2

votes

Hack my leptin reset protocol

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 11, 2011 at 3:31 PM

I'm not sure if I need to follow the leptin reset protocol, but I like experimenting with stuff, plus I never seem to get full, so that might be a leptin signaling issue.

Within 20 minutes of waking up, here is the pattern I've fallen into:

Pint of raw whole milk (30g protein) with scoop of Optimum Nutrition whey protein powder (28g).

Cup of whole milk yogurt (13g) with three Ts ground flax seed (5g), cinnamon, and honey.

That's a total of 76g of protein.

I have noticed that later in the day when I eat dinner (no lunch) I've felt full a couple of time, which is rare for me. I usually stop in order to be reasonable, but I'm the type who can eat until I'm sick. Otherwise after almost two weeks of this I haven't noticed many differences.

Ok, hack away, please!

62f89aa727cf3ce77c36651347cabc14

(884)

on October 12, 2011
at 06:08 PM

It doesn't, as that activity is more anabolic than cardiovascular. Your breakfast reads as milk sugar, insulinogenic protein, milk sugar, phytoestrogens, spice, and more sugar. Sure, there is some protein in there, but its not optimal for a leptin reset, which is highly mediated by insulin levels. I'm not a VLC hawk in all cases, but for a leptin reset, pretend you're obese and reread Quilt.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6

(5002)

on October 12, 2011
at 05:19 PM

Ice cream? That's not fair :) I do heavy compound lifts 4 times a week. Maybe that changes things.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on October 11, 2011
at 07:06 PM

With whey and milk sugar, I would suggest you test with a home glucometer to see what your breakfast is doing to your blood sugar. There are some that have excellent insulin secretion from pancreas and can do dairy but many can't. Test and find out for sure.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 11, 2011
at 06:02 PM

And when I said I thought what you were doing was not his protocol, it was also in reference to the amount of carbs at breakfast. But reading his rules again, it may qualify. I just think if you want to know the effect of his protocol, you should do it more strictly, otherwise you won't really know...

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 11, 2011
at 05:57 PM

I agree that he seems to have recommended whey, but then in the Leptin FAQS post he says: "13. Can I use whey as a protein source during the LR Protocol? Can you? ……sure…… but you should have asked should I? Answer is nope. Too insulinogenic and raises NPY. For the underweight LR you can do so without any restriction." I will say that reading Dr. Kruse is a bit like having an ADHD episode - it seems all over the place. I have to read over and over to connect the bits - but it is worth it.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on October 11, 2011
at 05:00 PM

Poo - I am just now reading your other comments. Now I think my answer doesn't really hit the mark of what you are getting at. Sorry.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6

(5002)

on October 11, 2011
at 05:00 PM

Korion: I've fallen into the pattern because it is so easy to do. I'll determine if I find this acceptable as a tradeoff once I've read everyone's responses. That's the idea, anyway.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6

(5002)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:58 PM

Good points (again, love this site). I suppose I'm not too worried since this is a ST experiment. I was unclear about not being full. That's the reason I started the LR protocol. Since starting it, I've felt more full while eating than before. So the milk seems to be working. I also can fast until dinner without a problem. But I just started, so these theoretical concerns are still valuable since my experience could change as I continue.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:54 PM

Didn't Kruse say whey is less-than optimal? Do you really like the stuff of do you just don't have time to cook meat/eggs?

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:43 PM

I would place the carbs some where besides breakfast. My breakfast is 4 eggs and two tbs butter. I am not following the protocol (and there are many ways to do so). However I do think this breakfast would work despite not meeting the 50g of protein...

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6

(5002)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:35 PM

Thanks, that's helpful. He says whey is a third option behind eggs and leftover meats. Elsewhere on this site he says he 'understands' raw milk but not dairy in general bc its insulinogenic. So, even though I'm pushing it, I fall within the boundaries of what Kruse offered. But Im clearer on that bc of your post, so thanks again.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6

(5002)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:27 PM

Yeah, good point, though I did just barely make the <50g of carbs that Kruse suggests, at 47g according to fitday.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:09 PM

I am just wondering how much sugar is in the milk. Might be better to get the protein with less sugar.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6

(5002)

on October 11, 2011
at 03:53 PM

Yeah, I'm lacto-paleo. I see no problem with well-sourced dairy since I seem to tolerate it. I love the way it tastes. And since I lift weights I like that it is 'designed' to grow a calf into a giant cow, which on some primordial level I believe will promote muscle growth :)

220994a1bcff1923ef0388192bdba8d4

on October 11, 2011
at 03:47 PM

that is a shit-ton of dairy dude...but if it isn't causing you problems, more power to you!

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5 Answers

9
0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:50 PM

Here are a few amateurish thoughts about this:

One of the reasons you may not be feeling full is that milk/whey causes huge insulin and IGF1 spikes. which is why it is so great for bodybuilding and being "anabolic". However, when your insulin levels drop as they should, that drop is said to cause a sensation of hunger as it causes your blood sugar to drop - in your case perhaps causing the lack of "fullness." This may be causing you to feel more hungry or even hypoglycemic during the day.

