6

votes

Do you aspire to be an elite runner?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 18, 2011 at 8:55 PM

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Kim Smith of NZ is an elite marathoner whose goal was to win the Boston marathon in record time. Would you ever want to have the physique of her? She looks like a stick figure vegan that we see a lot of.

Story is here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/4903689/Painful-end-for-Kimberly-Smith-in-Boston-Marathon

This relates directly to the thread about paleo and running here: http://paleohacks.com/questions/33314/cross-country-running-and-paleo#axzz1JuNiAY92

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100 meter Sprinter Usain Bolt. Looks like a guy that is going to live a long time with long telomeres.

Chris Johnson, running back, Tennessee Titans, 4.2 secs for 40 yards. Fastest runner in the NFL. Fastest sprinter also.

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For balance as asked for by poster Payam...Mirinda Carfrae, Iron Man Champion. She looks a little spindly to me. How long are her telomeres? Only time will tell.

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Chrissie Wellington Iron Man Record Setter.

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http://lh5.ggpht.com/_i44vJs_uNB8/SPOG2YXcP-I/AAAAAAAABmE/qduOeDeuAbA/IMG_1157.JPG

To be an elite runner, with all the training miles, do they all have to look a bit undernourished? Or do the two Ironman ladies look like what our ancesters looked like before the invention of agriculture? and the invention of dwarf wheat ground into flour?

And just for Payam, I put up this guy. Don't know who he is, but I expect he is a marathoner. Long telomeres in a marathoner? What do you think ladies? Long telomeres in a potential?

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/sports/othersports/20waitz.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto

And finally, Marathoner, Grete Waitz, the splendid Norwegian runner who set a world mark in her first marathon, in New York City in 1978, died of cancer on Tuesday in Oslo. She was 57. She was an elite runner all her life. How long were her telomeres. Did she shorten them by running? Lots of people die of cancer every day. But did running cause her life to be shortened. We will never know. But one would think that elite athletes are the epitome of health. Maybe true...maybe not.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

LOL.......nice assumption there.

C08776f90fb24932bc4ac05c68ecb8d0

(20)

on June 14, 2012
at 08:39 PM

There's a significant amount of research on distance running and telomere length. The results show that aging distance runners have significantly longer telomeres than others their age. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/phys-ed-how-exercising-keeps-your-cells-young/ http://www.edinformatics.com/news/exercise_and_aging.htm http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20064545?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

C08776f90fb24932bc4ac05c68ecb8d0

(20)

on June 14, 2012
at 08:38 PM

RG73 is completely wrong on this. There's a significant amount of research on distance running and telomere length. The results show that aging distance runners have significantly longer telomeres than others their age. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/phys-ed-how-exercising-keeps-your-cells-young/ http://www.edinformatics.com/news/exercise_and_aging.htm http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20064545?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

C08776f90fb24932bc4ac05c68ecb8d0

(20)

on June 14, 2012
at 08:35 PM

Actually there has been significant research on telomere length and endurance training. RG73 has it completely wrong. Distance runners have significantly longer telomeres than sedentary people and power athletes as they get older. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/phys-ed-how-exercising-keeps-your-cells-young/http://www.edinformatics.com/news/exercise_and_aging.htmhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20064545?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on June 07, 2012
at 02:36 PM

i've never taken steroids and never intend to, but I'd still rather be the guy on the right roiding up vs the guy on the left withering away.

F95867bb112c9a5248f420465d50d33e

(25)

on June 07, 2012
at 10:59 AM

he used to be on them!

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on June 07, 2012
at 09:43 AM

good grief. Way to find extreme images. THe guy on the right is probably on steroids, too.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on June 07, 2012
at 09:42 AM

@RG73 thank you for a voice of reason. Just because someone says "telomeres shorten with endurance exercise" doesn't make it so.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on June 07, 2012
at 09:40 AM

That's an important point. Weight is a disadvantage if you want to run fast. It's more efficient to be lean (even skinny) if you want to cover long distances. You don't need the bulk, just endurance.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on June 07, 2012
at 06:14 AM

I don't get the short telomeres angle, RG73. Have these been measured? In repeated experiments? on humans?

