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Crazy macro ratios....

Commented on January 19, 2014
Created January 15, 2014 at 9:24 PM

I still see a lot of people obsessing over macro ratios. What do you think is a good baseline Paleo macro ratios? How far off of that do you think you can get while still being "paleo" because of the foods you're avoiding rather than those you're actually eating more of? Do you think ratios are important? Do you think they're completely unimportant?

Anyone doing any really extreme macro ratios like 80F/10C/10P or 20F/20C/60P? The latter sounds dangerous but I've seen newbies posting macros like that.

B023a84cf6f4dd3e2469df99ab626346

(5)

on January 19, 2014
at 07:12 PM

"

You tell yourself whatever you want to if you want to feel better about eating those french fries,"

But restricting carbs and eating all the bacon, fatty meats, and butter will improve my health?

You must be in the carbs make you fat group... wow

btw: It's based on labs, symptoms, pulse, body temp.... I had a friend go from a body temp of 96.5 to 98.3 switching to a high carb low fat diet.... His Free T3 also doubled...

I'm not against paleo style diet, I'm just against extreme high fat low carbs diet for the matter of losing wiehgt

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on January 19, 2014
at 06:57 PM

You tell yourself whatever you want to if you want to feel better about eating those french fries, but there is absolutely no evidence to back up your claims. Anecdotal evidence is garbage, and that seems to be what your spewing on here. Your research is profoundly inadequate. Nice attempt to gain credibility by saying you were anti carb, almost made me laugh there.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on January 19, 2014
at 04:35 PM

Before throwing out ridiculous statements please point to the science that backs up your claim. That statement was pure BS, fat is the macronutrient that causes the least metabolic stress. Energy obtained from oxidation of fat produces less ROS, fat doesn't raise insulin or IGF-1 levels like carbs and protein do, both of which activate PI3K and thereby inhibit autophagy and cellular repair, while simultaneously promoting cellular proliferation and protein synthesis leading to aging, cancer, and degenerative diseases. Look it up.

B023a84cf6f4dd3e2469df99ab626346

(5)

on January 19, 2014
at 04:09 PM

You might be ok at 50% fat if your PUFA are kept very low.... Majority of people will do much better at 50% carbs...and fat around 20-25%, protein around 20-25%.... depending on the person and goals

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on January 19, 2014
at 05:19 AM

...tho if you are talking polyunsaturated fats, the 'dangerous' fat % is much lower

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on January 19, 2014
at 05:08 AM

"anything over 40% fat would probably induce metabolic stress"...you'll be pushing it uphill to sell that statement here. having said that, when i get a chance, i will check out your refs for this assertion

Medium avatar

(624)

on January 17, 2014
at 11:55 PM

Very interesting article. This is exactly the kind of material I was hoping would bubble to the surface from this post! I'm not entirely convinced to go up to 50% carbs but I have been fluctuating and experimenting lately and find that not only do I subjectively "feel" better with a little more carbs, I find it a lot easier to fill out all my micronutrient requirements. I'm thinking I might move closer to 40/40/20 F/C/P. In part this is just because I love carbs AND fats and want to believe that my appetite is smarter than the dogma.

Medium avatar

(624)

on January 17, 2014
at 09:59 PM

I also would like to point out that the myth you refer to is one I did not. I said "don't cause insulin spikes" not "doesn't raise insulin levels"...

Medium avatar

(624)

on January 17, 2014
at 07:31 PM

I suppose I'll have to be more clear when I "throw" these things out there that what I'm really looking for is validation or a counterpoint. I said that thing about sweet potatoes to see if someone would come and either validate it with some solid backing or tell me I'm mistaken. It was as much a question as a statement and I apologize for not being crystal clear in that.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on January 17, 2014
at 07:03 PM

Fair enough, I get where you're coming from. It's just that sometimes statements like that are interpreted by some as fact and not as a mere recollection of an article. This is why we have such a prevalence of broscience in the health and fitness community, people begin saying things that aren't true but sound legitimately scientific and others pick up on it and perpetuate it. Hence my request for citations when you mentioned the sweet potato insulin thing. Btw my GF also does the same thing.

Medium avatar

(624)

on January 17, 2014
at 06:38 PM

That's a bit extreme. I come on here and offer opinions and i-thought-i-read's all the time. I make the very clear distinction between whether I'm claiming something as fact or just throwing it out there. This is kind of like when I say "I think we might have had X scheduled at that time" and my GF looks at me all serious and says "ARE YOU SURE?" No! I'm not sure.

