9

votes

What will it take to get the paleo movement to a tipping point?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created June 24, 2011 at 9:36 PM

There are a million paleo oriented blogs out there, some great forums and excellent podcasters. Paleo is also throwing up some great and original thinkers, paleo doctors/MDs and paleoanthropologists.

For me, one of the first signs of a mature movement is splintering, and we see that in the paleosphere. We also have Ghandi's guide ???First, they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.???, from which we can estimate that paleo is at stage 3!

But maturation makes me think of a maximal point - and surely paleo has not peaked yet? Will we reach stage 4? Have we hit a tipping point yet and if not what will it take to make paleo 'tip'?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on July 25, 2011
at 05:39 PM

We can dream of a utopia but I see inward paths toward it and it does involve profitability b/c we live in a capitalistic society. Demand brings about trade which brings about societal and cultural changes. This happens even among bacteria... I started going to this awesome restaurant (even among SF foodies) called Gather out in Berkeley, CA -- they are wildly successful serving up grassfed, free range beef (Prather and other ranches) and even offer more than one kind of Kombucha (House which apparently is lower in sugar). Things are changing...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on July 25, 2011
at 05:32 PM

*clap clap* WELL SAID.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on June 28, 2011
at 06:54 PM

I didn't like Blink though...it felt as if he were talking to me like he thought I was a 5th grader.

135ea7e598ac8517e26ac2896309e776

(161)

on June 28, 2011
at 05:51 PM

It wouldn't necessarily be to our advantage if the paleo movement were to become mainstream. Commodity prices will rise anyway due to emerging markets in China, etc and more meat consumption would just add to it. I like my meat cheap :) It's selfish but 6 billion ppl living a paleoish lifestyle are not something I would like to see happen. It might not even be sustainable. Isn't this the supposed reason for the strong endorsement of processed and grain based foods?

1cab39a768a8c6fbb82916d01923e2cd

(25)

on June 27, 2011
at 08:43 PM

good point re conventional 'wisdom'

1cab39a768a8c6fbb82916d01923e2cd

(25)

on June 27, 2011
at 08:42 PM

It seems that urban agriculture is becoming less and less subversive, with community gardens and chicken raising, etc. And none of this is focused on grains. The funny thing is that if people were to decide that Mark Sisson's ideas regarding movement were their's, they could do move 3-5 hours, lift heavy things and sprint, while gardening alone.

306aa57660d911781231f8090c2a5619

(3808)

on June 25, 2011
at 10:17 PM

Drew Carey's diet seems roughly paleo, though as far as I know he hasn't actually called it Paleo, and it seems he's eating low-fat as well. In any case, he credits a no-grain diet and exercise for his dramatic weight loss.

627cf3f5d1ddfb4c2f4c96169420f55f

(1626)

on June 25, 2011
at 10:13 PM

Part of the primal lifestyle is the 80/20 rule and realizing that you do not have to be so damn strict!

627cf3f5d1ddfb4c2f4c96169420f55f

(1626)

on June 25, 2011
at 10:11 PM

I disagree 100%. I do realize that because I am in the community its different. But the influence that people like myself are having is huge. It's close. Believe me. I am doing everything I possibly can to help making primal living easy. Its getting out their. And its more too about the fact that more grass-fed beef is becoming available. The barefoot trend continues to pick up. People now know sunlight is actually good for us. All of these sub factors are parts of the primal lifestyle. People will eventually put it all together and think... oh! That's a primal/paleo lifestyle! Duh!!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 25, 2011
at 10:01 PM

Yeah I think growing and cooking are subversive in this culture and if that is encouraged paleo might be more and more acceptable to more. Also the urban homesteading and farm to table buying clubs make meat very trendy. Just need to make grains less so.

3dc940ac9be21e45cf83207814c8cd46

(544)

on June 25, 2011
at 02:20 PM

Bambam, you've hit the proverbial nail on the head here.You have captured the essence of the giant net into which we all have been placed to ensure that we are contained, regardless of occasional attempts (like paleo) to regain a healthy and wholesome relationship with the worlds.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 25, 2011
at 02:33 AM

Send me one of yours and I will consider it ;)

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on June 25, 2011
at 02:20 AM

Which is too bad because I would love to stop having to hear crap about "heart healthy veggie oils" all the time.

