1

votes

Must low histamine Paleo be low protein? (And, what protein sources are best?)

Commented on January 16, 2017
Created August 15, 2013 at 7:11 PM

For anyone here who is histamine sensitive, what types of protein do you eat, and how much (g/day)?

I'm soo confused by the conflicting lists of permitted foods, and by trying to incorporate it into a paleo diet framework.

Many thanks,

Mike

03c51ca0a5e7b50eba8ef1d1fb95829a

(0)

on January 16, 2017
at 01:56 PM

I eat hemp protein and it works great :) 

15g of hemp powder contains:

Vitamin B1 0.3mg (25%*)
Vitamin B1 0.2mg (12%*)
Omega-3 0.1g (6%*)
Omega-6 0.8g (4%*)
Iron 2.7mg (34%*)
Magnesium 160mg (40%*)

 

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 18, 2013
at 09:48 PM

Thanks CaveMan_Mike...good stuff.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 18, 2013
at 02:50 AM

Omg! That's awesome! Very much validates some of my experiences!

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 18, 2013
at 02:44 AM

Thank you so much! I'm looking at this now!

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:19 PM

thanks for the yolk info. I'll keep that on my radar. And now that you mention it, I do recall references to undercooked egg whites being a problem. I'm going to do a failsafe elimination (as described in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Fed-Fully-Revised-Updated-ebook/dp/B004T6DIBO/ref=sr_1_1_title_1_kin?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1376752680&sr=1-1 ) I'm not 100% sure my issue is narrowly histamines, vs. more broadly amines.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:16 PM

good tip, thx! BTW, I've really grown to rely on evernote when researching topics. It's great to be able to select text, pages, links and put them in a sharable notebook!

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 04:17 AM

this site http://www.histamineintolerance.org.uk/about/the-food-diary/the-food-list has this to say about egg whites "it is a histamine liberator only when in its raw state"

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 04:16 AM

& with regards to egg Yolks, this 'could' be problematic as well for some people, due to the choline content. If you look at some of the blurb on undermethylation/histadelia(high histamine) it suggests avoiding foods containing choline.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:51 AM

this site http://www.histamineintolerance.org.uk/about/the-food-diary/the-food-list says this about egg whites "it is a histamine liberator only when in its raw state"

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:47 AM

& with regards to egg Yolks, this 'could' be problematic as well for some people, due to the choline content. If you look at some of the blurb on histadelia (high histamine) it suggests avoiding foods containing choline.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:46 AM

thx Mike, on delving a bit deeper, egg whites seem to be classed as a food with "suggested histamine-releasing capacities" all the info seems to come from this study http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/5/1185.full.pdf which also refers to this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16093574 . Not sure if egg whites definitely do have histamine-releasing capacities, it does not seem that this has actually been proven, the studies use the terms suggested & hypothetical (but worthy of further investigation).

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:43 AM

"the first few clippings in the notebook are hard to read (blue font/black background)"...if you click somewhere in the r/h box (not a link) & do a Ctrl'A' this will do a 'select all' text & the fonts will turn white & make it easy to read

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:33 AM

& with regards to egg Yolks, this 'could' be problematic as well for some people, due to the choline content. If you look at some of the blurb on histadelia (high histamine) it suggests avoiding foods containing choline.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:30 AM

thx Mike, on delving a bit deeper, egg whites seem to be classed as a food with "suggested histamine-releasing capacities" all the info seems to come from this study http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/5/1185.full.pdf which also refers to this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16093574 . Not sure if egg whites definitely do have histamine-releasing capacities, as the studies use the terms suggested & hypothetical.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 16, 2013
at 06:58 PM

BTW, someone here asked how I know it's histamine and not more generally amines. Actually I'm not positive, though sneezing / watery eyes and itching seem in indicate histamine (though not sure that that can also apply to amines). So, I'm getting up to speed on amines on http://fedup.com.au/ . Their FAILSAFE diet eliminates all food additives and other natural food chemicals (amines/salyclates, etc). I did their protocol last year but I'm not sure I did it correctly before discounting it and moving on. I may do another try.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 16, 2013
at 06:56 PM

the first few clippings in the notebook are hard to read (blue font/black background), but do browse through the other clippings. It's amazing how many body systems histamines can affect.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 16, 2013
at 06:55 PM

how long do you think it takes to rid your body of histamines? I've read that vitamin C can lower blood levels of histamine so I've started taking 2,000 mg / day for the last few days.