Medium avatar

(624)

on January 17, 2014
at 06:34 PM

It's hard to imagine having trouble getting protein in. I tend to get more than I need/want whenever I have one meaty meal in the day. What kind of food are you eating? Are you avoiding meat for some reason? I mean, even the fattiest of meat has lots of protein. However, I second sardines if you really need some more. So delicious, nutritious and convenient!

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on January 17, 2014
at 04:43 PM

Lol, yeah repetition will do that to our taste buds. Luckily I still haven't gotten tired of them, I pan fry them when I take them out of the can along with the olive oil they come with and sometimes some olives, garlic, onions and parsley thrown in; they are much better tasting that way, which is probably why I haven't gotten sick of them.

Medium avatar

(58)

on January 17, 2014
at 04:05 PM

I ate them 4-5 times a week for 3 months, and now I can't stand them...their convenience was a curse.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on January 17, 2014
at 03:56 PM

Sardines! I love them. The Brunswick brand sells them for dirt cheap ($1.29 a can where I live). I get the ones in olive oil they have the best taste, each can has 19g of protein and a whole bunch of other good stuff, like iron, calcium, vitamin d, vitamin b12, etc.

Medium avatar

(58)

on January 17, 2014
at 03:39 PM

I have no issue getting protein in, as i can eat a lot of it! I think the most convenient way is tuna or sardines. The Starkist Gourmet Selects tuna is is my favorite right now.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on January 17, 2014
at 01:28 AM

Thats a myth, sweet potatoes do raise insulin, otherwise the cells in your body would not be able to absorb the glucose and it would remain in your blood thereby causing hyperglycemia (high blood sugar). Saying "I read somewhere that...." doesn't make it true. Please provide scientific proof from a clinical study before making claims about supernatural events, like sweet potatoes not raising insulin levels after a meal, for example.

Af679502f1e31c0c59c79bd08f324b35

(559)

on January 17, 2014
at 12:40 AM

Yes I have read that as well... My only carb source outside ifvegetables are sweet potatoes.

Medium avatar

(624)

on January 16, 2014
at 11:48 PM

Didn't I read somewhere that sweet potatoes can improve insulin sensitivity and don't really cause insulin spikes? Espcially when eaten with a huge helping of butter...

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on January 16, 2014
at 10:48 PM

Oh and by the way, who cares what Peat (or anyone else for that matter) thinks. These are facts based on human physiology, not some guru(s) and their "ideology" or whatever they choose to believe. If you "believe" cyanide won't kill you, that doesn't mean you can get away with eating it; you will die. Physiology and biochemistry are not religions, they are verifiable, inescapable sciences that are bodies are bound to.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on January 16, 2014
at 10:40 PM

Combining fat and carbs would reduce the insulin spike in a carb-and-fat meal compared with an isocaloric carb-only meal since the calories from fat would displace the calories from carbohydrates, thus resulting in a decreased insulin spike. However, if none, or very few, carbs are consumed the insulin spike is even less, i.e. almost none, since fat has a negligible effect on insulin release.

Af679502f1e31c0c59c79bd08f324b35

(559)

on January 16, 2014
at 09:52 PM

While I don't completely agree with Peat he would completely disagree with that. We can agree to disagree. High fat works for you that's awesome it doesn't for me I need 100-200g of carbs a day. I get 40-45% of calories from fat but if I can't replenish my glycogen I'm in trouble.

Also combining fat and carbs dramatically reduce the insuline spike

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on January 16, 2014
at 09:28 PM

It is superior because it doesn't cause spikes in insulin (which promotes aging and increased adiposity), it doesn't cause elevated levels of IGF-1 (which promotes aging and tumorigenesis), it doesn't elevate blood glucose (which causes glycation and tissue damage), and produces less ROS when it is oxidized by the body via beta-oxidation than glucose.

Af679502f1e31c0c59c79bd08f324b35

(559)

on January 16, 2014
at 09:19 PM

How is fat a superior energy source? It is an alternative way of fueling your body. The only reason I see cutting carbs out is for a medical reason like Hasimotos

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on January 16, 2014
at 09:05 PM

This is what people fail to comprehend, no one eats to fill out some ratio, we eat because we are hungry. It just so happens that when we eat, we eat fat and limit carbs (and protein to some degree) because fat is a superior source of fuel. What is weird about eating almonds, paleo egg salad, bacon, olives, sardines in olive oil, or avocados? Seriously, when you eat delicious food that is low carb and high in fat who cares about ratios, they take care of themselves.

