1

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Paleo Left or Right

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created June 16, 2010 at 4:04 AM

Possible Duplicate:
Are Paleos Libertarian?

Out of curiosity and not to start a flame war, what side of the political scene do you fall on? It's hard to shoebox everyone into two categories (USA). Personally I feel neither side "gets" me or many of my peers. I'm just curious what the spread is out there in paleo/primal land. Especially with all the environmental happenings in the US, it appears to have the same level of polarization and it can be good to talk about it.

50f991ef091a492765f00cf8945bc7ad

(61)

on June 17, 2010
at 03:51 AM

Man, I even described Ted K. as "offensive" to a non-anarchist. Have you ever read his stuff? I may not agree with what he did, but that doesn't negate the validity of his observations. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Good info, is good info, even if you think the person saying it is a douche. Or, if you prefer, you can keep you fingers in your ears, saying "LA, LA, LA" and only listening to the people you decide are "safe". Don't sweat it. That's what most do.

0037d03799fbdf83d3edc63dab01ac5a

(236)

on June 17, 2010
at 01:28 AM

Ed, you are totally right! I actually "knocked" the dude without even realizing that he was bat shit crazy. I guess I'd like to knock him again...

0037d03799fbdf83d3edc63dab01ac5a

(236)

on June 17, 2010
at 01:27 AM

Dude, the world is a complicated place. BP tried to convince Canada, like they convinced the US, that deep sea drilling is so safe that drilling a relief well aong with a primary well is unnecessary. Canada, being an even bigger experiment in big governement, called bullshit and required the relief wells, despite the testimony of BP's experts. I would like that kind of experiment in big government.

0037d03799fbdf83d3edc63dab01ac5a

(236)

on June 17, 2010
at 01:26 AM

Dude, the world is a complicated place. BP tried to convince Canada, like they convinced the US, that deep sea drilling is so safe, a relief well is unnecessary. Canada, being an even bigger experiment in big governement, called bullshit and required the relief wells, despite the testimony of BP's experts. I would like that kind of experiment in big government.

64242a1130eb51f4852f78beed38b3d5

(1343)

on June 17, 2010
at 12:25 AM

OK..............................

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on June 16, 2010
at 11:09 PM

@Danny, c'mon now, mailing bombs to university professors goes a bit beyond a legitimate "way of life." "The dude" cites the Unibomber as an example of his philosophy.

E7f241690dba5909c93bf4eee1d0d07c

on June 16, 2010
at 11:05 PM

I view into the year 2012 - LOL http://tweetphoto.com/27537489

E7f241690dba5909c93bf4eee1d0d07c

on June 16, 2010
at 11:02 PM

Jay, I understand your concerns, but your comment can be countered by stating 'benevolent' big government regulations sounds so nice, until you see how often the promise of protection through regulatory bureaucracy is often an illusion. Think Katrina, and of the housing and the related financial crisis, where there was no lack of regulations. The past 75 or so years has not been an experiment of free markets, its been a experiment in big government, and the results are that we are a nation on decline due to an over reliance on big government. FYI - you'll likely need guns before 2012. ;-)

36dd8a49324c45fb49a38765000eca1e

(377)

on June 16, 2010
at 08:20 PM

Don't knock the dude for his personal views. To many people Paleo/Primal is more than a nutritional philosophy; it's a way of life(e.g. Paleo Diet vs. Primal Blueprint). Even in America there are intentional communities where people live in small sects with very little influence from the outside world, relying on horticulture and food foraging much like our ancestors did.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on June 16, 2010
at 08:06 PM

Not nearly that simple

A68f24168bc0de414a038037e287b581

(4896)

on June 16, 2010
at 07:54 PM

real patriotism is also to criticize and struggle to better the country you love, don't you think? the US is not an ideal, and not some kind of monolith... I think everyone can agree that there are milliards of things that we love/agree and many others we do not accept, like or think of as beneficial to the society. You can't just leave.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on June 16, 2010
at 07:49 PM

It's worth noting that there has been a bipartisan political effort to pour increasing amounts of money into housing, with both major tax breaks and favorable regulation. The regulators allow banks to hold mortgage-backed securities at a fraction of the capital requirement of actual mortgages, enforce a ratings agency oligopoly which gave these instruments a AAA stamp of approval, and kept short term interest rates low for prolonged periods until the repo market grew dramatically in size... I would have preferred lax regulators to outright malevolent ones!

