2

votes

Do fat people frustrate you?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created April 30, 2012 at 3:40 PM

This is a community that values health, fitness, and proper nutrition. This site, along with a multitude of others, provides science-based information that helps people lose weight and live healthier lives through proper diet and exercise. This information is widely available and democratized - anyone can ask any question. Proper nutritional information is available to anyone that wants it.

That being said, we all have unhealthy friends and family members that simply wont change. We see grossly overweight people every day. Many of them know what they need to do and just don't do it. And if information is widely available and people don't seek it out when they obviously have health issues, what should we think of that?

I'm not a guy with a six pack and other huge vanity muscles, but I try to keep somewhat in shape for health reasons such as lower blood pressure and better cardiovascular fitness. I know there's a slippery slope with regards to what constitutes "fat" given different body types. But there have got to be very few examples of severe obesity that are the result of being "big-boned."

Economic studies have shown that fat people make less money than their skinner coworkers, and that the salary gap corresponds to the additional cost of their employer's health insurance premiums - is that really so wrong? If I am making a hiring decision, why shouldn't I discriminate (all else being equal) in favor of a thinner person who based on external appearances will require fewer sick days and cost me less to insure?

Update I want to clarify something. Perhaps it is better stated this way:

Do you get frustrated by people who acknowledge they have a health issue (obesity) and do nothing about it?

Does that affect your attitudes when you proselytize about paleo to your friends, coworkers, and family? How have you succeeded in persuading people resistant to change?

I sometimes get angry with people who don't change because one persons health decisions affect all of us through insurance. Is that wrong?

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 11:01 PM

about moderators but I think the point here is a valid one.

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 11:01 PM

Bree, Thank you for taking the time to clarify. I agree that it is not helpful to use words such as loathe and repulse and I realize asking about "hate," though it was tongue in cheek, may be considered in poor taste and I deleted it. But, why is there no room in paleo hacks to ask moral questions about economic discrimination? If I asked about a sugar tax I bet I wouldn't have been shot down. But I asked about paying overweight people less, which while economically similar to a sugar tax is considered taboo here. It seems like a double standard. I'm sorry for caricaturing what you said

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:53 PM

is along the lines of fat-shaming and I don't think that is helpful at all and I echo what Nance and Dragonfly both said above. This site has many contributing members that are at different places in their own personal journeys and to log on and read a thread that includes words such as loathe and repulse when speaking to overweight and obese people is not helpful, in fact it is the opposite.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:51 PM

Hey Sam - Sorry for the argument above - I feel like I need to explain myself a touch more to you in regards to my reasoning as well as maybe explain why you could not find any related posts. Moderators (the people with the fancy black diamonds next to their names) delete posts that become subjective and argumentative, so they are not on the board anymore. And my comment as to how long you've been around here goes to the fact that those of us who have been here a while have seen this stuff go down so we know what gets closed and deleted. I voted to close the question because I felt that it

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:46 PM

Regarding the original provocation in the title, it was meant to be provacative in order to get people talking. It did that, but when people objected and I thought it was getting in the way I changed it and I apologized. The thread was then closed anyway, which does not make sense to me.

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:43 PM

If there is a dispute over a thread based on whether or not it has been asked before, even though it has garnered significant discussion on both sides, shouldn't such a trivial dispute be settled in favor of furthering the discourse? I can't support shutting of discussion in this case. Sure, I am biased here, but I think everyone had interesting things to say and I was looking forward to hearing from other users until we were cut off.

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:42 PM

If there is a dispute over a thread based on whether or not it has been asked before, even though it has garnered significant discussion on both sides, should such a trivial dispute be settled in favor of furthering the discourse? I can't support shutting of discussion in this case. Sure, I am biased here, but I think everyone had interesting things to say and I was looking forward to hearing from other users until we were cut off.

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:40 PM

Kamal, thanks for your input. I took your advice and I searched for those three terms and "fatism" returned a closed thread. I had already searched "prejudice" and found another closed thread, which prompted me to ask this in the first place. On your recommendation I searched "frustration with neolethal eaters," and that did return an open thread. It is not always easy to find relevant threads on PH, and I probably would not have thought of that query. A lot of people thought this was not repeated and merited a response - probably because there were unique aspects (i.e. work discrimination).