Medium avatar

(58)

on January 16, 2014
at 05:59 PM

I don't eat fat just to get it in and make it to a certain ratio, I eat it because I'm hungry, it tastes good, usually doesn't have carbs, makes me fell better and loose weight. I don't agree with people eating fat only to "balance out their ratio"

Medium avatar

(58)

on January 16, 2014
at 05:55 PM

@desenchanten, @Methodician - here's 3 days (don't judge about the processed stuff, i ran out of some things and had to make some exceptions, also, I'm human):

I can provide bigger images if this is too small. Dairy and bulletproof coffee really helps up the fat. When I wasn't doing dairy, I would make coconut oil candy with chocolate and stevia and eat that or coconut milk, ice, chocolate and stevia blended.

@paint94979, I feel better with less carbs as I have Hashimotos. low carb helps with brain fog, fatigue, cravings and weight gain that are associated with Hashi's.

Af679502f1e31c0c59c79bd08f324b35

(559)

on January 16, 2014
at 05:04 PM

Beware of extended periods of VLC as it has been shown that women have a higher likeliness of developing hypothyroidism as opposed to men

Medium avatar

(624)

on January 16, 2014
at 04:23 PM

It just sounds like too much protein for me... I tend to have just a bit of protein each day with plenty of fat and ample carbs. I don't work out heavily but maintain very low body fat (not as low as yours I don't think). I just eat lots of whole foods and avoid the bad things like most grains, industrial seed oils, and heavily processed foods.

Medium avatar

(624)

on January 16, 2014
at 04:15 PM

I just want to know how you do that consistently. I had to really push it to get up to about 75% fat a couple times. I don't think could do it consistently. What do you eat? Do you just eat oil all day with a little meat and salad at the end or what?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 16, 2014
at 12:47 PM

Fitness models have too much broscience in their heads.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 16, 2014
at 12:41 PM

Be careful defining paleo on the backs of exceptions. Few people need to be strictly gluten-free, few people need to go ketogenic, the Inuit were one of many traditional cultures and certainly they were outside the norm. Not sure why @Laura48 eats the way she does, but if you play the odds, she's not severely gluten sensitive or needs to be on a ketogenic diet for non-weight loss reasons.

Medium avatar

on January 16, 2014
at 09:02 AM

Out of curiosity, as a 'newbie' to paleo, would you be willing to post a typical day's intake of food that fits the 80% fat macro?

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on January 16, 2014
at 04:47 AM

"Diet should be effortless"...I think for some this could be tricky, i'm thinking particularly of those that 'have to' follow a particular diet for medical reasons, such as a highly ketogenic diet for brain related conditions (also seen pcos mentioned)...info according to wiki here

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on January 16, 2014
at 04:40 AM

it should be noted that there are many variations/versions of paleo. starting paleo for me was Not effortless, i think it was due to me restricting carbs when i started (all part of the personal learning curve...but may have been a good thing for me to do).

but now my 'personal paleo diet' 'allows' me to eat plenty of carbs & dairy, i'm glad to say, it is now effortless

Af679502f1e31c0c59c79bd08f324b35

(559)

on January 16, 2014
at 03:58 AM

If 80% fat works for you that's great. If I was eating that much fat I would want myself to reevaluate my macros. Carbs are a very important macro nutrient. It is our body's preferred energy source. Paleo is not ever intended to be an extreme diet.

Medium avatar

(58)

on January 16, 2014
at 03:25 AM

@Matt 11 - just like it's effortless to start Paleo? Not difficult at all, right? Give me a break.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 15, 2014
at 10:37 PM

Yes, that's extreme and you know it, as you called it difficult. Diet should be effortless.

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9 Answers

0
B023a84cf6f4dd3e2469df99ab626346

on January 19, 2014
at 05:15 PM

I don't need to look up flawed studies ... I have seen it myself (and several others ) based on my own independent lab testing, pulse, body temp... High fat low carb diets were always at the bottom for improving health.. Even though I'm against veggie diets I have seen people do better on them than very low carb high fat diets

I'm just giving my own research info out . I was anti carbs for years

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on January 19, 2014
at 06:57 PM

You tell yourself whatever you want to if you want to feel better about eating those french fries, but there is absolutely no evidence to back up your claims. Anecdotal evidence is garbage, and that seems to be what your spewing on here. Your research is profoundly inadequate. Nice attempt to gain credibility by saying you were anti carb, almost made me laugh there.

