7

votes

What do you think about all the contradicting advice of paleo?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 06, 2012 at 9:28 PM

Person A tells me that if I want to lose weight I should stop the excuses and exercise even if I don't feel like it. Person B tells me forcing yourself to work out or working out too much raises cortisol, which inhibits weight loss.

Person A tells me that if I want to lose weight, intermittent fasting will do the trick. Person B tells me the reason I'm not losing is I'm eating too little.

Person A tells me calories have nothing to do with nutrition and "calories in calories out" is complete B.S. Person B tells me that the reason I'm not losing weight is I'm eating too much and should cut my calories.

Person A tells me that taking time for myself and relaxing and doing what makes me happy is very important for weight loss. Person B tells me that my habit of sitting in front of the TV with a glass of wine several nights a week (which is what makes me happy) is not good for me if I want to lose weight.

On and on it goes...

How do I get my head around all these contradicting statements? I've searched the Internet forever for definitive answers but there doesn't seem to be any.

What are your thoughts?

P.S. I just want to clarify, I'm not overweight. I'm currently fluctuating between 140-145 lbs (probably the fluctuations are water weight), which being 5'5" is a healthy weight. But, it's the higher end of my healthy range and I'd like to get my BF down a bit. Also, I've been exercising diligently for the past 5 years, so maybe the reason I weight more now is because I've gained muscle. I don't really care about the numbers on the scale, it's the BF that worries me.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Love this answer - especially because advice given on PH is often across age groups, genders, and life stages.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on January 09, 2012
at 03:42 PM

I probably did myself no favors giving up wine during those times I wanted to get through a plateau. Well, it was healthier to give it up, but wine is a diuretic, so it likely took longer to move the numbers on the scale. I can drop several pounds of water weight just with wine. In fact, I actually got worried over the Christmas holidays because it took a while for that water to come back.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on January 09, 2012
at 03:36 PM

Starvation mode exists, after multiple days of no food. Person A & B are looking at different time scales. Listen to Person A if you want to lose weight; listen to both if you want to maximize weight loss. Don't listen to B alone because you will then get really hungry and eventually break your diet. Nutrient density is key- get enough protein for your lean body mass; I migrated to 70%fat,20%protein,10%carbs on average- 1500 calories a day. I don't pay attention to calories anymore, but I did then to speed the loss. Butter is good for me, it being mostly animal fat.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on January 08, 2012
at 02:42 PM

@ChromeBlossom: Just because you don't eat the same calories on a day _you_ IF doesn't mean it can't be done - there's no contradiction. You can relax the next day, and you can relax after your work out. I think you are subconsciously looking for an excuse so you can avoid doing work outs and IF'ing? If so, I won't give you "permission" to skip workouts or fasts. Get off your butt and work out. Fasted. Conquer your fear, or it will conquer you.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 08, 2012
at 01:52 PM

Have you actually tried to follow the suggestions of person A or B? Did any of it work? Exerise does not automatically equal weightloss. Eating less does though.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 08, 2012
at 01:51 PM

Paleo isnt a lifestyle. Paleo is just how you eat at meal times. (which is actually only a small part of the day)

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on January 08, 2012
at 05:12 AM

Lunch and dionner sound good to me. I think if you're trying to lose weight it's worth bearing in mind that meat is a large source of calories. I eat fruit for breakfast. It's controversial to say that on here, but nevertheless, I do and I think it boost my metabolism. Also I think a caveman would have likely eaten something similar at the start of the day before going hunting. All I can suggest is eat lesser portions of meat and replace that food with fruit and vegetables. A caveman wouldn't have meat three times a day seven days a week; at least I think it's very unlikely that he would.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 08, 2012
at 03:09 AM

Thanks for the advice. I don't even know what my BF percentage is. I hate numbers. Mirror is my #1 way of gauging these things. But I think I'll have it measured now, because I understand it isn't like the number on the scale, it actually means something. What's the best way to get your BF measured?

