1

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Explain the success of raw vegan

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created June 17, 2013 at 8:32 PM

Serious question: If meat is so "vital" please explain the success of raw vegans? In sport they do very well including the Williams sisters, The Diaz bros, etc.

In personal life I have seen many raw vegans looking absolutely glowing?

I am stuck losing 2-3 pounds a week on meat looking like shit and having to struggle to have a regular poop. SO explain the reality please?

And no this is not a troll or some advertisement. Just explain in common English why paleo is better than raw vegan or vice versa?

Is it all bullshit?

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on June 19, 2013
at 08:25 PM

Fish and eggs doesn't sound vegan to me...

9c4ba98a3b480408bcf207f558fe659b

(355)

on June 19, 2013
at 10:44 AM

What planet are you from where you think the Diaz brothers aren't successful fighters? Utter, utter insanity.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on June 18, 2013
at 08:52 PM

I don't know that I can say that is totally accurate. I think in this day and age, they can avoid vitamin deficiency problems. They just have to work a lot harder at it than the rest of us.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on June 18, 2013
at 08:51 PM

OMG, Venus William's is out due to injury! Must be the Raw Vegan diet right? Correllation = Causation? :)

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 18, 2013
at 01:51 PM

Of course a cat would be pro-carnivore ;)

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on June 18, 2013
at 01:50 PM

The only thing I'd add to this is that true vegans will eventually run into vitamin deficiency problems. B12 is the most obvious, but I am sure there are others. They feel better for a while because they stop eating crap, but eventually they run out of important stuff and can seriously damage themselves if they don't go off the diet.

7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on June 18, 2013
at 01:36 PM

Examples of successful vegan dieters really say nothing because it's tiny niche diet to begin with, and many if not most people who try it don't stick with it. The success are merely the tiny, self-selected minority of people who can do well on a vegan diet.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 18, 2013
at 12:57 PM

if your constipated eat some fiber like avocados, coconut, leafy greens, onions, cauliflowers, squash, broccoli, sweet potatoes, pears, apples, figs.... Need I go on?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 18, 2013
at 12:28 PM

BTW, if you used the search box you would have found these threads: http://paleohacks.com/questions/7747/ | http://paleohacks.com/questions/30065/ | http://paleohacks.com/questions/148205/ | but I can see how it was hard to find another thread using the search box

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 18, 2013
at 12:27 PM

BTW, if you used the search box you would have found these threads: paleohacks.com/questions/7747/ | paleohacks.com/questions/30065/ | paleohacks.com/questions/148205/ | but I can see how it was hard to find another thread using the search box.

C6648ab69e5a1560c7585fe3ba7108fb

(880)

on June 18, 2013
at 12:24 PM

^This. You cannot attempt to use professional athletes as guides for diets; they are some of the best performers among roughly 7 billion people and this is in large part due to their genetics (not trying to discount the hard work they put in, but you can't make it to the top w/out the genetics, frankly). They've got the genes that will allow them to be more athletic and better performers than all of us regardless of what they eat.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 18, 2013
at 12:16 PM

The Williams Sisters were doing pretty well on the fast food diet as well....

A08b210e4da7e69cd792bddc1f4aae4b

(1031)

on June 18, 2013
at 02:17 AM

Paleo can be raw vegan (just bloody hard to do) -- what's your point?

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on June 17, 2013
at 09:10 PM

Also, wait... you're upset about losing 2-3 pounds a week? That's fast compared to anything except for a destructive crash diet. Will you really be unhappy if you've lost 50 pounds by December?

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7 Answers

9
5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on June 18, 2013
at 08:53 AM

Yeah, and Michael Phelps won multiple gold medals on a diet that would put most of us under. Non Paleo and Non Raw Vegan. Usain Bolt eats plenty of meats and has the moniker of fastest man alive. The Williams sisters won before and after starting their vegan diets. You've got to remember these folks are genetically gifted along with putting in hours of hard work. You can't tell if they're winning because of the raw vegan diet or in spite of it.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on June 18, 2013
at 08:51 PM

OMG, Venus William's is out due to injury! Must be the Raw Vegan diet right? Correllation = Causation? :)

C6648ab69e5a1560c7585fe3ba7108fb

(880)

on June 18, 2013
at 12:24 PM

^This. You cannot attempt to use professional athletes as guides for diets; they are some of the best performers among roughly 7 billion people and this is in large part due to their genetics (not trying to discount the hard work they put in, but you can't make it to the top w/out the genetics, frankly). They've got the genes that will allow them to be more athletic and better performers than all of us regardless of what they eat.

7
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 18, 2013
at 12:26 PM

Explain the success of Atkins, the zone diet, the beer and ice cream diet, the twinkie diet, etc. diets work. calorie restriction works. crash diets work.

Does that make them healthy or optimal? No.

A paleo diet and a vegan diet look similar on 80% of consumption (by volume, for me). Zero processed crap, lots of high quality vegetables, and some fruit and nuts. The differ at the protein level. Animal muscle is a very convenient source of essential nutrients.

An optimal vegan diet is a lot more work, you'd be forced to go to sub-optimal forms of protein (or supplement). But if you focused on properly prepared legumes and seeds you could certainly maintain your health without meat or dairy. If you'd rather do it that way, go for it. You can certainly be a vegetarian paleo (this would work nicely: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/recipe/1532380/2)


BTW, Djokovic's diet, "However if people stick to a wholefoods diet -- i.e. fresh fish, meats, vegetables, fruit, nuts and seeds, wholegrains which do not contain gluten, and they try to cook from scratch as much as possible and have limited pre-prepared foods -- they can then avoid this problem." works pretty well for him....