87e9b93ebba7282403395c9e2ad887a5

(150)

on April 30, 2011
at 04:12 PM

I'm not sure Mackenzie's diet but he does have some out of the box thinking with the training. I know he's not into carb fueling. The Inuit traditional diet would be Paleo (or very close to it) and very low/no carb. And some of those guys run 20 or 30 miles with the dog sleds. Maybe Paleo Inuit diet is what I should consider. I just have to get myself used to eating all the organ meats. lol

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on April 23, 2011
at 01:50 AM

That is completely crazy. He's lucky he didn't drop dead.

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 22, 2011
at 02:13 AM

His telomeres are practically gone after that. Seriously though, that was totally amazing. Say what you will about endurance running, but pulling that off is just ridiculous. Especially on your first try??

4e813fcf7266312684862b945c1c3281

(462)

on April 21, 2011
at 11:48 PM

I'm not a big fan of marathon running as it does not fit my goals, but I have been to many marathons and tri's to support my martial arts buddy who runs them. There are tons of super fit, well proportioned people there. This reminds me of the "everything causes cancer" crowd where no matter what I eat I'm farked and am going to die of tumors from eating brocoli and spinnach... The amount people are stressing over this crap is probably worse for you than running a marathon is...

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 19, 2011
at 11:50 PM

No, I don't want to have to defend marathon runner physiques! My only point was that the original post used one of the thinnest runners. I think we can all agree that the most impressive physiques are had by female billiards players. Oh Jeanette Lee...

B4aa2df25a6bf17d22556667ff896170

(851)

on April 19, 2011
at 09:14 PM

i love how in your edit of your original post you still cherry picked 2 of the 6 athletes i named lol! http://tosic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/dean-karnazes.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0qz7CE6-ZeA/R-gINK3MI1I/AAAAAAAABDg/ZxiCZiqzlVA/s400/goggins.jpeg

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 19, 2011
at 03:35 PM

btw... i was primarily commenting on yoannah's answer. and Kamal, I agree that we judge people based on their looks. right or wrong, it will never ever go away.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on April 19, 2011
at 02:35 PM

Kamal: let's compare the top 100 marathoners (men and women) and the top 100 sprinters (say anything less than 200m). Then we'll see a fair comparison.

Medium avatar

(3259)

on April 19, 2011
at 12:39 PM

Mackenzie's the man. I think he eats paleo too.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 19, 2011
at 04:16 AM

you're correct to a degree but looks and body composition can and do hold some value.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 19, 2011
at 03:32 AM

yes this girl is adorable

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 19, 2011
at 03:08 AM

When I looked up Crossfit Games winners, the variety of different body types was surprising. Same with marathon runners, same with football wide receivers, etc etc. Definitely hard to assess fitness by looks. I just think judging people based on their looks is built into the human genome, as is looking down on others based on their looks.

A68f24168bc0de414a038037e287b581

(4896)

on April 19, 2011
at 03:07 AM

my god, she's gorgeous! o_o

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on April 19, 2011
at 02:41 AM

It was really surprising to me! I have been running 5ks and half marathons for YEARS and tried improving my time before and just ended up with sore knees or hips. Now my times are improving without trying! CRAZY!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 19, 2011
at 01:34 AM

To be fair, most marathon runners work jobs where they sit much of the time and have questionable eating and sleeping practices. Hunter gatherers that ran long distances (maybe not 26.2 miles, but pretty long) had a bit of an edge there. I can't imagine that being able to run a few miles comfortably is selected against.

535633b57c4a4940d1e913e7a12ee791

(1013)

on April 19, 2011
at 01:17 AM

Running had to be central to the Paleo hunter way of life. But 26 miles! Anytime you get sick and drop from exhaustion and total fatigue like I have seen people do at a marathon finish line, well that don't look like a healthy activity to me. Just my opinion.

535633b57c4a4940d1e913e7a12ee791

(1013)

on April 19, 2011
at 01:09 AM

Its true Southwest Native Americans and Mexican Indian tribes ran down deer. I don't have any statistics on their longevity.

535633b57c4a4940d1e913e7a12ee791

(1013)

on April 19, 2011
at 01:04 AM

Your body needs time to recover and that is usually longer than people think. You are on the right track sherpamelissa. Less is more.