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 08, 2012
at 02:49 AM

I still think they're contradictory, sorry. For instance, you _could_ eat the same amount of calories in a day and still IF, but I don't. If I eat three meals at 500 cals each adding up to 1500 cals total, and decide to IF one day until lunch time, I'll end up eating 500 cals less. I've recorded this. And how can one relax and exercise at the same time? Impossible.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 08, 2012
at 02:38 AM

I agree also. The problem is finding the right combination of things that work. It's like trying to crack a safe! ;)

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 08, 2012
at 02:32 AM

Breakfast, usually 2-3 eggs, 2-3 strips bacon, half avocado. Lunch is meat and vegetables, usually leftovers (like today I had a bowl of Indian stew with beef, butternut squash, tomato and sweet potato cooked in coconut milk). Dinner, also a meat and vegetable or salad, though sometimes I add a bit of potato. I drink 2 cups of coffee with cream a day and water. Sometimes tea. I don't eat nuts and very little fruit. I might have an apple here and there but that's it. I don't normally snack either. I use ghee/butter or duck fat to cook and olive oil for salads. I also make my own mayo with it. :

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 08, 2012
at 01:03 AM

And how you understand the scientific process. I don't think many physicists struggle with not being able to experiment.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 07, 2012
at 07:52 PM

I like your last sentence and I totally agree that what works for me may not work at all for you and vice versa. I may not care so much why it works, as in needing to see the research. If it's something I feel comfortable trying then I'll let my personal reaction lead me toward a decision.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 07, 2012
at 07:49 PM

I understand what you're saying, but for many people I think acceptance of an "objective reality" means the end of freedom to explore and experiment. It's all in how you define the term.

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on January 07, 2012
at 06:37 AM

This x1000: "Oh, and remember, free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it". These 'contradictions' are an integral part of what paleo really is, it's not a diet plan, weight loss plan or guarantee of health, its just a natural life style humans have evolved. Humans are the only species that have willful self destructive tendencies and yet are capable of standing in front of a tank in the name of freedom - we are born of contradiction.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on January 07, 2012
at 01:11 AM

Hah, I'm so going to use that pic....looks like reductionism at work.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on January 07, 2012
at 01:10 AM

Sounds like a case of paralysis by analysis to me. Just pick a simple plan and begin. You can modify as you go, but just get started with the basics.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 07, 2012
at 12:10 AM

Not obese or even overweight. But would like to be leaner.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 07, 2012
at 12:00 AM

@ChromeBlossom, but it's such fine mocking those! Nonsense has value too.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:59 PM

Thanks for your response. I'm actually not new to paleo. I've been eating this way for almost 2 years. I know losing weight takes patience, but mine is running out. About alcohol: I did Whole30 and didn't drink anything through it, and continued afterwards for another 2 months. Obviously I don't have a drinking problem. Quitting butter and cream was much harder! ;) didn't lose weight, so I doubt it's the wine. I drink maybe 4-5 glasses a week now. And how can both persons A and B be right when those are contradicting statements? Either there is starvation mode or there isn't, for example.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:58 PM

You seem to assume I'm new to paleo. I've actually been eating this way for over a year. I know losing weight takes patience, but mine is running out. About alcohol: I did Whole30 and didn't drink anything through it, and continued afterwards for another 2 months. Obviously I don't have a drinking problem. Quitting butter and cream was much harder! ;) didn't lose weight, so I doubt it's the wine. I drink maybe 4-5 glasses a week now. And how can both persons A and B be right when those are contradicting statements? Either there is starvation mode or there isn't, for example.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:57 PM

But anyway... You seem to assume I'm new to paleo. I've actually been eating this way for over a year. I know losing weight takes patience, but mine is running out. About alcohol: I did Whole30 and didn't drink anything through it, and continued afterwards for another 2 months. Obviously I don't have a drinking problem. Quitting butter and cream was much harder! ;) didn't lose weight, so I doubt it's the wine. I drink maybe 4-5 glasses a week now. And how can both persons A and B be right when those are contradicting statements? Either there is starvation mode or there isn't, for example.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:49 PM

Heh... While I agree, aren't there some things we all agree are nonsense? Such as these: http://paleohacks.com/questions/41448/what-conventional-wisdom-advice-just-gets-your-goat

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on January 06, 2012
at 11:34 PM

What do you eat in a typical day?

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:18 PM

I'm not overweight, actually. I'm just bigger than I'd like to be (5'5", 145 lbs). I used to be 130-135 and felt great at that weight, but I wasn't exercising. I think with exercise I'd feel amazing if I could get there again. I know this weight gain is not muscle because I can see I have more fat than before.

