1

votes

Raw milk......and dairy

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 26, 2011 at 2:41 PM

I'm headed to meet a WAPF farmer now for cow sharing for my patients. What does paleohacks think about raw milk cream and butter?

499f188c87c6980742b9ba98caa6f563

(683)

on December 11, 2011
at 02:07 AM

hermanvt, how are they "as sick as before"? Are you saying they get sick just as often as before?

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on December 10, 2011
at 02:47 PM

Pretty interesting experiment for sure. I've personally had the opposite reaction, raw milk gave me horrible acne but not pastuerized. Granted I wasn't supplementing vit A when I was drinking raw milk which is a big factor imo.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 02, 2011
at 04:35 PM

We all need vitamin k2 and raw milk gets it. The m-4 subunit is huge for bone and cardiac health. In Japan k2 is used to directly treat osteoporosis

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 02, 2011
at 04:33 PM

Actually raw milk is a dairy product I can understand. But dairy is insulinogenic and needs to be curbed

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on May 02, 2011
at 05:42 AM

Doc, You seem to be anti dairy, so Im wondering where you're heads at with this question

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on March 28, 2011
at 05:19 AM

i only use my raw butter for smoothies and papaya custard, or sometimes on mashed sweet potatoes after they've cooled and then I dont re-heat them. Definitely aware of the enzymes, etc. I actually get raw grass fed cultured butter ;) here are the two recipes for the smoothie and custard (on the left) http://hungryforreal.net/Recipes.php

9cfa1ab909f6f89544be665d4ef6e3ea

on March 27, 2011
at 10:10 PM

Okay, but that makes me more curious what you've personally seen that made you decide unpasteurized milk wasn't for you regardless of source. I can't imagine the hand-milked goats less than 20 minutes away that I drink from are the same kind of "roulette roll" (as FDA guy John Sheehan would put it) as even, say, Marc McAfee's Organic Pastures Dairy, whose reputation is by no means perfect: http://www.cheeseslave.com/2011/03/24/will-the-real-california-happy-cows-please-stand-up/ And both are light-years away from the swill put out by any conventional CAFO operation. Vive la difference.

2cdd1c775683f760390d80cdb984fc13

on March 27, 2011
at 05:16 PM

Ok, I think people are misunderstanding me here. I am saying that I, personally, would never use raw milk because of what I have seen. This is similar to other professions, where if you see what really goes on in your industry, it really opens your eyes. Anyone who wants to drink raw milk should be free to do so, in fact, I feel like raw milk should be available in all states, since some states prohibit it by law and in my opinion that restricts consumer choice for what we put in our own bodies. I actually love unpasteurized cheese, just not a fan of raw milk.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on March 27, 2011
at 05:09 PM

I'm concerned about it but not when I get to see how the business runs. I'm open minded about it

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on March 27, 2011
at 05:07 PM

Stimulating IGF1 for most women over 35and men over 50 is big.....but eating paleo and simultaneously being leptin sensitive successfully navigates both goals

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 27, 2011
at 12:53 AM

good point mari. yah you don't want to waste raw butter on cooking with it. also, surely don't make ghee with it. lol. but if you melt raw butter by smearing it on cooked veggies or a steak or whatever, i'd still consider that to be raw butter.

0c0c5c65612425e497b7231c21516943

(1354)

on March 27, 2011
at 12:44 AM

I have listened to Robb saying on more than one occasion and podcast that dairy can promote cancer.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on March 26, 2011
at 11:44 PM

Dairy can definitely stimulate IGF-1 (what I believe Robb is talking about). But, if you get grassfed and full fat, the CLA inhibits IGF-1, promotes weight loss and the gain of lean tissue. It's also antiinflammatory and thought to be chemoprotective. Lactoferrin is also an antiinflammatory protein in milk.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on March 26, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Do you heat your butter? because if you do that's basically pasteurizing it...

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 26, 2011
at 10:26 PM

human error. human oversight.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 26, 2011
at 10:04 PM

Pre 1900, before Louis Pasteur, people died generation after generation from milk borne disease, particularly children.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on March 26, 2011
at 08:41 PM

Goin strong! I took a picture of the famous dessert. I gotta learn how to put a picture up on here.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 26, 2011
at 07:53 PM

malarky. what about pre 1900. what about before Louis Pasteur was born. people thrived generation after generation. it's not the raw milk that's a problem. it's human's care of it.

