2

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PHD Ratios for Weight Loss

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created February 15, 2013 at 6:48 PM

I am very strictly paleo and just got finished reading The Perfect Health Diet. I have been VLC (less than 40g/day) for the past few months and my body has finally stalled in the weight loss and feels a bit worn out. After finishing the book, I've decided to up my carb intake and include more safe starches. Towards the end of the book, in the weight loss section, it confused me a bit. It said to cut back on fat. My question is then, what is the optimal ratio for weight loss WHEN exercise is included? I am 26 y/o female, 198lbs, 37% BF. I do some type of exercise 4-6 times per week (HIIT, weight lifting, walking, badminton, Crossfit). This is my plan...

1800-2300 calories/day based on activity level 20% carbs (90-115g) 20% protein (90-115g) 60% fat (120-153g)

Thoughts?

B7858e3ab0a136d9baa29d331743ec5f

(20)

on February 16, 2013
at 02:46 PM

@Daz... thanks for all the help. It just let me click the arrow this time :)

705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

(1013)

on February 16, 2013
at 07:40 AM

The amount of carbs is not constant every day if you are doing HIIT/weight training.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 16, 2013
at 03:28 AM

& yep PHD does not include non-starch veggies in their carb count, on the basis that most non-starchy veggies have less than 10 carb grams per 100 grams & the gut itself requires/uses/burns more than that amount of carbs (glucose) to digest those veggies...so it kind of cancels out those carbs...& therefore they are not worth worrying about

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 16, 2013
at 03:12 AM

did not know that about the '15 rep' points, anyway i just +1 your question, which will give you another 10 rep points

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 16, 2013
at 03:11 AM

did not know that about the '15 rep' points, anyway i just +1 your question, which will give you 10 rep points

B7858e3ab0a136d9baa29d331743ec5f

(20)

on February 15, 2013
at 11:26 PM

I tried to click, but I don't have "15 reputation", whatever that means. Sorry!

B7858e3ab0a136d9baa29d331743ec5f

(20)

on February 15, 2013
at 11:25 PM

Haha I gotchu... *click* Lemme rephrase... non-starchy vegetables, are they included in that carb count? My carbs come strictly from vegetables, the starches being sweet potatoes with possible rice once in a while.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 15, 2013
at 11:09 PM

ps. PH tip, click the up arrow next to any answer you find helpful...wink wink

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 15, 2013
at 10:45 PM

"This amount is based only on the starchy carbs, right?"...i should clarify, your carb intake number will include all carbs, whatever the source, but PHD prefers 'safe starches'

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 15, 2013
at 10:37 PM

"This amount is based only on the starchy carbs, right?" yes, the recommended source should be "safe starches". tho they are open to 'glucose sources' as well for people who may have issues consuming safe starches. see chapter 10 for more

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 15, 2013
at 10:34 PM

"This amount is based only on the starchy carbs, right?" yes, the recommended source should be "safe starches". tho they are open to 'glucose sources' as well for ("unhealthy") people who may have issues consuming safe starches. see chapter 10 for more

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 15, 2013
at 10:33 PM

"This amount is based only on the starchy carbs, right?" yes, the recommended source should be "safe starches". tho they are open to 'glucose sources' as well for ("unhealthy") people who may have issues with consuming safe starches. see chapter 10 for more

B7858e3ab0a136d9baa29d331743ec5f

(20)

on February 15, 2013
at 10:22 PM

Thanks. I actually went back and read over that section multiple times and it's making a lot more sense now. I just have to adjust my fat intake based on activity level for the day, but keep my carb and protein intake constant every day. Now to get over that fear of eating 100-125g of carbs per day lol. This amount is based only on the starchy carbs, right?

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on February 15, 2013
at 10:03 PM

Uhhhh. Whaaaat? (extra letters purely to meet character count limit)

B7858e3ab0a136d9baa29d331743ec5f

(20)

on February 15, 2013
at 08:28 PM

It's just written for people in general. A lot of stuff, paleo and PHD, are either geared towards sedentary people with fat to lose or athletes. It's hard to get a solid answer for those of us that are overweight AND workout.