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:34 PM

I used those words to describe behavior that was being exhibited. it is arrogant to act as if you know better based on a have been around longer. It is hypocritical to close a post because it is off topic or repetitive when this rule is clearly not enforced universally. The title to this post was provocative but the discussion and ideas shared were informative. A rare case of style over substance. This topic will be an important one as our nation. Continues to deal with healthcare. Sharing ideas is never bad.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:29 PM

Everyone chillax! The facts are: five people voted to close the question and it became closed. The arguments for either side of the issue have been quite reasonable. Three people have voted to re-open the question thus far. I don't think anyone's being a hypocrite, or talking down to new members. If you do, that's fine too, but it might worthwhile to check out other related hacks and bring those to the top.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:19 PM

And using words like hipocrate and arrogant to describe fellow ph members does not foster intelligent debate, it does the exact opposite.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:17 PM

Please read the FAQ's there are no 'self-appointed moderators'

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:12 PM

Sorry, I was incorrect, it's 3000 points. PH is for everyone, I'm not against newer members at all - most of us were pointed to the FAQ's at one point or another. Posts are policed inconsistently because no one is on here 24/7 and has time to look through the myriad of questions. This post was argumentative and subjective to me. It has also been asked before so if you use the search function provided to the right of your name at the top of the page you will be able to find questions very closely related to the three questions that you asked in your edit.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:08 PM

Your essential reasoning is that 'i been around longer therefore I know better.' That is a great way to foster intelligent debate and not come of condescending. I stand by my original statement pointing out the hypocrisy and now arrogance of the self appointed moderators. If you will excuse me, I am going to post in the very relevant would I be a cannibal if there was a zombie apocalypse topic. Im sure that is in the FAQ.

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:07 PM

I for one would much rather discuss which shoes are best for cross fit or whether it's paleo to have kids (!)

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 10:04 PM

Yeah, Mark. PH is for people who have been members for longer than 20 days. We don't want new people. We certainly don't want to hear opinions or discussions that offend people with more than 6000+ rep points.It doesn't matter that it sparked 16 spirited comments and an interesting discussion. It doesn't matter if posts are policed inconsistently. Bree has 6000+ points.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 30, 2012
at 09:40 PM

Mark - you've been a member of PH for 20 days - I think you need to check the faq's and see what kind of site this is. I did state my reasoning - and I voted to close - that is the course of action to take when a member with 6000+ rep points feels a question does not adhere to the site rules as laid out in the FAQ's.

1ef2c3bfd6bb37877b02fddc819bebac

(399)

on April 30, 2012
at 09:21 PM

I agree with trjones. Have you been to the healthcare.gov site? Look up preventive care. What does it tell me to do to get more folic acid???? It says I should get fortified cereal!!! Heaven forbid I get some asparagus and leafy greens. It's a systemic problem, not an individual one.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on April 30, 2012
at 09:16 PM

I think it is hypocritical to close this discussion for being off-topic or repetitive. 50% of the posts on PH fall under both of those categories. If you find it offensive, please state your reasoning. If you do not like the discussion, then do not be a part of it. You are not the moral police of PH.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 30, 2012
at 09:03 PM

I voted to close, but I chose subjective and argumentative. I am so sick of all the questions pertaining to how frustrated all the paleo perfect people are with fatties. There are literally tens of question on ph that have this exact same message - so dig around and post there. The updated questions that the OP asked have all been asked here before.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on April 30, 2012
at 08:40 PM

There are federal and state laws that prevent insurance companies from charging the full amount to users based in risk. This forces this insurance companies to raise the costs on lower risk users to cover higher risk users. Also consider Medicare and Medicaid are programs everyone is forced into. When you consider the obese people use medical services at a much higher rate, it is accurate to say that the obesity pandemic is a major factor in driving up healthcare costs in the united states.

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 30, 2012
at 07:57 PM

@kamal - I understand that functionality. It seems I erroneously assumed the list of closers were all moderators! I'm going to edit out my "poor form" comment, then, since my assumption was incorrect. I do, however, stand by my earlier point. (Since, I cannot actually edit the comment, I will delete and repost editted.)

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 30, 2012
at 07:56 PM

Most of the questions on PH aren't only paleo-specific, rather they are germane to paleo-related topics like weight loss, obesity, exercise, cooking, etc. This question was not the perfect example of a "perfect question" to ask on PH, but closing it as "off topic" is completely asinine: it is a topic that at least 16 people had an answer/opinion for before it was closed.

