Ive been wondering about this for quite a long time, but always didnt know how to really describe this dilemma im feeling, and, well , dont know completely how to now, but ill give it a try, hope youll all underatand my question:
Its like this:
I am wondering if ( from a primal/ paleo, or just health- perspective) an in advance planned, "linear" ( in terms of repeting the same basic movement pattern on its own over and over again, like its with squats for example.) is beneficial over a kind of training ( or at least a part of, i know theyre doing weightlifitng as well) that guys like Ido Portal or Angelo de la Cruz ( both seen on youtube) are doing, which is more of a movement training, they are flipping, jumping, also doing bodyweight stuff like pushups, handstands, rope climbs, kicks etc. , (just look it up, youll see what i mean) , which appears to me like a total different kind of training.
Maybe some of you guys will tell me to combine bith, but i actually find this really difficult.
The strength training im talking about yet still includes basic, functional compound movements like squats, deadlifts, but also weighted pullups ir dips...
Now im unsure how to deal with the whole thing. im actually doing strength ( weight) training 3x a week, but it seems to me like im missing something.
Those , yeah , almost "tricks" seems so primal to me, but i dont know anything about it itself, and it seems to be way more risky in terms of injuries as well.
It just seems like they are doing this all day long, without a real warmup, but my problem is that i dont have all day long free, an have to compress my training/ movement/sports whatever into a certain time slot, in which this conventional strength training just seems to match better how i find.
And how could anyone combine those 2 "types" of training. I mean youre sore from your weighted strength training, and then youre supposed to move like an ape ? :D
Also i dont know how you would even deal with recovery time of each training, like i said, find this very very difficult, maybe someone could enlighten me somehow.
I also like the idea that those guys can do this stuff mostly without a real warmup and are "always hot", and im also wondering as well if anybody could achieve this.
So, i know, maybe a bit messy and complicated question, but i hope itll do its job.
So now your turn, sport-fans! Thank you in advance!
asked byJonas_2 (5)
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on November 18, 2013
at 09:15 PM
Sorry to fall into your trap here, but I am going to say combining them would be optimal, but probably much differently than you are thinking in your head about it. Also keep in mind that the 2 people you are talking about above most likely include weight training into there workouts. Case and point, check out the squats and snatches: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzcxusvx9tg. By the way, I met Angelo and he is a super cool guy. Also, if you look at some of the videos from people who have trained with Ido, you will see that while they definitely incorporate a large amount of gymnastic body weight work, they still are doing some weightlifting (deadlifts, Oly lifting, etc.). Given, I don't have intimate knowledge of their workout philosophy, I am just going of YouTube :-)
Now, if you are talking strictly about bodybuilding training, I would say ditch it. May plan is along the following lines: body weight stuff is always my warm-up. Squats, lunges, animal crawls, handstands, other gymnastic stuff, etc. You don't' have to use huge volumes with this stuff, just do about 10-15 mins of it before you got hit the weights. Weight training for me includes usually 3-6 reps/3 sets heavy exercises, but always complex movements (squats, deadlifts, weighted push-ups, lunges, standing shoulder press, snatch, clean, push jerk, weighted chin-ups, one-arm push-ups, bent over rows, step-ups, one leg squats, etc). 2-3 weight training exercises max per gym session, and followed by a 5-10 min high paced circuit (metcon if you will), and this could include sprint interval training with animal crawls even. I am in and out of the gym in 45min, including my 15 min body weight warm-up. 3 times/week at the gym.
Now, whether the above is something you want to do is really dependent on your goals. Do you want to look like a bodybuilder or do you want to look lean, muscular, with an overall capacity for a wide range of physical activities? Not to mention the health benefits of the later option?
With the above routine, I am 5 foot 8 inches, 156lbs at 10% bodyfat. Can deadlift 370 lbs, squat 350lbs, a chin-up with 90lbs hanging on my waist, 5 one-arm push-ups on each arm, power clean 175lbs, power snatch 135lbs, do a box jump to about mid chest height, perform a decent handstand, muscle-up (ring and bar), animal crawl, etc, etc.
So, I hate to say it, but it is very possible to combine them depending on your goals. However, you really need to decide what your goals are, and what type of exercise you find most enjoyable.
Oh ya, and the fact that they seem to always be warm, this may or may not be true. My answer to why most people need to warm-up up is due to our modern lifestyle. If we were walking and moving around most of the day, or maybe resting in the default full squat position, the need to warm-up would probably be much reduced. For the above guys, I can imagine that a lot of there days consist of much more movement than most of us, and proper movement for that matter.
Anyway, hope it helps.
on November 21, 2013
at 11:49 PM
My reply to Jonas 2's question:
Regarding my bodyweight warm-up stuff, it is very much a mobility warm up. Full active range of motion movements (not static stretching or trigger point stuff which can diminish output during training). Obviously I start with simple stuff and move to more demanding motions. (ie. leg swings might be the first exercise and then progress through full range squats, lunges, wall squats, animal crawls, etc.
With regards to improvement in hand balancing and similar skills, don't think that you could improve on the balance stuff at the level of failure, you would be way to tired to perform it correct. If your goal is simply to improve you balance in the handstand for instance, being fatigued when you try to do it will not be the best bet. Try the skill when you are fresh, and do not totally exhaust yourself. For instance, if you want to improve your power (ie. jumping height), the way to do so is not via jumps until failure, it is training at max power output which occurs in your first few jumps before you are fatigued (different energy systems at play). So, my long answer to your question is, no I do not do my bodyweight work to failure, as I said I use it as a warm-up (a mobility warm-up at that). Usually 1 set of each exercise to about 10-15 reps max.
Now, my goal is not to be at the high end of endurance activity, so I have no desire to be able to perform 100+ bodyweight squats in a row. When is that ever going to be required in real life other than if you are a crossfit competitor. So, for me, sub-fatiguing bodyweight exercises as warm-up fit my purposes just fine. Although, in the summer, I will do much more bodyweight/sprinting stuff outside at a park or something just to get some sunshine, but this is at the cost of reduced weight training.
That being said, after my weight workout, I sometimes will throw in a fast "metcon" style circuit which is where I utilize more bodywieght style stuff closer to full fatigue.
Again, this is just what I find works well for me and is enjoyable. Everyone needs to find their own balance that fits their individual goals.