1

votes

Similar Ray Peat digestive experiences?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 27, 2012 at 9:57 PM

Apologise that this isn't strictly a paleo question, though paleo is such an umbrella term these days that I challenge anyone to clearly define it...

The question is has anyone else got anything to add or support my observations here? because I'm shocked if I'm the only one suffering the following. And if I am the only one suffering, what could be the cause:

Here it is, all related to digestion, I make no apologies for details since I keeping health problems to yourself has got many people ill, but I wouldn't recommend reading if you are easily upset by poop talk:

Orange juice - I'm drinking squeezed, not from concentrate super market juice, but it is pasteurised. It rips thought my system and makes me go to the toilet fairly quickly. I can also suffer from "splatter poop" due to the fairly explosive gas that accompanies the stools.

Now that's orange juice on its own - not too bad, however add something else into the mix and we have a god damn disaster in my gut.

Orange juice + potato (and I'm talking about drinking OJ within 2 hours of eating potato) causes me the absolute most killer noxious, open the window at night, frightened to be around my girlfriend gas I've every had. It was like something had diet and was rotting inside me.

Orange juice + milk, or milk following orange juice by less than half an hour (basically milk and OJ mixing in my stomach: this causes extremely painful gas high up in my intestine causing belching before inevitably being expelled through the rear end.

Orange juice + water - I tried watering down the orange juice, same thing... Only I have to go to the toilet all the time and I get cold, even if I heat it. I tried salting the orange juice but I'm barely able to stomach the taste of it. (salted and sugared milk on the other hand is delicious)

So basically OJ is tolerable on its own (though I wouldn't drink it at a festival) but with other things it is a disaster.

I'm not sure how well it goes with meat yet as I'm avoiding this combination due to the increased iron absorption.

So questions-

  1. Am I the only one or is OJ far from being something that you can drink other than on it's own (even then with problems.

  2. If I'm not on my own how are you supposed to combine meat with sugar to reduce the reduction in blood sugar that the meat gives.

Food leaves the stomach at different rates, so I'm not sure Ray Peats idea of "Eating protein with sugar/carbs" is even valid - you eat meat and sugar and the sugar will pass through a long time before the protein. You'd have to continually sip something sugary for 2-3 hours after your meat.

Also, take starches - I can handle a small amount of meat and a small amount of starch together but add body-building quantities and it's a whole different story of bloating and gas and indigestion.

Ironically I have no problems with milk (teaspoon of salt and 3 teaspoons of sugar per pint), in fact the other day after I'd had my OJ and been to the toilet (like clockwork) I waited an hour, drank milk - 1 litre, waited an hour, ate 400Cal of white rice, waited a couple hours, ate a lb of fatty lamb chops, waited a few hours drank another litre (or maybe 2 of milk) and experienced absolutely zero bloating and zero gas (not a burp or fart) for the rest of the day. On the other hand half a cup of OJ with that milk and I'd be floating, feet off the ground crying whist holding my stomach.

Thanks for reading.

5daf265b82d5a5bbb48ef3ae0d9117ae

(23)

on December 03, 2012
at 09:01 PM

Thanks for everyone who answered. I Limited myself to one glass or sugared orange juice at a time on an empty stomach and I'm doing well.

Fdea1e5da59a4b49ce5b2fb96926410f

(10)

on November 30, 2012
at 02:01 AM

The reason is that if your gut is troubled, the fiber could be a problem. Also, you could try squeezing it at home.

5daf265b82d5a5bbb48ef3ae0d9117ae

(23)

on November 29, 2012
at 08:31 PM

Yes I'll have to try that. I buy "smooth" but maybe it is still an issue.

5daf265b82d5a5bbb48ef3ae0d9117ae

(23)

on November 28, 2012
at 03:40 PM

sound advice- I add salt to the milk already as it certainly helps with stools, heat and urination however Salted OJ is unpalatable.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on November 28, 2012
at 09:01 AM

Hmm well might be a Fodmaps sensitivity too.

2fd566cefde2de38e75e1bc13a966e16

(662)

on November 28, 2012
at 02:14 AM

Oh okay--I misunderstood. Peatarians do mention glucose/fructose balance and attest that helps absorption (I'm not sure how): http://peatarian.com/?qa=3710/does-fructose-malabsorption-exist Have you tried digestive enzymes/betaine HCl?

5daf265b82d5a5bbb48ef3ae0d9117ae

(23)

on November 28, 2012
at 12:45 AM

Thanks for the links - First link I was a little dubious about because of the assertion that hydrogen in his breath was causing it to smell really bad - hydrogen is completely odourless. Hydrogen sulphide stinks but that is made by bacteria and should be independent. Anyway.... Second link, I found this very useful. Interesting how she says glucose can somehow help though she is unclear on the mechanism. I may try sugaring the orange juice with some glucose syrup. Thank you!