0
B023a84cf6f4dd3e2469df99ab626346

on January 19, 2014
at 03:20 AM

anything over 40% fat would probably induce metabolic stress....

B023a84cf6f4dd3e2469df99ab626346

(5)

on January 19, 2014
at 04:09 PM

You might be ok at 50% fat if your PUFA are kept very low.... Majority of people will do much better at 50% carbs...and fat around 20-25%, protein around 20-25%.... depending on the person and goals

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on January 19, 2014
at 04:35 PM

Before throwing out ridiculous statements please point to the science that backs up your claim. That statement was pure BS, fat is the macronutrient that causes the least metabolic stress. Energy obtained from oxidation of fat produces less ROS, fat doesn't raise insulin or IGF-1 levels like carbs and protein do, both of which activate PI3K and thereby inhibit autophagy and cellular repair, while simultaneously promoting cellular proliferation and protein synthesis leading to aging, cancer, and degenerative diseases. Look it up.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on January 19, 2014
at 05:08 AM

"anything over 40% fat would probably induce metabolic stress"...you'll be pushing it uphill to sell that statement here. having said that, when i get a chance, i will check out your refs for this assertion

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on January 19, 2014
at 05:19 AM

...tho if you are talking polyunsaturated fats, the 'dangerous' fat % is much lower

0
157a6c8d89eb0123794555ee89e9c2b6

on January 19, 2014
at 02:37 AM

50-55 fat, 20-25 carbs and protein.

0
B023a84cf6f4dd3e2469df99ab626346

on January 17, 2014
at 10:49 PM

50% carbs, 25% fats, 25% protein... works very well

http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2011/05/who-said-paleo-diet-had-high-fat.html?showComment=1305626614368

Eaton et al recommended that a modern rendition of Paleolithic diet supply only about 20% of calories as fat, with about 25% of calories as protein and 55% of calories as carbohydrate.

Medium avatar

(624)

on January 17, 2014
at 11:55 PM

Very interesting article. This is exactly the kind of material I was hoping would bubble to the surface from this post! I'm not entirely convinced to go up to 50% carbs but I have been fluctuating and experimenting lately and find that not only do I subjectively "feel" better with a little more carbs, I find it a lot easier to fill out all my micronutrient requirements. I'm thinking I might move closer to 40/40/20 F/C/P. In part this is just because I love carbs AND fats and want to believe that my appetite is smarter than the dogma.

0
Medium avatar

on January 17, 2014
at 07:41 PM

Here's my frank-and-honest average macro ratios: 48% fat, 29% carb, 16% protein, and 7% alcohol...

The alcohol % may be a bit higher because I don't always log it into cronometer when I'm tracking but I do drink 2-4 drinks almost every night...

My actual goals are 55/30/15 F/C/P. For someone who isn't terribly active, I think many would consider my carb intake kind of extreme.

Try as I may I can't find any really compelling reason to cut out the alcohol but I do sometimes contemplate it. I wonder if I would become more productive or just relax after work sober?

0
7b9d154c0f3cc15d5645c21cd32481e8

on January 17, 2014
at 05:07 AM

I am doing a LCHF (low carb high fat) diet within my paleo guidelines. I have my macros set to 65 f/25 p/ and 10c. But the last few days it is looking more like 80/15/5. I am trying to figure out a way to increase my protein more.

Medium avatar

(624)

on January 17, 2014
at 06:34 PM

It's hard to imagine having trouble getting protein in. I tend to get more than I need/want whenever I have one meaty meal in the day. What kind of food are you eating? Are you avoiding meat for some reason? I mean, even the fattiest of meat has lots of protein. However, I second sardines if you really need some more. So delicious, nutritious and convenient!

Medium avatar

(58)

on January 17, 2014
at 03:39 PM

I have no issue getting protein in, as i can eat a lot of it! I think the most convenient way is tuna or sardines. The Starkist Gourmet Selects tuna is is my favorite right now.

0
Af679502f1e31c0c59c79bd08f324b35

on January 16, 2014
at 04:57 PM

One thing I have a very hard time understanding are peoples obsessions with paleo means HIGH fat!!! Do you really think loading up on bullet proof coffee, taking 5 tbsp of coconut oil to the face and or drinking lard daily is healthy? Dont get me wrong I use .25 tbsp of butter in my eggs, 2 slices of bacon daily, and add .5 tbsp of butter to my morning sweet potato. I have completely given coconut anything as it raises my LDL higher than I'd like (179 and according to my VAP my particles aremostly large and buoyant.) Eat whole foods without adding unnecessary amounts of fat.