724ba4f39f7bbea7f74b45c0a79615f2

(1968)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:08 PM

You are on a roll today!

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:01 PM

I'm not overweight, actually. I'm just bigger than I'd like to be (5'5", 145 lbs). I used to be 130-135 and felt great at that weight, but I wasn't exercising. I think with exercise I'd feel amazing if I could get there again. I know it's not muscle gain because I can see I have more fat than before. But great response, thanks!

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:56 PM

@ Mallory Well, truth is, I've been paleo for over a year and it makes me feel great, which is why I'd never quit. I'm not overweight, but I'm not lean either. My body doesn't look as healthy as I feel!

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:56 PM

Try one thing at a time, and if it works for you, then that means it was the definitive answer - for you. Then move on to the next thing, if needed. If it doesn't work for you, then try the next one, until you find your "definitive answer".

46bee6b93ee79082ea1094f26c2da5a4

(837)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:45 PM

yup. that. I think everyone is different and you have to listen to your body, experiment, see what your body reacts to best, in not only weight loss BUT also important to think in terms of health too. Examples: does this or that food halt weight loss or give you a headache? Tough exercise might be good and help you lose weight, or it might make you so hungry you can't stop eating, then not so good, try something lighter. Take the suggestions with a grain of salt and see how YOU respond. Best of luck!

A942dbc90fe12f7f90744a68f9f223e2

(249)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:40 PM

I agree. It would not be any fun if we had all the answers ;-)

775bc83a7c54975e77a8500e065a24c3

(814)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:32 PM

Great Answer!!!

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 06, 2012
at 10:26 PM

I do think that the reason that these *seem* contradicting is that ultimately the end result is generally the same: no matter what you do, if you stop eating the standard Western diet and start being more physically active, you will achieve results!

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:14 PM

I THINK you should figure out what works for you. experiment, listen, take note. regardless of what person A says, if you feel like sh*t do not keep it up.

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on January 06, 2012
at 10:03 PM

I gave her one, so you're alright

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 06, 2012
at 09:56 PM

Thanks Nance ... back at ya!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 09:48 PM

LOL, Beth! If I could give you more than 1 up-vote I would!

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14 Answers

38
7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 06, 2012
at 09:39 PM

I think the story of the six blind men and the elephant pretty much says it all:

what-do-you-think-about-all-the-contradicting-advice-of-paleo?

Nutrition is like the elephant ... what you believe (and will vocally defend) is what it looks like from your perspective. The truth is more complicated!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 09:48 PM

LOL, Beth! If I could give you more than 1 up-vote I would!

724ba4f39f7bbea7f74b45c0a79615f2

(1968)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:08 PM

You are on a roll today!

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on January 06, 2012
at 10:03 PM

I gave her one, so you're alright

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Love this answer - especially because advice given on PH is often across age groups, genders, and life stages.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 06, 2012
at 09:56 PM

Thanks Nance ... back at ya!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 07, 2012
at 12:00 AM

@ChromeBlossom, but it's such fine mocking those! Nonsense has value too.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on January 07, 2012
at 01:11 AM

Hah, I'm so going to use that pic....looks like reductionism at work.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:49 PM

Heh... While I agree, aren't there some things we all agree are nonsense? Such as these: http://paleohacks.com/questions/41448/what-conventional-wisdom-advice-just-gets-your-goat

7
Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on January 06, 2012
at 10:07 PM

Worrying about it too much probably makes you fat.

It could, but seriously - live like a caveman. Eat things a caveman would eat, do the sort of exercise a caveman would do. Laze around sometimes like you would do if you never had a boss or school to go to. Just eat salad and fruit some days because cavemen wouldn't be able to go to the supermarket and invariably would have had days with no meat.

Take all this stuff as given and then relax and enjoy it. It's not about counting calories or getting too scientific over contradicting data about nutritional values and different types of fat. Just imagine being a caveman and then try to live that irregular pattern.

Good luck!

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:18 PM

I'm not overweight, actually. I'm just bigger than I'd like to be (5'5", 145 lbs). I used to be 130-135 and felt great at that weight, but I wasn't exercising. I think with exercise I'd feel amazing if I could get there again. I know this weight gain is not muscle because I can see I have more fat than before.