705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

(1013)

on February 15, 2013
at 07:37 PM

"People" have a huge range, but the book is pretty specific about ranges for both protein and carbs. Read the sections again.

705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

(1013)

on February 15, 2013
at 07:33 PM

[meta] Awful viglink post to an expired ebay listing. Was this replacing your link or a new link?

B7858e3ab0a136d9baa29d331743ec5f

(20)

on February 15, 2013
at 07:29 PM

I get what your're saying. I think my question then is... how do you determine your optimal amount of protein and carbs? There's such a huge range that people suggest, especially for protein.

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5 Answers

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0
68655ec9711d207d69a63ebf96b37573

on February 15, 2013
at 08:21 PM

When I upped my carbs, from 10% to 20%, I had to reduce my fat from 60% to 50% (as I wanted to keep my protein the same). Maybe this is why it recommends to cut back fat? Is it written for people already on a high fat low carb diet?

As to macros, I think it's very individual. But upping your carb intake to 20% seems like a good call at this stage. I find that eating high protein (30 or 35%) allows me to eat less overall calories, simply in terms of stomach volume (as fat doesn't take up that much room) and lets me lose weight, but that's just me. When I'm actively trying to drop pounds I'll eat 1300 cals/day when not exercising, 1600 cals/day if workout. And lots of veggies and water

B7858e3ab0a136d9baa29d331743ec5f

(20)

on February 15, 2013
at 08:28 PM

It's just written for people in general. A lot of stuff, paleo and PHD, are either geared towards sedentary people with fat to lose or athletes. It's hard to get a solid answer for those of us that are overweight AND workout.

best answer

1
543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 15, 2013
at 09:58 PM

Here's some quotes from the PHD web site,

This may surprise many readers, since we???re fat-friendly, but there should be no reduction in carb or protein consumption on weight loss diets. Calorie restriction should come out of fat.

.....

Remember that the body doesn???t have a significant store of carbs; the body???s total glycogen supply amounts to about a day???s needs. Nor does it have a store of protein, apart from skeletal muscle; and you don???t want to lose your muscle.

But it does have a large store of fat ??? those adipose cells that you want to shrink.

So to conserve muscle and reduce fat tissue, you have to eat your normal allotment of protein and carbs while restricting fat intake. As long as there is no serious dysfunction of adipose cells, they will release fat as needed to meet the body???s fat needs. And that???s what you want ??? fat being moved out of adipose cells to be burned.

So your calorie-restricted weight loss diet will be just as nourishing as your regular diet.
Only the source of the nourishing fats ??? adipose cells instead of food ??? will be different.

Source: Perfect Health Diet: Weight Loss Version

This stuff was written prior to the release of the current (2nd edition) book, but i think most of it still applies.

The carb ratio has increased a bit in the new book, so in the article linked Paul mentions,
"So if a typical daily intake is 400 carb calories and 300 protein calories, there???s really not much room to cut protein or carbs."

This would now read more like, "So if a typical daily intake is 500 carb calories and 300 protein calories, there???s really not much room to cut protein or carbs."

recent refs:
Comment 1
Comment 2

B7858e3ab0a136d9baa29d331743ec5f

(20)

on February 15, 2013
at 10:22 PM

Thanks. I actually went back and read over that section multiple times and it's making a lot more sense now. I just have to adjust my fat intake based on activity level for the day, but keep my carb and protein intake constant every day. Now to get over that fear of eating 100-125g of carbs per day lol. This amount is based only on the starchy carbs, right?

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 15, 2013
at 10:33 PM

"This amount is based only on the starchy carbs, right?" yes, the recommended source should be "safe starches". tho they are open to 'glucose sources' as well for ("unhealthy") people who may have issues with consuming safe starches. see chapter 10 for more

705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

(1013)

on February 16, 2013
at 07:40 AM

The amount of carbs is not constant every day if you are doing HIIT/weight training.

