3

votes

Research on Saturated Fat?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created June 24, 2012 at 1:32 AM

So, I am eating dinner with my dad, and I want to encourage him to eat better. I suggest egg yolks and coconut oil. He says, "but those are high in saturated fats," and I realized that I didn't have an answer. I know nothing about different kinds of fats. I just try to eat close to the earth. Plus, my cholesterol has always been low, so I never got around to researching it (okay, that sounds a little defensive, but I hate feeling stupid) ;-)

My father is a very intelligent man (a doctor) who won't do something unless there is some kind of research to back it up. Does anyone have anything I can send him? I really hate to see him eating margarine and egg whites :-/

P.S. any suggestions on things I can send him? Macadamia nut butter? Having grown up very poor, I know he will eat anything I spend money on rather than waste it or throw it away, lol, one way to get him to eat better! :-)

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

"Reduced or modified dietary fat for preventing cardiovascular disease" - suggests reducing deitary sat fats, even though the correlations are incredibly weak, and there is not effect on overall mortality. Not sure why that was posted....

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 04, 2012
at 01:18 PM

Since ive been eating paleo-ish (including high-ish meat amounts, fatty cuts, butter, hard cheese and coconut oil) my LDL as gone down (used to eat nearly 85% carbs). It used to be high, now its well below any risk marker, weak or strong. And my HDL has also gone down. Thats the opposite of everything ive read on sat fats. Not sure what to make of that, maybe its genes...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 04, 2012
at 01:16 PM

Since ive been eating paleo-ish (including high-ish meat amounts, fatty cuts, butter, hard cheese and coconut oil) my LDL as gone down (used to eat nearly 85% carbs). It used to be high, now its well below any risk marker, weak or strong. Not sure what that means yet.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 26, 2012
at 02:38 AM

Well he had a bad heart attack, followed by open heart surgery some years ago and I think this has spooked him and biases his reasoning in some ways.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 26, 2012
at 02:37 AM

@AMY B- Haha, that would be funny! I cannot imagine doing that to my dad. Seems vaguely disrespectful somehow.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 26, 2012
at 02:36 AM

Thank you! I am slowly reading me way through everyone's posts. Taking notes!

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 26, 2012
at 02:35 AM

He won't read a book :-/

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 26, 2012
at 02:35 AM

Unfortunately, he doesn't read books :-/

7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on June 25, 2012
at 10:40 PM

Interesting site. Thanks.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on June 25, 2012
at 08:55 PM

Right on Terry. Mary Enig's book is GOLDEN.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on June 25, 2012
at 08:54 PM

Tell him to go back to his biochem 101 textbook. Basic basic stuff about how chemically unstable and prone to oxidation the polyunsaturates are.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 25, 2012
at 05:34 PM

Foreveryoung that actually says something, as the milk is food meant for growth of the baby. It likely has to be as healthy as possible to make that happen.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 25, 2012
at 05:31 PM

*"Many people see coconut oil in its hard, white state, and--as a result of their training watching television or going to medical school--associate it with the cholesterol-rich plaques in blood vessels. Those lesions in blood vessels are caused mostly by lipid peroxidation of unsaturated fats, and relate to stress, because adrenaline liberates fats from storage, and the lining of blood vessels is exposed to high concentrations of the blood-borne material. In the body, incidentally, the oil can't exist as a solid, since it liquefies at 76 degrees."*

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 25, 2012
at 05:29 PM

As you liked the article I gave you about water, here are 2 articles, one about coconut oil, the other one about fats in general with references : http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsuitablefats.shtml and http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/coconut-oil.shtml

Bcb2f5436d11467e89123680c046b858

(1356)

on June 25, 2012
at 04:10 PM

This is a good blog post summarizing & commenting on the paper: http://nutsci.org/2011/04/14/a-consensus-paper-on-dietary-fats-and-cardiovascular-disease/

Bcb2f5436d11467e89123680c046b858

(1356)

on June 25, 2012
at 03:12 AM

Bummer. Thanks very much for the info, Wowza.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on June 25, 2012
at 01:28 AM

Even if high LDL isn't causative for CVD, that doesn't make high LDL normal. High LDL/TC is indicative of some derangement.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 25, 2012
at 12:37 AM

Perhaps you could drop a link in to the particular study you have in mind? To be honest, ive only been looking at this for a few weeks. Ive read maybe about 10-12 papers in total. Id love to see something a little more scientifically grounded if you know of anything..