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 19, 2011
at 01:01 AM

I'm well aware that telomeres decrease in length with age, just not that they decrease in length in response to distance running. I posted several recent papers in response to Dr. K in another thread demonstrating protective effects of running on telomere length (although the mechanisms there are fuzzy too). That we'd be adapted to do something that kills us sooner doesn't make a lot of evolutionary sense. Therefore, I'm waiting for a definitive paper(s) demonstrating a mechanistic process whereby telomeres get shorter faster via endurance activities. Hand waving doesn't count.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 19, 2011
at 12:29 AM

Also, Dr. K...how are we going to understand your posts if you don't get that blog up soon? Don't forget to put the address in your paleohacks profile.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 19, 2011
at 12:20 AM

Uh oh, this is a clearly documented case of...PALEO FAIL! (observing things through a paleo lens and making false assumptions, perhaps because of the tint of said lens)

Medium avatar

(5136)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:57 PM

@Dr. K - Actually Kara Goucher was born in '78 and Kim Smith in '81! biomechanics and overtraining?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:45 PM

No telomere point here, just saying that the skinny minny blonde girl in the original post does not mean that you have to look like a skeleton to run marathons well. I live in Boston and saw many runners today-- some very thin ones, some thicker ones, all shapes and sizes. That being said, the marathon culture and the associated competitiveness is scary, especially when they have very little idea what it's doing to them. Melissa, if you ever look like the blondie above, it's off between us :)

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:34 PM

http://longevity.about.com/od/researchandmedicine/p/telomeres.htm It isn't a mystery. It is just science.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:28 PM

They have been doing it for hundreds of thousand of years by whatever means and tools that were necessary to survive prior to agriculture. The proof is that we are the living proof they were successful.

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:19 PM

They all have short telomeres.

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:18 PM

I mean Dr. K could at least attempt to make an evolutionary trade off hypothesis--yes, persistence hunting decreases telomere length (through mystery mechanism), but that decrease in life span is traded off with greater fecundity. Seriously, how many fleet footed African herbivores do you think you're going to spear with craptastic early- to mid-Acheulean hand axe? My guess is zero. Running them to exhaustion, maybe you might eat dinner that day.

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:13 PM

So now running doesn't equal marathoning, but in the other thread it was any running over 400m is going to destroy your telomeres through a mystical mechanism. So running is somewhere between not more than 400 m and a marathon. Unless you're an NFL player, in which case you get short telomeres too. From sprinting. Umm...

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:08 PM

What assumptions did I make Dr. K?

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on April 18, 2011
at 10:53 PM

Touché!! Touché!!

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:47 PM

running does not equal marathoning......context!!!!

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:45 PM

most marathoners do because they must.....and that is why you should not. the smartest of us learn from others mistakes. Some here like to run.....fine. Just like chronic disease too and be congruent.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:44 PM

the guy on the right has a lot longer telomeres.....you can bank your house on it.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:43 PM

considering their age difference......Dr K stands by his points. This young thing has more stem cells to replace the ones she is killing with marathoning while the older runner has already killed off her best stem cells and is now pushing her genome to shortened telomeres and eventually to failure like all endurance runners do with time and carbs. See Kamal context really does matter.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:32 PM

i changed my mind- im not running any damn marathon. thats some crazy shizz. i just read that girlfriend here had a baby six months ago! those are some good genes.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:13 PM

Damn. I've got the arms Kamal, but the abs are never gonna happen. ;)

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on April 18, 2011
at 09:46 PM

i might think about considering running a marathon if i could look like her.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 18, 2011
at 09:23 PM

To Ron or Don or Dick, Kim may be just a stick, but she's my girl. What the hell, she's my girl, and I LOOOOOVE HER. (slightly altered rendition of a Tom Lehrer song)

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 18, 2011
at 08:57 PM

You're baiting me are you not? Now post a pic of Bolt or of Chris Johnson. Balance and fairness. LOL

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23 Answers

8
4e813fcf7266312684862b945c1c3281

(462)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:40 PM

WTF is up with all the hate on runners. I got the Paleo Evolution and he said that running was useless, caused cancer, male pattern baldness, global warming and the extinction of the dinosaurs.

Running is a critical cross training component for almost all sports.

As for the stick figure people you are posting I agree with the person who said you cherry picked the hell out of them. Go to a marathon yousrself and look at the lead group take off. You might see some Skeletors, but most look very strong and fit.

Many sports put requirements on your body that hurt you long term. Do I want to look like a stick? Uh no, but I also don't want to look like a 350 lbs lineman, or a sumo wrestler either.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:47 PM

running does not equal marathoning......context!!!!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 19, 2011
at 01:34 AM

To be fair, most marathon runners work jobs where they sit much of the time and have questionable eating and sleeping practices. Hunter gatherers that ran long distances (maybe not 26.2 miles, but pretty long) had a bit of an edge there. I can't imagine that being able to run a few miles comfortably is selected against.