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 30, 2012
at 07:56 PM

@kamal - I understand that functionality. It seems I erroneously assumed the list of closers were all moderators! I'm going to edit out my "poor form" comment, then, since my assumption was incorrect. I do, however, stand by my earlier point. (Since, I cannot actually edit the comment, I was delete and repost editted.)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 30, 2012
at 07:48 PM

greymouser- This thread was closed by the community, not by moderators. Paleohacks is run by the community as well as moderators, so the preponderance of public opinion typically dictates what stays and what goes. You can vote to reopen, suggest rewording, etc if you'd like.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 30, 2012
at 07:48 PM

greymouser- This thread was close by the community, not by moderators. Paleohacks is run by the community as well as moderators, so the preponderance of public opinion typically dictates what stays and what goes. You can vote to reopen, suggest rewording, etc if you'd like.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 30, 2012
at 07:46 PM

Hi Sam- This topic has been discussed as part of hacks on "fatism", paleo-evangelism, "frustration with neolethal eaters", and other such things. If you'd like to weigh in, these types of hacks are floating around out in the ether. If you answer a hack, the thread will pop to the top of the list and other people may also provide new answers.

8496289baf18c2d3e210740614dc9082

(1867)

on April 30, 2012
at 07:45 PM

I just don't find this an irrelevant discussion, nor do I find it off-topic. This is a public health issue that indirectly affects all of us, and our attitudes about the folks unwilling or unable to address their role within it are far more than just idle fodder. It's an important and potentially productive discussion, not a venue for fat-bashing. The fact that this topic was commented upon by nearly every visitor despite being up less than a day speaks to the fact that it probably should not have been closed.

E7adfe31507efb7c935f618a829f56d6

(1507)

on April 30, 2012
at 07:44 PM

it's simply not accurate to say that "fat" people (above 25% and 32%) are affecting your health insurance premiums. That is a gross oversimplification and a misunderstanding of health costs. For example, would you disagree with a policy that promoted health insurance coverage for a paleo seminar and coaching for "fat" people? You'd be subsidizing that. This information is a pin drop in the cacophony of "health" information. Exhibit A: Michelle Obama and "lowfat" health. The problem is bad policy. That's why you "subsidize" unhealthy people, which, by the way, is how insurance works.

8496289baf18c2d3e210740614dc9082

(1867)

on April 30, 2012
at 07:44 PM

I just don't fine this an irrelevant discussion, nor do I find it off-topic. This is a public health issue that indirectly affects all of us, and our attitudes about the folks unwilling or unable to address their role within it are far more than just idle fodder. It's an important and potentially productive discussion, not a venue for fat-bashing. The fact that this topic was commented upon by nearly every visitor despite being up less than a day speaks to the fact that it probably should not have been closed.

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 30, 2012
at 07:34 PM

Most of the questions on PH aren't only paleo-specific, rather they are germane to paleo-related topics like weight loss, obesity, exercise, cooking, etc. This question was not the perfect example of a "perfect question" to ask on PH, but closing it as "off topic" is completely asinine: it is a topic that at least 16 people had an answer/opinion for before it was closed. Poor form, moderators, poor form.

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 30, 2012
at 07:33 PM

**Most** of the questions on PH aren't only paleo-specific, rather they are germane to paleo-related topics like weight loss, obesity, exercise, cooking, etc. This question was not the perfect example of a "perfect question" to ask on OH, but closing it as "off topic" is completely asinine: it is a topic that at least **16** people had an opionion or answer for before it was closed. Poor form, moderators, poor form.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on April 30, 2012
at 07:08 PM

Sam~ Change the question if you don't want it to be closed. You can edit it to reflect one of the questions in your update.

193b7fb0fec8913d5ebb3b99a04d21c6

(2918)

on April 30, 2012
at 06:35 PM

Mike, I had a friend who was an IT manager who didn't smoke, but he did go outside for "smoke breaks". His reasoning was that it cleared his head, he got to socialize with his coworkers (most of which were smokers, I guess), and also a lot of work discussion occurred during those breaks that he wanted to be a part of, in case some brilliant idea occurred. Take a smoke break, but don't smoke. Why not?

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on April 30, 2012
at 06:24 PM

Obesity is not an aesthetic view point or an opinion. It is medically defined, can be measured, and is known to greatly increases a multitude of health risks. These health risks incur greater use of the medical system. Reducing obesity lowers these health risks. Laws prevent or cap what insurers can charge obese people, spreading the cost to all users. People who ride motorcycles are required to have insurance with specific medical coverage (varies by state). They pay for their lifestyle choice. I've read critics of Paleo for exclusion of certain foods, I have not heard of a ban.

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 06:22 PM

To the people voting down the question: do you not like the question or the sentiment expressed? Please leave comments. If you simply disagree, say so. Are you saying that the question shouldn't be asked at all? I think a lot of people are are appreciating the discussion even if they don't agree.