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 25, 2012
at 12:35 AM

perhaps you could drop a link in to the particular study you have in mind? To be honest, ive only been looking at this for a few weeks. Ive read maybe about 8 papers in total. Id love to see something a little more scientifically grounded if you know of anything...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 25, 2012
at 12:33 AM

^ good point, about cows. All abstracts cite other studies. Alot of them are meta-analysis, which is fully relying on other studies. Usually when I am looking at a paper, I follow the citation chain a little. But if one does this the chain goes back many years, often all the way back to 1950/60. In my time so far looking at this, Ive seen less soft science in psychology, so I am taking almost everything with a pinch of salt. Alot of it is just statistical manipulation uncontrolled for the large number of variables in nutrition. But you may have some particular study in mind....

80890193d74240cab6dda920665bfb6c

(1528)

on June 24, 2012
at 06:50 PM

Sorry, correcting my typo - cites fell to 18 this year. :)

80890193d74240cab6dda920665bfb6c

(1528)

on June 24, 2012
at 06:49 PM

If you look at the cites of the Siri-Tarino/Hu/Krauss paper, you'll notice it was everywhere for a while in 2010, but then cites fell dramatically to just 61 in 2011, down to 16 so far this year. I wish it were different, but it isn't. . . :( The scientific community has turned away from what at first seem like a revolutionary paper. . .

80890193d74240cab6dda920665bfb6c

(1528)

on June 24, 2012
at 06:38 PM

Hi Annika, yes, Scarborough et al have destroyed that paper as of now I'm afraid. There was quite an exchange of letters in the ACJN throughout 2010, which continued into 2011. If you have access to a good science library, you should be able to read them all. In true high style, Scarborough took that paper apart, and Siri-Tarino/Hu/Krauss offered several replies. I don't think the entire exchange is online - but parts are - for example, see http://www.ajcn.org/content/92/2/459.1.full.pdf - but there's a lot more than that you have to read to follow the whole story. :(

Bcb2f5436d11467e89123680c046b858

(1356)

on June 24, 2012
at 05:36 PM

@Wowza - Really, the Krauss paper has been discredited? This is the first I have heard of this. Can you point me in the right direction to learn more about it? I have only seen it held high as evidence that saturated fats are not bad for you.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on June 24, 2012
at 02:50 PM

... have you read any of the original studies, besides linking to people who site the original studies?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on June 24, 2012
at 02:47 PM

^ why did that get upvoted? That says nothing. Cows drink breast milk upon birth, but spend the remainder of their lives mostly eating grass. There are hundreds of examples of mammals that drink milk upon birht, but then live a monstly omniviorous life after.

32123f4f25bdf6a7b70c9c2a719386ed

(396)

on June 24, 2012
at 02:40 PM

And have him read "Know Your Fats" by Mary G. Enig, Ph.D, and "The Cholesterol Myths" by Uffe Ravnskov, MD, PhD.

Da12b342d4959f5bd776c0f00b072a6c

(311)

on June 24, 2012
at 02:40 PM

And don't forget the linking of saturated fat /cholesterol /Vitamin D to protection against many cancers. VERY IMPORTANT.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 24, 2012
at 07:55 AM

And people on diets, tend to think about everything they eat. To really, truelly study sat fats for heart disease, they would need to study a population that eats low carb, high sat fats, low refined sugar, low high GI carbs, and low omega-6 - basically us - and compare that w/ a high carb, high sugar, low fat diet (which is also associated with increased CV risk BTW, even in some intervention studies), and a high sat fat, high sugar, high sat fat group (junk food eaters). That would be far more definative...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 24, 2012
at 07:53 AM

This is major problem particularly for sat fat studies, nation based, or intervention based. Because the majority of people in western societies eating high sat fats, are also eating refined carbs, refined sugars & high omega-6s. That's a dangerous combination if small dense LDL is the real CHD beastie.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 24, 2012
at 07:49 AM