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on January 06, 2012
at 11:34 PM

What do you eat in a typical day?

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:01 PM

I'm not overweight, actually. I'm just bigger than I'd like to be (5'5", 145 lbs). I used to be 130-135 and felt great at that weight, but I wasn't exercising. I think with exercise I'd feel amazing if I could get there again. I know it's not muscle gain because I can see I have more fat than before. But great response, thanks!

775bc83a7c54975e77a8500e065a24c3

(814)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:32 PM

Great Answer!!!

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on January 08, 2012
at 05:12 AM

Lunch and dionner sound good to me. I think if you're trying to lose weight it's worth bearing in mind that meat is a large source of calories. I eat fruit for breakfast. It's controversial to say that on here, but nevertheless, I do and I think it boost my metabolism. Also I think a caveman would have likely eaten something similar at the start of the day before going hunting. All I can suggest is eat lesser portions of meat and replace that food with fruit and vegetables. A caveman wouldn't have meat three times a day seven days a week; at least I think it's very unlikely that he would.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 08, 2012
at 02:32 AM

Breakfast, usually 2-3 eggs, 2-3 strips bacon, half avocado. Lunch is meat and vegetables, usually leftovers (like today I had a bowl of Indian stew with beef, butternut squash, tomato and sweet potato cooked in coconut milk). Dinner, also a meat and vegetable or salad, though sometimes I add a bit of potato. I drink 2 cups of coffee with cream a day and water. Sometimes tea. I don't eat nuts and very little fruit. I might have an apple here and there but that's it. I don't normally snack either. I use ghee/butter or duck fat to cook and olive oil for salads. I also make my own mayo with it. :

7
4d6aa1a676240b15dc569ff8ade0500f

(2546)

on January 06, 2012
at 09:34 PM

i can sooo empathize with your feelings on this. like nance says: you have to weed through it and figure it out for yourself, for your body and your mentality. i pretty much stopped reading magazines and diet books, i limit myself to certain blogs, but will go weeks and months without even looking at those when i get overwhelmed. it's a truly personal experience, and when i see all these people having success and achieving what they want, it's very inspiring, yes, but it can also be very frustrating that i haven't quite figured it out yet. that's when i know i need to refocus my attentions and get back to the basics: myself.

46bee6b93ee79082ea1094f26c2da5a4

(837)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:45 PM

yup. that. I think everyone is different and you have to listen to your body, experiment, see what your body reacts to best, in not only weight loss BUT also important to think in terms of health too. Examples: does this or that food halt weight loss or give you a headache? Tough exercise might be good and help you lose weight, or it might make you so hungry you can't stop eating, then not so good, try something lighter. Take the suggestions with a grain of salt and see how YOU respond. Best of luck!

4
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 06, 2012
at 10:50 PM

The hilarious thing is when people aren't recommending what is successful. I'll see some kind of dogmatic comment and then click on their username and see a bunch of recent questions they asked where it's clear they are struggling.

But either way, that's why I've found self-experimentation so valuable. It's allowed me to use other people's ideas to generate hypotheses to test.

2
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 09:30 PM

I think it's both confusing and healthy. And, in many ways, they're all right. The same things don't work for everyone, therefore all the successful people will recommend what worked for them.

Your job is to experiment and see which of them found what will work for you.

A942dbc90fe12f7f90744a68f9f223e2

(249)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:40 PM

I agree. It would not be any fun if we had all the answers ;-)

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 08, 2012
at 02:38 AM

I agree also. The problem is finding the right combination of things that work. It's like trying to crack a safe! ;)

1
724ba4f39f7bbea7f74b45c0a79615f2

on January 06, 2012
at 11:24 PM

I think advice can evolve into excuse when we want it to (happens to me ALL the time)

Oh, I should intermittently fast? I'll starve myself until my blood sugar is in the toilet cause I want to feel like a badass even though my body's totally not cut out for this. But wait, starches are safe? I'll load up on potatoes while famished. Plus, exercise raises cortisol, so I'll totally just zonk out on the couch when I'm done. Oh, eat when I'm hungry? Well, that starch bomb is starting to wear off, maybe I'll eat about a million almonds and drink coconut milk, since calories don't count and fat is good for you. Then eat an entire salmon steak or two to balance out the O6 from the almonds. Etc. etc., ad infinitum.