9cfa1ab909f6f89544be665d4ef6e3ea

on March 26, 2011
at 07:50 PM

I did say 'sounds like', to indicate my perception of your specific choice of words. It would be more productive for you to provide more solid data, reasoning and experience you relied on to make your decision, as well as specific disagreements I imagine you must have with proponents of unpasteurized dairy regarding the research many of them rely on to back up their personal experience.

2cdd1c775683f760390d80cdb984fc13

on March 26, 2011
at 04:39 PM

Actually, it's my own personal opinion based on my time spent on the farm, in the lab and in the plant. I personally would never do it, but anyone is open to and should definitely try it at least once. I am not "regurgitating" anything.

9cfa1ab909f6f89544be665d4ef6e3ea

on March 26, 2011
at 04:01 PM

Flavor is subjective (see all the people who think grass-fed meat "tastes wrong/bad"). As for the health concerns, your statements do not jibe with either my personal experience or the best available research I have found, and just sounds like a regurgitation of "what everyone knows" which is uncritically repeated by lawyers, FDA officials and the like.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on March 26, 2011
at 03:30 PM

I drink raw milk occasionally. I think it depends on your goals and how sensitive you are to the casein and lactose.

  • Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

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10 Answers

3
22212e9ba2a041e6da6c963d4d41615a

(5773)

on September 07, 2013
at 12:44 AM

My sons go through 2+ gallons of raw milk a week and they love it. It has also helped them with digestion (they have healthy consistent movements 1-2 times a day) and they are as sick as before. Another huge benefit is dental.... We have noticed s huge different and so has our dentist!

They have been drinking it for 2 years.

499f188c87c6980742b9ba98caa6f563

(683)

on December 11, 2011
at 02:07 AM

hermanvt, how are they "as sick as before"? Are you saying they get sick just as often as before?

3
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 26, 2011
at 08:16 PM

Some people, even on their own family farms, used to heat up the milk themselves in a big pot over fire, especially based on certain conditions since each person knew the life of the milk and their own handling of it. This is fine, and maybe would be similar to VAT pasteurization, but definitely not Ultra Pasteurization.

Personally, I drink the raw organic grass fed whole milk from Organic Pastures farm in SoCal. It's great. You just gotta drink it within 5 days of opening before it begins to go naturally sour (not spoiled, just sour). In clean conditions, the bacteria in raw, healthy milk will protect it from contamination, FOREVER. This has been proven over and over again for centuries. I don't give a flyin leap what 'study' or report comes out in 2011 or thereafter that 'proves' otherwise. There's one thing that a study can never take away from reality. A healthy cow raised well in the right environment combined with the competent handling of caring people produces nutritious milk in its raw state.

For those that cannot access raw milk, the next best thing is exactly what I advised my brother to do (Seattle). He got organic whole milk that is not homogenized and is VAT pasteurized. The WORST milk you can drink is 2% or even whole milk from a major national brand that has been both homogenized and ultra pasteurized. Homogenization destroys the natural structure of the milkfat globules. Your body does NOT appreciate this. U/P all but annihilates the milk nutrients. Double Brilliance.

As far as Doc's exact question, raw cream and butter is DAIRY GOLD! Organic Pastures makes it and they sell it at some of my local Farmer's markets out here. This is the good stuff that Todd says he makes his desserts out of. Todd, you still around? You alive and well? Feeling pretty good?

Go for it Doc.

Raw Milk vs Pasteurized Milk - The Fiery Debate!

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on March 26, 2011
at 08:41 PM

Goin strong! I took a picture of the famous dessert. I gotta learn how to put a picture up on here.

