2

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Pre and Post work out nutrition

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 23, 2010 at 12:17 AM

Hello everyone

I'm going to start a new training program. I have lost 70 pounds in the last years. OK guys this is not for my blog, but just to show you what I mean.... I have nothing to sell or gain or anything

http://guythehealthypaleoguy.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/my-oath-to-you-september-13th-2010/

So I am going to start the TNT program if you guys know it, but I am also going to go strick Paleo for a month in october,I just finished Robb's Paleo Solution book and I am convinced to go all the way, meaning cutting the dairy.

I've never taken whey before, or made special pre and post nutrition.

I am 5 foot 10 inch and weight 165 pounds, I think I want to start exercising to lose maybe 10 pounds of fat, but gain pounds of muscles

I've read about yams and sweet potatoes after, I guess there should be some proteins, but I am totally new so have practical idea about it all? By the way I am a strong user of coconut milk and coconut oil if this can help.

If you have experience I would really appreciate it!!!!! Thanks Guy

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 01, 2011
at 06:36 PM

Kudos to both of you! Looking through past threads to confirm what I have been seeing in myself. Thanks!

F9e59a62c46422660c692033146c12fc

(95)

on September 26, 2010
at 08:30 PM

I like your way of thinking.... I think part of the situation is to 'repair' or 'restore' the damage done over the years while applying your logic, which i totally agree with!!!! Thanks

F9e59a62c46422660c692033146c12fc

(95)

on September 26, 2010
at 08:28 PM

I like your way of thinking!!!!!

5be844214037850c304c1e6a05dc5277

on September 24, 2010
at 12:23 AM

As a follow up I just wanted to say I think the field of nutrition science is still very immature, and it just seems to me that protein+carbs and no fat post-workout is potentially a fair deviation from our evolutionary metabolic milieu! As a male one thing I can be sure of is for millennia my ancestors hunted animals (exercise) and afterwards consumed copius amounts of protein+fat (post workout meal) with carbs completely optional! This is one area where I just feel Paleo reasoning trumps some random metabolic study which can never take into account the big picture of what is optimum health!

5be844214037850c304c1e6a05dc5277

on September 24, 2010
at 12:21 AM

As a follow up I just wanted to say I think the field of nutrition science is still very immature, and it just seems to me that protein+carbs and no fat post-workout is potentially a fair deviation from what our evolutionary metabolic milieu! As a male one thing I can be sure of is for millennia my ancestors hunted animals (exercise) and afterwards consumed copius amounts of protein+fat with carbs completely optional! This is one area where I just feel Paleo reasoning trumps some random metabolic study which can never take into account the big picture of health, hormones drives, etc.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on September 23, 2010
at 05:03 PM

@Eva: My idea of strong is a woman who will pick it up and carry it herself and glare at me when I offer to help. Also, just because I don't want to be crucified by my strength/conditioning buddies: 400-lb deadlift isn't actually strong, but it's a good starting point for my fitness goals.

F9e59a62c46422660c692033146c12fc

(95)

on September 23, 2010
at 08:43 AM

Thanks Jae Rereading what everybody wrote I understand better. Yes I will do the exercise carefully and respect the 48 hours recovery, so has you mention carb loding is not a necessity, very interesting point. A deadlift of 400 is not my goal, but that's my direction/inspiration. I remember in my youthfull schooldays I enjoyed weight lifting and looking at the Russian guys in the olympics!!! Maybe my subconscious speaking..... Thanks again, and great blog of yours! Guy

F9e59a62c46422660c692033146c12fc

(95)

on September 23, 2010
at 08:34 AM

Thanks! KISS is an acronym for the design principle "Keep it simple, Stupid!".[1] Other variations include "keep it short and simple"[2] or "keep it simple and straightforward".[3] The KISS principle states that simplicity should be a key goal in design, and that unnecessary complexity should be avoided. Didn't know the expression LOL

F9e59a62c46422660c692033146c12fc

(95)

on September 23, 2010
at 08:32 AM

Thanks, great idea, have gone to his podacst page and found a few entries on pre and post workout nutrition! Thanks again Diane!

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on September 23, 2010
at 03:42 AM

Then there is the woman's idea of strong which is a man that can carry all the heavy stuff that needs carrying without a bunch of groaning and whining about it. I don't care about your benchpress, but I do like watching a guy heft a 100 pound piece of wallboard that I need moved and carry it across the room.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on September 23, 2010
at 02:27 AM

Well, your idea of a "healthy strong body" is maybe different from mine. My idea of "strong" is to deadlift over 400. A powerlifter's idea of "strong" is to deadlift over 500 or 600, maybe more. A runner's idea of "strong" is to pick up his own groceries. You get the picture. Don't worry about it too much. Your goals will probably evolve. But I think you will satisfy your personal goals of moderate fat loss + moderate muscle gain if you just eat enough good food, sleep enough, and lift heavy weights. Then re-evaluate what your goals are.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on September 23, 2010
at 02:24 AM

I dunno if she'll know, but she will probably check this at some point. Go ahead and add a comment. =)

F9e59a62c46422660c692033146c12fc

(95)

on September 23, 2010
at 02:17 AM

WOW, this is amazing!!! Thanks, my goal at this point is not athletic. My goal is a healthy strong body, and that I do enjoy resistance weight training as a personal body building sport. Ego aside I want to look good and feel good. You've seen the pictures, thanks, Maybe I am obsessed about the love handles that used to be much bigger and that in my mind I still see. I have no idea / mental image of what I would look like if I had muscles on, I have nothing to compare, so maybe this sounds silly but I don't know how/what I should look like at 5'10''. PS Does Diane know when I add a comment?