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 16, 2010
at 07:04 PM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/4310/are-paleos-libertarian

38a5533adf905879c79cc3d7e3fb2aa0

(46)

on June 16, 2010
at 06:06 PM

I personally think it would be irresponsible for me to just leave and not try and change things.

15d23403fb836f2b506f4f3ad2c03356

(1219)

on June 16, 2010
at 05:42 PM

What does a nutritional philosophy have to do with political beliefs? You realize that we can't all actually be hunter gatherers, right?

15d23403fb836f2b506f4f3ad2c03356

(1219)

on June 16, 2010
at 05:41 PM

Cool, our whole modern society governed by one document that no one can argue with. I'm sure glad that one document wasn't written like 300 years ago or something

15d23403fb836f2b506f4f3ad2c03356

(1219)

on June 16, 2010
at 05:40 PM

Cool, out whole modern society governed by one document that no one can argue with. I'm sure glad that one document wasn't written like 300 years ago or something.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 16, 2010
at 05:19 PM

This. Exactly. Divide, conquer, distract.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 16, 2010
at 05:18 PM

This. Divide, distract, conquer.

78ecfc8268ec58cdc189301f4b071088

(1670)

on June 16, 2010
at 04:00 PM

didn't we just have this exact same conversation a month ago here?

0037d03799fbdf83d3edc63dab01ac5a

(236)

on June 16, 2010
at 02:13 PM

Living rich is America is easy so why would I leave. I can bemoan that fact that the richest country on earth IS a demonstrable worse place to live middle class or worse. It shouldn't surprise you - we have a tax rate comparable to most countries in Northern Europe yet, we don't provide nearly comparable social services. Why you ask? Simple, most of our taxes pay interest that we incurred for past military spending. We also spend a good chunk for current wars. I guess you're happy paying off Vietnam, the cold war, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Personally, I'd have spent the money differently.

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11 Answers

5
D8691a1cee39ea420a36b163d4a4042b

(404)

on June 16, 2010
at 03:28 PM

Left and right once had real political meaning. left wing politics meant furthering the interests of those who work for a living and Right wing politics meant furthering the interests of those who own for a living. Left vs right was labor vs capital.

At some point, the folks who rule the united states figured out how to implement the roman dictum Divide et Imperum ... Divide and rule. To stay on top, you have get the commoners to fight among themselves, so that they don't turn their attention to you, form alliances among themselves, and seize the throne. You must divide to rule.

Right/left was one of the dividing lines our rulers decided to exploit. But it did not suit their interests to turn the workers against the owners. So they created a simulation of a right/left system. Instead of capital vs labor, it would be pro stem cell research vs anti stem cell research, pro gays in military/anti gays in military, pro prayer in school anti prayer in school, pro gun control anti gun control, etc etc.

For the issue of workers vs bosses, a real conflict, they substituted a series of virtual conflicts, highly emotionally charged issues that the rulers don't give a crap about. Democrat/ republican divide was created, with each party being assigned a list a seemingly arbitrary positions. Why would some one who is opposed to gun guntrol be opposed to legal abortion? Where is the natural link there? There is none, the "positions on the issues" have been apportioned to the two parties so as to keep the divide as near to a perfect fifty fifty as possible. Ever notice that in presidential elections, the popular vote is almost evenly divided? The popular vote has never come close even to 60/40 lobsidedness, let alone 70/30, at least not in my lifetime. How is this possible?

