21

votes

Could Junk Food Pica Explain Some Part of the Obesity Puzzle?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 26, 2011 at 7:26 PM

Is it possible that a person eating the SAD encounters such a terrible nutrient density that their overall appetite is increased because a greater volume of food is needed to meet the same requirements? Might it be that the noticeable decrease in appetite that I have observed personally is partially due to my frequent liver consumption?

9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd

(5939)

on August 27, 2011
at 07:00 PM

Heh, peter, sorry to disappoint! Travis, there was a decent discussion on the latest Hyperlipid post which you might have seen: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=36840063&postID=2777607291202712147. There's a bunch of circumstantial evidence that it's evidence but no smoking guns yet. I'm actually surprised the research is so limited. But I have it on my agenda to look into this question more deeply at some point.

16e617676c5ac710e5235e0b773edc0b

(2640)

on August 27, 2011
at 01:21 PM

I found that once I added K2 my appetite disappeared completely. It's fascinating!

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on August 26, 2011
at 10:48 PM

Thanks for enlightening and in depth answer, Paul. Question answered! :)

E7a462d6e99fec7e8f0ddda11b34a770

(1638)

on August 26, 2011
at 08:57 PM

And chocolate for the magnesium! (grin)

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on August 26, 2011
at 08:47 PM

Exactly - this is why I take supplements.

Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

(1453)

on August 26, 2011
at 08:42 PM

I am not sure what to think about that. People overeat afaik due to (empty) carb addiction. Maybe vitamins/minerals improve important body functions which regulate obesity and health and this is the reason people eat more and more in addiction to the addictive modern foods if essential vitamins/minerals are missing. Might be an additional factor.

Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

(1453)

on August 26, 2011
at 08:41 PM

I am not sure what to think about that. People overeat afaik due to (empty) carb addiction. Maybe vitamins/minerals improve important body functions which regulate obesity and health and this is the reason people eat more and more in addiction to the addictive modern foods.

Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

(1453)

on August 26, 2011
at 08:40 PM

I am not sure what to think about that. People eat definitely due to (empty) carb addiction. Maybe vitamins/minerals improve important body functions which regulate obesity and health and this is the reason people eat more and more in addiction to the addictive modern foods.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on August 26, 2011
at 08:33 PM

Thanks a lot for the info. I wonder if it's a general increase in appetite, or if it's a more specific craving. I wonder if people crave things like hamburgers for the meat, and the bread, cheese, fries and soda are just along for the ride.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on August 26, 2011
at 08:31 PM

Paul would know better than I, but I think the combination of the neurochemical rewards from junk food and the hunger related to missing micronutrients could factor into why our brains ignore the high leptin signalling from excess fat.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on August 26, 2011
at 08:28 PM

I've been eating liver via braunschweiger every other day (and have pastured eggs on the alternate days) and have also noticed a major decrease in appetite. I think that the missing micronutrients explanation sounds very plausible, especially the ones we need to get from healthy fats.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on August 26, 2011
at 07:49 PM

Any idea what the mechanism might be? Is it something involving the hypothalamus?

Medium avatar

(39821)

on August 26, 2011
at 07:41 PM

Good to see my PhD in Broscience and MS in Brochemistry are coming in handy.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on August 26, 2011
at 07:40 PM

Interesting question.

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6 Answers

13
Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

on August 26, 2011
at 08:17 PM

I know of this study, I came across on gnolls.org:

International Journal of Obesity (2010) 34, 1070???1077;

published online 9 February 2010 Effects of multivitamin and mineral supplementation on adiposity, energy expenditure and lipid profiles in obese Chinese women

???After 26 weeks, compared with the placebo group, the MMS group had significantly lower BW [body weight], BMI, FM [fat mass], TC and LDL-C, significantly higher REE [resting energy expenditure] and HDL-C, as well as a borderline significant trend of lower RQ [respiratory quotient] (P=0.053) and WC [waist circumference] (P=0.071). The calcium group also had significantly higher HDL-C and lower LDL-C levels compared with the placebo group.???