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on June 25, 2011
at 02:13 AM

I actually don't think it is on the verge of going mainstream. I think when you spend a large amount of time in online communities that are either explicitly devoted to Paleo or health/fitness in general it's easy to get that impression because of course we talk about it so much and are caught up in it. But in the national population, across all demographics, I really don't think it's at the stage you think it is yet.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 25, 2011
at 02:01 AM

A photo of you in a sports bra just might do it!

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on June 25, 2011
at 01:26 AM

Lol, define "the good news"

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on June 25, 2011
at 01:11 AM

hes one of my most favorite brains.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 25, 2011
at 01:11 AM

How do I join the Torso Chicks movement? It is a trend that I definitely want to support and encourage!

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on June 25, 2011
at 01:11 AM

very interesting!!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 25, 2011
at 12:41 AM

Well, I don' know. Diet & health stuff is my hobby - lame, but I'm wrapped up in it tight. BTW You're welcome for the Torso Chicks movement. I am attempting to make Torso Chicks a powerful force on Paleo Hacks - or at least nonsensical fun.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 25, 2011
at 12:32 AM

And meredith, I like your torso a lot, too!!!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 25, 2011
at 12:32 AM

Yes, I think that is an **EXCELLENT** point meredith. We DON'T live in the same environment as H-Gs. We know that we are chronically stressed in comparison with our H-G ancestors. So, indeed, shouldn't we respond differently? I mean we need to do something to curb the cortisol spikes/stress and just telling ourselve to "chill out" doesn't always work. Most of us can't take a vacation from civilization too long, can we? ANYWAY, I THINK THAT YOU HAVE COME UP WITH THE BEST PHRASE YET to describe what we should be doing: eating to match (or adapt to) our environment! Brilliant! Seriously.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 25, 2011
at 12:21 AM

Maybe Paleo is eating to match your environment. A diet that matches and attenuates the stresses placed on the body. Considering the various and ubiquitous stresses today, that would be a very different diet than one of a caveman I think. Anyway, nice torso.

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13 Answers

7
226b10cbb6b1d3530b00d2d84a2dc86e

(3313)

on June 25, 2011
at 12:43 AM

Celebrity endorsement of scientology didn't help their cause. Naysayers used Cruise and Travolta to mock that movement.

The Paleo lifestyle calls into question the whole organization of our civilization which in effect threatens the ruling class that has arranged and perpetuated this economy, imbalances and all.

Too many of their dollars are at stake, food corps dollars, insurance co. dollars, pharmaceutical industry dollars. The food companies own vast tracs of acreage throughout the United states. What they are selling and getting subsidies to grow amounts to hundreds of billions in capital every year and very little of it meets the standards set by advocates of the paleo diet.

They have sponsored and manipulated research, bought up scientific journals, funded accredited schools so they can control the curriculum and indoctrinate an army of future MD's, RD's and other medical professionals. If you play the game, they can still marginalize you despite your creds. The majority of trained "experts" in science and medicine will swarm and dogpile on you to vindicate their education. Giant food corporations can hide behind bad research and stake claims on the scientific authenticity of every article or finding large and small despite the fact that so much of what they pump into the mainstream media is so unscientific in so many ways. They can bury your work and continue to disseminate bad info. through their media channels.

We have been dreaming of a new way of life for generations, one where we have more free time more resources and greater health. We have always valued self-sufficiency and independence yet we remain complacent when it comes to growing our own food and investing in local communities.

And they control science.

And people believe that facts are facts and all science, proven.

Science will never be seen as a body of knowledge that is constantly changing, adapting and in flux.

It is the lynchpin of the establishment.

They use it to get what they want and keep what they hoarded.