I guess all I'm saying is that this person is probably healthier than your average Joe, but they're also doing what, when you boil it down, will make anyone fat/plateau: eating too much, not controlling blood sugar, not moving at all. Any one of those things (fasting, starch, fat, relaxing, eating a ton at once, etc.) can be good for you. Just don't do them all, all the time.

But you can make excuses for anything you do. I think when you're fighting your body by saying "but I think I'm supposed to do X," take a second and decide whether you're actually trying to push yourself to do something good for you (go for a walk if you're a non-athlete, take a break if you're an addict) or whether you're really reaching for a paleo excuse to not have to do things you don't want to do.

So the question is: when I'm reciting paleo advice to myself, is it just to reinforce whatever behavior I've already decided to do, or is it really because I'm trying to remember all the advice I've read and make an informed decision for myself? (The second most important question is, if I'm just using it as an excuse, do I care? Sometimes the answer should definitely be no).

I get why we make excuses, and everyone does it constantly. Losing weight? Being healthy? Changing a habit? It's hard sometimes. Most good things in life are. Just make sure you keep in mind the difference between awesome hard (climbing a mountain, writing a novel0 and miserable hard (starving yourself to death, exercising to injury).

P.S. Drink wine :)

1
7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on January 06, 2012
at 10:39 PM

I agree with Nance--People are recommending what has made them successful. Sometime you will be in a position where you will be telling people what worked for you.

In business there's all that qualitative/quantitative analysis that spits out the probabilities and risks associated to whatever is getting sold. They try to get as close to success with as little risk/loss as possible. Thus...the Kellogg Challenge or SlimFast, Jenny Craig, surgical procedures, whatever. It's driven by making money.

For Paleo we just have us and some professionals who are in it because they just believe it.

YOU incur the risk here so YOU will have to be your own experiment to find out YOUR probability of success.

It might be frustrating but it's also more fun/healthy than ordering meals through the mail from a company who already examined all the risk.

1
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:25 PM

Person A meets injury, couch, bonbons, and the reality that exercise ramps up appetite- ends up fat and unhealthy. Person B goes for a biochem degree.

Person A gets hyped up on Intermittent Fasting. If he's been doing paleo for a while, his blood sugar doesn't crash anymore when he goes on fasts, so it feels pretty awesome. Eventually it may occur to him this isn't the sort of thing to tell new people. He goes back to saying don't eat grains, legumes, or dairy for 30days. IF takes skillz. Losing weight takes patience. Person B likes donuts and is currently trying to figure out how to make them paleo.

Person A and Person B are completely right, but they will fight each other to the death. Meanwhile, if you listen to Person A and reach for fatty, nutrient rich foods, complying with Person B will be much easier. In fact, if your brain can't take the idea that both could be right, just assume Person B is wrong.

Person A is making a subjective statement about emotional state and it's effect on your ability to change. It is unclear that happy people actually change much, because they are happy and tend to want to keep doing whatever it is that makes them happy. When we try to change something we do so because there is some sort of unease that we want to remove from our lives.
Person B is probably wrong about the wine, but that TV will rot your brain. I drank wine throughout most of my weight loss phase. I gave it up once or twice to get through a plateau.

So I jest, but I make sense, I hope. Your key is your own body. You can try something and see how it works. I am still trying stuff to see how it works. Checkout sethroberts.net and read some of his blog posts on self-experimentation.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:57 PM

But anyway... You seem to assume I'm new to paleo. I've actually been eating this way for over a year. I know losing weight takes patience, but mine is running out. About alcohol: I did Whole30 and didn't drink anything through it, and continued afterwards for another 2 months. Obviously I don't have a drinking problem. Quitting butter and cream was much harder! ;) didn't lose weight, so I doubt it's the wine. I drink maybe 4-5 glasses a week now. And how can both persons A and B be right when those are contradicting statements? Either there is starvation mode or there isn't, for example.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:58 PM

You seem to assume I'm new to paleo. I've actually been eating this way for over a year. I know losing weight takes patience, but mine is running out. About alcohol: I did Whole30 and didn't drink anything through it, and continued afterwards for another 2 months. Obviously I don't have a drinking problem. Quitting butter and cream was much harder! ;) didn't lose weight, so I doubt it's the wine. I drink maybe 4-5 glasses a week now. And how can both persons A and B be right when those are contradicting statements? Either there is starvation mode or there isn't, for example.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:59 PM