Dd1b220085ff251e08cad4f934ee683c

(75)

on August 16, 2013
at 04:23 PM

Thanks much! Anything to help with figuring out the histamine puzzle is welcome :) I've still got several weeks to go before the histamine is out of my system so I'm hopeful that some of my symptoms continue to lessen. The emotional craziness has already gotten better just from cutting out avocados.

Dd1b220085ff251e08cad4f934ee683c

(75)

on August 16, 2013
at 04:21 PM

I have read that as well Mike

Dd1b220085ff251e08cad4f934ee683c

(75)

on August 16, 2013
at 04:21 PM

I've found that the grass fed/finished beef doesn't have to be aged for it to taste great. I guess it's due to the grasses they eat, etc. You can ask the suppliers if they age their meats. They'll tell you.

Dd1b220085ff251e08cad4f934ee683c

(75)

on August 16, 2013
at 04:10 PM

Not all beef is aged - if you work with the supplier directly you can get it unaged and fresh/frozen as quickly as possible.

Dd1b220085ff251e08cad4f934ee683c

(75)

on August 16, 2013
at 04:09 PM

I'm using roasts and steaks. I was grinding my own meat but found that it did not sit well with me after a while. I am off dairy right now (Auto Immune protocol) and am not doing pork or chicken. I haven't found a good source for pastured, non-soy fed chicken yet. I was doing bison but couldn't tell if i was reacting to it or the beef so i stopped bison to see how i was doing with the beef

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 16, 2013
at 03:06 PM

I've read that egg whites are high in histamine, but egg yolks are ok.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 16, 2013
at 03:06 PM

The funny thing about beef is that all beef is aged (to make it palatable)

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 16, 2013
at 12:17 PM

Also interesting, during my diet elimination, my 24/year migraines reduced to 3/year. (I did make many other changes so I'm not 100% sure that's from histamines). However, many of my high histamine foods are also high in tyramine (e.g. cheese) which are know migraine triggers. (I also added magnesium)

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 16, 2013
at 12:15 PM

As to my reactions, it all started 3 years ago with an itchy skin rash the dermatologists couldn't identify. Eventually, I went on a strict elimination diet and got it to subside. Interestingly, my progressively worsening seasonal allergies (over 20 year period) got dramatically better when I reduced the high histamine food staples in my diet.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 16, 2013
at 03:42 AM

ccm should have read cmm (aka CaveMan_Mike)

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 16, 2013
at 01:55 AM

hi ccm, you say below "I was eating lots of slow cooked bbq pork and got a bad reaction after 3 or 4 days of that. In the past, I seem to react very badly to salmon". just interested in what the 'reaction' was...cos i'm trying to work out what to look for in a 'histamine type reaction'. i am currently looking into the whole histamine topic. i recently had a blood test that showed my blood histamine levels were above range & i posted a related Q here http://paleohacks.com/questions/205739/high-histamine-lab-result-advice-views-on-the-lab-treatment-recommendations-un

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 16, 2013
at 01:27 AM

hi ccm, you say below "I was eating lots of slow cooked bbq pork and got a bad reaction after 3 or 4 days of that. In the past, I seem to react very badly to salmon". just interested in what the 'reaction' was...cos i'm trying to work out what to look for in a 'histamine type reaction'. i am currently looking into the whole histamine topic, & i recently had a blood test that showed my blood histamine levels were above range

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 15, 2013
at 07:44 PM

@laura: do you drink milk? How 'bout chicken or pork? What seems to be the best for you?

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 15, 2013
at 07:43 PM

thanks for the reply. Are you using ground beef or steaks? I was using ground grass fed beef from trader joes (imported from australia). Being so many variables, I'm not sure I can form a conclusion. What I do know is while on vacation last week in the south (usa), I was eating lots of slow cooked bbq pork and got a bad reaction afer 3 or 4 days of that. In the past, I seem to react very badly to salmon.

