1

votes

kefir drinkers, is raw milk safe?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 25, 2012 at 7:11 PM

is raw goats milk safe for kefir? i recently found out that the farm where i get my raw goats milk had a recall due to "Campylobacter bacteria" in its raw cream. (they sell raw cows and goats milk)

by the way i dont get it directly from the farm, i get it from a health food store.

this recall happened earlier this year and now they are back up and running. i even bought raw goats milk from this farm this morning and now im paranoid that it will be dangerous to drink(remember i ferment it to drink my kefir)

i have seen other goats milk brands from other companies but they are either ultra pastuerized or pastuerized. i heard this is not good for kefir?

what should i do, not worry? or start drinking the pastuerized goats milk.

ive just heard so many good things about raw milk, especially raw goats milk.

3491e51730101b18724dc57c86601173

(8395)

on March 11, 2013
at 02:08 AM

The industry does some form of "ultra pasturization" which I believe is hotter and quicker. Milk which has been "ultra pasturized" generally doesn't work well for kefir or other culturing. It doesn't work for butter, either.

07243c7700483a67386049f7b67d90a4

on August 26, 2012
at 08:12 AM

A fairly large proportion of my diet is based on raw organic milk kefir. I have done all sorts to the grains; left out,fridged, dropped, used on sour milk etc. Even with mistreatment my kefir has always been great on my pernickety stomach

43e9d0f324c2fc8b5f283786a1e3bf4f

(419)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:51 AM

Consider the sources. Peer-reviewed medical literature versus naturalnews.com. I eat paleo because it checks out in the former literature on PubMed.com. Raw milk does not. The peer-reviewed research and CDC links I cited have nothing to do with the FDA.

62fafa8cb15af7c562fa8c270f7b6174

(619)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:26 AM

Small farms obtain milk much more safely than large commercial dairies, which are allowed certain amounts of feces, blood, and pus which their production methods cannot eliminate. The FDA does not solely protect compromised immune systems, they also protect compromised corporate interests. A simple comparison of pasteurized vs raw milk: http://www.naturalnews.com/027111_milk_raw_pasteurized.html A detailed presentation by the Weston A. Price foundation refuting attacks by the FDA on raw milk safety: http://www.realmilk.com/documents/SheehanPowerPointResponse2009Oct.pdf

43e9d0f324c2fc8b5f283786a1e3bf4f

(419)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:05 AM

LOL, I never knew men could produce cow's milk.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:43 AM

Which is why nearly all of us stress: know and trust your source if you're going to do raw. I certainly don't touch any raw product that I myself haven't produced.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:08 AM

Agreed. Also, if they are back on the shelf, then they are going to be paying extra special attention. I make raw goats kefir all the time & never worry.

43e9d0f324c2fc8b5f283786a1e3bf4f

(419)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:50 AM

Citations re. health risks of raw milk: http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html#risks, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21819653, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22856561, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22769601. I cordially invite you to consider fighting the power over something less likely to get people with compromised immune systems killed.

2336245491a87ee15d4fb8f8f8283909

(1173)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:27 AM

Organic acids show the strongest bactericidal effect on Campylobacter at or below pH 4.0.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:13 AM

No. It's not illegal due to health risks. It's illegal because of food industry standards and control of your mouth.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:11 AM

Main reason, but not the only reason. It's also less allergenic.

62fafa8cb15af7c562fa8c270f7b6174

(619)

on August 25, 2012
at 08:43 PM

I drink a lot of raw cow kefir and feel safer drinking kefir than the milk.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on August 25, 2012
at 07:37 PM

I don't understand what do you mean by "ultra". It's just pasteurized. The main reason to drink raw milk is because of the digestive enzymes they have. Kefir in particular creates digestive enzymes when fermenting in the pasteurized milk. So I don't see why I should push my luck by going raw.

5f6d15c9dd935b6fed3623caf984c14e

(439)

on August 25, 2012
at 07:29 PM

so you drink ultra pasteruized than?