Thanks for your response. I'm actually not new to paleo. I've been eating this way for almost 2 years. I know losing weight takes patience, but mine is running out. About alcohol: I did Whole30 and didn't drink anything through it, and continued afterwards for another 2 months. Obviously I don't have a drinking problem. Quitting butter and cream was much harder! ;) didn't lose weight, so I doubt it's the wine. I drink maybe 4-5 glasses a week now. And how can both persons A and B be right when those are contradicting statements? Either there is starvation mode or there isn't, for example.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on January 09, 2012
at 03:36 PM

Starvation mode exists, after multiple days of no food. Person A & B are looking at different time scales. Listen to Person A if you want to lose weight; listen to both if you want to maximize weight loss. Don't listen to B alone because you will then get really hungry and eventually break your diet. Nutrient density is key- get enough protein for your lean body mass; I migrated to 70%fat,20%protein,10%carbs on average- 1500 calories a day. I don't pay attention to calories anymore, but I did then to speed the loss. Butter is good for me, it being mostly animal fat.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on January 09, 2012
at 03:42 PM

I probably did myself no favors giving up wine during those times I wanted to get through a plateau. Well, it was healthier to give it up, but wine is a diuretic, so it likely took longer to move the numbers on the scale. I can drop several pounds of water weight just with wine. In fact, I actually got worried over the Christmas holidays because it took a while for that water to come back.

0
E167c0387a5f0b87bb1f2c3e6aec73a8

(1240)

on January 07, 2012
at 07:25 PM

Person A is closer to the truth.

0
Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 07, 2012
at 12:09 PM

I'd like to say that the problem is that people have lost sight of the unique part of paleo - the overarching nutritional theory that brings together lots of disparate anecdotal conditions and cures.

In reality, we're not able to follow a true paleo lifestyle these days, and even if we knew what that was we don't know the best compromises to make. So everyone has different experiences, from implementing different ideas imperfectly, which has led to a 'complete' vision for them. Taking one person's advice on any isolated subject without knowing the rest of how they live their life is risky.

Added in to this sea of confusion is people's natural tendency to think they know best. You might think that people who forsake SAD are more open contrary ideas, but in fact they tend to require a greater degree of self-confidence to forge and succeed at their own path. Plus those that think the fact that we don't know everything means that there is no objective reality. For a science/rational based lifestyle, this isn't a good sign, but it's somewhat inevitable.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 07, 2012
at 07:49 PM

I understand what you're saying, but for many people I think acceptance of an "objective reality" means the end of freedom to explore and experiment. It's all in how you define the term.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 08, 2012
at 01:03 AM

And how you understand the scientific process. I don't think many physicists struggle with not being able to experiment.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 08, 2012
at 01:51 PM

Paleo isnt a lifestyle. Paleo is just how you eat at meal times. (which is actually only a small part of the day)

0
9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on January 07, 2012
at 11:22 AM

This site is filled with a lot of anecdotal evidence, n=1 seems to be the cool thing to say.

And since this is the internet, everybody is an expert after spending 15 minutes googling [topic], or better yet, going with their gut feeling. It's called "broscience" in weight-lifting circles. Yes, it's very derogatory, and for a good reason. It will get people hurt.

I pretty much ignore all of the above, unless the person is having a similar situation, is around my age and health and diet and exercise regimen.

What I do listen to is when people back up their claims with proper research, or people who have more credentials than having 1000 edits on wikipedia's entry on cod liver oil.

Also, I just started following my wellness, so that will help in determining what works for me.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 07, 2012
at 07:52 PM

I like your last sentence and I totally agree that what works for me may not work at all for you and vice versa. I may not care so much why it works, as in needing to see the research. If it's something I feel comfortable trying then I'll let my personal reaction lead me toward a decision.

0
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:56 PM

Sorry kiddo, but from your examples, both person A and person B are right. There's no contradiction.

Person A tells me that if I want to lose weight I should stop the excuses and exercise even if I don't feel like it. Person B tells me forcing yourself to work out or working out too much raises cortisol, which inhibits weight loss.