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5 Answers

best answer

1
9aa4046713d6cd5dbf3220d913a178a0

(159)

on August 17, 2013
at 11:57 PM

There is a site that did a poll with over 800 histamine intolerant patients, to see which foods tend to be well tolerated. Very valuable info. Here is the link

Based on the ratings, it seems potatoes are very well tolerated. Perhaps that can be used as a source of protein? 2.5 pounds of potatoes gives you 20 grams protein, and yields only 780 calories. Unlike most plant foods, potatoes are a "complete protein", providing a good balance of all the essential amino acids.

Bear in mind, the protein requirements for an adult male is roughly 50 grams. So 1000 calories from potatoes gives you half your protein intake, with minimal histamine.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 18, 2013
at 02:44 AM

Thank you so much! I'm looking at this now!

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 18, 2013
at 02:50 AM

Omg! That's awesome! Very much validates some of my experiences!

1
Dd1b220085ff251e08cad4f934ee683c

on August 15, 2013
at 07:34 PM

I'm doing a low histamine diet and experimenting with meat. I'm eating grass fed/finished beef and work with the farm to get it as fresh as possible as to minimize histamine formation. I try to cook it as quick as possible and then freeze any I'm not eating right away. I currently am eating about 7.5 oz a day. So far it seems to be going ok but only time will tell.

Before I definitely had problems with slow cooked meats and with not handling/cooking it properly. This new process seems to be much better.

Dd1b220085ff251e08cad4f934ee683c

(75)

on August 16, 2013
at 04:10 PM

Not all beef is aged - if you work with the supplier directly you can get it unaged and fresh/frozen as quickly as possible.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 15, 2013
at 07:44 PM

@laura: do you drink milk? How 'bout chicken or pork? What seems to be the best for you?

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 15, 2013
at 07:43 PM

thanks for the reply. Are you using ground beef or steaks? I was using ground grass fed beef from trader joes (imported from australia). Being so many variables, I'm not sure I can form a conclusion. What I do know is while on vacation last week in the south (usa), I was eating lots of slow cooked bbq pork and got a bad reaction afer 3 or 4 days of that. In the past, I seem to react very badly to salmon.

Dd1b220085ff251e08cad4f934ee683c

(75)

on August 16, 2013
at 04:09 PM

I'm using roasts and steaks. I was grinding my own meat but found that it did not sit well with me after a while. I am off dairy right now (Auto Immune protocol) and am not doing pork or chicken. I haven't found a good source for pastured, non-soy fed chicken yet. I was doing bison but couldn't tell if i was reacting to it or the beef so i stopped bison to see how i was doing with the beef

0
7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

on August 16, 2013
at 12:00 PM

I've done an insane amount of research into histamines.

I've placed all my web clippings and findings in the public evernote notebook:

https://www.evernote.com/pub/pcguys/histamines

Despite all of this, it's still unclear as to whether beef (because it's intentionally aged) is actually worse than chicken (without the skin).

Mike

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:43 AM

"the first few clippings in the notebook are hard to read (blue font/black background)"...if you click somewhere in the r/h box (not a link) & do a Ctrl'A' this will do a 'select all' text & the fonts will turn white & make it easy to read

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 16, 2013
at 06:56 PM

the first few clippings in the notebook are hard to read (blue font/black background), but do browse through the other clippings. It's amazing how many body systems histamines can affect.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:16 PM

good tip, thx! BTW, I've really grown to rely on evernote when researching topics. It's great to be able to select text, pages, links and put them in a sharable notebook!

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 16, 2013
at 06:58 PM

BTW, someone here asked how I know it's histamine and not more generally amines. Actually I'm not positive, though sneezing / watery eyes and itching seem in indicate histamine (though not sure that that can also apply to amines). So, I'm getting up to speed on amines on http://fedup.com.au/ . Their FAILSAFE diet eliminates all food additives and other natural food chemicals (amines/salyclates, etc). I did their protocol last year but I'm not sure I did it correctly before discounting it and moving on. I may do another try.