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4 Answers

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3
4a1966b5bc00a9aefd3abd63b9913284

on September 23, 2010
at 01:12 AM

If you are still trying to lean out, loading up on yams/sp's post workout isn't really the best idea, however, eating them in some quantity is still probably okay. The idea with post workout carbs isn't to "carb load" PWO but rather to eat the bulk of your carbs for the day in the post workout window as opposed to beforehand. You are looking to replace glycogen you've just depleted with the workout AND you're body will be in a state where it can get glucose into your cells without the help of insulin. This "phenomenon" is called non-insulin mediated glucose transport and it just means that glucose can get into cells (and replace muscle glycogen) more easily and without the help of insulin post workout. This is one of the benefits of exercise- hooray!

Re: fats- essentially your body isn't going to be using fats as effectively post workout as it does carbs and protein since you're looking to replace glycogen (stored form of glucose). So, it doesn't mean you have do to a nonfat meal, just that adding extra at this time isn't so ideal. I'd eat the bulk of your fats the rest of the day and just don't add extra post workout.

Hope that helps. Robb Wolf has tons on this in his podcasts- I'd search his site for post workout or PWO nutrition and you'll find which ones to listen to that way.

F9e59a62c46422660c692033146c12fc

(95)

on September 23, 2010
at 08:32 AM

Thanks, great idea, have gone to his podacst page and found a few entries on pre and post workout nutrition! Thanks again Diane!

best answer

3
77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on September 23, 2010
at 01:47 AM

I didn't read your blog, but I did see your pictures.

  1. Awesome transformation! That is pretty badass.

  2. You don't provide enough info about your goals. How much muscle do you want to gain? What are your fitness (not necessarily aesthetic) goals? Are you interested more in being a long-distance runner (yuck) or strong as a bull? It's ok if you don't have a clear idea of what these are, or if you don't care. But telling us "I don't know what my fitness goals are" will help us figure out what kind of advice to give you. Since you didn't specify a whole lot, I'm going to guess that you don't have a great sense of what your goals are, but correct me if I"m wrong.

  3. In general, you look like you could stand to gain about 15-50 lbs., depending on your goals. Personally, I would rather be 5'10" and 200 than 5'10" 170, but to each his own. At this stage,, I would not worry about losing 10 lbs. of fat. I would just eat a TON (3500-4500 calories a day), lift heavy weights, and let my body composition take care of itself for the next few months. But that's just me.

  4. Don't worry about pre- and post-workout nutrition too much at this stage. Just be consistent with Paleo, get plenty of sleep, make sure you are training intelligently.

  5. If you want to mess around with macronutrient timing, Diane got you off to a good start. But you should be aware that for PWO (post-workout) nutrition, there are some very intelligent, dissenting voices that argue that extra carbohydrate intake PWO is not necessary and in fact may be counterproductive to long-term health. It's kinda complicated, and frankly I don't understand it all that well. Unless you have specific short-term goals with regard to your fitness, I would just not worry about it too much.

Generally the argument for NOT increasing carbs PWO is something like "glycogen replenishment is indeed FASTER via higher carb intake PWO, but not necessarily BETTER, especially if you are going to wait 24-48 hours between workouts anyway." If you are an athlete who needs to replenish glycogen stores for another grueling event that will take place in 4 hours, then sure. If you're like the rest of us, then maybe not.

As with everything Paleo- and health-related, TINKER and figure out what works for you. But at this point, what you really need to do is start lifting heavy things and eating a lot of good food, IMO.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on September 23, 2010
at 02:24 AM

I dunno if she'll know, but she will probably check this at some point. Go ahead and add a comment. =)

F9e59a62c46422660c692033146c12fc

(95)

on September 23, 2010
at 02:17 AM

WOW, this is amazing!!! Thanks, my goal at this point is not athletic. My goal is a healthy strong body, and that I do enjoy resistance weight training as a personal body building sport. Ego aside I want to look good and feel good. You've seen the pictures, thanks, Maybe I am obsessed about the love handles that used to be much bigger and that in my mind I still see. I have no idea / mental image of what I would look like if I had muscles on, I have nothing to compare, so maybe this sounds silly but I don't know how/what I should look like at 5'10''. PS Does Diane know when I add a comment?