4ec0fe4b4aab327f7efa2dfb06b032ff

(5145)

on April 30, 2012
at 06:21 PM

That's exactly my point. We shouldn't be judging people based on how their lifestyle choices affect things like medical costs. While it might have some benefits to do so, the downside is far greater. People need to have the freedom to make bad decisions, even if there is some marginal costs for the rest of us.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on April 30, 2012
at 06:20 PM

I'm with Nance~ And given the number of people who come here seeking help with weight loss, I could imagine that the question can read as offensive, even if that's not your intention.

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 06:18 PM

@Mark: Economists call the additional health costs "externalities," costs of economic behavior that are borne by society. I think the wage discrepancy is a way of internalizing costs that otherwise would be external. If we aren't going to nanny people we should at least internalize some of these costs. @tgdor: The ADA itself is a restriction of the free market and distorts wages - we as society need to evaluate which market restrictions are worthwhile. I think we all agree that pregnancy is worthwhile. I'm curious to see if the paleo community wants to similarly protect obesity.

11b7b7ba720a5cd43c74a0ef99a16adb

(3448)

on April 30, 2012
at 06:13 PM

Where do we draw the line on what is an unhealthy lifestyle. More importantly, who gets to draw the line? Who's opinion rules? Married men not only live longer, but have fewer diseases than single men. Should we give a 'free pass' to men that choose to live an unhealthy single lifestyle, or require men to marry? IMHO, riding a motorcycle is an unhealthy lifestyle. There are doctors proposing that EVERYONE be on statins, that it should even be put in our drinking water. The paleo diet would be banned by health experts.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on April 30, 2012
at 06:04 PM

@GurlzLuvSteak: Other people's lives become other people's business when they effect others. The cost and quality of healthcare in the United States suffers do to the Obesity Pandemic. Thanks to Federal and State taxes, higher insurance premiums, Medicare and Medicaid; these costs are passed on to everyone else. Those that make poor life choices do not pay the full cost of their choices. If they did, then it would be their business and only theirs.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on April 30, 2012
at 05:59 PM

I understand your point. What I do not like is it gives a 'free pass' to those that choose to live unhealthy lifestyles. Ultimately, the person most accountable for their health is themselves. Even if the effect of the examples you listed were combined, they would not have as great of an effect as obesity does on the cost of healthcare. A core concept of the paleo diet, which is eat natural and unprocessed foods, is not new or unique. Essentially this has been the recommendation of health professionals since there have been health professionals. Living an unhealthy life is a choice.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on April 30, 2012
at 05:50 PM

Many employers simply put physical requirements as part of the core job component to get around this. I am an engineer and spend 8 hours a day behind a desk at my computer. It is a job requirement that I be able to lift 50 pounds overhead, stand for longer than 60 minutes, and be able to perform all day field inspections on foot.

870fdea50f2a9f1cd2890c8e22549300

(2056)

on April 30, 2012
at 05:13 PM

The Americans with Disabilities Act has been interpreted to apply to protect the morbidly obese. Your state may have laws banning employment discrimination as well. In the bad old days, women were discriminated against because they might get pregnant and require more sick days and cost more to insure. Do we really want to return to that?

870fdea50f2a9f1cd2890c8e22549300

(2056)

on April 30, 2012
at 05:11 PM

It may be a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act if you are discriminating in your hiring decisions. Some courts have held "morbid obesity" to be a disability under the ADA.

Ddfdaa75ac9f47e01fc71162dd0d38dc

on April 30, 2012
at 05:00 PM

I don't think it's any of my darn business how other people live their lives. Otherwise, I'd be just as bad as Mrs. Obama nannying on low fat. Why don't we just keep our noses outta other peopke's plates?

8634d4988ced45a68e2a79e69cc01835

(1617)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:59 PM

"I personally have several overweight friends who tell me how lucky I am. They like to say how easy I have it. Never mind that I order fruit instead of fries on road trips while they supersize and get an extra burger. They regularly drink alcohol (3+ times per week) while I will only go out once a week. I ask them to go on walks with me and they say they are too tired. It is not luck that I am 40+ pounds lighter than them." - I agree with this so much. I have to bust my ass to stay slim, yet I get 'you're so lucky, I'll bet you have a super metabolism/can eat anything you want' comments.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:55 PM

P.S. - Robb Wolf, with his libertarian leanings, recognizes that the coming onslaught from obesity-related health problems and the looming nationalized healthcare proposal are going to sink our country into economic despair.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:53 PM

I agree with Sam. For my part, reading Taubes threw a mirror in my face about this very issue. And yet I still see Paleo folks, even formerly obese ones, talking smack about those who have yet to understand the scope of the problem. I think it's a vital question for our community.