I have to say, that nutritional science is so hard to control properly, that meta-analysis is basically useless IMO. Its hard enough to control for what people are eating nutrient by nutrient, in a single study, let alone throwing a whole bunch together. Every study in a meta-analysis should record average consumption of each major type of macronutrient - starch, fibre, sugars, refined high GI carbs, sat fats (mystyric, palmitic, lauric), monounsaturated fats, omega 3 PUFAs, and omega 6 pufas - or something to that effect. At least that way they can speculate about confounding variables...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 24, 2012
at 07:03 AM

Its an interesting point, actually, that if saturated fats arent essential nutrients, why is human breast milk abundant with them...

80890193d74240cab6dda920665bfb6c

(1528)

on June 24, 2012
at 06:30 AM

You can't rely on this paper any more - research the responses. . . it's been destroyed and the authors appear to have pretty much stopped defending it in the last month. Hooper L, et al. Reduced or modified dietary fat for preventing cardiovascular disease. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2011 Jul 6;(7):CD002137 is holding up a little better so far. Also, Serum fatty-acid composition and the risk of Alzheimer's disease: a longitudinal population-based study.Eur J Clin Nutr. 2012 Jun 20. doi: 10.1038/ejcn.2012.63 - sat fat stops dementia.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 24, 2012
at 05:32 AM

Thank you. I am e-mailing him now :-)

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 24, 2012
at 05:32 AM

Probably not (he is not retired) but I won't convince him with words alone, I would need to show proof.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 24, 2012
at 03:40 AM

Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for :-)

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 24, 2012
at 02:12 AM

Thanks, I will check that out :-)

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13 Answers

best answer

3
Bcb2f5436d11467e89123680c046b858

(1356)

on June 24, 2012
at 03:19 AM

This meta-analysis came out in 2010. Results showed "Intake of saturated fat was not associated with an increased risk of CHD, stroke, or CVD."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2824152/

Bcb2f5436d11467e89123680c046b858

(1356)

on June 24, 2012
at 05:36 PM

@Wowza - Really, the Krauss paper has been discredited? This is the first I have heard of this. Can you point me in the right direction to learn more about it? I have only seen it held high as evidence that saturated fats are not bad for you.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 24, 2012
at 07:55 AM

And people on diets, tend to think about everything they eat. To really, truelly study sat fats for heart disease, they would need to study a population that eats low carb, high sat fats, low refined sugar, low high GI carbs, and low omega-6 - basically us - and compare that w/ a high carb, high sugar, low fat diet (which is also associated with increased CV risk BTW, even in some intervention studies), and a high sat fat, high sugar, high sat fat group (junk food eaters). That would be far more definative...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 24, 2012
at 07:53 AM

This is major problem particularly for sat fat studies, nation based, or intervention based. Because the majority of people in western societies eating high sat fats, are also eating refined carbs, refined sugars & high omega-6s. That's a dangerous combination if small dense LDL is the real CHD beastie.

80890193d74240cab6dda920665bfb6c

(1528)

on June 24, 2012
at 06:30 AM

You can't rely on this paper any more - research the responses. . . it's been destroyed and the authors appear to have pretty much stopped defending it in the last month. Hooper L, et al. Reduced or modified dietary fat for preventing cardiovascular disease. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2011 Jul 6;(7):CD002137 is holding up a little better so far. Also, Serum fatty-acid composition and the risk of Alzheimer's disease: a longitudinal population-based study.Eur J Clin Nutr. 2012 Jun 20. doi: 10.1038/ejcn.2012.63 - sat fat stops dementia.

80890193d74240cab6dda920665bfb6c

(1528)

on June 24, 2012
at 06:38 PM

Hi Annika, yes, Scarborough et al have destroyed that paper as of now I'm afraid. There was quite an exchange of letters in the ACJN throughout 2010, which continued into 2011. If you have access to a good science library, you should be able to read them all. In true high style, Scarborough took that paper apart, and Siri-Tarino/Hu/Krauss offered several replies. I don't think the entire exchange is online - but parts are - for example, see http://www.ajcn.org/content/92/2/459.1.full.pdf - but there's a lot more than that you have to read to follow the whole story. :(

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

"Reduced or modified dietary fat for preventing cardiovascular disease" - suggests reducing deitary sat fats, even though the correlations are incredibly weak, and there is not effect on overall mortality. Not sure why that was posted....