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11 Answers

2
E2db1519690001648433e8109eb2c013

on August 26, 2012
at 09:11 PM

Raw milk is either safe or not. There is no categorical claim to be made on the basis of whether milk is raw or pasteurized.

Raw milk USED to be a common carrier of TB, Typhoid, 'Q-fever' and who knows what else. Therefore, legal requirements for pasteurization.

Nowadays 'raw' milk is usually from small dairies, which sort of implies that your getting more local, less factory produced product. The milk may be much better whether it is raw or not.

There have been disease outbreaks traceable to raw milk dairies, at least in California.

Traditionally, anti-pastuerization fans were crackpots who insisted that disease was god's will and prevention a form of blasphemy. Or general woo-woos.

Local milk from grass fed cows is to be preferred. If the farm conditions are right, have it raw. If there is any doubt, pasteruized.

2
20bff9cbbddf521bac87b434981502c3

on August 25, 2012
at 08:35 PM

I'm not qualified to answer whether or not it's safe, but for what it's worth I make kefir at home with raw cow's milk.

I've heard conflicting stories. I've heard that scientists tested injecting E.coli into a kefir mixture, and 24h later the E.coli had been destroyed. I've also read the opposite -- that E.coli and Listeria have been found to have survived the fermentation process.

As the end of the day I guess it boils (love the unintended pun) down to a few things:

  • Trust
  • Handling process, food-safety best practices, sanitizing the fermentation vessel and storage vessel
  • How the dairy obtains, processes, and packages the milk

This study says that "According to the findings, E. coli O157:H7, S. typhimurium, and S. aureus can survive in kefir during fermentation."

62fafa8cb15af7c562fa8c270f7b6174

(619)

on August 25, 2012
at 08:43 PM

I drink a lot of raw cow kefir and feel safer drinking kefir than the milk.

1
A87123772dfaec07079b8fac17b20372

on August 27, 2012
at 12:30 PM

I'm using pasteurized goat milk to make kefir and it works great.

Good fermentation, nice taste, amazing stuff for my gut so far.

I cannot say anything about raw milk since I've never tried to make kefir with it.

Michael.

1
2336245491a87ee15d4fb8f8f8283909

(1173)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:13 AM

I wouldn't worry about it personally. Lactobacteria produce their own form of antibiotics, plus not many pathogens do well in an acid environment.

I would probably ferment it for 24-36 hours and then put it under an airlock for another 24-48 hours for a secondary fermentation.

2336245491a87ee15d4fb8f8f8283909

(1173)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:27 AM

Organic acids show the strongest bactericidal effect on Campylobacter at or below pH 4.0.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:08 AM

Agreed. Also, if they are back on the shelf, then they are going to be paying extra special attention. I make raw goats kefir all the time & never worry.

0
3491e51730101b18724dc57c86601173

(8395)

on March 11, 2013
at 02:10 AM

I would think you'd be even more confident in buying it now, because this dairy is on notice that it had a problem and probably took extraordinary steps to clean up to prevent any further infection of its milk. In addition, because you are buying it from the health food store, there are additional people making sure the milk is OK--the health food store would not want to risk it's own reputation on this dairy without being convinced that there will be no further problems.

0
899a6e214d55ee63e6f5f3d9fd12eac8

on March 10, 2013
at 11:19 PM

I am a huge fan of Raw milk Kefir. As of right now, I can not handle Raw milk, however kefir I feel amazing on. Wish I didn't run out so fast all the time!!!

0
973c21f7bc31c09d12675c1ba45df153

(145)

on August 27, 2012
at 04:48 AM

I personally stopped making Kefir at home due to the amount of times it came out bad. I used raw goats or cows milk and fermented for 24 hours (I've tried grains from various suppliers too), about 30% of the time it would give me incredible stomach pains and diarrhea.

I used to drink several liters of raw milk each week for months and I never had any problems, I even drank it when it was sour at lot of the time.