Divide and conquer.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 16, 2010
at 05:19 PM

This. Exactly. Divide, conquer, distract.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 16, 2010
at 05:18 PM

This. Divide, distract, conquer.

4
E7f241690dba5909c93bf4eee1d0d07c

on June 16, 2010
at 04:50 AM

Libertarian. I consider our two party political system to be a 'shamocracy', because a two party democratic process is the absolutely least inclusive political system possible, with the exception of a dictatorship, which doesn't pretend to provide choice to the citizenry.

Of course, the two-party system has created impossible barriers for their competitors to overcome, using restrictive ballot access laws, gerrymandered districts, campaign finance laws (and an incumbent-biased news media) that purposefully benefit the the incumbents (politicians and their respective parties).

Due to the impossible chances for so-called 'third parties' (spent 20 years active in third party politics) I've moved from being and active Libertarian to a small "l' libertarian, actively supporting Ron Paul in the 2008 GOP primaries (then held my nose and voted for CIA operative Bob Barr in the general election) and also voting for libertarians where I could in the lower level races and the anti-incumbent candidate of whatever party where I had no other choice and where I could stomach them (skipped voting in some races where I considered all available options to be non options).

Libertarians instinctively understand the following truism expressed by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.:

"???A piece of freedom is no longer enough for human beings . . . unlike bread, a slice of liberty does not finish hunger. Freedom is like life. It cannot be had in installments. Freedom is indivisible--we have it all, or we are not free.???

Unfortunately, the D's and R's think they can rip our Liberties in half and have us settle for an installment of our freedom.

3
0037d03799fbdf83d3edc63dab01ac5a

(236)

on June 16, 2010
at 01:45 PM

Libertarianism sounds so nice, until you think about the collateral damage cause by lax regulation -- e.g., wall street housing crisis, BP oil spill, etc. Since we don't live as hunter gatherers anymore, I'd opt for bigger & smarter government - the kind that works so well in countries like, say, Sweden. Between, right and left, it's just an IQ test; over 120 and 90% lean left. That said, I will pay $200K in taxes this year so if Sarah Palin wants to ruin the world to save me a few bucks, I guess I can always buy that organic farm I've been dreaming of somewhere off the grid. I'll probably have to buy some guns too, after she's done with things.

E7f241690dba5909c93bf4eee1d0d07c

on June 16, 2010
at 11:02 PM

Jay, I understand your concerns, but your comment can be countered by stating 'benevolent' big government regulations sounds so nice, until you see how often the promise of protection through regulatory bureaucracy is often an illusion. Think Katrina, and of the housing and the related financial crisis, where there was no lack of regulations. The past 75 or so years has not been an experiment of free markets, its been a experiment in big government, and the results are that we are a nation on decline due to an over reliance on big government. FYI - you'll likely need guns before 2012. ;-)

0037d03799fbdf83d3edc63dab01ac5a

(236)

on June 17, 2010
at 01:27 AM

Dude, the world is a complicated place. BP tried to convince Canada, like they convinced the US, that deep sea drilling is so safe that drilling a relief well aong with a primary well is unnecessary. Canada, being an even bigger experiment in big governement, called bullshit and required the relief wells, despite the testimony of BP's experts. I would like that kind of experiment in big government.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on June 16, 2010
at 07:49 PM

It's worth noting that there has been a bipartisan political effort to pour increasing amounts of money into housing, with both major tax breaks and favorable regulation. The regulators allow banks to hold mortgage-backed securities at a fraction of the capital requirement of actual mortgages, enforce a ratings agency oligopoly which gave these instruments a AAA stamp of approval, and kept short term interest rates low for prolonged periods until the repo market grew dramatically in size... I would have preferred lax regulators to outright malevolent ones!