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:33 PM

+1, capturing my feelings exactly

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:31 PM

Hi Nance, I appreciate your moderator role but I respectfully disagree. It is related to how we as a paleo community interact with people outside. It is intimately related to eating whole foods, exercise, etc. Plus, other questions such as "how did everyone first hear about paleo" are routinely left open.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:27 PM

Sorry, I think your question is off topic for this site. It's a great philosophical question but it's not related to eating whole foods, exercise, etc. for health and longevity. If you shift it to be about losing fat or the impact of excess body fat on health then it slides in.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:26 PM

Sorry, I think your question is off topic for this site. It's a great philosophical question but it's not related to eating whole foods, exercise, etc. for health and longevity. If you shift it to be about

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:12 PM

You're right, to a point. And there are plenty of "skinny-fat" people who are just as sick, metabolically. I made reference to "fat" people, but I'm using "fat" as an outwardly visible proxy for health. But if you are making a hiring decision between two people who are otherwise identically qualified, is it wrong to choose the healthier looking person in an effort to avoid future absenteeism and additional insurance costs (up to $2,000 per employee for the obese). What would you do?

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:09 PM

I appreciate your response and thank you for not jumping on me for the word hate. I also do not hate anyone, I was using it for hyperbolic effect. To your point, I can understand easily how people gain weight. I myself have put on 25 lbs before even noticing something is wrong. But there is a choice to be made once you do realize something is wrong and so I get a lot of conflicting feelings towards people who do not change for the better. There is sympathy and pity, but also deep frustration.

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:04 PM

I agree as well. I'm happy when I see overweight people at the gym, or walking or biking outside. But then I start to get upset. Upset because they aren't really in a "situation". Upset because their "situation," including cardiovascular disease and diabetes, costs everyone money. People are responsible for their actions, including when those actions are eating too much, eating the wrong foods, and not moving enough. It's not America's fault for fueling the culture, isn't it the fault of people for cherry picking the aspects of the culture they will participate in, like fast food.

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16 Answers

12
11b7b7ba720a5cd43c74a0ef99a16adb

(3448)

on April 30, 2012
at 06:00 PM

Wow! I feel like I've wandered into a traditional, SAD weight sight. Far too many responses here seem to have an underlying assumption that fat people are undisciplined, lazy gluttons who only need to eat less and exercise more to whip themselves into peak health.

WRONG!

It's my experience that most overweight people have tried to lose weight and failed. And, they've failed NOT because they weren't trying hard enough or lacked discipline, but because the conventional weight loss wisdom is actually a recipe for gaining weight.

A calorie restricted diet (officially known as a semi-starvation diet) causes your body to think you're in the middle of a famine. So what does it do? It lowers you metabolism to make the available calories last as long as possible while increasing your hunger pangs to focus your mind on eating more (to the point that you become obsessed with eating). Exactly the opposite of what you want.

And what do most diets recommend you eat? Cut out all the high fat foods (which happen to be the ones that do the best job of satisfying hunger pangs) and instead eat lots of "healthy carbs" (which spike you insulin, prevent you from burning the fat in your fat cells, and does little to satisfy your hunger pangs).

Fat people aren't fat because they are undisciplined, lazy gluttons. They're fat because they don't KNOW how to eat; they're fat because they've been given the wrong advice by health experts--advice that if followed to the letter will only make them fatter.

9
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 30, 2012
at 05:41 PM

Do you hate fat people?

No. Do I need to explain why I don't hate them?

8
685e3c967e63b4eacccf02628fd9a3ac

(1026)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:52 PM

I think this is a great question, Sam. I hate fat people as much as I hate people with allergies, with acne, ... It's just a symptom of an underlying problem. Yes, some people do know how to get lean. But give them a break. When you're fat, it's not easy getting out of the vicious cycle. You have to make a BIG change in your life. I will never hate fat people, because I'm fairly certain they hate themselves more than enough (at least most of them).

You know the thing I can't stand : I know someone with big time acne that likes to say that fat people are unbelievable, extremely lazy, and that they just have to eat a bit less and run a bit more. What's unbelievable is how blind these type of people are.

8
81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:23 PM

What constitutes 'fat people?' Aesthetically, that term can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people.