3dc940ac9be21e45cf83207814c8cd46

(544)

on June 25, 2011
at 02:20 PM

Bambam, you've hit the proverbial nail on the head here.You have captured the essence of the giant net into which we all have been placed to ensure that we are contained, regardless of occasional attempts (like paleo) to regain a healthy and wholesome relationship with the worlds.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on July 25, 2011
at 05:39 PM

We can dream of a utopia but I see inward paths toward it and it does involve profitability b/c we live in a capitalistic society. Demand brings about trade which brings about societal and cultural changes. This happens even among bacteria... I started going to this awesome restaurant (even among SF foodies) called Gather out in Berkeley, CA -- they are wildly successful serving up grassfed, free range beef (Prather and other ranches) and even offer more than one kind of Kombucha (House which apparently is lower in sugar). Things are changing...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on July 25, 2011
at 05:32 PM

*clap clap* WELL SAID.

7
D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on June 24, 2011
at 10:02 PM

Malcolm Gladwell will need to announce that he's decided to go paleo.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on June 25, 2011
at 01:11 AM

hes one of my most favorite brains.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on June 28, 2011
at 06:54 PM

I didn't like Blink though...it felt as if he were talking to me like he thought I was a 5th grader.

2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 25, 2011
at 12:03 AM

First of all, ask yourself, "When do diets usually go mainstream?" They go mainstream when they ARE TRENDY.

You see. I think the assumption is that Paleolithic Diet will go mainstream because of its effectiveness. That's just not the way diets go mainstream. They go mainstream by virtue of their marketability (that's not to say that they don't have some underlying value). Yes, I agree that the way it will most likely happen is some actor/actress will tout it. Then all of Hollywood will take it up. It will become even more trendy than it already is. Of course, none of this might happen.

Already Paleo has a "hook" (I think that's what you call it). The whole image of a Caveman excites the imagination of a post-modern audience who has (understandably) become jaded to a computerized, alienated, dead world...in which they daily become more like the computers they operate.

Now the problem for Paleo is that it is losing that hook, I believe. Many of us on here have already seen that we do not do well on a strict Paleo diet (or what we imagine that diet to be). The whole idea of imitating our Paleolithic ancestors is losing the appeal it once had. So Paleo is becoming more of a loose orientation...a general direction....a starting point. In the few months I have been on Paleohacks, fewer people are defending their dietary choices based upon what "Grok" did. In my opinion, that's a good thing. However, I don't know if Paleo is as appealing without its Grok mascot.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 25, 2011
at 12:32 AM

And meredith, I like your torso a lot, too!!!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 25, 2011
at 12:32 AM

Yes, I think that is an **EXCELLENT** point meredith. We DON'T live in the same environment as H-Gs. We know that we are chronically stressed in comparison with our H-G ancestors. So, indeed, shouldn't we respond differently? I mean we need to do something to curb the cortisol spikes/stress and just telling ourselve to "chill out" doesn't always work. Most of us can't take a vacation from civilization too long, can we? ANYWAY, I THINK THAT YOU HAVE COME UP WITH THE BEST PHRASE YET to describe what we should be doing: eating to match (or adapt to) our environment! Brilliant! Seriously.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 25, 2011
at 01:11 AM

How do I join the Torso Chicks movement? It is a trend that I definitely want to support and encourage!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 25, 2011
at 12:21 AM

Maybe Paleo is eating to match your environment. A diet that matches and attenuates the stresses placed on the body. Considering the various and ubiquitous stresses today, that would be a very different diet than one of a caveman I think. Anyway, nice torso.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 25, 2011
at 02:33 AM

Send me one of yours and I will consider it ;)

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 25, 2011
at 02:01 AM

A photo of you in a sports bra just might do it!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 25, 2011
at 12:41 AM

Well, I don' know. Diet & health stuff is my hobby - lame, but I'm wrapped up in it tight. BTW You're welcome for the Torso Chicks movement. I am attempting to make Torso Chicks a powerful force on Paleo Hacks - or at least nonsensical fun.

627cf3f5d1ddfb4c2f4c96169420f55f

(1626)

on June 25, 2011
at 10:13 PM

Part of the primal lifestyle is the 80/20 rule and realizing that you do not have to be so damn strict!

1
F040035b2008ec80b205481afbd39ad4

on June 25, 2011
at 07:14 PM

One thing that occurs to me is that there is a chicken and egg situation. CW will not change until we see a decline in its profitability, and paleo seems unlikely to tip until it is profitable. Adam Smith tells us this...

