2

votes

Does SALT make HISTAMINE issues worse?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 08, 2013 at 2:13 PM

As I bumble around trying to combine paleo with selecting foods which agree with me, I'm left wondering if salt makes what I think is a possible histamine reaction worse.

The reaction for me is bloodshot painful eyes, tension headache, scalp muscles tightening, and muscle cramps in feet, sometimes legs & hands.

It might simply be a coincidence, but yesterday, I added lots of salt to home made bone broth and leftover beef (2 days old). I got these symptoms by late evening, then I woke up at 2am extremely dehydrated, and drank 4 large glasses of water.

Of course, the exact same thing might have happened had I not added salt, and yes: I'll have to repeat the experiment without added salt, but I figured I'd ask in case anyone had a similar experience. Yesterday, I started an elimination: not having any fruits or veggies so at least that's not further confusing me.

Thanks, Mike

PS: from what I've read, histamine affects the permeability of cells, and I know sodium needs to be in good balance with potassium, affecting the fluid balance. Of course, I don't think I had any potassium yesterday so maybe it's a perfect storm?

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on July 27, 2013
at 09:17 AM

i think too much sodium (Na/K ratio) can cause generalized inflammation (read salt and T helper cell reactivity) so it can certainly make immune issues such as autoimmunity, allergies, histamine reactions worse.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on March 08, 2013
at 08:55 PM

Thanks August. The more I'm thinking about this last reaction, I think it's less likely to be from the salt and more likely from the two bags of chicken bones/skin I had in the fridge. After things settle down, I'll try to isolate the broth from the beef from the salt. From a broth perspective, it probably makes more sense for me to use the broth from the first 30 minutes of chicken in the pressure cooker: not put those bones & skin in the freezer and use again. As I say that, it seems really obvious, but for some reason it escaped me initially.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on March 08, 2013
at 07:53 PM

If it is histamines, the leftover beef and home made broth would certainly be high in it. I wish there was a histamine pill for doing challenges. Eating foods or dishes with high histamines have other ingredients and really complicates things. I do feel like I'm nearly at the point where I can conclusively prove it's histamines.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11048)

on March 08, 2013
at 06:56 PM

I can't respond to your salt question, but I have read on here that the leftover foods can cause histamine reactions in sensitive people. Perhaps it was the meat you used?

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on March 08, 2013
at 06:50 PM

Today, I decided to have 5 egg yolks, and rice noodles, butter with liberal qty. of salt (basically dropping the left over beef and home made bone broth). If I don't get a building headache by night, I'll be on the verge of concluding it's the broth and left over beef (both high in histamines).

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on March 08, 2013
at 02:48 PM

Thank you so much. Since I had a general sense that things go bad when I'm shaking on salt, I have tried many varieties. Presently, I'm using Readmond RealSalt (ancient sea salt). I've also tried regular morton iodized salt, different varieties of sea salt, that pink hima salt, etc. During the last year, I've tortured myself taking magnesium supplements (all different kinds) because yes: that would be the most logical thing to try. I've had two RBC red blood cell magnesium tests which show I'm fine magnesium wise. Good thoughts.

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4 Answers

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1
35ba1f50dad25c85ac1aa2599fe5c5cb

(2485)

on March 08, 2013
at 05:21 PM

First of all... go ahead and try an elimination diet that reduces sodium (preferably in conjunction with eating enough potassium). Some people will grumble at you with factoids that paleo diets should be higher in sodium, but I have a health condition that's sodium sensitive and I've maintained several different variations of paleo eating at a 1200-1500mg sodium level with no problem whatsoever. (Everything from a strict Whole30 to LCHF to loosey-goosey Primal.)

That being said, two things pop to mind: 1. There are a lot of other minerals and things in bone broth that you could be reacting too. Real bone broth is not the same as a canned concoction of beef flavorings, yeast extract & salt. There's a lot of growth factors and minerals present in the bone broth above and beyond the sodium that you could be reacting too. 2. If you do have a problem with sodium it may not be your overall sodium intake, but rather a bolus effect. Eating lots of salty foods at one sitting (like a large bowl of rich salty soup) after a day of lower sodium paleo foods might have a different effect than spreading out the same amount of sodium throughout the day. And it can be surprisingly easy to drop the rest of your sodium very low, say if you're having an egg/veggie scramble for breakfast with very little added salt, then maybe some leftover chicken over a big veggies salad for lunch... that's very low, maybe 500mg sodium depending on the veggies you choose and then you BOOM hit yourself with 1500mg sodium at dinner... it's not very balanced throughout your day.

0
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on March 08, 2013
at 08:49 PM

I honestly don't think so. I've had improvements from salt. I even put it my coffee now. I don't think I am necessarily getting as much as the SAD people, but I am getting more than Cordain or Boyd would recommend.

I've got the muscle cramps in feet, legs, and a few other similar complaints. I don't know if it is even electrolyte related. I listened to some guy last night talking about vitamin C, and I started wondering if it was that. I kinda stopped taking it when it was suggested anti-oxidants aren't that good for you, but later read that it is junk science. It is the one thing that is probably lacking in my diet, though I don't seem to notice much of anything whether I supplement or not.

So, I thought I'd try again and see if there is any reduction of symptoms.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on March 08, 2013
at 08:55 PM

Thanks August. The more I'm thinking about this last reaction, I think it's less likely to be from the salt and more likely from the two bags of chicken bones/skin I had in the fridge. After things settle down, I'll try to isolate the broth from the beef from the salt. From a broth perspective, it probably makes more sense for me to use the broth from the first 30 minutes of chicken in the pressure cooker: not put those bones & skin in the freezer and use again. As I say that, it seems really obvious, but for some reason it escaped me initially.

0
Ad5592cd70c8aa9ca71b10678f7309de

on March 08, 2013
at 08:08 PM

Hey!! It seems like you had just signs of dehydration, salt helps you absorb water and it helps water be stored properly in your cells. It is important which kind of salt you are using, you want to us a non processed either Himalayan salt or hand harvested sun dried sea salt for optimum nutrition, when you cook or process salt that is when it becomes a toxic substance. Like I said salt helps you retain water, so if you dont want to wake up with cramps potentially try taking like 1/4 tsp of himalayan salt and mix into a quart jar of water and drink that before bed(how close to bed is up to you) That will 1 provide you with minerals that you need (from the salt) and 2 with the proper hydration your body needs as well. If anyone else has most suggestions I would love to hear them.

Thanks,

Jason

0
165202196ea111b32114ef2804a7dd94

on March 08, 2013
at 02:38 PM

That is a good question! I have no answer but I do have a curious question! What kind of salt are you using? And have you tried taking magnesium supplements? Hope you find out what caused this soon! Eye pain and tension headaches are my worst ennemies hope they're not too painful! Goodluck!

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on March 08, 2013
at 02:48 PM

Thank you so much. Since I had a general sense that things go bad when I'm shaking on salt, I have tried many varieties. Presently, I'm using Readmond RealSalt (ancient sea salt). I've also tried regular morton iodized salt, different varieties of sea salt, that pink hima salt, etc. During the last year, I've tortured myself taking magnesium supplements (all different kinds) because yes: that would be the most logical thing to try. I've had two RBC red blood cell magnesium tests which show I'm fine magnesium wise. Good thoughts.

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