From a more objective stand point, the focus should be on a target level or greater of body fat %. Men's excess fat % begins at 25% and while women's at 32%. I believe these are the levels at which one is considered medically obese. It is undeniable and confirmed in medical study after medical study that human beings that are medically obese are unhealthy and have a poorer quality of life. This causes obese people to have a disproportionate increase in cost to national health care than their healthier counterparts.

I recognize that the issue of obesity is far more complex than 'live a healthy lifestyle.' Eating less and exercising is certainly effective but difficult to maintain for those that have lived a caloric rich and sedentary lifestyle the majority of their lives. Their struggles are very similar to drug withdrawal.

My personal feelings...that is complex as well. I lived the majority of my 20's at 180 pounds. I am 5'8" tall. That puts me in the 28-30% body fat range. I wore size mediums and had a 32 waist so I did not 'look fat.' The fact remained, I was medically obese. I started taking my exercise and health seriously. It is a daily struggle for me to treat food as fuel. Some days I have to force myself to go to the gym or on a hike. I don't always win. As of now, I am 165 pounds and my body fat is 22-23%.

I personally have several overweight friends who tell me how lucky I am. They like to say how easy I have it. Never mind that I order fruit instead of fries on road trips while they supersize and get an extra burger. They regularly drink alcohol (3+ times per week) while I will only go out once a week. I ask them to go on walks with me and they say they are too tired. It is not luck that I am 40+ pounds lighter than them. At times, I loathe my overweight friends and have a degree of repulsion towards them.

Hate is a strong word. I dislike that I pay higher insurance premiums because others that do not take care of themselves drive up costs. I dislike the attitude of helplessness and lack of accountability many take on (this is not unique to obesity but has crept into American culture). Mainly, I am saddened that so many people have negatively impacted their lives in a such great way.

E7adfe31507efb7c935f618a829f56d6

(1507)

on April 30, 2012
at 07:44 PM

it's simply not accurate to say that "fat" people (above 25% and 32%) are affecting your health insurance premiums. That is a gross oversimplification and a misunderstanding of health costs. For example, would you disagree with a policy that promoted health insurance coverage for a paleo seminar and coaching for "fat" people? You'd be subsidizing that. This information is a pin drop in the cacophony of "health" information. Exhibit A: Michelle Obama and "lowfat" health. The problem is bad policy. That's why you "subsidize" unhealthy people, which, by the way, is how insurance works.

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:33 PM

+1, capturing my feelings exactly

8634d4988ced45a68e2a79e69cc01835

(1617)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:59 PM

"I personally have several overweight friends who tell me how lucky I am. They like to say how easy I have it. Never mind that I order fruit instead of fries on road trips while they supersize and get an extra burger. They regularly drink alcohol (3+ times per week) while I will only go out once a week. I ask them to go on walks with me and they say they are too tired. It is not luck that I am 40+ pounds lighter than them." - I agree with this so much. I have to bust my ass to stay slim, yet I get 'you're so lucky, I'll bet you have a super metabolism/can eat anything you want' comments.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on April 30, 2012
at 08:40 PM

There are federal and state laws that prevent insurance companies from charging the full amount to users based in risk. This forces this insurance companies to raise the costs on lower risk users to cover higher risk users. Also consider Medicare and Medicaid are programs everyone is forced into. When you consider the obese people use medical services at a much higher rate, it is accurate to say that the obesity pandemic is a major factor in driving up healthcare costs in the united states.

5
Medium avatar

(2301)

on April 30, 2012
at 05:28 PM

I think it can be better described as a general frustration with people who refuse to take care of themselves and act dumb and helpless or like it's "too hard".

5
7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

on April 30, 2012
at 05:07 PM

I don't hate fat people; I hate the idea for paying their health care costs.

Hate's a strong word, but when I see an obese person drinking a 44oz big-gulp of Pepsi, it does make me angry and frustrated.

Mike

5
Ebcbbdcb8b727e69e06eaa102d49a84c

on April 30, 2012
at 03:58 PM

Yes, I agree with Joy. It's more sadness that they are in their current situation.

Sad that some heavy people don't know why they are the way they are.

Sad that America fuels this type of culture.

Sad for their children who have a higher chance of having the same problems.

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:04 PM

I agree as well. I'm happy when I see overweight people at the gym, or walking or biking outside. But then I start to get upset. Upset because they aren't really in a "situation". Upset because their "situation," including cardiovascular disease and diabetes, costs everyone money. People are responsible for their actions, including when those actions are eating too much, eating the wrong foods, and not moving enough. It's not America's fault for fueling the culture, isn't it the fault of people for cherry picking the aspects of the culture they will participate in, like fast food.