We are seeing some profitability for paleo at a commercial level; just think of Weightwatchers' latest diet designed to capitalise on LC appeal, and of the footwear manufactureres now selling overpiced footwear advertised as 'barefoot'.

But Paleo goes against centralised authoritarianism - be it from established political, agricultural, pharmaceutical, and medical sources.

Furthermore, the food side of things is way more complex than offering freaky footwear. I consider paleo to be a grass roots movement with an agenda on the food-side of things rooted in buying local, fresh produce that is grown in a sustainable way, devoid of many 'modern synthetic chemical drivers and practices' used to boost productivity at the expense of sustainability.

This interpretation of paleo encourages a localised/dispersed system of ownership of the means of production which is diametrically opposite the centralised control we see in modern 'industrial agriculture'.

Looking at paleo from this angle, can the conventional (political and agricultural) powers EVER really take control of it? And if the answer to this is "no", if they cannot own or control it, then surely we face serious opposition to the 'tip'?

1
89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e

(10299)

on June 25, 2011
at 08:15 AM

Scarlett Johansson! Definitely! I would like to inform her on the details of a paleo diet, be her coach and trainer, her support in difficult times. And then she would feel great (and no doubt thank me a lot). She's already been spotted with Vibram Five Fingers, so that's a good start.

In case this would not work, it will at least have been worth the try ;)

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 25, 2011
at 03:16 AM

It's not a movement. Clear and simple Sick people are going to cure themselves from Paleo internet pages. Then eventually going to be main stream knowledge, then it's going to be wild and crazy what happens after that.

1
Ffc7e0ecad8e8831b528c5d4921377cc

(942)

on June 25, 2011
at 03:05 AM

I think the tipping point will be when conventional wisdom about grains, fat, etc. stops being conventional wisdom. Not everyone will be motivated by the caveman image. That doesn't matter.

1cab39a768a8c6fbb82916d01923e2cd

(25)

on June 27, 2011
at 08:43 PM

good point re conventional 'wisdom'

1
1cab39a768a8c6fbb82916d01923e2cd

on June 25, 2011
at 12:22 AM

Well, I'm not a celebrity but I am overweight so here goes..first about paleo as a movement, then, my 2 cents about what can be done about it.

1. I find it interesting to think of paleo as a movement, rather than diet or lifestyle only. UNESCO uses the term 'lifeway' to describe relationship between the inner self and the world holistically. Paleo seems to be myriad expressions of lifeways that both interconnect with and vary from one another. The connections are based in principles and health research surrounding eating ancestral foods, and also the need to get away from highly-processed food items, and the mega-businesses set up to semmingly make life easier for consumers or, to convince us we are inadequate. To be 'it'we need a lot of things, we need comfort, we need to stay in because of danger, and we need providing food for our families to be easy. Fortunately, paleo offers an antidote to contemporary popular culture with a fresh, alternative conceptual framework for thinking about being and thriving in the world.

Is it a movement? I'd say, it may be stirring into one. I do have concerns to not alienate people, like my neighbours:). I live in an agricultural area. Friends grow grain; most of these are organic producers.

2. I also find it interesting to think about paleo foods and moving like Grok (character in Primal Blueprint). Most people up to the second world war ate or had ready access to local, organic foods, where beef was all pasture-fed, chickens scratched around in the grass and dirt, and so on. There is a real role for seniors with stories and knowledge to share. Especially rural people lived Grok's life, and remained slim and fit. Anyone with a bit of a yard or containers for dirt can grow even a few things. We can encourage urban agriculture and become more locally self-sufficient, all those great ideas people have. It makes sense for enough paleo people to take up gardening so that others can barter or pay.

To think about paleo as a movement, to me is describing some sort of collectivity and collaboration. We don't need to go far back in history to learn about the healthy eating and moving lifeway for which paleos are striving.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 25, 2011
at 10:01 PM

Yeah I think growing and cooking are subversive in this culture and if that is encouraged paleo might be more and more acceptable to more. Also the urban homesteading and farm to table buying clubs make meat very trendy. Just need to make grains less so.