80890193d74240cab6dda920665bfb6c

(1528)

on June 24, 2012
at 06:50 PM

Sorry, correcting my typo - cites fell to 18 this year. :)

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 24, 2012
at 03:40 AM

Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for :-)

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 24, 2012
at 07:49 AM

I have to say, that nutritional science is so hard to control properly, that meta-analysis is basically useless IMO. Its hard enough to control for what people are eating nutrient by nutrient, in a single study, let alone throwing a whole bunch together. Every study in a meta-analysis should record average consumption of each major type of macronutrient - starch, fibre, sugars, refined high GI carbs, sat fats (mystyric, palmitic, lauric), monounsaturated fats, omega 3 PUFAs, and omega 6 pufas - or something to that effect. At least that way they can speculate about confounding variables...

80890193d74240cab6dda920665bfb6c

(1528)

on June 24, 2012
at 06:49 PM

If you look at the cites of the Siri-Tarino/Hu/Krauss paper, you'll notice it was everywhere for a while in 2010, but then cites fell dramatically to just 61 in 2011, down to 16 so far this year. I wish it were different, but it isn't. . . :( The scientific community has turned away from what at first seem like a revolutionary paper. . .

Bcb2f5436d11467e89123680c046b858

(1356)

on June 25, 2012
at 03:12 AM

Bummer. Thanks very much for the info, Wowza.

2
2336245491a87ee15d4fb8f8f8283909

(1173)

on June 25, 2012
at 04:44 AM

Let me point you to some good resources on this topic.

Ignore the Awkward - Ravnskov http://www.amazon.com/Ignore-Awkward-Cholesterol-Myths-Alive/dp/1453759409/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340598160&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=ignore+the+awakward

Fat and Cholesterol are Good for You - Ravnskov http://www.amazon.com/Fat-Cholesterol-are-Good-You/dp/919755538X/ref=pd_sim_b_1

The Great Cholesterol Con - Colpo http://www.amazon.com/The-Great-Cholesterol-Anthony-Colpo/dp/1430309334/ref=pd_sim_b_8

Good Calories, Bad Calories - Taubes http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Controversial-Science/dp/1400033462/ref=pd_sim_b_8

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics http://thincs.org/

The Weston A Price Foundation http://www.westonaprice.org/

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/

There's a lot more if you need it. ;)

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 26, 2012
at 02:36 AM

Thank you! I am slowly reading me way through everyone's posts. Taking notes!

2
2336245491a87ee15d4fb8f8f8283909

(1173)

on June 24, 2012
at 04:21 AM

Ask him If he is aware that too much polyunsaturated fat causes inflammation and inflammation causes cancer and heart disease. Is he aware that eating eggs will not negatively affect your cholesterol? Is he aware that margarine (and other sources of partially hydrogenated vegetable oils) will? Is he aware that unlike polyunsaturated fats, saturated fats are not subject to oxidation and rancidity? All of this information is easily verified with just a bit of research. Unfortunately, most doctors never take the time to do it.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 24, 2012
at 05:32 AM

Probably not (he is not retired) but I won't convince him with words alone, I would need to show proof.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 26, 2012
at 02:37 AM

@AMY B- Haha, that would be funny! I cannot imagine doing that to my dad. Seems vaguely disrespectful somehow.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on June 25, 2012
at 08:54 PM

Tell him to go back to his biochem 101 textbook. Basic basic stuff about how chemically unstable and prone to oxidation the polyunsaturates are.

2
Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 24, 2012
at 03:47 AM

I am not personally convinced that high LDL cholesterol is strongly correlated with heart disease.