3
F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on April 30, 2012
at 05:00 PM

Not hate. But plenty of sadness and anger for the "powers" that brought us here. I recently went on vacation and while people-watching in the airport, I was literally brought to tears thinking about how helpless everyone feels and how they have no idea how they've gotten to this place in life and they have no idea how to make it better.

But here's the leap. We ALL have things about us that we feel this way about. Maybe it's of an emotional nature. Or maybe we don't have the career we want. Maybe our marriage is in shambles. We all have struggles and we all feel helpless sometimes. And that's why I get emotional about it, because being overweight is just another way that human beings suffer, albeit a more obvious one.

So maybe you're not overweight, but what are you suffering about?

3
Fd7b128cf714044a86d8bd822c7a8992

(4292)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:03 PM

No, I don't hate anyone just because of the way they look. Maybe they have hormone issues or a medical problem I don't know about. Maybe their life is a living hell and is causing them to have a binge eating disorder. I have no right to judge based on a look at the outside.

I do get extremely frustrated with people who have no willpower or purposefully sabotage their health, but those things aren't only related to eating, and plenty of skinny people also know they should stop eating [x] but they're just blessed with better genetics so they don't gain weight from it and it doesn't show on the outside. You can't tell from the outside if someone has no self-control or doesn't respect their body, and those are the things that I dislike people for, not the number of fat cells.

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:12 PM

You're right, to a point. And there are plenty of "skinny-fat" people who are just as sick, metabolically. I made reference to "fat" people, but I'm using "fat" as an outwardly visible proxy for health. But if you are making a hiring decision between two people who are otherwise identically qualified, is it wrong to choose the healthier looking person in an effort to avoid future absenteeism and additional insurance costs (up to $2,000 per employee for the obese). What would you do?

870fdea50f2a9f1cd2890c8e22549300

(2056)

on April 30, 2012
at 05:11 PM

It may be a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act if you are discriminating in your hiring decisions. Some courts have held "morbid obesity" to be a disability under the ADA.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on April 30, 2012
at 05:50 PM

Many employers simply put physical requirements as part of the core job component to get around this. I am an engineer and spend 8 hours a day behind a desk at my computer. It is a job requirement that I be able to lift 50 pounds overhead, stand for longer than 60 minutes, and be able to perform all day field inspections on foot.

3
D1728f99db66ff91d695a6df5cd38b02

(1368)

on April 30, 2012
at 03:44 PM

No I don't hate fat people. I struggle to keep myself within a healthy weight range and I know how hard it is to lose weight. I am inspired by overweight people who get out there and try to lose weight. It is so much more difficult for an overweight person to lose weight than a normal weight person. Doing stuff is hard in general, I don't want to feel sorry for fat people but if there was an emotion I feel, it would be sadness.

2
7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

on April 30, 2012
at 05:56 PM

What I hate more:

My co-workers who get to go outside for "smoke breaks" when I'm stuck inside.

Mike

193b7fb0fec8913d5ebb3b99a04d21c6

(2918)

on April 30, 2012
at 06:35 PM

Mike, I had a friend who was an IT manager who didn't smoke, but he did go outside for "smoke breaks". His reasoning was that it cleared his head, he got to socialize with his coworkers (most of which were smokers, I guess), and also a lot of work discussion occurred during those breaks that he wanted to be a part of, in case some brilliant idea occurred. Take a smoke break, but don't smoke. Why not?

2
4ec0fe4b4aab327f7efa2dfb06b032ff

(5145)

on April 30, 2012
at 05:24 PM

Not to sound like a no-account bleeding heart, but the obesity epidemic is much more about systemic problems in American society than about the choices of the individuals. It's hard to make the right choice when you don't have the knowledge to know what's right, or the access to good foods. We can all point at the people drinking the big gulp and feel self-satisfied, but the fact is that most of the obese people I know aren't doing things like that. They got fat by eating processed crap that they genuinely thought was healthy for them. They got fat because they work their asses off (figuratively) and don't have the energy to work their asses off literally because they're sick and fatigued from eating cardboard.