He linked to fatfiction.co.uk, which might be of interest to you:

The body???s hunger signals are a cry for nutrients. Sure that can be a hunger for energy (calories), but more often than not it's vitamins, mineral, essential fats or protein. And this hunger will drive you to find those nutrients, even if it means putting on extra weight to find them. It means obesity and all the related diseases like type 2 diabetes, various cancers, gallstones (see D Day) and many more are due to long-term deficiencies in nutrients, be they vitamins, minerals, carbs, protein or fats.

He talks about the well known historic vitamin deficiency epidemics which occured still until the beginning of the 20. century, millions died of vitamin deficiency without knowing the cause. Vitamins were first broadly discovered around 1910-1940.

Famous is the beri-beri outbreak in the late 1800's when polished rice became widespread, people didn't know that there are tiny things in food which prevent disease.

In the early 1900s hundreds of thousands died of Pellagra, due to consumption of corn, which lacks niacin if not properly prepared.

In 1959, industrial production techniques made white flour cheaper and so more popular than whole grain. White flour is not only lacking nutrients, it actively absorbs them, and can damage your GI tract, which prevents you absorbing minerals in other foods. People would have died of diseases caused by the absence of essential vitamins and minerals but they didn't this time.

Instead, this time around, food was cheap and plentiful, so instead people ate until their bodies told them they had all the nutrients they needed, which happened to be several thousand calories later. And so they get fat. So instead, people are now dying of obesity-related illnesses like type 2 diabetes and CVD diseases. Obesity is a disease caused by nutritional deficiency too.

In the late 1970s, US & UK governments recommended people to stop eating saturated fat, and more grain. Manufacturers replaced fat with sugar, which also strips nutrients. Which means you need to eat more just to survive.

White flour and sugar - that's all you need to turn a nation obese.

He calls it the deficiency theory and you can find some info in his site.

He reports that animals also become fatter these days. What about soil depletion as a major factor in mineral deficiency besides poor diet?

"A declining soil fertility, due to a lack of organic material, major elements, and trace minerals, is responsible for poor crops and in turn for pathological conditions in animals fed deficient foods from such soils, and that mankind is no exception. NPK formulas, as legislated and enforced by State Departments of Agriculture, mean malnutrition, attack by insects, bacteria and fungi, weed takeover, crop loss in dry weather, and general loss of mental acuity in the population, leading to degenerative metabolic disease and early death." -Dr. William A. Albrecht, Chairman of the Department of Soils at the University of Missouri

"In the future, we will not be able to rely anymore on our premise that the consumption of a varied balanced diet will provide all the essential trace elements, because such a diet will be very difficult to obtain for millions of people." - Dr. Walter Mertz, U.S. Department of Agriculture, told to congress in 1977.

Percentage of Average Mineral Depletion From Soil During The Past 100 Years (1992 Earth Summit Statistics): North America 85%, South America 76%, Asia 76%, Africa 74%, Europe 72%, Australia 55%.

My personal experience with eating nutrient dense food is very positive. Since frequent consumption of liver, raw egg yolks, no junk food and taking a multivitamin/mineral I don't feel this kind of deep hunger anymore. I am calm. I can go without food for a long period of time and when I eat it is more of something like replenishing my body than a necessity. It is subtle but something has changed. May be due to the lack of carbs and addictive foods, though. But directly after eating liver I feel indeed a greater satiation, it not comparable with the satiation from "normal" foods.

Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

(1453)

on August 26, 2011
at 08:41 PM

I am not sure what to think about that. People overeat afaik due to (empty) carb addiction. Maybe vitamins/minerals improve important body functions which regulate obesity and health and this is the reason people eat more and more in addiction to the addictive modern foods.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on August 26, 2011
at 08:33 PM

Thanks a lot for the info. I wonder if it's a general increase in appetite, or if it's a more specific craving. I wonder if people crave things like hamburgers for the meat, and the bread, cheese, fries and soda are just along for the ride.