But if that were a concern, its worth mentioning not all saturated fatty acids effect LDL the same. Palmitic acid and myristic acid raise LDL the most of saturated fatty acids, lauric acid, the saturated fat in coconuts/coconut oil, has barely any effect on LDL, and raises good cholesterol HDL, like all sat fats do, so the net effect is good or neutral, even under the traditional veiw of heart disease (which again, scientifically, isnt that convincing)

Ask your father, the doctor, where this compelling evidence strongly correlating saturated fat in the diet with heart disease is?

Ive been looking into things like the framington study, and the WHO's evidence for all this (I have a background in science), and I am really not convinced. If he knows of any compelling strong evidence, find it and post it up! (Ive been looking for it). All they have is a weak correlation, that just as often fails.

As stated above, a meta-analysis of many nations found no link between sat fat intake and heart disease. Spain and france are great examples. Both eat high sat fats, neither have high heart disease.

A strong correlation does not have as many failures and outliers.

Lets look at this - blue jeans are correlated with heart disease. Are blue jeans then the cause of heart disease?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on June 25, 2012
at 01:28 AM

Even if high LDL isn't causative for CVD, that doesn't make high LDL normal. High LDL/TC is indicative of some derangement.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 26, 2012
at 02:38 AM

Well he had a bad heart attack, followed by open heart surgery some years ago and I think this has spooked him and biases his reasoning in some ways.

2
1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on June 24, 2012
at 02:10 AM

Maybe just a quick introduction to the subject via Chris Kresser's "I have high cholesterol and I don't care" videos? That's certainly not peer reviewed research, but it's at least a good way to throw the whole "SF & Cholesterol are not evil" statement in front of him. Good luck.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 24, 2012
at 02:12 AM

Thanks, I will check that out :-)

1
Medium avatar

(10611)

on June 25, 2012
at 08:07 PM

Here's what convinces me. First, read the methodology and background:

http://www.framinghamheartstudy.org/about/background.html

Then see how responsive your CV risk is to total cholesterol and HDL using the other tabs on this site, or by googling up one of the risk calculators based on this study. In my case, increasing TC from 210 to 250 does not increase my 2 year coronary risk. What does it do to your father's risk?

If you can accept these results, why would you worry about eating lipids from any source so long as your risk is unchanged ?

7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on June 25, 2012
at 10:40 PM

Interesting site. Thanks.

1
Baa413654789b57f3579474ca7fa43d7

(2349)

on June 25, 2012
at 05:16 PM

The Ancestral Weight Loss Registry has a good section on "What Does Science Have to Say About Ancestral Eating?" It lists a number of studies.

http://www.awlr.org/related-science.html

It has different sections regarding dietary cholesterol, saturated fat, and heart disease.

Also, a little more than a year ago, Stephan Guyenet did a fairly thorough review of the scientific literature allegedly connecting sat fat and blood cholesterol.

Stephan concluded, "Of all the studies I came across, only the Western Electric study found a clear association between habitual saturated fat intake and blood cholesterol, and even that association was weak. The Bogalusa Heart study and the Japanese study provided inconsistent evidence for a weak association. The other studies I cited, including the bank workers' study, the Tecumseh study, the Evans county study, the Israel Ischemic Heart study, the Framingham study and the Health Professionals Follow-up study, found no association between the two factors.

Overall, the literature does not offer much support for the idea that long term saturated fat intake has a significant effect on the concentration of blood cholesterol in humans."

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/01/does-dietary-saturated-fat-increase.html

1
Bcb2f5436d11467e89123680c046b858

(1356)

on June 25, 2012
at 04:08 PM

Research is mixed. A symposium was held in 2010 with many nutrition researchers, including Krauss (who I cited above). They examined the recent research on saturated fat, and concluded (among other things) that replacing SFAs with PUFAs reduces the risk of cardiovascular disease. I come across this finding fairly regularly when looking at studies on fats. This doesn't make much sense when comparing the typical view in the Paleo community of O-6 fats being one of the Big Three neolithic agents of disease. I must say I cringe every time I see a recommendation to increase use of liquid vegetable (sic) oils.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/93/4/684.full