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:13 PM

So now running doesn't equal marathoning, but in the other thread it was any running over 400m is going to destroy your telomeres through a mystical mechanism. So running is somewhere between not more than 400 m and a marathon. Unless you're an NFL player, in which case you get short telomeres too. From sprinting. Umm...

535633b57c4a4940d1e913e7a12ee791

(1013)

on April 19, 2011
at 01:17 AM

Running had to be central to the Paleo hunter way of life. But 26 miles! Anytime you get sick and drop from exhaustion and total fatigue like I have seen people do at a marathon finish line, well that don't look like a healthy activity to me. Just my opinion.

4e813fcf7266312684862b945c1c3281

(462)

on April 21, 2011
at 11:48 PM

I'm not a big fan of marathon running as it does not fit my goals, but I have been to many marathons and tri's to support my martial arts buddy who runs them. There are tons of super fit, well proportioned people there. This reminds me of the "everything causes cancer" crowd where no matter what I eat I'm farked and am going to die of tumors from eating brocoli and spinnach... The amount people are stressing over this crap is probably worse for you than running a marathon is...

3
9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:22 PM

do-you-aspire-to-be-an-elite-runner?

This paleo endurance runner is all scrawny. He just ran down a 500-ish pound kudu. That obviously isn't functional muscle he's got at all....

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:08 PM

What assumptions did I make Dr. K?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

LOL.......nice assumption there.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on April 18, 2011
at 10:53 PM

Touché!! Touché!!

3
21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 18, 2011
at 09:05 PM

do-you-aspire-to-be-an-elite-runner?do-you-aspire-to-be-an-elite-runner?

I aspire to find a girl who looks like Kara Goucher, who finished 5th at today's Boston Marathon. As Dr. K hinted at, cherrypicking sometimes only gets the sicklier berries.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 19, 2011
at 12:20 AM

Uh oh, this is a clearly documented case of...PALEO FAIL! (observing things through a paleo lens and making false assumptions, perhaps because of the tint of said lens)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:45 PM

No telomere point here, just saying that the skinny minny blonde girl in the original post does not mean that you have to look like a skeleton to run marathons well. I live in Boston and saw many runners today-- some very thin ones, some thicker ones, all shapes and sizes. That being said, the marathon culture and the associated competitiveness is scary, especially when they have very little idea what it's doing to them. Melissa, if you ever look like the blondie above, it's off between us :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 19, 2011
at 12:29 AM

Also, Dr. K...how are we going to understand your posts if you don't get that blog up soon? Don't forget to put the address in your paleohacks profile.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:13 PM

Damn. I've got the arms Kamal, but the abs are never gonna happen. ;)

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on April 19, 2011
at 02:35 PM

Kamal: let's compare the top 100 marathoners (men and women) and the top 100 sprinters (say anything less than 200m). Then we'll see a fair comparison.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 19, 2011
at 11:50 PM

No, I don't want to have to defend marathon runner physiques! My only point was that the original post used one of the thinnest runners. I think we can all agree that the most impressive physiques are had by female billiards players. Oh Jeanette Lee...

Medium avatar

(5136)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:57 PM

@Dr. K - Actually Kara Goucher was born in '78 and Kim Smith in '81! biomechanics and overtraining?

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on April 18, 2011
at 09:46 PM

i might think about considering running a marathon if i could look like her.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:43 PM

considering their age difference......Dr K stands by his points. This young thing has more stem cells to replace the ones she is killing with marathoning while the older runner has already killed off her best stem cells and is now pushing her genome to shortened telomeres and eventually to failure like all endurance runners do with time and carbs. See Kamal context really does matter.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:32 PM

i changed my mind- im not running any damn marathon. thats some crazy shizz. i just read that girlfriend here had a baby six months ago! those are some good genes.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 19, 2011
at 03:32 AM

yes this girl is adorable

A68f24168bc0de414a038037e287b581

(4896)

on April 19, 2011
at 03:07 AM

my god, she's gorgeous! o_o

2
C08776f90fb24932bc4ac05c68ecb8d0

on June 14, 2012
at 08:25 PM

My god is there a lot of unfocused rage at running here. It's also shockingly ignorant. Distance running has been shown to increase telomere length in more than one study, while sprinting and weight training have not. In fact older people putting in an average of 50 miles / week prevent 75% of normal age-related telomere shortening.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/phys-ed-how-exercising-keeps-your-cells-young/

2
01adafcb4dd4147c6af543f61eee60a8

on June 07, 2012
at 06:51 AM

The hate on distance running is getting ridiculous in the paleoworld.

