6

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Gut Flora and ZC

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created June 30, 2011 at 1:14 AM

How does gut flora survive on a zero carb diet if one only eat meat and fat, no eggs or dairy, and doesn't take probiotics?

Ada8d6c9d083ce2d1e36133d388413dd

(106)

on October 02, 2011
at 11:42 AM

yeah, i am thinking about adding a few veggies back in very slowly to help rebuild gut flora. unfortunately in my case i think the zc diet "may" have done more harm than good. not sure yet.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on September 30, 2011
at 03:50 PM

Thanks for the question. I'm getting really loose stools on ZC at the moment. Almost pure water. I heard that is normal, but I start to find the diet damn boring already. Especially as I don't eat pork, chicken, butter, coffe, dark chocolate or bone broth yet.

7b11ed525ffa23bc7257684e27488a6a

(366)

on September 30, 2011
at 02:49 PM

I haven't read GAPS book yet, but should get it next week. Watching author on youtube made me think of that connection. here's more on lc and gut flora: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21389180?dopt=Abstract

Medium avatar

(39831)

on September 29, 2011
at 08:15 PM

1) Many hunter-gatherers (like the Hadza) eat more fiber than is ever encountered by a cereal-munching SADer. 2) How do dietary short chain fatty acids fuel colonocytes if they get absorbed before they reach the colon?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 29, 2011
at 07:23 PM

Yes, epic posts.

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on June 30, 2011
at 09:56 PM

Patrick, can you grow some perennial herbs in containers? They are quite hardy and easy to grow. I like the things at Horizon Herbs: http://www.horizonherbs.com/

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on June 30, 2011
at 09:55 PM

Deb, thanks for posting the link. A most interesting article! I've been eating my herbs and leaves without washing them and finding that helpful.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on June 30, 2011
at 07:56 PM

I'm sure you're right, but can you elaborate or cite?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on June 30, 2011
at 07:54 PM

Heh, I was just going to post this, but who better?

88905cfc5bb098ad3830671a1af373a8

(803)

on June 30, 2011
at 04:42 PM

he always advocates eating minimally washed vegetables - but conventional and even organic vegetables are probably unsuitable for this. What are those of us without a garden to do with this advice?

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 30, 2011
at 12:08 PM

i don't know the answer but i'll mention that for over three months I ate no plant matter. My digestion was fine and I had regular bowel movements the whole time. I would mention that before i started the experiment I had already been paleo for one year and was in pretty good health. So, I would think that maybe consuming only animal products would not overly hurt the state of your gut flora. Then again, my experiment was only about 3.5 months long.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on June 30, 2011
at 01:26 AM

You beat me to it. I was busy disagreeing with you regarding your HG answer :-)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on June 30, 2011
at 01:25 AM

You beat me to it :-)

  • Ada8d6c9d083ce2d1e36133d388413dd

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7 Answers

5
7b11ed525ffa23bc7257684e27488a6a

(366)

on September 29, 2011
at 06:34 PM

That would depend on the particulars of the zc diet and perhaps other individual factors. If it is the modern variety, the kind that Stefansson ate at the Bellevue study (1), then it can cause some serious die off and mircrobial constituent changes (2).

  1. http://www.jbc.org/content/87/3/651.full.pdf
  2. http://www.jstor.org/pss/30081508

The problem is this: Stefansson goes and lives with native peoples of the Arctic.?? He eats and lives by their ways and survives.?? He comes back and embarks on an eating plan for Bellevue that does not represent the native diet, so far as I recall.?? It's only what he thinks is important from the traditional diet (ie. all meat), not the way in which it was eaten.?? No raw or stinky fish, fermented oil or sorrel was eaten at Bellevue to the best of my knowledge.?? He stays in good health for a year.?? But what does that tell us??? Not much really, as it is not really any sort of traditional HG diet eaten for a lifetime.?? Look at what happened to the gut flora of these men after just a few days. It would be helpful to know if traditional carnivorous peoples had diminished microflora numbers. It seems unlikely considering their liberal ingestion of microbial foods.