B7858e3ab0a136d9baa29d331743ec5f

(20)

on February 16, 2013
at 02:46 PM

@Daz... thanks for all the help. It just let me click the arrow this time :)

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 15, 2013
at 10:45 PM

"This amount is based only on the starchy carbs, right?"...i should clarify, your carb intake number will include all carbs, whatever the source, but PHD prefers 'safe starches'

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 15, 2013
at 10:34 PM

"This amount is based only on the starchy carbs, right?" yes, the recommended source should be "safe starches". tho they are open to 'glucose sources' as well for ("unhealthy") people who may have issues consuming safe starches. see chapter 10 for more

B7858e3ab0a136d9baa29d331743ec5f

(20)

on February 15, 2013
at 11:26 PM

I tried to click, but I don't have "15 reputation", whatever that means. Sorry!

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 15, 2013
at 11:09 PM

ps. PH tip, click the up arrow next to any answer you find helpful...wink wink

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 15, 2013
at 10:37 PM

"This amount is based only on the starchy carbs, right?" yes, the recommended source should be "safe starches". tho they are open to 'glucose sources' as well for people who may have issues consuming safe starches. see chapter 10 for more

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 16, 2013
at 03:12 AM

did not know that about the '15 rep' points, anyway i just +1 your question, which will give you another 10 rep points

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 16, 2013
at 03:11 AM

did not know that about the '15 rep' points, anyway i just +1 your question, which will give you 10 rep points

B7858e3ab0a136d9baa29d331743ec5f

(20)

on February 15, 2013
at 11:25 PM

Haha I gotchu... *click* Lemme rephrase... non-starchy vegetables, are they included in that carb count? My carbs come strictly from vegetables, the starches being sweet potatoes with possible rice once in a while.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 16, 2013
at 03:28 AM

& yep PHD does not include non-starch veggies in their carb count, on the basis that most non-starchy veggies have less than 10 carb grams per 100 grams & the gut itself requires/uses/burns more than that amount of carbs (glucose) to digest those veggies...so it kind of cancels out those carbs...& therefore they are not worth worrying about

0
75d65450b6ff0be7b969fb321f1200ac

(2506)

on February 15, 2013
at 09:08 PM

I think you have the right idea but I would go slightly lighter on carbs (80 grams) and slightly heavier on protein (120+ grams). You might want to take MCT oil or coconut oil too. A low-ish carb diet balanced with moderate protein intake is the way to go, especially for someone as active as you.

It sounds like you have thought things through and have the right attitude. Just execute on your plan and be patient.

_Lazza

0
D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on February 15, 2013
at 07:28 PM

If you're on Facebook, maybe you could post this on the Perfect Health Diet page, or on Paul Jaminet's page. Paul seems to stay away from strict Zone-like ratios in prescriptions, but does use ratios of things like human breastmilk, other mammalian absorption ratios, and fasting to determine what optimal might be for humans. He gives some roundabout targets but discusses what do adjust in certain circumstances.

Paul said get more calories all around when exercising. I think I recall Paul saying that in the needs of elite athletes also needing extra carbs.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on February 15, 2013
at 10:03 PM

Uhhhh. Whaaaat? (extra letters purely to meet character count limit)

705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

(1013)

on February 15, 2013
at 07:33 PM

[meta] Awful viglink post to an expired ebay listing. Was this replacing your link or a new link?

0
705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

on February 15, 2013
at 07:19 PM

Based on my understanding of PHD, there is not a "ratio". There's an optimal amount of protein, an optimal amount of carbohydrate, and then a minimum amount of the allowable fats.

Your weight loss goals would then influence the amount of fat you eat over the minimum.

Your activity goals may also an increase of carbohydrate though over the optimal level, I think they mention a number of grams per hour of exercise.

Personally I'm focusing on dialing in the carbs first and eating fat to satiety. Once I get the carbs dialed in I'll start restricting fat if I'm not seeing the results I want.

B7858e3ab0a136d9baa29d331743ec5f

(20)

on February 15, 2013
at 07:29 PM

I get what your're saying. I think my question then is... how do you determine your optimal amount of protein and carbs? There's such a huge range that people suggest, especially for protein.

705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

(1013)

on February 15, 2013
at 07:37 PM

"People" have a huge range, but the book is pretty specific about ranges for both protein and carbs. Read the sections again.

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