5daf265b82d5a5bbb48ef3ae0d9117ae

(23)

on November 28, 2012
at 12:27 AM

Thanks for your experience. I recently learned about a brand of orange juice sold in UK tesco stores which is unpasteurised, I'll give it ago and see what happens. (buying oranges separate and juicing them is a step I'll try and avoid if possible)

5daf265b82d5a5bbb48ef3ae0d9117ae

(23)

on November 28, 2012
at 12:25 AM

Some clarifications: Potato or meat are fine on their own ( I used to be all meat for a long time with no gas) It is only combining OJ with anything that is the problem. Now I've read about food combining, and I've read scientists dispute it, but I promise I've repeated these experiments again and again with the same results.

2fd566cefde2de38e75e1bc13a966e16

(662)

on November 28, 2012
at 12:01 AM

Possibly, but why do white potatoes give him problems? And large quantities of meat and (presumably low-fructose) starches? AFAIK, it Peat's view fructose malabsorption is actually not due to the fructose, but fiber/cellulose in insufficiently ripe (or chemically ripened) fruit.

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5 Answers

3
8960effe0a2d790a15f343be0ca8d52e

(50)

on November 27, 2012
at 11:12 PM

Any and all store bought pastuerized OJ I have had rips my stomach up too. Then I tried buying oranges and juicing them at home......no problems, and it tastes SOOOO much better.

5daf265b82d5a5bbb48ef3ae0d9117ae

(23)

on November 28, 2012
at 12:27 AM

Thanks for your experience. I recently learned about a brand of orange juice sold in UK tesco stores which is unpasteurised, I'll give it ago and see what happens. (buying oranges separate and juicing them is a step I'll try and avoid if possible)

1
153c4e4a22734ded15bf4eb35b448e85

(762)

on November 28, 2012
at 03:05 PM

Maybe you have too much potassium in relation to sodium, Peat foods are very high in potassium, and low in sodium. Also, his diet is very, very high in liquids, and too much liquids + too little sodium = stomach trouble.

Potassium will make your food go through you faster, and give lots of digestive trouble, loose stools etc. when it's in excess in relation to sodium.

Too much sodium in relation to potassium will make the opposite happen, you'll get constipated etc.

When you are on a diet, your diet might make you ignore your the signals your body is giving you, like eat more salt, cravings for salty stuff, feeling like potassium foods are nasty etc.

You might ignore these cues because you "want" the diet to be right 100%. It's a dangerous path when you are playing with the potassium/sodium/water balance in the body, ask some of the fruitarians, or the irish guy who died from too much potassium and water recently.

5daf265b82d5a5bbb48ef3ae0d9117ae

(23)

on November 28, 2012
at 03:40 PM

sound advice- I add salt to the milk already as it certainly helps with stools, heat and urination however Salted OJ is unpalatable.

2fd566cefde2de38e75e1bc13a966e16

(662)

on November 28, 2012
at 12:01 AM

Possibly, but why do white potatoes give him problems? And large quantities of meat and (presumably low-fructose) starches? AFAIK, it Peat's view fructose malabsorption is actually not due to the fructose, but fiber/cellulose in insufficiently ripe (or chemically ripened) fruit.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on November 28, 2012
at 09:01 AM

Hmm well might be a Fodmaps sensitivity too.

2fd566cefde2de38e75e1bc13a966e16

(662)

on November 28, 2012
at 02:14 AM

Oh okay--I misunderstood. Peatarians do mention glucose/fructose balance and attest that helps absorption (I'm not sure how): http://peatarian.com/?qa=3710/does-fructose-malabsorption-exist Have you tried digestive enzymes/betaine HCl?

5daf265b82d5a5bbb48ef3ae0d9117ae

(23)

on November 28, 2012
at 12:45 AM

Thanks for the links - First link I was a little dubious about because of the assertion that hydrogen in his breath was causing it to smell really bad - hydrogen is completely odourless. Hydrogen sulphide stinks but that is made by bacteria and should be independent. Anyway.... Second link, I found this very useful. Interesting how she says glucose can somehow help though she is unclear on the mechanism. I may try sugaring the orange juice with some glucose syrup. Thank you!

0
Fdea1e5da59a4b49ce5b2fb96926410f

on November 28, 2012
at 05:07 PM

Have you tried straining the OJ with a cheesecloth?

5daf265b82d5a5bbb48ef3ae0d9117ae

(23)

on November 29, 2012
at 08:31 PM

Yes I'll have to try that. I buy "smooth" but maybe it is still an issue.

Fdea1e5da59a4b49ce5b2fb96926410f

(10)

on November 30, 2012
at 02:01 AM

The reason is that if your gut is troubled, the fiber could be a problem. Also, you could try squeezing it at home.

-1
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on November 28, 2012
at 03:46 PM

I think orange juice lies outside the bounds of paleo, largely because there weren't any juicers back in the paleolithic. Here is the link to the peatarian question and answer site. You will probably get better answers there, though some of them are known to hang out here too.

I found, every time I tried to implement Peat's diet advice, I would suffer. Obviously, his disciples will just say I did it wrong, but since I don't like feeling depressed all the time, I won't be making orange juice (or other sugary things) a large part of my diet.

From my experience though, if you want to avoid the problems you are having, eat primarily animal products and lighten up considerably on the plants.

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