2
A3c56c85290f748410a6f340ddd552b3

on June 07, 2012
at 04:39 AM

The question wasn't about "running" or "running a marathon". It was about being an ELITE distance runner. Big, big, big difference.

ELITE runners are self-selecting by their genes, not by their desires. If you have the correct body makeup (meaning, you chose the right parents) to be successful as a competitive marathon runner AND you also train like hell, you can do it. If you don't have the body makeup and you still train like hell, you could be what they call "sub-elite" which means you could win local races and the like.

This says NOTHING about damage that may be done or your career's longevity.

All it says is that 99% of folks are not "allowed" to choose to be an elite marathoner. Those of us who like running but failed the light&lean lottery definitely can get wistful when seeing the genetically gifted sail through a race, longevity hindrances or no.

2
26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

on April 19, 2011
at 03:30 AM

I have never aspired to be a distance runner. Boring and uncomfortable. Sometimes I run a bit. I bike to get where I need to go (not far).

I will have the OP know that I have the same body type as those marathon runners no matter what (I will say I think I look more filled-out and youthfully pretty than the examples you chose). I have a spindly-armed extra-lean upper body and only gain mass in my hips and legs. I lift heavy, eat primal with tons of calories and about 1g of protein per pound bodyweight, and do very little cardio. I look just like my father.

I would prefer to be a muscular, proportionate person like an elite sprinter, yes. But I always going to be small and thin, the type of body which lends itself very well to distance running since we have so little to carry.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on June 07, 2012
at 09:40 AM

That's an important point. Weight is a disadvantage if you want to run fast. It's more efficient to be lean (even skinny) if you want to cover long distances. You don't need the bulk, just endurance.

2
A68f24168bc0de414a038037e287b581

on April 19, 2011
at 03:04 AM

and again we are going into judging people's health based on their looks. Cherry picking is a very poor way to prove anything.

I had a friend who was into rock climbing (as many other of my friends years ago), he was stick-thin, very tall and you wouldn't say he was athletic even. But he could climb very difficult paths and could do pull ups on his middle fingers only.

Looks can be deceptive. Both directions (too skinny, too muscled-up, too fat, too think etc.)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 19, 2011
at 03:08 AM

When I looked up Crossfit Games winners, the variety of different body types was surprising. Same with marathon runners, same with football wide receivers, etc etc. Definitely hard to assess fitness by looks. I just think judging people based on their looks is built into the human genome, as is looking down on others based on their looks.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 19, 2011
at 03:35 PM

btw... i was primarily commenting on yoannah's answer. and Kamal, I agree that we judge people based on their looks. right or wrong, it will never ever go away.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 19, 2011
at 04:16 AM

you're correct to a degree but looks and body composition can and do hold some value.

2
87e9b93ebba7282403395c9e2ad887a5

on April 18, 2011
at 11:07 PM

Anyone here look at Brian MacKenzie. The guy is ripped and does 100 mile ultra-marathons. Granted he doesn't run the mileage others do. He follows Crossfit Endurance. I think there is definitely some more balance with runners.

Also, the Inuit will run 20 to 30 miles with the dog sleds through snow. And they don't look like Vegan sticks. Maybe there's a diet connection. lol

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:19 PM

They all have short telomeres.

Medium avatar

(3259)

on April 19, 2011
at 12:39 PM

Mackenzie's the man. I think he eats paleo too.

87e9b93ebba7282403395c9e2ad887a5

(150)

on April 30, 2011
at 04:12 PM

I'm not sure Mackenzie's diet but he does have some out of the box thinking with the training. I know he's not into carb fueling. The Inuit traditional diet would be Paleo (or very close to it) and very low/no carb. And some of those guys run 20 or 30 miles with the dog sleds. Maybe Paleo Inuit diet is what I should consider. I just have to get myself used to eating all the organ meats. lol

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on June 07, 2012
at 06:14 AM

I don't get the short telomeres angle, RG73. Have these been measured? In repeated experiments? on humans?