If you don't work out enough, you won't lose weight. If you over do it, you do raise cortisol. Both are true.

Person A tells me that if I want to lose weight, intermittent fasting will do the trick. Person B tells me the reason I'm not losing is I'm eating too little.

Both are true. Its a question of how much you're actually eating. Also, you can eat the same amount of calories in a day and still do IF.

Person A tells me calories have nothing to do with nutrition and "calories in calories out" is complete B.S. Person B tells me that the reason I'm not losing weight is I'm eating too much and should cut my calories.

Both are true. B is true if B is talking about carbs.

Person A tells me that taking time for myself and relaxing and doing what makes me happy is very important for weight loss. Person B tells me that my habit of sitting in front of the TV with a glass of wine several nights a week (which is what makes me happy) is not good for me if I want to lose weight.

Both are true. You need to both relax and work out. Just not at the same time. Make time for relaxation, make time for work outs.

It all depends on the context of the advice, and whether or not it applies to you. In order for the advice to work, Persons A and B both need to be aware of what you are doing, and what your actual situation is. It's hard to do that here without full disclosure, so they have to guess at what you're doing right/wrong and give advice based on that.

Oh, and remember, free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. :-D

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on January 08, 2012
at 02:42 PM

@ChromeBlossom: Just because you don't eat the same calories on a day _you_ IF doesn't mean it can't be done - there's no contradiction. You can relax the next day, and you can relax after your work out. I think you are subconsciously looking for an excuse so you can avoid doing work outs and IF'ing? If so, I won't give you "permission" to skip workouts or fasts. Get off your butt and work out. Fasted. Conquer your fear, or it will conquer you.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 08, 2012
at 02:49 AM

I still think they're contradictory, sorry. For instance, you _could_ eat the same amount of calories in a day and still IF, but I don't. If I eat three meals at 500 cals each adding up to 1500 cals total, and decide to IF one day until lunch time, I'll end up eating 500 cals less. I've recorded this. And how can one relax and exercise at the same time? Impossible.

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on January 07, 2012
at 06:37 AM

This x1000: "Oh, and remember, free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it". These 'contradictions' are an integral part of what paleo really is, it's not a diet plan, weight loss plan or guarantee of health, its just a natural life style humans have evolved. Humans are the only species that have willful self destructive tendencies and yet are capable of standing in front of a tank in the name of freedom - we are born of contradiction.

0
1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

on January 06, 2012
at 09:59 PM

The dose makes the poison. One glass of red wine every night? Probably not a big deal. One glass 2x a week, not a big deal. One bottle of wine per night and you should look into AA meetings.

If you want to work out which is highly recommended, 3x a week is about right for most people. 7 days a week is too much. Not lifting weights for 2 weeks is not working out. You don't have to be perfect and should be tracking progress, if your making progress keep doing what you are doing.

Walking is not lifting weights. It burns fat and does a couple other dozen good things for you. You can walk everyday if you want, and each walking session is an action that brings you closer to your goal.

Losing weight. First off, you want to lose bodyfat. Figure out where you are right now, and where you want to go. Then take action. Thinking about losing fat is not going to make it happen, instead each meal, each workout, each walk (all actions) will move you towards OR away from your goal. Set up checkpoints (4 weeks) and MEASURE progress. That is your data, if you are progressing in the right direction, don't change anything until you stop. And then, change things slowly.

Be reasonable. 1lb a week of fat loss unless a person is obese is the goal. This can be difficult to measure, but not impossible. If your eating right and getting stronger, but your scale weight is the same as last week, it means absolutely nothing negative.

Google different body fat percentages at the same weight. 150lbs at 25%bf vs 150lbs at 14%bf (for females) are like night and day, but the scale weight is exactly the same.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 08, 2012
at 03:09 AM

Thanks for the advice. I don't even know what my BF percentage is. I hate numbers. Mirror is my #1 way of gauging these things. But I think I'll have it measured now, because I understand it isn't like the number on the scale, it actually means something. What's the best way to get your BF measured?

-1
Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:29 PM

I love it! Try Plan A for 6 months. If it doesn't work try Plan B. The only thing universally true is that any plan will work if you're obese.

633ada55ad6d9831e08a6ae23270baf4

(58)

on January 07, 2012
at 12:10 AM

Not obese or even overweight. But would like to be leaner.

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