The Patriots, Hunter Pence, Kobe Bryant, Lolo Jones -- all Paleo-ish.

Nadal's diet seems to work too, "Chocolate! Nutella! French fries"

It is not nice to pick and choose evidence that matches your hypothesis,

Keyes did that which is why we are now in this mess.

7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on June 18, 2013
at 01:36 PM

Examples of successful vegan dieters really say nothing because it's tiny niche diet to begin with, and many if not most people who try it don't stick with it. The success are merely the tiny, self-selected minority of people who can do well on a vegan diet.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 18, 2013
at 01:51 PM

Of course a cat would be pro-carnivore ;)

5
72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on June 17, 2013
at 08:55 PM

This has come up many times. There are a few standard responses:

1) Eating raw food often means removing lots of awful processed junk from your diet. A raw or vegan diet can still include lots of highly processed soy and white flower and vegetable oils, but typically the people who self-identify and proselytize that way are eating pretty clean and natural. That gives them a lot of advantages over someone eating the SAD. They're probably also pretty health-conscious in other ways, such as getting physical activity, not smoking, getting sunshine, etc.

2) Eliminating lots of foods gives people who were being sickened by various intolerances, allergies, etc., a chance to get better. This means that any restrictive diet -- especially one where people experiment and find out what really works for them -- will lead to health improvements for at least some people.

3) Some people may do well without meat for a while, but they're at risk of long-term deficiencies.

4) A raw vegan diet is probably appropriate for some people and not others. Even if it's inappropriate for most people, the ones who stay on it will largely be the ones who respond well, so it will come out looking good. The same is almost certainly true for paleo.

Anyway, explore for yourself. I'd suggest getting some advice on your current diet before giving up on paleo -- there are lots of ways to adjust it to your needs, and certainly more to it than "eat meat." But if you try a raw vegan diet and it really improves your life in the ways that matter to you, then more power to you!

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on June 18, 2013
at 01:50 PM

The only thing I'd add to this is that true vegans will eventually run into vitamin deficiency problems. B12 is the most obvious, but I am sure there are others. They feel better for a while because they stop eating crap, but eventually they run out of important stuff and can seriously damage themselves if they don't go off the diet.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on June 18, 2013
at 08:52 PM

I don't know that I can say that is totally accurate. I think in this day and age, they can avoid vitamin deficiency problems. They just have to work a lot harder at it than the rest of us.

4
8ce8b8fd33944e67dfd6277e7b671815

(327)

on June 18, 2013
at 07:13 AM

I don't know if you'd call the diaz bros successful raw vegan fighters, they train hardcore stamina and are very whispy looking. They lose almost every fight due to their vegan diet, they have no muscle mass and get over powered almost every fight. George literally picked nick apart and made him bend over, but besides that yes you may be able to do athletically inclined things on any diet, but it's not optimal.

reason why veganism is bad

most fats will be polyunsaturated, fat that's inflammatory

most of your protein sources won't be complete proteins

No vit b12

heavy supplementation is required to get full nutrition req

9c4ba98a3b480408bcf207f558fe659b

(355)

on June 19, 2013
at 10:44 AM

What planet are you from where you think the Diaz brothers aren't successful fighters? Utter, utter insanity.

1
75d65450b6ff0be7b969fb321f1200ac

(2506)

on June 18, 2013
at 05:12 PM

I think one can do well on a raw vegan diet, for a while at least, especially if one is coming from the Standard American Diet (SAD). Your body will get cleaned out over a period of several weeks/months and you'll no doubt be experiencing a dramatic increase in nourishment. My complaints with a vegan approach are:

1) It relies heavily on grains for protein. Those with bowel issues would be best advised to give up on all grains. There are gluten sensitive folks who probably should also give up all grain and not just wheat-based grain. If you cannot handle grains then you need some other protein source. Meat/fish/offal seem to fit in perfectly.

2) A vegan diet is likely to be carb heavy (grains, starchy veggies), protein light and probably fat light. Over a period of time one might find such a balance of macro nutrients to be lacking, especially depending on one's lifestyle. Of course I am biased to the Paleo approach but I really do feel more fat and less carbs is a more natural and sustainable approach.

Yet I don't judge those on a vegan diet too harshly. They are eating better than most Americans. If it makes them feel healthy, great. I just hope they (well, everyone) is open minded enough to change one's diet as required rather than being dogmatic to some preconceived ideal.

_Lazza

1
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on June 18, 2013
at 11:33 AM

Vegan diets have really nothing to do with athleticism.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 18, 2013
at 12:16 PM

The Williams Sisters were doing pretty well on the fast food diet as well....

0
9c4ba98a3b480408bcf207f558fe659b

(355)

on June 19, 2013
at 10:40 AM

Re: Nate Diaz

"...eating almost exclusively raw fruits and vegetables, organic and whole foods as opposed to manufactured foods, and only occasionally throwing in fish and eggs"

Actually sounds pretty Paleo to me

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on June 19, 2013
at 08:25 PM

Fish and eggs doesn't sound vegan to me...

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