3
2cdd1c775683f760390d80cdb984fc13

on March 26, 2011
at 03:46 PM

I'm a Dairy Scientist, and I would never do it. The reason why is because of the flavor (very different from pasteurized) and also the risk of contamination. My company produces Organic milk and I have seen how the cows are treated extremely well, but with ANY dairy farm you run that risk of E. Coli O157:H7 contamination. Farms are just dirty places by nature. In my opinion, it's like taking a whole load of Organic produce home, not washing it at all, and eating it straight from the basket. Doing it a few times may not hurt you, and if you're lucky your gut bacteria will adapt over time, but I can guarantee you that if you get Colitis once, you will never, ever want to risk it again. I personally buy Pasteurized, Full Fat, Organic milk that is from grass-fed cows not treated with rBST or rBGH. For me, the benefits of the enzymes (which current research shows as "questionable") do not outweigh the risks of contamination.

9cfa1ab909f6f89544be665d4ef6e3ea

on March 26, 2011
at 07:50 PM

I did say 'sounds like', to indicate my perception of your specific choice of words. It would be more productive for you to provide more solid data, reasoning and experience you relied on to make your decision, as well as specific disagreements I imagine you must have with proponents of unpasteurized dairy regarding the research many of them rely on to back up their personal experience.

2cdd1c775683f760390d80cdb984fc13

on March 27, 2011
at 05:16 PM

Ok, I think people are misunderstanding me here. I am saying that I, personally, would never use raw milk because of what I have seen. This is similar to other professions, where if you see what really goes on in your industry, it really opens your eyes. Anyone who wants to drink raw milk should be free to do so, in fact, I feel like raw milk should be available in all states, since some states prohibit it by law and in my opinion that restricts consumer choice for what we put in our own bodies. I actually love unpasteurized cheese, just not a fan of raw milk.

2cdd1c775683f760390d80cdb984fc13

on March 26, 2011
at 04:39 PM

Actually, it's my own personal opinion based on my time spent on the farm, in the lab and in the plant. I personally would never do it, but anyone is open to and should definitely try it at least once. I am not "regurgitating" anything.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 26, 2011
at 07:53 PM

malarky. what about pre 1900. what about before Louis Pasteur was born. people thrived generation after generation. it's not the raw milk that's a problem. it's human's care of it.

9cfa1ab909f6f89544be665d4ef6e3ea

on March 26, 2011
at 04:01 PM

Flavor is subjective (see all the people who think grass-fed meat "tastes wrong/bad"). As for the health concerns, your statements do not jibe with either my personal experience or the best available research I have found, and just sounds like a regurgitation of "what everyone knows" which is uncritically repeated by lawyers, FDA officials and the like.

9cfa1ab909f6f89544be665d4ef6e3ea

on March 27, 2011
at 10:10 PM

Okay, but that makes me more curious what you've personally seen that made you decide unpasteurized milk wasn't for you regardless of source. I can't imagine the hand-milked goats less than 20 minutes away that I drink from are the same kind of "roulette roll" (as FDA guy John Sheehan would put it) as even, say, Marc McAfee's Organic Pastures Dairy, whose reputation is by no means perfect: http://www.cheeseslave.com/2011/03/24/will-the-real-california-happy-cows-please-stand-up/ And both are light-years away from the swill put out by any conventional CAFO operation. Vive la difference.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 26, 2011
at 10:26 PM

human error. human oversight.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 26, 2011
at 10:04 PM

Pre 1900, before Louis Pasteur, people died generation after generation from milk borne disease, particularly children.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on March 27, 2011
at 05:09 PM

I'm concerned about it but not when I get to see how the business runs. I'm open minded about it

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 02, 2011
at 04:35 PM

We all need vitamin k2 and raw milk gets it. The m-4 subunit is huge for bone and cardiac health. In Japan k2 is used to directly treat osteoporosis

2
C8521a858edd480815a55f683afff86a

(2065)

on March 26, 2011
at 10:14 PM

I drink raw milk and use raw butter- great sources of K2. Drinking raw grass fed milk carries less of a risk of illness then eating raw vegetables. Raw dairy is awesome if you have no problems with casein intolerance. Milk is a very individual thing-some do well with it and some do not.

1
7792d8e2ada34662a3226a7d1952940a

on March 26, 2011
at 06:24 PM

If you do it, do it gradually. I asked my Dad about this (grew up on an "organic" milk farm before the organic part was trendy) and he said it would eventually turn your stomach over if you went all in at once. Your body has to get used to the bacteria and learn how to cope with it. You could drink the water in Mexico, as long as you adapt to it gradually, LOL.