0
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:27 AM

It all depends on your source of milk and whether you trust it or not. My family does raw goat kefir, but only because we're the folks doing the teat-squeezin'.

0
68294383ced9a0eafc16133aa80d1905

(5795)

on August 25, 2012
at 08:40 PM

How to we gauge "safe?" Is it by comparing it to other things used on a regular basis? There are many "safe" things that wreak havoc with and even end lives with a far more frequent basis than raw milk. That doesn't mean you want to knowingly consume something you know might be poorly-sourced, but it's impossible to just say "raw milk" and get a definitive answer.

0
3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on August 25, 2012
at 07:20 PM

I do goat kefir at home, but I have trust issues, so I prefer to not go raw.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on August 25, 2012
at 07:37 PM

I don't understand what do you mean by "ultra". It's just pasteurized. The main reason to drink raw milk is because of the digestive enzymes they have. Kefir in particular creates digestive enzymes when fermenting in the pasteurized milk. So I don't see why I should push my luck by going raw.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:11 AM

Main reason, but not the only reason. It's also less allergenic.

5f6d15c9dd935b6fed3623caf984c14e

(439)

on August 25, 2012
at 07:29 PM

so you drink ultra pasteruized than?

3491e51730101b18724dc57c86601173

(8395)

on March 11, 2013
at 02:08 AM

The industry does some form of "ultra pasturization" which I believe is hotter and quicker. Milk which has been "ultra pasturized" generally doesn't work well for kefir or other culturing. It doesn't work for butter, either.

-3
43e9d0f324c2fc8b5f283786a1e3bf4f

(419)

on August 25, 2012
at 09:05 PM

Buying and selling raw milk is illegal in several states due to health risks. You can buy something close to it, grassfed but pasteurized (not homogenized or ultra-pasteurized), at many health food stores including Whole Foods.

If you like the taste of kefir but want to try something stricter paleo, you might like lime juice in coconut milk. You can make cheap(er) coconut milk by blending about 3 cups hot water and 1 cup unsweetened shredded coconut. It takes 2 minutes on low in a blender. Strain. The fat comes to the top overnight in the fridge, leaving you with (a) tasty coconut milk "cream" for eating/cooking and (b) tasty coconut milk. All hormone, mucus, casein, lactose, and deadly bacteria-free.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:13 AM

No. It's not illegal due to health risks. It's illegal because of food industry standards and control of your mouth.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:43 AM

Which is why nearly all of us stress: know and trust your source if you're going to do raw. I certainly don't touch any raw product that I myself haven't produced.

62fafa8cb15af7c562fa8c270f7b6174

(619)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:26 AM

Small farms obtain milk much more safely than large commercial dairies, which are allowed certain amounts of feces, blood, and pus which their production methods cannot eliminate. The FDA does not solely protect compromised immune systems, they also protect compromised corporate interests. A simple comparison of pasteurized vs raw milk: http://www.naturalnews.com/027111_milk_raw_pasteurized.html A detailed presentation by the Weston A. Price foundation refuting attacks by the FDA on raw milk safety: http://www.realmilk.com/documents/SheehanPowerPointResponse2009Oct.pdf

43e9d0f324c2fc8b5f283786a1e3bf4f

(419)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:05 AM

LOL, I never knew men could produce cow's milk.

43e9d0f324c2fc8b5f283786a1e3bf4f

(419)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:50 AM

Citations re. health risks of raw milk: http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html#risks, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21819653, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22856561, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22769601. I cordially invite you to consider fighting the power over something less likely to get people with compromised immune systems killed.

43e9d0f324c2fc8b5f283786a1e3bf4f

(419)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:51 AM

Consider the sources. Peer-reviewed medical literature versus naturalnews.com. I eat paleo because it checks out in the former literature on PubMed.com. Raw milk does not. The peer-reviewed research and CDC links I cited have nothing to do with the FDA.

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