Bcb2f5436d11467e89123680c046b858

(1356)

on June 25, 2012
at 04:10 PM

This is a good blog post summarizing & commenting on the paper: http://nutsci.org/2011/04/14/a-consensus-paper-on-dietary-fats-and-cardiovascular-disease/

1
Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 25, 2012
at 01:07 AM

I found this paper pretty interesting:

"Studies of atherogenic lipoprotein concentrations and properties have raised questions about the benefit of lowering saturated fat intakes by increasing carbohydrate intake, which can induce atherogenic dyslipidemia, and the benefit of increasing monounsaturated fat intakes, which does not lead to improvements in the properties of LDL particles that are associated with atherosclerosis in animal models"

"Moreover, whereas it is not known whether diet-induced increases in HDL cholesterol confer protection against CVD risk that would be inferred from epidemiologic data, this effect of dietary saturated fat requires consideration when assessing its net effect on CVD risk. "

"In contrast, recent evidence indicates that limitations in carbohydrate intake can improve all features of atherogenic dyslipidemia. Finally, clinical studies have not yielded consistent evidence for adverse effects of saturated fat on CVD risk factors other than LDL cholesterol"

http://www.konopka-dr.de/pdf/Siri-Tarino_10_Risk_Meta.pdf

And this, which it cites:

"In summary, the present study showed that changes in dietary saturated fat are associated with changes in LDL subclasses in healthy men. An increase in saturated fat, and in particular, myristic acid, was associated with increases in larger LDL particles (and decreases in smaller LDL particles)."

http://www.ajcn.org/content/67/5/828.full.pdf

Basically its talking about this whole LDL particle size thing that paleo gurus go on about, that we know is the lipid feature most strongly correlated with heart disease.

High SFAs, produces more light fluffy LDL, reducing SFAs, alters the LDL particle size downwards, and replacing with carbohydrates - or at minimum high GI & high GL carbs (what everyone replaces the sat fat calories with) reduces HDL, and produces more small dense LDL.

1
Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 24, 2012
at 06:14 AM

"As an example, in a study in which healthy, nondiabetic volunteers consumed diets that contained either 60% of total calories from carbohydrate (25% from fat and 15% from protein) or 40% from carbohydrate (45% from fat and 15% from protein), the 60%-carbohydrate diet resulted in higher fasting plasma triacylglycerol, remnant lipoprotein, and remnant lipoprotein triacylglycerol and lower HDL cholesterol without changing LDL-cholesterol concentrations. "

"Still, many investigators claim that the global obesity epidemic is a result of environmental factors (21), including dietary fat (22), supersized portions (23), insufficient energy expenditure (20), and social causes (24). Such hypotheses are the basis of sound scientific debate; however, they are not the basis of sound public health policy."

"The approach of many mainstream investigators in studying the effect of consuming saturated fats has been narrowly focused to produce and evaluate evidence in support of the hypothesis that dietary saturated fat elevates LDL cholesterol and thus the risk of CAD. The evidence is not strong, and, overall, dietary intervention by lowering saturated fat intake does not lower the incidence of nonfatal CAD; nor does such dietary intervention lower coronary disease or total mortality.

Unfortunately, the overwhelming emphasis on the role of saturated fats in the diet and the risk of CAD has distracted investigators from studying any other effects that individual saturated fatty acids may have on the body. If saturated fatty acids were of no value or were harmful to humans, evolution would probably not have established within the mammary gland the means to produce saturated fatty acids???butyric, caproic, caprylic, capric, lauric, myristic, palmitic, and stearic acids???that provide a source of nourishment to ensure the growth, development, and survival of mammalian offspring."