0
F12f26f2bb71a5d347755ccfda31c4e3

on December 10, 2011
at 02:42 PM

I tried ton of milk products and i am to all of them allergic except raw milk, raw sour milk and its products. Then I tried experiment. My wife's family have their own cows so I took the raw milk and raw sour products and heated them up. and when I drink them or ate them i got a huge eczema outbreak on hands and neck and face. Drinking raw milk even in quantities of 2-4l a day, helps my eczema and acne. So to conclude the quality of milk doesn't have such effect than raw vs pasteurised. Always choose raw.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on December 10, 2011
at 02:47 PM

Pretty interesting experiment for sure. I've personally had the opposite reaction, raw milk gave me horrible acne but not pastuerized. Granted I wasn't supplementing vit A when I was drinking raw milk which is a big factor imo.

0
64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on March 26, 2011
at 09:24 PM

I eat a ton of raw butter. I notice if I have to use pasturized (grass-fed) butter I get mucous build up that I dont get from the raw stuff

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on March 26, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Do you heat your butter? because if you do that's basically pasteurizing it...

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 27, 2011
at 12:53 AM

good point mari. yah you don't want to waste raw butter on cooking with it. also, surely don't make ghee with it. lol. but if you melt raw butter by smearing it on cooked veggies or a steak or whatever, i'd still consider that to be raw butter.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on March 28, 2011
at 05:19 AM

i only use my raw butter for smoothies and papaya custard, or sometimes on mashed sweet potatoes after they've cooled and then I dont re-heat them. Definitely aware of the enzymes, etc. I actually get raw grass fed cultured butter ;) here are the two recipes for the smoothie and custard (on the left) http://hungryforreal.net/Recipes.php

0
0c0c5c65612425e497b7231c21516943

(1354)

on March 26, 2011
at 06:59 PM

I personally don't do dairy, but not because of it being raw. Robb Wolf says that it is very growth promoting, including it could cause cancer cells to proliferate. That being said, if I were going to drink any milk, it would be raw. I just picked up some today for the family and for cooking. Perhaps this would be helpful:

http://www.realmilk.com/

IMHO, pasteurized milk is a waste of calories and sugar in the body. It has no benefit to the body, and in fact is harmful.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on March 27, 2011
at 05:07 PM

Stimulating IGF1 for most women over 35and men over 50 is big.....but eating paleo and simultaneously being leptin sensitive successfully navigates both goals

0c0c5c65612425e497b7231c21516943

(1354)

on March 27, 2011
at 12:44 AM

I have listened to Robb saying on more than one occasion and podcast that dairy can promote cancer.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on March 26, 2011
at 11:44 PM

Dairy can definitely stimulate IGF-1 (what I believe Robb is talking about). But, if you get grassfed and full fat, the CLA inhibits IGF-1, promotes weight loss and the gain of lean tissue. It's also antiinflammatory and thought to be chemoprotective. Lactoferrin is also an antiinflammatory protein in milk.

0
89e6ee4796cc4b4fba5dc573618aa6f5

on March 26, 2011
at 03:20 PM

Just looking in to this myself. Most of the inflammatory issues in milk are from the sugars and proteins. I use organic grass fed dairy, mainly cream and butter (50% fat) with no recurrence of my IBS type symptoms which I was plagued with pre-Paleo. I've read theory that the enzymes in raw milk which are destroyed during pasteurisation enable the gut to break down the offending proteins and sugars, enabling the gut to adsorb the unbounded amino acids/galactose. I have yet to read any reports/studies with corroborated results to back this up so if anyone can shed light on links to such data I would be very grateful. I miss milk and if raw milk can be drank on Paleo then my local dairy and I will be getting very well acquainted.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on March 26, 2011
at 03:30 PM

I drink raw milk occasionally. I think it depends on your goals and how sensitive you are to the casein and lactose.

0
46a50abafc820cfab9e91ada8b26148a

(152)

on March 26, 2011
at 03:17 PM

gold! trying to find it in the Czech Republic.

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