Medium avatar

(58)

on January 16, 2014
at 05:59 PM

I don't eat fat just to get it in and make it to a certain ratio, I eat it because I'm hungry, it tastes good, usually doesn't have carbs, makes me fell better and loose weight. I don't agree with people eating fat only to "balance out their ratio"

0
Eb87941a669017dfb288d296cc672130

on January 16, 2014
at 02:47 AM

What one considers "crazy macros" is relative. Like, a fitness models macros of 40/40/20 P/C/F looks crazy to most people on here, but Sisson's macros of 66/18/16 P/C/F looks totally crazy to a fitness model. So, yeah.

I posted a "question" (not really but kind of) where I posted estimated HG macros which I though seemed "balanced" as in not heavily skewed towards any one macro.

I don't always track, but I plugged in my macros from yesterday and they came in at 45/32/26. I ate a protein shake mixed whole milk and oatmeal post workout. chicken breast/broccoli/ salad (romaine/feta/red onion/celery/olives/balsamic vinegar) for lunch. chicken breasts/kale for dinner and cottage cheese/almonds before bed.

This might seem crazy low fat to some people or high carb cause I have oats after working out, but that's what I feel good on and it's been typical for me as of late. I don't eat eggs or butter and sometimes use natty peanut butter instead of almonds cause whatever. I also eat sardines instead of chicken breasts at lunch sometimes and at dinner sometimes I do a lean cut of bison instead of chicken breast. I've done keto and didn't work for me. I feel much better with a starchy carb post workout and protein a little higher than keto allows for. I eat a good balance of fats for my body type too from whole fat dairy and olives/nuts.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 16, 2014
at 12:47 PM

Fitness models have too much broscience in their heads.

Medium avatar

(624)

on January 16, 2014
at 04:23 PM

It just sounds like too much protein for me... I tend to have just a bit of protein each day with plenty of fat and ample carbs. I don't work out heavily but maintain very low body fat (not as low as yours I don't think). I just eat lots of whole foods and avoid the bad things like most grains, industrial seed oils, and heavily processed foods.

0
Medium avatar

on January 15, 2014
at 10:05 PM

here's my ratio, they don't vary much except on weekends: screen shot 2014-01-15 at 3.58.52 pm.png. Is mine considered extreme? I'm not doing much exercise now, and I've done some yo-yoing in the past so to loose weight I do VLC. I am paying a lot of attention to the amount of carbs and protein I eat, but not so much the ratio. I try to get under 25 carbs a day, which is really difficult for me.

Medium avatar

(58)

on January 16, 2014
at 05:55 PM

@desenchanten, @Methodician - here's 3 days (don't judge about the processed stuff, i ran out of some things and had to make some exceptions, also, I'm human):

I can provide bigger images if this is too small. Dairy and bulletproof coffee really helps up the fat. When I wasn't doing dairy, I would make coconut oil candy with chocolate and stevia and eat that or coconut milk, ice, chocolate and stevia blended.

@paint94979, I feel better with less carbs as I have Hashimotos. low carb helps with brain fog, fatigue, cravings and weight gain that are associated with Hashi's.

Af679502f1e31c0c59c79bd08f324b35

(559)

on January 16, 2014
at 03:58 AM

If 80% fat works for you that's great. If I was eating that much fat I would want myself to reevaluate my macros. Carbs are a very important macro nutrient. It is our body's preferred energy source. Paleo is not ever intended to be an extreme diet.

Medium avatar

on January 16, 2014
at 09:02 AM

Out of curiosity, as a 'newbie' to paleo, would you be willing to post a typical day's intake of food that fits the 80% fat macro?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 15, 2014
at 10:37 PM

Yes, that's extreme and you know it, as you called it difficult. Diet should be effortless.

Af679502f1e31c0c59c79bd08f324b35

(559)

on January 16, 2014
at 05:04 PM

Beware of extended periods of VLC as it has been shown that women have a higher likeliness of developing hypothyroidism as opposed to men

Medium avatar

(624)

on January 16, 2014
at 04:15 PM

I just want to know how you do that consistently. I had to really push it to get up to about 75% fat a couple times. I don't think could do it consistently. What do you eat? Do you just eat oil all day with a little meat and salad at the end or what?

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