3

votes

Kruse vs. Rosedale

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 25, 2012 at 7:48 PM

Anyone have thoughts about Dr. Rosedale's recent appearance on Jimmy Moore's podcast?

He essentially distinguishes his leptin reset plan from Dr. Kruse's by recommending a much lower amount of protein, saying that the amount of protein recommended by Dr. Kruse is excessive and possibly unhealthy.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on December 21, 2012
at 01:57 AM

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=calorie-restriction-fails-lenghten-lifespan-primates The truth is beginning to come out and it looks like Ron has some explaining to do.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on May 02, 2012
at 01:44 AM

Kruse is more popular right now because is more out there with new stuff. Rosedale hasn't updated his book or website in awhile. I am sure that many who have done well on the Kruse program would have also done well on Rosedale.

07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on February 28, 2012
at 03:36 AM

More like "too much" said.

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on February 28, 2012
at 12:27 AM

That's very interesting. I might have to study it a bit!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 04, 2012
at 01:32 AM

@JustMike, um ... 9 oz of cooked chuck pot roast is rated as having 85g of protein. They under-estimate my fat intake because I didn't find an "eat the fat" measurement, but I frequently eat 8-10 oz plus I pick up about 8g of protein in my yogurt. I don't see the problem here.

23f79c5241be763ac583fc68d58ee02c

(250)

on February 04, 2012
at 12:24 AM

Sorry, bad with pounds...that's 1lb not 2. Still...

23f79c5241be763ac583fc68d58ee02c

(250)

on February 04, 2012
at 12:24 AM

"1g per pound of lean mass, and even as an average sized woman that puts my protein guideline at 100g or a little more (and that's less than 4 ounces of protein.) " -- You are confusing meat with protein. To get around 100gm of protein you have to eat 2lbs of boiled, skinless, boneless chicken breast.

C00e493393828df34be65ddc25456c7c

(610)

on January 26, 2012
at 03:55 AM

Okay, I'm shocked at the amount - you appear to be correct after I did search

C00e493393828df34be65ddc25456c7c

(610)

on January 26, 2012
at 03:51 AM

No way it's .75g per kilo of lean body mass it must be all body weight. If it was per pound I would believe it.

C00e493393828df34be65ddc25456c7c

(610)

on January 26, 2012
at 03:49 AM

I sure it's not .75g per kilo of weight or if it's in pounds .75g per pound of lean body mass.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on January 26, 2012
at 03:31 AM

That wasn't the intention. He just reminds me of him. Especially the smile.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on January 26, 2012
at 01:25 AM

I'm pretty sure you just seriously insulted Walter.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on January 26, 2012
at 12:38 AM

it's .75 per kilo of LEAN BODY MASS, not weight!!!!!!! The way to calculate lean body mass is in his book, and also in earlier editions of Drs. Eades book and on the Zone website.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on January 26, 2012
at 12:36 AM

nah, this guy is much older

A1081af52b61372dbb3ed572d88968f4

(425)

on January 26, 2012
at 12:25 AM

I love it. My favorite show. Although I would suggest the similarity may be more in spirit than form. Walter is the smartest guy in the room, often eccentric and provocative, but most of the time right in the end ;-).

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 25, 2012
at 11:06 PM

@Efaitch, yes if you are tiny (which means I am jealous :-)) you'd figure out a good daily amount and, I assume, have at least half to 2/3 at that morning first-meal for leptin reset.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on January 25, 2012
at 10:50 PM

Without the severe wrinkles and more of a glow. I think they have flashback in the show of him younger which looks more like him.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 25, 2012
at 10:25 PM

Sorry, I don't see it. They don't look that much alike and Bishop looks older and less healthy.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on January 25, 2012
at 09:53 PM

He is the best character in the show btw. I'm on season 2. I'm not that familiar with krause's leptin theory yet.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on January 25, 2012
at 09:35 PM

@mgood66 If I followed those guidelines for protein, I'd have to eat less than the (Kruse) recommended protein in a whole day...

