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Low carb diets and refeeds?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 09, 2013 at 12:36 PM

How often are re-feeds necessary to replace glycogen and up thyroid?

I would assume the leaner the person/more lbm the more refeeds are needed.

So if I am 10% bodyfat at 200lbs then maybe 2 a week as per anabolic diet advice, where as for a fatty at around 25% maybe one day a week with only clean sources and low fat intake to increase absorption?

9f52f85c3964445d7b16c94a890f6136

on August 11, 2013
at 08:32 PM

It has only been a couple days but I have to say I am enjoying eating this way and not seeing any negative downsides at all to it.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on August 10, 2013
at 12:35 AM

I would avoid the grapeseed oil as it is about 70% linoleic, which is pro-inflammatory. Good luck.

9f52f85c3964445d7b16c94a890f6136

on August 10, 2013
at 12:23 AM

I was going to try just vlc, not paleo, but I would like to try a moderate carb paleo diet and see how it goes. Only thing I will be using that might not be considered paleo is grapeseed oil.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on August 10, 2013
at 12:04 AM

I would call that a healthy day's worth if you aren't very active. Why do you say not paleo, and then describe paleo foods? I mix up what I eat, but regularly eat close to a pound of ground beef cooked with a large sweet potato, some bacon and a couple eggs for dinner.

9f52f85c3964445d7b16c94a890f6136

on August 09, 2013
at 09:58 PM

Thanks for the help. So if I did low carb not paleo. How does this sound for a typical meal, one big pot of food cooked up to consume throughout the day. 20% Fat ground beef (400g), 2 onions, 24 garlic cloves, 300g sweet potato, 4 carrots, 5 large cooking tomatoes. + herbs and spices. Would that be siomething you view as a good daily food intake?

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on August 09, 2013
at 02:40 PM

Oh, and for vanity purposes, being VLC will make your muscles "look" smaller as they will be glycogen depleted and have less volume due to the fact that the water content will be lower.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on August 09, 2013
at 02:37 PM

And I recommend low/ moderate carb for metabolic flexibility. Ketosis does not lead to that, and many people do not function as well in ketosis. Besides explosive anaerobic actions will be limited in ketosis, due to constant glycogen depletion, unless those activities are limited to once or twice per week.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on August 09, 2013
at 02:35 PM

It is not true that fructose is needed to replenish the liver first. In reality, fructose can only be used for liver glycogen or else it is turned into triglycerides, so anything beyond about 75 g per day will become fat, and liver glycogen is released after muscle glycogen is depleted. As to protein gluconeogenesis, it depends on many factors so as not to be able to accurately predict within an individual.

9f52f85c3964445d7b16c94a890f6136

on August 09, 2013
at 01:49 PM

Also is it true fruitcose is needed first in the refeed to replenish liver glycogen to further absorb muscle glycogen? I was reading some lyle mcdonald or layne norton and one of them mentions this. Also how much protein can be sonsumed before your body converts it into glucose, is this dependent on each persons body or is it quite standard for a threshold for each person depending on their lbm?

9f52f85c3964445d7b16c94a890f6136

on August 09, 2013
at 01:46 PM

Out of interest why do you not recommend ketosis but rather low carb? I am talking strictly for vanity purposes not for performance. With this month off I am experimenting with low carb with cyclic re-feeds, mainly on Saturdays because I am forces out dancing and eating with the lady at the weekend and won't be able to get away with being a boring bastard at the weekend and refusing to eating sweet things. Cheers.

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1 Answers

2
C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on August 09, 2013
at 01:13 PM

That will depend on your activity level and what you mean by low carb. Some would consider under 200g per day LC while others might say under 100g. As to the "clean sources" comment, it would make sense that for optimum health make as much of your food as possible from clean sources which maximize nutrients and minimize anti-nutrients. Most fairly active people can keep their glycogen replenished at around 200g per day, and the body can only hold about 500g total, with most of that being muscle specific. If you are going VLC (under 50g for ketosis, which I don't recommend) then a refeed might need to be upwards of 300g carbs after very intense activity.

9f52f85c3964445d7b16c94a890f6136

on August 09, 2013
at 01:49 PM

Also is it true fruitcose is needed first in the refeed to replenish liver glycogen to further absorb muscle glycogen? I was reading some lyle mcdonald or layne norton and one of them mentions this. Also how much protein can be sonsumed before your body converts it into glucose, is this dependent on each persons body or is it quite standard for a threshold for each person depending on their lbm?

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on August 10, 2013
at 12:35 AM

I would avoid the grapeseed oil as it is about 70% linoleic, which is pro-inflammatory. Good luck.

9f52f85c3964445d7b16c94a890f6136

on August 09, 2013
at 01:46 PM

Out of interest why do you not recommend ketosis but rather low carb? I am talking strictly for vanity purposes not for performance. With this month off I am experimenting with low carb with cyclic re-feeds, mainly on Saturdays because I am forces out dancing and eating with the lady at the weekend and won't be able to get away with being a boring bastard at the weekend and refusing to eating sweet things. Cheers.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on August 10, 2013
at 12:04 AM

I would call that a healthy day's worth if you aren't very active. Why do you say not paleo, and then describe paleo foods? I mix up what I eat, but regularly eat close to a pound of ground beef cooked with a large sweet potato, some bacon and a couple eggs for dinner.

9f52f85c3964445d7b16c94a890f6136

on August 11, 2013
at 08:32 PM

It has only been a couple days but I have to say I am enjoying eating this way and not seeing any negative downsides at all to it.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on August 09, 2013
at 02:40 PM

Oh, and for vanity purposes, being VLC will make your muscles "look" smaller as they will be glycogen depleted and have less volume due to the fact that the water content will be lower.

9f52f85c3964445d7b16c94a890f6136

on August 09, 2013
at 09:58 PM

Thanks for the help. So if I did low carb not paleo. How does this sound for a typical meal, one big pot of food cooked up to consume throughout the day. 20% Fat ground beef (400g), 2 onions, 24 garlic cloves, 300g sweet potato, 4 carrots, 5 large cooking tomatoes. + herbs and spices. Would that be siomething you view as a good daily food intake?

9f52f85c3964445d7b16c94a890f6136

on August 10, 2013
at 12:23 AM

I was going to try just vlc, not paleo, but I would like to try a moderate carb paleo diet and see how it goes. Only thing I will be using that might not be considered paleo is grapeseed oil.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on August 09, 2013
at 02:37 PM

And I recommend low/ moderate carb for metabolic flexibility. Ketosis does not lead to that, and many people do not function as well in ketosis. Besides explosive anaerobic actions will be limited in ketosis, due to constant glycogen depletion, unless those activities are limited to once or twice per week.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on August 09, 2013
at 02:35 PM

It is not true that fructose is needed to replenish the liver first. In reality, fructose can only be used for liver glycogen or else it is turned into triglycerides, so anything beyond about 75 g per day will become fat, and liver glycogen is released after muscle glycogen is depleted. As to protein gluconeogenesis, it depends on many factors so as not to be able to accurately predict within an individual.

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