C08776f90fb24932bc4ac05c68ecb8d0

(20)

on June 14, 2012
at 08:35 PM

Actually there has been significant research on telomere length and endurance training. RG73 has it completely wrong. Distance runners have significantly longer telomeres than sedentary people and power athletes as they get older. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/phys-ed-how-exercising-keeps-your-cells-young/http://www.edinformatics.com/news/exercise_and_aging.htmhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20064545?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

C08776f90fb24932bc4ac05c68ecb8d0

(20)

on June 14, 2012
at 08:38 PM

RG73 is completely wrong on this. There's a significant amount of research on distance running and telomere length. The results show that aging distance runners have significantly longer telomeres than others their age. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/phys-ed-how-exercising-keeps-your-cells-young/ http://www.edinformatics.com/news/exercise_and_aging.htm http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20064545?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

2
7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

on April 18, 2011
at 10:16 PM

I don't aspire to be an elite runner, but I do enjoy running. I have fun running 5Ks with my friends and doing sprint triathlons. I like to push myself to do things that are new to me and challenge my fitness. I don't expect to win any of them. Though I did win 3rd in my age group once, LOL.

I gained weight while training for my first couple 1/2 marathons because I really loved the excuses to eat crap that carb loading gave me.

I've actually found this year that my 5k time has improved now that I'm doing LESS training. I've sped up by a full minute per mile and I attribute that to the fact that my body is not in a constant state of fatigue.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on April 19, 2011
at 02:41 AM

It was really surprising to me! I have been running 5ks and half marathons for YEARS and tried improving my time before and just ended up with sore knees or hips. Now my times are improving without trying! CRAZY!

535633b57c4a4940d1e913e7a12ee791

(1013)

on April 19, 2011
at 01:04 AM

Your body needs time to recover and that is usually longer than people think. You are on the right track sherpamelissa. Less is more.

1
E7dc4f2e3998906dd3213973a3c10d50

on April 18, 2011
at 11:15 PM

I figure if I can run a 5K without wanting to take a dirt nap that's all the endurance running I'll really need. Now sprints and weightlifting, on the other hand - that's the good stuff as far as I'm concerned.

1
263e2d3f741d1ecb0886454e977f4e6f

on April 18, 2011
at 10:51 PM

Distance runners are by nature very lean compared to sprinters. You wouldn't want to carry 5 extra pounds in mass for 23 miles, as that would really drag you down. Because my longest distance I ever plan on running would be 10K, I'll take the sprinters body :)

1
06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:36 PM

From Richard Attenborough's Persistence Hunting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wI-9RJi0Qo

Does his body composition look like he has long telomeres for long life or short telomeres?

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:34 PM

http://longevity.about.com/od/researchandmedicine/p/telomeres.htm It isn't a mystery. It is just science.

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:18 PM

I mean Dr. K could at least attempt to make an evolutionary trade off hypothesis--yes, persistence hunting decreases telomere length (through mystery mechanism), but that decrease in life span is traded off with greater fecundity. Seriously, how many fleet footed African herbivores do you think you're going to spear with craptastic early- to mid-Acheulean hand axe? My guess is zero. Running them to exhaustion, maybe you might eat dinner that day.

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 19, 2011
at 01:01 AM

I'm well aware that telomeres decrease in length with age, just not that they decrease in length in response to distance running. I posted several recent papers in response to Dr. K in another thread demonstrating protective effects of running on telomere length (although the mechanisms there are fuzzy too). That we'd be adapted to do something that kills us sooner doesn't make a lot of evolutionary sense. Therefore, I'm waiting for a definitive paper(s) demonstrating a mechanistic process whereby telomeres get shorter faster via endurance activities. Hand waving doesn't count.

535633b57c4a4940d1e913e7a12ee791

(1013)

on April 19, 2011
at 01:09 AM

Its true Southwest Native Americans and Mexican Indian tribes ran down deer. I don't have any statistics on their longevity.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on April 18, 2011
at 11:28 PM

They have been doing it for hundreds of thousand of years by whatever means and tools that were necessary to survive prior to agriculture. The proof is that we are the living proof they were successful.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on June 07, 2012
at 09:42 AM

@RG73 thank you for a voice of reason. Just because someone says "telomeres shorten with endurance exercise" doesn't make it so.

