leave us (and most other animals) with such a mechanism if saturated fat were dangerous to us? How the heck could we survive?


In case you're curious, in simple terms, one of the key causes of heart disease is inflammation, which causes lipoproteins (which may carry cholesterol) to attach to vessel walls as a kind of bandage over lesions. In conditions of extended inflammation, the lipoproteins become oxidized by free radicals. This starts the cascade of events that leads to atherosclerosis. This inflammation is often caused by simple sugars, trans-fats, insulin resistance, triglyceride imbalance, and smoking.

Learn more:

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393

on October 23, 2012
at 09:29 PM

Can you refuse to accept downvotes?

F694fc245d03b64d6936ddb29f4c9306

(2613)

on October 23, 2012
at 07:31 PM

Oh, a downvote! I accept. Firstly, I didn't say it should be a predominant source of fat. Secondly, what are your alternatives? PUFAs are dangerously easy to oxidize. MUFAs aren't bad, but it's hard to get them without PUFA baggage. Thirdly... Your logic is woefully incomplete. A macronutrient is primarily a source of calories. If it isn't bad for you, then it isn't bad for you. Period. What macronutrient is outright good for you? It's all a matter of context. Name a macro, and I can point out a good food and a bad food that contain it.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 23, 2012
at 06:33 PM

Just because something is not shown to be bad, does not mean that is good, and it especially does not mean that it should be the predominate source of fat in an otherwise high fat diet.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 24, 2012
at 01:06 AM

Also, you state that our bodies store energy as adipose tissue as saturated fat. False, only store EXCESS carbohydrate or ingested fat as saturated fat. Generally though, our fatty acid profile is most similar to that of pigs (not surprisingly), which are predominantly composed of MUFA.

F694fc245d03b64d6936ddb29f4c9306

(2613)

on October 23, 2012
at 01:04 AM

Above it all, I want to arm you with this core concept: evolution is a survival optimizer. The issue is that evolution is kind of slow, and it hasn't kept up to our habits. Many first-world diseases are caused by rapid changes to our diet that our bodies aren't optimized to handle. Think about something like ice cream. It's a sensory superfood. Five thousand years ago, it might have taken someone a year to eat the amount of simple sugar found in a single sundae. Think of salt. It used to be worth more than its weight in gold. We are evolved to eat saturated fat.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 24, 2012
at 01:09 AM

..and if I'm not mistaken, our body fat is most like that of pigs (not surprisingly) and primarily made of MUFA, not SFA.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 24, 2012
at 01:04 AM

Well, I down voted for a variety of reasons. The first one is because you answered a different question. The question was studies that prove saturated fat is good...you just listed a meta-analysis that says it wasn't bad. There is a different between good and not bad. Something is good for you if it contributes to an increase in a given health marker, something is bad if it contributes to a decrease in a given health marker, and finally something is not bad if it has no effect on a given health marker...so there is a difference.

1
A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on October 23, 2012
at 12:30 AM

The Minnesota Coronary Study was a double blind dietary trial conducted on 9057 men and women which lasted 4.5 years. Two separate groups were formed, one eating more polyunsaturated fat and less saturated fat than the other group.

By the end of the study there were 267 deaths in the group consuming more PUFA group and 248 in the saturated fat group. There was also less cancer and arteriosclerotic heart disease deaths in the group eating more saturated fat.

Here's a link to the write up: http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/9/1/129.full.pdf

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 23, 2012
at 01:03 AM

^insignificant.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on October 23, 2012
at 02:32 AM

JayJay is correct. Total mortality was lower in the saturated fat group, but it wasn't statistically significant.

00cd3b6f51530a6832fcda1712edbec3

(2411)

on October 23, 2012
at 12:33 AM

I'm lazy. What's the p value on the extra 19 deaths?

1
Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 23, 2012
at 12:02 AM

Heres an easy one to contest the idea that its bad for you:

In animal models, they cannot induce heart disease without altering the animals genes. They cannot produce heart disease using diet and exercise. If saturated fat causes heart disease, they would be able to use it to produce such in an animal (ie they would have an animal model, that didnt rest instead on altering its dna).

Obviously fat doesnt lead to weight gain either, milk consumption for example is negatively correlated with BMI, and even mainstream diet advice talks about calories, not macros.

Good for you will be harder. Its highly understudied what fats are used for, because of the subjective bias against it. Its used in the mylenation of the neurons in the brain, its the heart and livers preferred source of energy. Theres probably alot more places it is used. Its seems reasonably that in some cases of high cholesterol, that the body is actually hording it because of a dietery lack.

If you dont use your gallbladder it will get stasis which can cause stones and infections.

But you wont find any studies actually linking sat fat to positive health effects I dont think, because there is so much bias, nobody performs those studies.

0
7b4641bc7c610f2944da66f79cc3378a

on October 23, 2012
at 06:09 PM

A list of SF benefits for your discussion :)

http://www.stop-trans-fat.com/benefits-of-saturated_fats.html

0
48e75afe134c5c476f55f5326bea47fb

on October 23, 2012
at 01:38 PM

I've accumulated the details and results of over a 100 studies showing the benefits of saturated fat at www.dietsandscience.com

0
3491e51730101b18724dc57c86601173

(8395)

on October 23, 2012
at 12:37 AM

Unfortunately, it's an argument you can't win. Not because the facts aren't there to support your contentions, but because the facts ARE there, and they are totally ignored by the mainstream. As far as most people are concerned, never let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

The conventional wisdom remains "fat bad, carbs good" and until the words coming out of Dr. Oz's mouth do a complete 180, you will NEVER win an argument with your friend. Your best revenge is to outlive her in great health (LOL!).

-2
E8c2167284f0cdd16a12bea2741975b4

on October 23, 2012
at 12:33 AM

This is a matter of semantics. Saturated fat alone does not cause "heart disease" it causes athlerosclerosis. Heart disease is defined as athletosclerosis that ruptures, which probably requires another insult on top of high steric acid

81181cab058dd652659e4bb2e6f25843

(528)

on October 23, 2012
at 12:54 AM

It certainly does not cause atherosclerosis. I can't even decide whether you're being facetious.

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