0

votes

Have you found that more fat and less protein works better for you?

Answered on December 27, 2013
Created December 26, 2013 at 9:30 PM

A month or so ago I shifted my diet from lots of protein to lots of fat and "adequate" protein ala Perfect Health Diet. I don't go overboard with carbs but don't shun rice or potatoes.

Since upping my fat (cooking everything with coconut oil and adding a couple of tablespoons of MCT oil to many dishes) and cutting protein to 8 or 10 ounces a day I've had these benefits:

  1. Afternoon fatigue which I've had for several years which would require me to take a nap, ever since I did a 6-month zero carb diet is GONE.
  2. I pee less often with more fat than with lots of protein. And, I don't have protein breath
  3. At any time of the day I used to get fatigued when I'd eat fatty food. No more. I think that upping my consumption of coconut oil has helped because the liver doesn't need to process coconut oil as it does animal fats.
  4. I don't overeat fat but I definitely can easily overeat on protein. It's easy for me to eat a pound of steak in a sitting and then get fatigued.
  5. Daily poops are easy and quick. With more protein I'm sometimes constipated.
  6. I can easily skip meals and not be hungry. I can, with no effort, do 16 or 18 hours of intermittent fasting, with no blood sugar issues. Even if I have a potato or half a pound of cooked rice with a meal I can still go for a long time on the fuel from the adequate protein and plenty of fat. I could never do intermittent fasting before.
  7. Less congestion.
I'm curious to know if any of you have experienced benefits from shifting your fuel mix to higher fat?

Note that I'm not trying to do a ketogenic diet. My body is just doing well with this fuel mix.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on December 27, 2013
at 06:06 PM

@Matt 11See my answer below, too long for the comment field!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on December 27, 2013
at 03:56 PM

Since protein-to-glucose road is rough and inefficient, why consume 70-80 grams of protein when 50 grams of starch/sugar will do?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on December 27, 2013
at 03:54 PM

That's why I mentioned that you sacrifice dietary protein for your glucose requirements. Why not consume the very modest carbohydrate load that is "essential" for bodily functions? The average normal person has no need for ketosis, the average overweight person has no need for ketosis to lose weight either.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on December 27, 2013
at 03:21 PM

Methinks you need to read Peter Attia's blog or hang out on the zero carber forums sometime, Matt. It's easy to be in ketosis with sufficient fat intake without losing muscle mass as long as protein intake is sufficient Carbs aren't a requirement.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on December 27, 2013
at 03:11 PM

Oh, and no need to be in ketosis, of course! Peter at Hyperlipid goes by Optimal Diet guidelines, which are just out of ketosis. That said, Everyone varies and some folk can be in ketosis with 100 gm carbs.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on December 27, 2013
at 03:07 PM

Oh and check out this post with links to blogs of like-minded folk:

http://caloriesproper.com/?p=3386

4610451431ec7155c87a5698be682a95

(1122)

on December 27, 2013
at 03:20 AM

"I should add that part of my reason for posting this question is to get folks to think that high protein isn't the answer to everything."
You posted this. It sounds like an agenda. HFLC is not a new way of thinking.

35b2cb4d450e5288895c255dfdfff35d

(5828)

on December 26, 2013
at 11:10 PM

I'm posting the question because I want to know if I'm an outlier or not. A common paleo thought form is that you can eat all the meat you want and it didn't work in my case. Maybe my kidneys are stressed. Maybe my digestion is. Maybe I'm someone who does better with high fat. Maybe I'm one of many people who do well with high fat.

p.s. Thinking a lot about it, in my opinion, is less relevant than what works for you. I'm glad you found a fuel mix that works for you.

35b2cb4d450e5288895c255dfdfff35d

(5828)

on December 26, 2013
at 09:31 PM

I should add that part of my reason for posting this question is to get folks to think that high protein isn't the answer to everything.

  • 35b2cb4d450e5288895c255dfdfff35d

    asked by

    (5828)
  • Views
    1.9K
  • Last Activity
    1668D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

6 Answers

0
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on December 27, 2013
at 06:01 PM

Comment in reply to Matt 11: Because some of us do better with lower carbs. I'm not epileptic or diabetic, but I feel 1000% better in ketosis. No bloating or carb cravings and steady energy. Intermittent fasting is a breeze now.

At 70-100 gm carbs while moderately active (walking 1-2 hours daily, gardening, dancing, lifting twice a week for 1/2 hour), I struggled.

Personally, I can eat 40-50 gm carbs per day and stay in ketosis, as long as I keep my protein moderate (about 60 gm for me.) and am active that day. Sol may actually be in ketosis even with his higher carbs if he is more active and depleting his glycogen. Peter Attia explores this possibility in this post.