C08776f90fb24932bc4ac05c68ecb8d0

(20)

on June 14, 2012
at 08:39 PM

There's a significant amount of research on distance running and telomere length. The results show that aging distance runners have significantly longer telomeres than others their age. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/phys-ed-how-exercising-keeps-your-cells-young/ http://www.edinformatics.com/news/exercise_and_aging.htm http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20064545?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

1
B4aa2df25a6bf17d22556667ff896170

(851)

on April 18, 2011
at 09:32 PM

love the cherry picking of pictures in this thread haha. To be fair, look up dean karnazes or david goggins- Ultramarathon runners who are pretty damn ripped. Or look up chris lieto, chris mccormack, chrissie wellington, or mirinda carfrae- some of the top ironman athletes.

1
535633b57c4a4940d1e913e7a12ee791

(1013)

on April 18, 2011
at 09:17 PM

Most runners over-train. I think you can be a marathon runner without looking sick. Plenty of evidence that different ancient cultures/tribes ran long distances. But still, I don't think running long distances improve your health AT ALL.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:45 PM

most marathoners do because they must.....and that is why you should not. the smartest of us learn from others mistakes. Some here like to run.....fine. Just like chronic disease too and be congruent.

1
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 18, 2011
at 09:05 PM

marathon elite runner? >>> sorry no thanks.

Look at this YouTube vid of these women 'finishing' a marathon.

so unnecessary. so sad.

Yah you could say we're all cherry picking here to push a point, but you will not see a world class sprinter look like the guy on the left. but you see it all the time in marathon runners.

Here you go Doc. (per your comment request)

do-you-aspire-to-be-an-elite-runner?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 18, 2011
at 10:44 PM

the guy on the right has a lot longer telomeres.....you can bank your house on it.

F95867bb112c9a5248f420465d50d33e

(25)

on June 07, 2012
at 10:59 AM

he used to be on them!

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on June 07, 2012
at 09:43 AM

good grief. Way to find extreme images. THe guy on the right is probably on steroids, too.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on June 07, 2012
at 02:36 PM

i've never taken steroids and never intend to, but I'd still rather be the guy on the right roiding up vs the guy on the left withering away.

1
3ccab807e2b8bb1d050c3584d9c1dd12

(487)

on April 18, 2011
at 09:03 PM

As I learn more, I now think of Marathon runners something akin to pro boxers or football players...

on one hand you're an athlete or the other hand...this will take years off your life...

0
F68f4c8376130e5dc7bfc411ae669048

on July 11, 2013
at 04:32 PM

YOU COULD LOOK LIKE STEVE PREFONTAINE:

link text

SEE, HE EVEN WALKS ON AIR:

link text

AND HE LAUGHED AT PALEO:

link text

Remember: Pre always wins. Eat a bag of dicks you runny shits-assed shits. Nailed it!

0
E95216c62a14d21c371fcbf2fed8469b

(1867)

on June 14, 2012
at 09:52 PM

I rather look like Serena Williams.

0
F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

on June 07, 2012
at 10:31 AM

Nearley all types of professional sports are bad for your body in the long term. Whether a pro sprinter or marathon runner, they are all doing damage to their bodies. Attaining such a peak level of fitness (not health)is done through vigorous and frequent training. Paleo lifestyle is about health and longevity. Not about wearing down your body for "performance" or maximal "fitness". Remember there is a difference between health and fitness, as Dr. Doug McGuff states.

0
95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on April 22, 2011
at 03:29 AM

Way before my paleo/primal days, I enjoyed sprinting the most. It's still my favorite. I'm not much on marathoning. A 5K is about the limit of my interest in distance running.

0
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 22, 2011
at 02:02 AM

OMG this is complete insanity.

marathon + 99 miles in 29 hours

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on April 23, 2011
at 01:50 AM

That is completely crazy. He's lucky he didn't drop dead.

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 22, 2011
at 02:13 AM

His telomeres are practically gone after that. Seriously though, that was totally amazing. Say what you will about endurance running, but pulling that off is just ridiculous. Especially on your first try??

0
Medium avatar

(5136)

on April 18, 2011
at 09:04 PM

every day is Halloween... (top pic)

you know, the Chicago Marathon course used to run right by my house, and we were right where people hit "the wall", about mile 20. We used to go out with some lawn chairs and bloody marys and go watch. Though I don't think marathons or such things are very good for you, the human aspect of it all was still pretty inspiring. The thing I found most fascinating were the HUGE differences in biomechanics. One person would run by at a super fast pace and look like they were hardly even working, and others would go at the same speed and it was clearly a huge effort for them. It's amazing how pronounced the differences are when you're watching people side by side. I wonder just how much of an effect that really has (for any exercise) on how damaging it can be to your system.

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