E7a462d6e99fec7e8f0ddda11b34a770

(1638)

on August 26, 2011
at 08:57 PM

And chocolate for the magnesium! (grin)

Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

(1453)

on August 26, 2011
at 08:40 PM

I am not sure what to think about that. People eat definitely due to (empty) carb addiction. Maybe vitamins/minerals improve important body functions which regulate obesity and health and this is the reason people eat more and more in addiction to the addictive modern foods.

Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

(1453)

on August 26, 2011
at 08:42 PM

I am not sure what to think about that. People overeat afaik due to (empty) carb addiction. Maybe vitamins/minerals improve important body functions which regulate obesity and health and this is the reason people eat more and more in addiction to the addictive modern foods if essential vitamins/minerals are missing. Might be an additional factor.

4
F20de59ec7ebaee2b2352444218ac1d2

(130)

on August 26, 2011
at 08:00 PM

I think it's quite likely- and what's even worse, is that our vegetables have been plummeting in nutrition for 50 years or so as well, so even if you try to eat well, you're still likely facing a disadvantage.

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on August 26, 2011
at 08:47 PM

Exactly - this is why I take supplements.

2
A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

on August 26, 2011
at 10:57 PM

Supplements taken religiously make my appetite plummet, I take:

K2 CLO Alpha lipoic acid Tocotrienols. selenium

16e617676c5ac710e5235e0b773edc0b

(2640)

on August 27, 2011
at 01:21 PM

I found that once I added K2 my appetite disappeared completely. It's fascinating!

2
957a563c7e4a165663fd3c71207c39da

on August 26, 2011
at 10:47 PM

I love questions like this ....pondering these issues and opening them up to the community eventually lead to solid answers when the right people either pick it up and do the research, or use their expertise to connect the dots of existing knowledge, so to speak.

Personally, I feel more satiated and calm eating more fat - bacon, coconut oil, eggs primarily. I think in my case it's a combibation of the energy properties of fat - slower burning leading to steadier levels, no sugar implications in the fat to mess around with hunger levels AND the fat soluble vitamins in fattier food. These factors combined mean I'm not looking around for more food inappropriately as it's just not necessary.

2
9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd

on August 26, 2011
at 07:47 PM

Yes, I believe so.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on August 26, 2011
at 07:49 PM

Any idea what the mechanism might be? Is it something involving the hypothalamus?

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on August 26, 2011
at 10:48 PM

Thanks for enlightening and in depth answer, Paul. Question answered! :)

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on August 26, 2011
at 08:31 PM

Paul would know better than I, but I think the combination of the neurochemical rewards from junk food and the hunger related to missing micronutrients could factor into why our brains ignore the high leptin signalling from excess fat.

9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd

(5939)

on August 27, 2011
at 07:00 PM

Heh, peter, sorry to disappoint! Travis, there was a decent discussion on the latest Hyperlipid post which you might have seen: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=36840063&postID=2777607291202712147. There's a bunch of circumstantial evidence that it's evidence but no smoking guns yet. I'm actually surprised the research is so limited. But I have it on my agenda to look into this question more deeply at some point.

1
61a27a8b7ec2264b1821923b271eaf54

(3175)

on August 26, 2011
at 07:33 PM

I've never read anything close to that, and I do a lot of reading. But it seems entirely possible, even it is is 'bro-science'. I'll bet you could sell a bunch of books with that approach.

I have started obsessively checking the micronutrients in the food I eat. It is ridiculous how little nutrients were in my diet for 40+ years. Since eating better I feel way better and labs prove increase in vitality.

Good job!

Medium avatar

(39821)

on August 26, 2011
at 07:41 PM

Good to see my PhD in Broscience and MS in Brochemistry are coming in handy.

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