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 25, 2012
at 08:31 PM

Also, while the recent research from George Bray was not a good comparison between LC and LF, it did suggest that folks who ate less protein lost more lean body mass when they lost weight. Not a good thing!

6b1b839cf2b0335717a8a1b33674e248

(144)

on January 25, 2012
at 08:12 PM

If I understood him correctly, Rosedale recommends .75 grams of protein per kilo of bodyweight. For 160 lb individual, that would be 55 grams of protein for the entire day. He said that the body can only process a "small" amount of protein in one meal. That's a concept I thought had been debunked.

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7 Answers

9
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on January 25, 2012
at 09:45 PM

Rosedale's thing on protein is that he doesn't want to trigger growth. This is based on research on the MTOR pathway. Protein over 20g at a meal supposedly triggers this pathway, as does carbohydrates. The researchers made a worms live longer by mutation, making MTOR and insulin not work as well on the cell; Rosedale and other suggest we can do the same with diet. Sounds good in theory, but in practice it makes me hungry.

And complicating matters is that I think Jimmy was asking Rosedale about Dr. Kruse's leptin reset protocol, but he seemed to be making the assumption that Dr. Kruse means for people to eat a big pile of protein for breakfast all the time, despite the word 'reset' implying there will be some point where you will be 'set' and thus able to eat more normally.

8
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 25, 2012
at 07:58 PM

Dr Kruse suggests 50-75g of protein at breakfast and then suggests following primal or paleo as defined by Mark Sisson or Robb Wolf.

How could that be excessive? The general guideline is about 1g per pound of lean mass, and even as an average sized woman that puts my protein guideline at 100g or a little more (and that's less than 4 ounces of protein.) He also gives practical and clear guidance based on how your react to that initial meal.

I haven't read Dr Rosedale's output but if he disagrees with Kruse, Sisson and Wolf I'm less likely to because I find the other 3 approaches sensible and well thought out.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 25, 2012
at 11:06 PM

@Efaitch, yes if you are tiny (which means I am jealous :-)) you'd figure out a good daily amount and, I assume, have at least half to 2/3 at that morning first-meal for leptin reset.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on January 26, 2012
at 12:38 AM

it's .75 per kilo of LEAN BODY MASS, not weight!!!!!!! The way to calculate lean body mass is in his book, and also in earlier editions of Drs. Eades book and on the Zone website.

C00e493393828df34be65ddc25456c7c

(610)

on January 26, 2012
at 03:51 AM

No way it's .75g per kilo of lean body mass it must be all body weight. If it was per pound I would believe it.

C00e493393828df34be65ddc25456c7c

(610)

on January 26, 2012
at 03:55 AM

Okay, I'm shocked at the amount - you appear to be correct after I did search

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on January 25, 2012
at 09:35 PM

@mgood66 If I followed those guidelines for protein, I'd have to eat less than the (Kruse) recommended protein in a whole day...

6b1b839cf2b0335717a8a1b33674e248

(144)

on January 25, 2012
at 08:12 PM

If I understood him correctly, Rosedale recommends .75 grams of protein per kilo of bodyweight. For 160 lb individual, that would be 55 grams of protein for the entire day. He said that the body can only process a "small" amount of protein in one meal. That's a concept I thought had been debunked.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 25, 2012
at 08:31 PM

Also, while the recent research from George Bray was not a good comparison between LC and LF, it did suggest that folks who ate less protein lost more lean body mass when they lost weight. Not a good thing!

C00e493393828df34be65ddc25456c7c

(610)

on January 26, 2012
at 03:49 AM

I sure it's not .75g per kilo of weight or if it's in pounds .75g per pound of lean body mass.

23f79c5241be763ac583fc68d58ee02c

(250)

on February 04, 2012
at 12:24 AM

"1g per pound of lean mass, and even as an average sized woman that puts my protein guideline at 100g or a little more (and that's less than 4 ounces of protein.) " -- You are confusing meat with protein. To get around 100gm of protein you have to eat 2lbs of boiled, skinless, boneless chicken breast.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 04, 2012
at 01:32 AM

@JustMike, um ... 9 oz of cooked chuck pot roast is rated as having 85g of protein. They under-estimate my fat intake because I didn't find an "eat the fat" measurement, but I frequently eat 8-10 oz plus I pick up about 8g of protein in my yogurt. I don't see the problem here.

