3

votes

What implications does a mitochondrial paradigm Of metabolic and degenerative disease have for paleo'ers?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created March 26, 2013 at 1:27 AM

There is a theory that Fucked up mitochondria are behind degenerative and metabolic diseases of modern day civilizations.

The variation in the individual and regional predisposition to degenerative diseases and cancer may result from the interaction of modern dietary caloric intake and ancient mitochondrial genetic polymorphisms. Therefore the mitochondria provide a direct link between our environment and our genes and the mtDNA variants that permitted our forbears to energetically adapt to their ancestral homes are influencing our health today.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2821041/

Will this change how you approach paleo from a diet or exercise perspective?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on June 09, 2013
at 12:53 PM

"As well as sufficient stress on muscles to ensure that mitochondrial atrophy doesn't occur." What would you consider sufficient stress?

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 26, 2013
at 04:18 AM

The role of macroautophagy in the ageing process, anti-ageing intervention and age-associated diseases meditate on this http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S1357272504002006-gr5.gif http://morelife.org/references/full_papers/15325580.pdf

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 26, 2013
at 04:08 AM

thats where all the psychedelic stuff occcurs.. :)

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 26, 2013
at 03:59 AM

1)more is more... 2)less is more... or 3)having just enough

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 26, 2013
at 03:48 AM

how do autophagy and atrophy differ? or are they same ..? or are they opposite..? or does one lead to the other.. and how am i supposed to get to sleep with all these questions in my brain.. SOON im gonna BillBailey right out..!!!!!!!!! hehe jk..:) IM GONna have to take.. tripple my magnesium ! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21567392 (i read the title :) ) remember tht study when they starved the mice...? and they got more gorgeous and younger looking..:) jaminets ( i know you disagree with alot of their recommendation) but their experimenting with protein restriction to cause autophagy

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 26, 2013
at 03:39 AM

No but i will...i think these telomeres and autophagy is a big key. Oh so that might be one of the reasons he reommends the seafood mollusks. hehe yeah C.T. brrrr..i watched that other guy with the blog sitting in his outdoor freezing cold bathtub. And remmeber the Kobe article!! oh yeah and then there was your Dr with his water therapies. Pearls of wisdoms interspersed within the insanity everywhere.All parts of the puzzle. Im kinda bummed i missed out on when J.K. used to be around more. You were around for his zenith on PH huh...Seems hes quiet now(least on here )

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on March 26, 2013
at 03:27 AM

Taurine (found much more abundantly in seafood). I think he's smart with the CT thing, but he's to obsessed with it. CT will work for some people, but he needs to chill the fuck out with those ice baths. He's likely right about the importance of hydration and that fluoridated water causes dehydration at a cellular level and in the bones even.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on March 26, 2013
at 03:22 AM

Have you read the hands down ultimate hack question by me? I was hellbent sure than insulin sensitivity was said ultimate hack. I was gungho on increasing muscular insulin sensitivity (muscle mass) and performing HIIT. While I still support both those things I've come to realize health on a cellular level (instead of just hormonal). I didn't know shit about mitochondria until jack came out with the mitochondrial rx. So while I think jack is losing his way, I have to give him some props and the points of his I agree on are the importance of seafood for supplying things like iodine, omega 3s,

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 26, 2013
at 03:17 AM

oh yeah ..:) u shud start one..why not

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 26, 2013
at 03:13 AM

lol..yeah ok-please i can barely get through a paragraph of yours once i start seeing all those abbrevs. please decipher it alllllll!!! Which recommendations of J.K. u mean? The C.T..> or the food pyramid based on seafoods.?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on March 26, 2013
at 03:12 AM

Yea, it's a long article but seems to have a little bit for everyone in it.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on March 26, 2013
at 02:58 AM

I'll show you mine since you showed me yours: http://www.trnres.com/ebook/uploads/elidrissicontent/T_13449431438%20El%20Idrissi%208.pdf . I like a lot of JK's stuff, but he's going to extremes by recommending 80+% calories from fat and avoiding emfs at all costs. I'm a CSC major in Atlanta so as much as I like the ocean, some of the stuff he recommends is just so batshit extreme it leaves me hanging. I wish there were more bloggers on the subject though. I may just have to start one myself.