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on September 23, 2010
at 03:42 AM

Then there is the woman's idea of strong which is a man that can carry all the heavy stuff that needs carrying without a bunch of groaning and whining about it. I don't care about your benchpress, but I do like watching a guy heft a 100 pound piece of wallboard that I need moved and carry it across the room.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on September 23, 2010
at 05:03 PM

@Eva: My idea of strong is a woman who will pick it up and carry it herself and glare at me when I offer to help. Also, just because I don't want to be crucified by my strength/conditioning buddies: 400-lb deadlift isn't actually strong, but it's a good starting point for my fitness goals.

F9e59a62c46422660c692033146c12fc

(95)

on September 23, 2010
at 08:43 AM

Thanks Jae Rereading what everybody wrote I understand better. Yes I will do the exercise carefully and respect the 48 hours recovery, so has you mention carb loding is not a necessity, very interesting point. A deadlift of 400 is not my goal, but that's my direction/inspiration. I remember in my youthfull schooldays I enjoyed weight lifting and looking at the Russian guys in the olympics!!! Maybe my subconscious speaking..... Thanks again, and great blog of yours! Guy

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on September 23, 2010
at 02:27 AM

Well, your idea of a "healthy strong body" is maybe different from mine. My idea of "strong" is to deadlift over 400. A powerlifter's idea of "strong" is to deadlift over 500 or 600, maybe more. A runner's idea of "strong" is to pick up his own groceries. You get the picture. Don't worry about it too much. Your goals will probably evolve. But I think you will satisfy your personal goals of moderate fat loss + moderate muscle gain if you just eat enough good food, sleep enough, and lift heavy weights. Then re-evaluate what your goals are.

1
D25307ea58300b9569b5a130444f7e14

(247)

on September 23, 2010
at 01:22 AM

Keep it simple and don't overthink your pre or post nutrition. Your body will crave carbs, and food in general. Just dont give in to copious amounts of sugars, and sweet stuff to fulfill this craving. I have always stuck to more protein then fat after a strength day usually 60%Protein,20%Carb,10%Fat, and more fat less protein on most other sprint, walks, cardio days.

But like I said keep it simple, always remember the KISS method. Don't freak out that you havn't gotten enough protein, fat, etc. It all balances out over time..tweak as you go and don't expect perfection right outa the gate.

F9e59a62c46422660c692033146c12fc

(95)

on September 23, 2010
at 08:34 AM

Thanks! KISS is an acronym for the design principle "Keep it simple, Stupid!".[1] Other variations include "keep it short and simple"[2] or "keep it simple and straightforward".[3] The KISS principle states that simplicity should be a key goal in design, and that unnecessary complexity should be avoided. Didn't know the expression LOL

1
5be844214037850c304c1e6a05dc5277

on September 23, 2010
at 12:40 AM

I am very sceptical of this carbs+protein (and no fat) for post workout nutrition idea... Perhaps it is just the longevity over performance bias I have, and the fact I have achieved great success without deviating from the stock standard fasted workouts and a big healthy paleo meal afterwards... I'll admit I am a little ignorant on the current science behind it specifically, but I haven't come across much in my general investigation into Paleo which I think says a little bit... Anyway I just wanted to say this is one person who is not a proponent (at least yet). I've experimented around a bit, and the clearest rule I've found is less carbs = less hunger and less body-fat. Simple as that.

P.S. Wonderful transformation, keep it up!

5be844214037850c304c1e6a05dc5277

on September 24, 2010
at 12:21 AM

As a follow up I just wanted to say I think the field of nutrition science is still very immature, and it just seems to me that protein+carbs and no fat post-workout is potentially a fair deviation from what our evolutionary metabolic milieu! As a male one thing I can be sure of is for millennia my ancestors hunted animals (exercise) and afterwards consumed copius amounts of protein+fat with carbs completely optional! This is one area where I just feel Paleo reasoning trumps some random metabolic study which can never take into account the big picture of health, hormones drives, etc.

F9e59a62c46422660c692033146c12fc

(95)

on September 26, 2010
at 08:28 PM

I like your way of thinking!!!!!

F9e59a62c46422660c692033146c12fc

(95)

on September 26, 2010
at 08:30 PM

I like your way of thinking.... I think part of the situation is to 'repair' or 'restore' the damage done over the years while applying your logic, which i totally agree with!!!! Thanks

5be844214037850c304c1e6a05dc5277

on September 24, 2010
at 12:23 AM

As a follow up I just wanted to say I think the field of nutrition science is still very immature, and it just seems to me that protein+carbs and no fat post-workout is potentially a fair deviation from our evolutionary metabolic milieu! As a male one thing I can be sure of is for millennia my ancestors hunted animals (exercise) and afterwards consumed copius amounts of protein+fat (post workout meal) with carbs completely optional! This is one area where I just feel Paleo reasoning trumps some random metabolic study which can never take into account the big picture of what is optimum health!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 01, 2011
at 06:36 PM

Kudos to both of you! Looking through past threads to confirm what I have been seeing in myself. Thanks!

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