Dd1b220085ff251e08cad4f934ee683c

(75)

on August 16, 2013
at 04:23 PM

Thanks much! Anything to help with figuring out the histamine puzzle is welcome :) I've still got several weeks to go before the histamine is out of my system so I'm hopeful that some of my symptoms continue to lessen. The emotional craziness has already gotten better just from cutting out avocados.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 16, 2013
at 06:55 PM

how long do you think it takes to rid your body of histamines? I've read that vitamin C can lower blood levels of histamine so I've started taking 2,000 mg / day for the last few days.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 18, 2013
at 09:48 PM

Thanks CaveMan_Mike...good stuff.

0
543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 16, 2013
at 01:46 AM

currently looking in to this a bit myself,

one of the 'treatments' i have read about to reduce histamine is to supplement with Methionine & avoid foods that are high in Histidine (a precursor for histamine).
Methionine & Histidine are both amino acids, the problem is, all foods that are high in methionine seem to be high in histidine as well.
The best 'food' i have found so far where methionine outweighs histidine by a reasonable amount is egg whites (or egg white protein powder)...(if anyone knows of others, please comment, thx).

as mentioned in my comment above, i recently had a blood test that showed my blood histamine levels were above range. other things to google which could be of relevance to you, are undermethylation & histadelia (high histamine).

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 04:17 AM

this site http://www.histamineintolerance.org.uk/about/the-food-diary/the-food-list has this to say about egg whites "it is a histamine liberator only when in its raw state"

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:47 AM

& with regards to egg Yolks, this 'could' be problematic as well for some people, due to the choline content. If you look at some of the blurb on histadelia (high histamine) it suggests avoiding foods containing choline.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:51 AM

this site http://www.histamineintolerance.org.uk/about/the-food-diary/the-food-list says this about egg whites "it is a histamine liberator only when in its raw state"

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:30 AM

thx Mike, on delving a bit deeper, egg whites seem to be classed as a food with "suggested histamine-releasing capacities" all the info seems to come from this study http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/5/1185.full.pdf which also refers to this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16093574 . Not sure if egg whites definitely do have histamine-releasing capacities, as the studies use the terms suggested & hypothetical.

Dd1b220085ff251e08cad4f934ee683c

(75)

on August 16, 2013
at 04:21 PM

I have read that as well Mike

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 16, 2013
at 03:06 PM

I've read that egg whites are high in histamine, but egg yolks are ok.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 04:16 AM

& with regards to egg Yolks, this 'could' be problematic as well for some people, due to the choline content. If you look at some of the blurb on undermethylation/histadelia(high histamine) it suggests avoiding foods containing choline.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:33 AM

& with regards to egg Yolks, this 'could' be problematic as well for some people, due to the choline content. If you look at some of the blurb on histadelia (high histamine) it suggests avoiding foods containing choline.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:46 AM

thx Mike, on delving a bit deeper, egg whites seem to be classed as a food with "suggested histamine-releasing capacities" all the info seems to come from this study http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/5/1185.full.pdf which also refers to this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16093574 . Not sure if egg whites definitely do have histamine-releasing capacities, it does not seem that this has actually been proven, the studies use the terms suggested & hypothetical (but worthy of further investigation).

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 17, 2013
at 03:19 PM

thanks for the yolk info. I'll keep that on my radar. And now that you mention it, I do recall references to undercooked egg whites being a problem. I'm going to do a failsafe elimination (as described in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Fed-Fully-Revised-Updated-ebook/dp/B004T6DIBO/ref=sr_1_1_title_1_kin?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1376752680&sr=1-1 ) I'm not 100% sure my issue is narrowly histamines, vs. more broadly amines.

0
A5127d60bca783084f191f38ffa357a6

on August 16, 2013
at 01:01 AM

Yea man just google histamine foods, there are histamine high foods and liberator foods and foods that block histamine break down. I would try to get fresh beef if your beef is imported it gives time to form histamine

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on August 16, 2013
at 03:06 PM

The funny thing about beef is that all beef is aged (to make it palatable)

Dd1b220085ff251e08cad4f934ee683c

(75)

on August 16, 2013
at 04:21 PM

I've found that the grass fed/finished beef doesn't have to be aged for it to taste great. I guess it's due to the grasses they eat, etc. You can ask the suppliers if they age their meats. They'll tell you.

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