1cab39a768a8c6fbb82916d01923e2cd

(25)

on June 27, 2011
at 08:42 PM

It seems that urban agriculture is becoming less and less subversive, with community gardens and chicken raising, etc. And none of this is focused on grains. The funny thing is that if people were to decide that Mark Sisson's ideas regarding movement were their's, they could do move 3-5 hours, lift heavy things and sprint, while gardening alone.

1
627cf3f5d1ddfb4c2f4c96169420f55f

on June 24, 2011
at 11:27 PM

Paleo is on the verge of going mainstream. I have sensed this for the past few months and then my thoughts were confirmed with Robb Wolf's latest podcast. From the 10-20 minute time frame he went off about how close primal/paleo is to going mainstream.

It's setup perfectly and we all know that its not any fad. Its how we have lived for tens of thousands of years so how could it not go mainstream? How could it not take off? It is taking off but the growth is exponentially. Living as a caveman and helping others do the same is my profession - just like Robb, Mark, etc. I just do it in a different way.

I have insane goals for the primal community. Absolutely insane. The community is incredible.

Primal Con changed my life completely. It made me realize how important community is. I see newbies on my blog on a daily basis. The amount of paleo/primal books is amazing and the sales rank is astonishing.

It's oh so close. It's kind of here. Just not on the good news yet. Keep being patient!

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on June 25, 2011
at 01:26 AM

Lol, define "the good news"

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on June 25, 2011
at 02:13 AM

I actually don't think it is on the verge of going mainstream. I think when you spend a large amount of time in online communities that are either explicitly devoted to Paleo or health/fitness in general it's easy to get that impression because of course we talk about it so much and are caught up in it. But in the national population, across all demographics, I really don't think it's at the stage you think it is yet.

627cf3f5d1ddfb4c2f4c96169420f55f

(1626)

on June 25, 2011
at 10:11 PM

I disagree 100%. I do realize that because I am in the community its different. But the influence that people like myself are having is huge. It's close. Believe me. I am doing everything I possibly can to help making primal living easy. Its getting out their. And its more too about the fact that more grass-fed beef is becoming available. The barefoot trend continues to pick up. People now know sunlight is actually good for us. All of these sub factors are parts of the primal lifestyle. People will eventually put it all together and think... oh! That's a primal/paleo lifestyle! Duh!!

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on June 25, 2011
at 02:20 AM

Which is too bad because I would love to stop having to hear crap about "heart healthy veggie oils" all the time.

1
B1859f696e88d25460a6b8a333412ea3

on June 24, 2011
at 10:30 PM

Not an answer, but an observation.

Interesting Google Trends comparing Paleo diet with some common diet terms.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=paleo+diet%2C+paleo%2C+atkins+diet%2C+south+beach+diet&ctab=0&geo=us&geor=all&date=all&sort=0

It's interesting to play around with limiting to certain countries (Switzerland ranks HIGH on Paleo Diet!) and the other options.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on June 25, 2011
at 01:11 AM

very interesting!!

0
7e36094a0f7a2fbad24290225405220b

(2064)

on June 25, 2011
at 06:33 PM

If Novak Djokovic were to win Wimbledon and tell everyone about his diet, that would certainly help. http://www.dietdoctor.com/?x=0&y=0&s=djokovic

0
C2502365891cbcc8af2d1cf1d7b0e9fc

(2437)

on June 24, 2011
at 10:38 PM

Some random thoughts:

Perhaps never

Or it might need a well known but overweight celebrity to endorse it.

306aa57660d911781231f8090c2a5619

(3808)

on June 25, 2011
at 10:17 PM

Drew Carey's diet seems roughly paleo, though as far as I know he hasn't actually called it Paleo, and it seems he's eating low-fat as well. In any case, he credits a no-grain diet and exercise for his dramatic weight loss.

0
8dbe73235f73c615f20d3d0f34b4852a

(1365)

on June 24, 2011
at 10:00 PM

I've heard a movement will really take hold if you get the square root of the population on board. Not sure quite how valid that is for extremely large groups, though.

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