"Twenty years ago, government guidelines recommended that all persons consume a low-fat diet, with the advice being to ???avoid too much fat, saturated fat, and cholesterol??? (121). Consumption of a low-fat diet (defined as one containing 20% of energy from fat) was subsequently shown to induce atherogenic dyslipidemia (122, 123). On the basis of government guidelines, the food industry was obliged to change the formulation of foods to a preponderance of low-fat and nonfat products, with calories from carbohydrates being substituted for fat. It is now known that a high-carbohydrate diet can lead to the lipoprotein pattern (124) that characterizes atherogenic dyslipidemia. "

"At this time, research on how specific saturated fatty acids contribute to CAD and on the role each specific saturated fatty acid plays in other health outcomes is not sufficient to make global recommendations for all persons to remove saturated fats from their diet. No randomized clinical trials of low-fat diets (105) or low-saturated fat diets of sufficient duration have been carried out; thus, there is a lack of knowledge of how low saturated fat intake can be without the risk of potentially deleterious health outcomes."

http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/3/550.full

Great little 2004 abstract. Neither pro- nor anti-fat. Just looks at how weak the science is behind these dietary recommendations, and our understanding of what saturated fats actually do in the body. Well worth the read IMO. Even goes a little into the very under-researched functions of saturated fats in the body, which I found interesting...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 24, 2012
at 07:03 AM

Its an interesting point, actually, that if saturated fats arent essential nutrients, why is human breast milk abundant with them...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on June 24, 2012
at 02:50 PM

... have you read any of the original studies, besides linking to people who site the original studies?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 25, 2012
at 12:35 AM

perhaps you could drop a link in to the particular study you have in mind? To be honest, ive only been looking at this for a few weeks. Ive read maybe about 8 papers in total. Id love to see something a little more scientifically grounded if you know of anything...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on June 24, 2012
at 02:47 PM

^ why did that get upvoted? That says nothing. Cows drink breast milk upon birth, but spend the remainder of their lives mostly eating grass. There are hundreds of examples of mammals that drink milk upon birht, but then live a monstly omniviorous life after.

Da12b342d4959f5bd776c0f00b072a6c

(311)

on June 24, 2012
at 02:40 PM

And don't forget the linking of saturated fat /cholesterol /Vitamin D to protection against many cancers. VERY IMPORTANT.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 25, 2012
at 12:33 AM

^ good point, about cows. All abstracts cite other studies. Alot of them are meta-analysis, which is fully relying on other studies. Usually when I am looking at a paper, I follow the citation chain a little. But if one does this the chain goes back many years, often all the way back to 1950/60. In my time so far looking at this, Ive seen less soft science in psychology, so I am taking almost everything with a pinch of salt. Alot of it is just statistical manipulation uncontrolled for the large number of variables in nutrition. But you may have some particular study in mind....

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 25, 2012
at 05:34 PM

Foreveryoung that actually says something, as the milk is food meant for growth of the baby. It likely has to be as healthy as possible to make that happen.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 25, 2012
at 12:37 AM

Perhaps you could drop a link in to the particular study you have in mind? To be honest, ive only been looking at this for a few weeks. Ive read maybe about 10-12 papers in total. Id love to see something a little more scientifically grounded if you know of anything..

1
2d1729002574093032132b662b536226

on June 24, 2012
at 05:27 AM

Have him read this blog post http://thesmarterscienceofslim.com/its-not-about-lowering-cholesterol/#more-3901

Even as Ancel Keys was spouting his crap, other voices were saying just the opposite. There are references at the end of the post. Twenty seven of them! Stuff your dad could read, for certain.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 24, 2012
at 05:32 AM

Thank you. I am e-mailing him now :-)

0
D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on June 25, 2012
at 04:23 AM

If he's up for the reading of books Uffe Ravnskov's latest book "Ignore the Awkward" is excellent.

If he is up for reading online material, send him to http://spacedoc.com , heck check it out yourself to read up on the material!

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 26, 2012
at 02:35 AM

Unfortunately, he doesn't read books :-/

0
Fd1c5e35538fbe2ea5eccb8acd7ae546

(496)

on June 24, 2012
at 01:25 PM

Why not buy him Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fall on.A lot of questions about the correlation between cholesterol and heart disease are explained there.

32123f4f25bdf6a7b70c9c2a719386ed

(396)

on June 24, 2012
at 02:40 PM

And have him read "Know Your Fats" by Mary G. Enig, Ph.D, and "The Cholesterol Myths" by Uffe Ravnskov, MD, PhD.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on June 25, 2012
at 08:55 PM

Right on Terry. Mary Enig's book is GOLDEN.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on June 26, 2012
at 02:35 AM

He won't read a book :-/

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