E7f241690dba5909c93bf4eee1d0d07c

on June 16, 2010
at 11:05 PM

I view into the year 2012 - LOL http://tweetphoto.com/27537489

0037d03799fbdf83d3edc63dab01ac5a

(236)

on June 17, 2010
at 01:26 AM

Dude, the world is a complicated place. BP tried to convince Canada, like they convinced the US, that deep sea drilling is so safe, a relief well is unnecessary. Canada, being an even bigger experiment in big governement, called bullshit and required the relief wells, despite the testimony of BP's experts. I would like that kind of experiment in big government.

2
Eedf46c82d0356d1d46dda5f9782ef36

(4464)

on June 16, 2010
at 12:24 PM

I personally want all incumbents from both parties out of office... that's about the only political movement I would actively support - an all new gov't (same constitution, just new people) of independent thinkers and leaders. The two-party system has become more and more of a mockery/sham of what our democracy should be.

So put me in the "middle" of left and right - and disliking both sides.

1
5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 16, 2010
at 01:07 PM

Neither. IMO the two major US parties are too close together in their support of corporate interests over those of humans. Since my main political concern at this time is the pervasive effect the corporations and their money have on every aspect of our lives from diet to education to supporting war profiteers to medicine to the use of taxpayer $ for corporate welfare handed out to the very groups who trashed the economy .... I really don't feel represented at all.

1
C53665c3f012fa1ede91033b08a8a6e7

(2269)

on June 16, 2010
at 10:32 AM

Liberal/libertarian. I want the gov't out of the morality and junk-food subsidy business; otherwise there's definitely a place for a strong gov't to get in the way when needed, witness the current flailing around over the Gulf spill and ineffectuality of both BP and B.O. I voted for him and am so very angry at his apparent passivity. This spill should have tripped a Manhattan Project-like response.

I do get your point about how, typically, liberals and conservatives tend to scoff and dismiss (latter) or turn into concern trolls (former) when confronted with the utterly shocking revelation that I don't eat the same garbage they do, e.g. "that's such bullshit" and "but what about your cholesteroooooool?!?!" while both stuff poisonous industrial food into their maws.

However having learned just how bad industrial food is I'm pretty angry that the gov't under any party is basically shilling for Big Ag and that our taxes subsidize its production. Thanks, Earl Butz, nice legacy you left at USDA.

So I guess I kind of range all over the political map, but more to the left.

0
A68f24168bc0de414a038037e287b581

on June 16, 2010
at 07:58 PM

I've been always leaning to the left. I do not ever want to leave free choice to do anything and everything one might want when it's got to do with money and profit. Free market is not about fairness, justice or equality... it's about money and getting a lot of it, any way one can. Hence issues with HP, worker abuse, and general social and economical injustice.

BUT I do not want the government to govern morality and religion. It's no one's business whom one should marry or if one wants to divorce. No business to have religious beliefs in science or literature classes.

Somehow the more to the right you go, the more people want to keep government out of their yard...but have nothing against sticking the government in the neighbor's yard, bedroom or love life...

0
4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

on June 16, 2010
at 04:32 PM

Constitutinalism

15d23403fb836f2b506f4f3ad2c03356

(1219)

on June 16, 2010
at 05:40 PM

Cool, out whole modern society governed by one document that no one can argue with. I'm sure glad that one document wasn't written like 300 years ago or something.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on June 16, 2010
at 08:06 PM

Not nearly that simple

15d23403fb836f2b506f4f3ad2c03356

(1219)

on June 16, 2010
at 05:41 PM

Cool, our whole modern society governed by one document that no one can argue with. I'm sure glad that one document wasn't written like 300 years ago or something

0
03aeff8d87a3b53a449b5b8e9158da98

(3268)

on June 16, 2010
at 02:03 PM

Small-government, conservative Republican here (recognizing that the Party of Lincoln is not what it used to be). Btw, I'm always bemused by Americans--generally liberals--who think that other countries are demonstrably better and well-governed, yet continue to live in the U.S., where terrible people like Sarah Palin are always lurking in the wings, ready to seize our liberties and "ruin the world." If I thought the country was in such parlous condition, and had such an overheated and conspiratorial view of other party, I certainly would not be sticking around.