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 26, 2013
at 02:39 AM

heres more..:) after youve read through the above papers peruse this one too..then come back and translate all of it http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.0050110 ..all those abbreviations drive me nuts. It has to do with Autophagy ..i have changed my protein intake and also do IF..in hopes of doing something ummmm...either lengthening or shortening or coupling my telomeres..:) Seriously though this is the kind of paper that J.K. must get his ideas/theories from.. ya think?

  • Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

    asked by

    (10989)
  • Views
    1.1K
  • Last Activity
    1406D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

3 Answers

best answer

2
06ca9c524c28bc3fba95d4d90f8f43c6

on March 26, 2013
at 03:04 AM

I was intrigued by the references to climate and seasonality and the implications of periodically restricting calories . I need to block out some time for this. It's definitely not a quick or easy read. Here are some quick highlights that stuck out:

An important role of mitochondrial ROS production in aging and degenerative diseases is congruent with the life-extending capacity of caloric restriction (69, 126, 127, 130, 204). Reduction of available calories will starve the mitochondrial ETC for electrons, thus reducing ROS and protecting the mitochondria and mtDNAs. Caloric restriction can be achieved by direct dietary restriction or by blocking the retention of excess calories. This may explain why mice in which the insulin receptor gene was inactivated in adiposities had an 18% increase in life span

When plant calories are abundant and consumed, the elevated serum glucose is detected by the energy-sensing pancreatic ?? cells, which respond by secreting insulin into the blood stream. The insulin signal then informs the energy-utilizing heart and muscle tissues to down-regulate mitochondrial energy utilization, since food-seeking behavior is less pressing. It also informs the energy-storing WAT and BAT tissues to store the excess calories as fat for when the season changes and plant calories again become limiting. When plant calories do become limited, insulin secretion declines and the pancreatic ?? cells secrete glucagon. These low blood sugar hormonal signals inform the energy-utilization tissues to up-regulate the mitochondrial OXPHOS system, thus enhancing food-seeking capacity. They also mobilize the energy-storage tissues to transfer the stored triglycerides into the blood to fuel the increased mitochondria OXPHOS

Plenty of other stuff in there as well!

-Matt
PhysiqueRescue.com

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on March 26, 2013
at 03:12 AM

Yea, it's a long article but seems to have a little bit for everyone in it.

3
Medium avatar

on March 26, 2013
at 03:36 AM

I think caloric restriction is a dead-end and that a valid approach is simply to ensure that one has a sufficient intake of all necessary mitochondrial co-factors (magnesium, ubiquinone, zinc, iron, carnosine, carnitine, niacin etc.) as well as sufficient stress on muscles to ensure that mitochondrial atrophy doesn't occur.

The "have no essential nutrient insufficiencies and go outside" method solves basically everything.

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 26, 2013
at 03:59 AM

1)more is more... 2)less is more... or 3)having just enough

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 26, 2013
at 03:48 AM

how do autophagy and atrophy differ? or are they same ..? or are they opposite..? or does one lead to the other.. and how am i supposed to get to sleep with all these questions in my brain.. SOON im gonna BillBailey right out..!!!!!!!!! hehe jk..:) IM GONna have to take.. tripple my magnesium ! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21567392 (i read the title :) ) remember tht study when they starved the mice...? and they got more gorgeous and younger looking..:) jaminets ( i know you disagree with alot of their recommendation) but their experimenting with protein restriction to cause autophagy

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on June 09, 2013
at 12:53 PM

"As well as sufficient stress on muscles to ensure that mitochondrial atrophy doesn't occur." What would you consider sufficient stress?

1
24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on March 26, 2013
at 04:06 AM

It might change my paradigm were I able to follow such studies.

But I see the OP simply moving downstream the energy system, from:

  1. What raw fuel energy is intaken (foods eaten).
  2. To how it is delivered and uptaken by each cell (insulin sensitivity).
  3. To the health of delivery channels (vitamin K2, etc., for blood vessels)
  4. To the power plants that burn the fuel (mitochondria).

If the power plants are breaking down, then logically you've got a major problem.

In general, I don't know what the eff is going on at the level of mitochondria.

But again, since all cells in the body rely on this system, any accelerated decrepitude in mitochondria should predictably result in higher incidence of degenerative disease.

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 26, 2013
at 04:08 AM

thats where all the psychedelic stuff occcurs.. :)

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!