I can't even get worked up about medical costs. Most people voluntarily do things that are going to cost others. Are you a bad driver? I bet some of you are. Do you smoke? Jaywalk? Drink? Rock climb? Life is too short to judge people based on the actuarial tables.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on April 30, 2012
at 05:59 PM

I understand your point. What I do not like is it gives a 'free pass' to those that choose to live unhealthy lifestyles. Ultimately, the person most accountable for their health is themselves. Even if the effect of the examples you listed were combined, they would not have as great of an effect as obesity does on the cost of healthcare. A core concept of the paleo diet, which is eat natural and unprocessed foods, is not new or unique. Essentially this has been the recommendation of health professionals since there have been health professionals. Living an unhealthy life is a choice.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on April 30, 2012
at 06:24 PM

Obesity is not an aesthetic view point or an opinion. It is medically defined, can be measured, and is known to greatly increases a multitude of health risks. These health risks incur greater use of the medical system. Reducing obesity lowers these health risks. Laws prevent or cap what insurers can charge obese people, spreading the cost to all users. People who ride motorcycles are required to have insurance with specific medical coverage (varies by state). They pay for their lifestyle choice. I've read critics of Paleo for exclusion of certain foods, I have not heard of a ban.

4ec0fe4b4aab327f7efa2dfb06b032ff

(5145)

on April 30, 2012
at 06:21 PM

That's exactly my point. We shouldn't be judging people based on how their lifestyle choices affect things like medical costs. While it might have some benefits to do so, the downside is far greater. People need to have the freedom to make bad decisions, even if there is some marginal costs for the rest of us.

1ef2c3bfd6bb37877b02fddc819bebac

(399)

on April 30, 2012
at 09:21 PM

I agree with trjones. Have you been to the healthcare.gov site? Look up preventive care. What does it tell me to do to get more folic acid???? It says I should get fortified cereal!!! Heaven forbid I get some asparagus and leafy greens. It's a systemic problem, not an individual one.

11b7b7ba720a5cd43c74a0ef99a16adb

(3448)

on April 30, 2012
at 06:13 PM

Where do we draw the line on what is an unhealthy lifestyle. More importantly, who gets to draw the line? Who's opinion rules? Married men not only live longer, but have fewer diseases than single men. Should we give a 'free pass' to men that choose to live an unhealthy single lifestyle, or require men to marry? IMHO, riding a motorcycle is an unhealthy lifestyle. There are doctors proposing that EVERYONE be on statins, that it should even be put in our drinking water. The paleo diet would be banned by health experts.

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:18 PM

How is a fat person any different then myself for low fat/high gluten eating/exercising myself to adrenal/thyroid/compromised immune system. I really gave a shit and still ending up far worse than almost any fat person. I was predisposed to sickness, they were(are) predisposed to fat......In fact I can turn the question slighly around. I am sexually turned off by fat people(women) but I'm have been more than willing to pursue thin women who are equally or otherwise more SAD deranged. Perhpaps I can bame it on the male obssesion with female beauty. I've ended up paying for this proclivity later on in the relationship.:)

1
193b7fb0fec8913d5ebb3b99a04d21c6

(2918)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:03 PM

I understand what you're getting at with this sentiment, but I agree with the other posters in that it's a sad feeling. I have friends who are so morbidly obese and there's no tactful way to suggest they need help without being offensive. It's sad to me that they don't value their own life enough to preserve it in a way worth living. It's sad to me that their children see this behavior and who knows how they process it.

I'm not talking about people who are overweight and trying to be healthy. I'm talking about people who have gone too far and don't care enough to cross back.

1
Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:02 PM

I pity those who are obese; I do not hate them.

I struggle to maintain a healthy weight, myself. So I suppose at times, when I'm thinking with less empathy, I stumble into "If I did it, why can't they?" I try to catch myself when I do this for any reason, and disable that way of thinking.

The first steps on the road to obesity are murky with some choices, but a lot of being nurtured to make poor lifestyle choices. Once that path has been walked for so long, it's no longer a choice to remain there - it's just the way it is. However, a choice exists to change one's life for the better.

I can't conceivably hate someone for getting themselves into that situation. I can, however, pity them for not making the choice to try to get out of it sooner than tomorrow.

I've been told I'm sometimes an asshole when discussing this subject - I hope this explained my position w/o being too much of a jerk. :-)

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 30, 2012
at 04:09 PM

I appreciate your response and thank you for not jumping on me for the word hate. I also do not hate anyone, I was using it for hyperbolic effect. To your point, I can understand easily how people gain weight. I myself have put on 25 lbs before even noticing something is wrong. But there is a choice to be made once you do realize something is wrong and so I get a lot of conflicting feelings towards people who do not change for the better. There is sympathy and pity, but also deep frustration.

0
7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

on April 30, 2012
at 04:44 PM

I don't hate fat people because you can get fat for many reasons besides greed, but those who have gotten that way through indifference to their health (and the wider implications for family and even the state) do make me feel some anger No matter what the state of my health I take solace in the fact that I am driven to improve so I know that some day I will

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