But at least we can agree about food!

A68f24168bc0de414a038037e287b581

(4896)

on June 16, 2010
at 07:54 PM

real patriotism is also to criticize and struggle to better the country you love, don't you think? the US is not an ideal, and not some kind of monolith... I think everyone can agree that there are milliards of things that we love/agree and many others we do not accept, like or think of as beneficial to the society. You can't just leave.

38a5533adf905879c79cc3d7e3fb2aa0

(46)

on June 16, 2010
at 06:06 PM

I personally think it would be irresponsible for me to just leave and not try and change things.

0037d03799fbdf83d3edc63dab01ac5a

(236)

on June 16, 2010
at 02:13 PM

Living rich is America is easy so why would I leave. I can bemoan that fact that the richest country on earth IS a demonstrable worse place to live middle class or worse. It shouldn't surprise you - we have a tax rate comparable to most countries in Northern Europe yet, we don't provide nearly comparable social services. Why you ask? Simple, most of our taxes pay interest that we incurred for past military spending. We also spend a good chunk for current wars. I guess you're happy paying off Vietnam, the cold war, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Personally, I'd have spent the money differently.

0
50f991ef091a492765f00cf8945bc7ad

on June 16, 2010
at 01:00 PM

Anarchist. specifically, Anarcho- primitivist. Read Dan Quinn, John Zerzan, Derrick Jensen, Theodore Kazcinski (in that order they're listed in least to worst level of offense to the non anarchist).

But true paleo= anarchist.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on June 16, 2010
at 11:09 PM

@Danny, c'mon now, mailing bombs to university professors goes a bit beyond a legitimate "way of life." "The dude" cites the Unibomber as an example of his philosophy.

36dd8a49324c45fb49a38765000eca1e

(377)

on June 16, 2010
at 08:20 PM

Don't knock the dude for his personal views. To many people Paleo/Primal is more than a nutritional philosophy; it's a way of life(e.g. Paleo Diet vs. Primal Blueprint). Even in America there are intentional communities where people live in small sects with very little influence from the outside world, relying on horticulture and food foraging much like our ancestors did.

15d23403fb836f2b506f4f3ad2c03356

(1219)

on June 16, 2010
at 05:42 PM

What does a nutritional philosophy have to do with political beliefs? You realize that we can't all actually be hunter gatherers, right?

50f991ef091a492765f00cf8945bc7ad

(61)

on June 17, 2010
at 03:51 AM

Man, I even described Ted K. as "offensive" to a non-anarchist. Have you ever read his stuff? I may not agree with what he did, but that doesn't negate the validity of his observations. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Good info, is good info, even if you think the person saying it is a douche. Or, if you prefer, you can keep you fingers in your ears, saying "LA, LA, LA" and only listening to the people you decide are "safe". Don't sweat it. That's what most do.

0037d03799fbdf83d3edc63dab01ac5a

(236)

on June 17, 2010
at 01:28 AM

Ed, you are totally right! I actually "knocked" the dude without even realizing that he was bat shit crazy. I guess I'd like to knock him again...

0
Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on June 16, 2010
at 06:02 AM

"Anarcho-primitivism is an anarchist critique of the origins and progress of civilization. According to anarcho-primitivism, the shift from hunter-gatherer to agricultural subsistence gave rise to social stratification, coercion, and alienation. Anarcho-primitivists advocate a return to non-"civilized" ways of life through deindustrialisation, abolition of the division of labour or specialization, and abandonment of large-scale organization technologies."

Considering civilization caused a splintering of the tribe/family and brought about arthritis, caveties, diabtes, cancer, war, class stratification, suppresion of women, etc... I would like to live the above way but know it's not possible. That being said I vote for the best person for the job, I don't follow party lines.

Edit: I know this sounds extreme but I don't advocate any violent means to restructure society. I think the homeostasis can be brought back through green tech.

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