What kind of zc diet are most people in our age eating? It is one like Stefansson's; or worse, it is all muscle meat. It downplays organs, raw meats, fermented foods and the importance of some plant foods in the diet. The traditional HG diets that were carnivorous appear to play up organs, raw foods and fermented foods. They went to great pains to preserve what plant foods they had available to them. IOW, they did not fear a few carbs as many people desperate to lose weight do today.

If we look at the new fad of some people encouraging zc pregnancies, what might that mean to the health of offspring, who are dependent upon their mother's microflora in the first weeks of life? If gut dysbiosis is indeed implicated in neurological problems, and if zc promotes the destruction of beneficial microbes, then this is a potentially dangerous experiment if not approached from a traditional health perspective. A healthy diet needs to carry one from birth to healthy reproduction at the very least.

5
E3267155f6962f293583fc6a0b98793e

(1085)

on June 30, 2011
at 01:46 AM

Dr. Art Ayers author of the blog "Cooling Inflammation" has a new blog post writing about gut flora and soluble fiber 29 June 2011. He states that Soluble Fiber in Meat is also Polysaccharide

88905cfc5bb098ad3830671a1af373a8

(803)

on June 30, 2011
at 04:42 PM

he always advocates eating minimally washed vegetables - but conventional and even organic vegetables are probably unsuitable for this. What are those of us without a garden to do with this advice?

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on June 30, 2011
at 09:55 PM

Deb, thanks for posting the link. A most interesting article! I've been eating my herbs and leaves without washing them and finding that helpful.

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on June 30, 2011
at 09:56 PM

Patrick, can you grow some perennial herbs in containers? They are quite hardy and easy to grow. I like the things at Horizon Herbs: http://www.horizonherbs.com/

4
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 30, 2011
at 01:17 AM

you may want to read a series of posts at "Hyperlipid" labeled "Fiaf"

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on June 30, 2011
at 01:26 AM

You beat me to it. I was busy disagreeing with you regarding your HG answer :-)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on June 30, 2011
at 01:25 AM

You beat me to it :-)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 29, 2011
at 07:23 PM

Yes, epic posts.

3
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on June 30, 2011
at 07:54 PM

Heh, I was just going to post this, but who better?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on September 29, 2011
at 08:15 PM

1) Many hunter-gatherers (like the Hadza) eat more fiber than is ever encountered by a cereal-munching SADer. 2) How do dietary short chain fatty acids fuel colonocytes if they get absorbed before they reach the colon?

1
Ada8d6c9d083ce2d1e36133d388413dd

(106)

on September 30, 2011
at 11:28 AM

Satya - so true on ZC pregnancies. The more I read the more I realize how important gut flora is and that starts with the mother. Gut and Psychology Syndrome is a fascinating book.

The latest disturbing thing I heard on a podcast is that candida and other fungi can supposedly live on ketones.

7b11ed525ffa23bc7257684e27488a6a

(366)

on September 30, 2011
at 02:49 PM

I haven't read GAPS book yet, but should get it next week. Watching author on youtube made me think of that connection. here's more on lc and gut flora: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21389180?dopt=Abstract

Ada8d6c9d083ce2d1e36133d388413dd

(106)

on October 02, 2011
at 11:42 AM

yeah, i am thinking about adding a few veggies back in very slowly to help rebuild gut flora. unfortunately in my case i think the zc diet "may" have done more harm than good. not sure yet.

1
8b3e94f31ec56a5d9f37272c33874afe

on June 30, 2011
at 01:59 AM

Check out Doug Kauffman's books. His website is www.knowthecause.com

1
66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on June 30, 2011
at 01:55 AM

Gut flora are not specific to carbs and certainly do not die out if carb intake it minimal or none.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on June 30, 2011
at 07:56 PM

I'm sure you're right, but can you elaborate or cite?

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