Ketone-adaptation is another animal altogether, beyond the fat-adaptation that most Primal/Paleo folks seek. I didn't know this when I first went low carb and kept myself just out of ketosis and was pretty miserable when lifting. It took me most of 2 months to keto-adapt and now I am enjoying lifting and being a lot more active again.

Read Peter Attia's posts on Ketosis here and here for the science. Or go to the "bible" and read Phinney and Volek's book.

I thrive now that I am keto-adapted. Once keto-adapted, the body's glucose requirements are even lower.

0
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on December 27, 2013
at 03:01 PM

I definitely do better with high fat, Sol. When I tried going vlc after 3months Primal, I was eating protein heavy and feeling crappy. My more recent keto experiment has been 80% fat and I feel and look great and have much more energy.

Peter Attia's blog may be helpful, as well as Jimmy Moore's recent year-long nutritional ketosis experiment. On my ipad, so I will let you google the links!

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on December 27, 2013
at 03:07 PM

Oh and check out this post with links to blogs of like-minded folk:

http://caloriesproper.com/?p=3386

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on December 27, 2013
at 03:11 PM

Oh, and no need to be in ketosis, of course! Peter at Hyperlipid goes by Optimal Diet guidelines, which are just out of ketosis. That said, Everyone varies and some folk can be in ketosis with 100 gm carbs.

0
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on December 27, 2013
at 02:26 PM

Protein is not a good energy source. It's very "dirty" as you have to remove the nitrogen which produces ammonia/urea. A moderate protein level is superior (even those putting on lean mass are consuming well in excess of what is necessary for growth). Baseline is somewhere between 50-80 grams per day. An ounce of lean mass only has 6 grams of protein in it. If you put on an ounce of lean mass per day (2 pounds lean mass gain per month) and your efficiency is only 20% (I don't know how efficient the human body is, this is purely a guess), that's only 30 grams of extra protein needed for lean mass gain (in addition to caloric excess).

But, your carbohydrate levels are low, so you're sacrificing lean mass and dietary protein to produce the essential glucose your body requires. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but not good either. Contrary to what ketogenic dieters advocate, there is an essential level of carbohydrate in the diet that protects against protein catabolism and lean mass loss. It's a very modest level of carbohydrate, really just enough to prevent ketosis: 50-75 grams or so.

As you can see, I think parentheses are ubercool and use them often (I probably should use commas or semicolons more!)

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on December 27, 2013
at 03:21 PM

Methinks you need to read Peter Attia's blog or hang out on the zero carber forums sometime, Matt. It's easy to be in ketosis with sufficient fat intake without losing muscle mass as long as protein intake is sufficient Carbs aren't a requirement.

0
Medium avatar

(1536)

on December 27, 2013
at 12:41 PM

I don't maintain the same macronutrient levels on a day to day basis. Active days I'm rocking about a 60% carb, 20% fat, 20% protein. On my sedentary days I keep the carbs around 30-40, the protein around 30, and the fat around 30 as well. If there is going to be a string of days where I know I'm not going to be active I'll dip the carbs lower. Seems to work a lot better than maintaining the same macro levels day in and day out. I can say that on the days where I am not doing anything active, the higher fat and less protein seems to be the ticket. And as of lately I've been having an aversion to protein. I don't really get it, but I'm listening to my body for now.

0
73405829e4cd62de86d52ef5c557dc42

on December 27, 2013
at 12:35 AM

Yes. I have just started experimenting with keto version of paleo and using 3 tablespoons of MCT oil per day and around 65-70% fat/10% carb/20-25% protein. I've only been doing this for a week but I notice much more energy and cognitive ability and less hunger. I do bulletproof coffee in the morning with 2 tbs kerrygold and 2 tbs mct. I used to drink coffee all day but now I don't after 12pm and some days I just have the one bulletproof coffee and no other coffee and don't get the afternoon crash. Over the weekend I went on a 6 mile hike and didn't eat until 4pm after the hike and I was never hungry or felt weak

0
4610451431ec7155c87a5698be682a95

(1122)

on December 26, 2013
at 10:57 PM

not sure why you're posting the question. I function much better on high protein/lower fat, and I've thought a lot about it....

4610451431ec7155c87a5698be682a95

(1122)

on December 27, 2013
at 03:20 AM

"I should add that part of my reason for posting this question is to get folks to think that high protein isn't the answer to everything."
You posted this. It sounds like an agenda. HFLC is not a new way of thinking.

35b2cb4d450e5288895c255dfdfff35d

(5828)

on December 26, 2013
at 11:10 PM

I'm posting the question because I want to know if I'm an outlier or not. A common paleo thought form is that you can eat all the meat you want and it didn't work in my case. Maybe my kidneys are stressed. Maybe my digestion is. Maybe I'm someone who does better with high fat. Maybe I'm one of many people who do well with high fat.

p.s. Thinking a lot about it, in my opinion, is less relevant than what works for you. I'm glad you found a fuel mix that works for you.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!