From what I understand, the protein in the morning is meant to cause long lasting satiety. If you are not experiencing this then perhaps milk/whey is not the best form of protein to be used for the "reset".

As an aside, here's what Mat Lalonde said on Superhuman Radio about milk and IGF1:

Milk, especially grass fed, has a lot of good things in it. THe one negative is the high IGF 1 - it is great for growth and repair, but it also increases aging. It also feeds cancer. People with high IGF 1 tend to die younger. Turns out that very quick fermentation completely destroys IGF 1 - cheese and yogurt. Make it full fat. Have cream and sour cream and butter. These have the good things without the IGF1.

Yes, you are right that the milk/whey will help with muscle growth, but as Mat Lalonde says - don't think you are doing this to promote longevity. This will age you more rapidly. It's a tradeoff.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6

(5002)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:58 PM

Good points (again, love this site). I suppose I'm not too worried since this is a ST experiment. I was unclear about not being full. That's the reason I started the LR protocol. Since starting it, I've felt more full while eating than before. So the milk seems to be working. I also can fast until dinner without a problem. But I just started, so these theoretical concerns are still valuable since my experience could change as I continue.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on October 11, 2011
at 05:00 PM

Poo - I am just now reading your other comments. Now I think my answer doesn't really hit the mark of what you are getting at. Sorry.

4
A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:26 PM

Assuming that you are following Dr. K's protocol (The Quilt), he recommends against whey for MOST people as it is (or can be) insulinolgenic. An insulin spike will spike leptin - which is antithetical to the reset. Milk is also insulinogenic. Do it if you want to, but I doubt it will establish leptin sensitivity.

He basically says little to no carbs at breakfast. Eat ~50g protein within 30 minutes of waking. Only 3 meals per day (2 is fine as well) with no snacking. No food after 7:30PM.

http://jackkruse.com/my-leptin-prescription/

I've been doing it for 5 days with eggs/bacon/meat and it totally shuts down my hunger for the day. I am not getting carb/sugar cravings in the afternoon. And I have no desire to snack. In fact, I have to force myself to eat, which is VERY unusual for me. Hopefully, this keeps up. Oh, and by the way 5# down in 5 days (probably a lot of water weight as I was eating badly and had put on 10 pounds).

I would say (I hope it's not too harsh) that you are not doing a leptin reset protocol at all - at least as defined by Dr. Kruse.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 11, 2011
at 05:57 PM

I agree that he seems to have recommended whey, but then in the Leptin FAQS post he says: "13. Can I use whey as a protein source during the LR Protocol? Can you? ……sure…… but you should have asked should I? Answer is nope. Too insulinogenic and raises NPY. For the underweight LR you can do so without any restriction." I will say that reading Dr. Kruse is a bit like having an ADHD episode - it seems all over the place. I have to read over and over to connect the bits - but it is worth it.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 11, 2011
at 06:02 PM

And when I said I thought what you were doing was not his protocol, it was also in reference to the amount of carbs at breakfast. But reading his rules again, it may qualify. I just think if you want to know the effect of his protocol, you should do it more strictly, otherwise you won't really know...

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6

(5002)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:35 PM

Thanks, that's helpful. He says whey is a third option behind eggs and leftover meats. Elsewhere on this site he says he 'understands' raw milk but not dairy in general bc its insulinogenic. So, even though I'm pushing it, I fall within the boundaries of what Kruse offered. But Im clearer on that bc of your post, so thanks again.

3
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:03 PM

You might do better with a lower carb source of protein.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:43 PM

I would place the carbs some where besides breakfast. My breakfast is 4 eggs and two tbs butter. I am not following the protocol (and there are many ways to do so). However I do think this breakfast would work despite not meeting the 50g of protein...

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6

(5002)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:27 PM

Yeah, good point, though I did just barely make the <50g of carbs that Kruse suggests, at 47g according to fitday.

2
62f89aa727cf3ce77c36651347cabc14

(884)

on October 12, 2011
at 03:05 AM

Ice cream for breakfast is not a leptin reset. Go VLC til supper, barring any vigorous activity requirements.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6

(5002)

on October 12, 2011
at 05:19 PM

Ice cream? That's not fair :) I do heavy compound lifts 4 times a week. Maybe that changes things.

62f89aa727cf3ce77c36651347cabc14

(884)

on October 12, 2011
at 06:08 PM

It doesn't, as that activity is more anabolic than cardiovascular. Your breakfast reads as milk sugar, insulinogenic protein, milk sugar, phytoestrogens, spice, and more sugar. Sure, there is some protein in there, but its not optimal for a leptin reset, which is highly mediated by insulin levels. I'm not a VLC hawk in all cases, but for a leptin reset, pretend you're obese and reread Quilt.

1
9cb1f345eb342eee51a8fc44ffe66184

on October 19, 2011
at 04:12 PM

I would bet a jar of Coconut Oil, that if you changed all that dairy to meat and kept carbs at 50g or less you would definitely see some changes.

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