23f79c5241be763ac583fc68d58ee02c

(250)

on February 04, 2012
at 12:24 AM

Sorry, bad with pounds...that's 1lb not 2. Still...

6
E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on February 27, 2012
at 11:17 PM

I listened to that show because I sent Jimmy in a question about we always hear about leptin reset and fixing leptin, and I had just got my leptin and rT3 labs and they were very low. Great news, but now what?

Rosedale said good, but diet doesn't change. It should be low carb, moderate protein, high fat, even when fixed.

Made sense to me. I made some adjustments since, plus a few more after the Sisson show a week or two later, and lost 10 lb so far.

Last year when Kruse's leptin reset went viral, I was reading it from the beginning and gave it a shot, not knowing if I needed it or not. Nothing much happened except I gained 10 lb. I didn't get labs until 2 months later (I have past history of high rT3, but it's been low since 2009) and the numbers showed that I was trying to fix something that wasn't broken.

I'm not sure how to explain the popularity of Kruse's leptin reset if Rosedale is right. This came up on Jimmy's forum and I think Dr Rosedale popped in. I think we settled on sometimes a new approach is just better than the old one.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on May 02, 2012
at 01:44 AM

Kruse is more popular right now because is more out there with new stuff. Rosedale hasn't updated his book or website in awhile. I am sure that many who have done well on the Kruse program would have also done well on Rosedale.

6
C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on January 25, 2012
at 09:49 PM

Is it just me or does Kruse looks like Walter Bishop from Fringe?

http://files.niccolofavari.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/walter-bishop.jpg

Although it should be Leptin though.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on January 26, 2012
at 01:25 AM

I'm pretty sure you just seriously insulted Walter.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on January 26, 2012
at 03:31 AM

That wasn't the intention. He just reminds me of him. Especially the smile.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on January 26, 2012
at 12:36 AM

nah, this guy is much older

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on January 25, 2012
at 09:53 PM

He is the best character in the show btw. I'm on season 2. I'm not that familiar with krause's leptin theory yet.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 25, 2012
at 10:25 PM

Sorry, I don't see it. They don't look that much alike and Bishop looks older and less healthy.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on January 25, 2012
at 10:50 PM

Without the severe wrinkles and more of a glow. I think they have flashback in the show of him younger which looks more like him.

A1081af52b61372dbb3ed572d88968f4

(425)

on January 26, 2012
at 12:25 AM

I love it. My favorite show. Although I would suggest the similarity may be more in spirit than form. Walter is the smartest guy in the room, often eccentric and provocative, but most of the time right in the end ;-).

3
Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 28, 2012
at 12:18 AM

07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on February 28, 2012
at 03:36 AM

More like "too much" said.

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on February 28, 2012
at 12:27 AM

That's very interesting. I might have to study it a bit!

2
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on January 26, 2012
at 12:41 AM

The reason Dr. Kruse recommends high protein for breakfast is to stave off hunger later in the day and until lunch. For most people this is 50 grams. He and Rosedale both agree that eating things that mess with leptin is NOT GOOD. Rosedale feels it is OK to snack on his plan if the snacks are decent. That is, no carbs, low protein. Rosedale is a fan of a handful of nuts for a snack. There is a huge discussion between the two of them here oh PH, I'll go digging.....

0
17c27982fc5c83461c3934c488a7c5bd

on October 22, 2012
at 07:52 PM

I've done both Paleo and am currently on Rosedale. The difference that I am feeling is that my body was getting too acidic on Paleo, but seems to be evening out better and faster on Rosedale. I figure it's worth personally trying Rosedale for 3 weeks, if it works as well as it has the past week, I will be adopting this lifestyle full time. I should also mention that I have ulcerative colitits so that finding a diet that doesn't mess me up is really difficult to do. Sometimes it's about more than just losing weight!

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