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Types of Paleo

Answered on April 03, 2014
Created March 16, 2014 at 5:22 PM

Reading what Cordain has to say versus what Robb Wolf says and other "authorities" have to say it seems that there are a lot of varying forms of Paleo. Which is the true to life life style? I read things on this web site that are opposite of what Robb says such as eating Brown Rice is okay if you soak it in water to remove the phytic acid. Or am I wrong?

Thanks in advance

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on March 19, 2014
at 08:42 AM

Mark Sisson may be attracting more people but his references aren't direct enough(he strengthens his points with his older posts or other interpretations) and he favors things in accordance with the aim of increasing sales like anyone with products to sell but he even includes folic acid.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on March 19, 2014
at 04:58 AM

you can always use the hyphen character (-) instead of a space, works every time, i think, i will test now... ie. @matt-11

having said that if the user has disabled email notifications under their profile, they will not be alerted anyway

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on March 19, 2014
at 04:58 AM

you can always use the hyphen character (-) instead of a space, works every time, i think, i will test now... ie. @matt-11

having said that if the user has disabled email notifications under their profile, they will not be alerted anyway

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 19, 2014
at 02:44 AM

I do not quite understand why Cordain has been so marginalized in the Paleo world.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on March 19, 2014
at 01:07 AM

Weston Price 80/20 checking in, nice list.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 19, 2014
at 12:29 AM

And when the nightshade-eating Eurasians marched over the landbridge and traveled south, they found a bounty of new American nightshades to eat.

http://www.eattheweeds.com/american-nightshade-a-much-maligned-edible/

Content with eating leafy nightshades for a million years, they must have been extremely pleased to discover super nightshades like tomatoes, potatoes and peppers.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 19, 2014
at 12:18 AM

CD this is starting to sound like the girl with the dragon tattoo.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on March 19, 2014
at 12:18 AM

Thanks for the history..... I came to paleo via "sideways" slide.

Blood Sugar Solution (friend was T2), then 4 Hour Body, then "Primal" and then PH.... I've never read Cordain, perhaps I should for the 'history' ?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 19, 2014
at 12:16 AM

Out of general orneriness about nightshades I looked up this:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_nightshade

This solanum species is eaten as a leafy green, and it comes from Africa. So Paleos would have eaten it for dinner (as a cooked vegetable) with their monkey brains.

So what's to hate about eating nightshades....grrrrr....

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on March 19, 2014
at 12:08 AM

Um, you sir are right, you did say dairy. Mea culpa. I must have gotten interrupted by a distraction when I read it, or at least that's my excuse and I'm pretending to stick to it.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 18, 2014
at 09:54 PM

I don't think Cordain is a proponent either. He simply used it as a transitional period drink (see here: http://www.chewfo.com/diets/the-paleo-diet-by-loren-cordain-2002-2010-what-to-eat-and-foods-to-avoid-food-list/). Cordain took a very different approach to Paleo than others have. He wrote his book (which was one of the first) similar to all other diet books of that time -- an incremental, phased approach. After Cordain, others (Wolf, Sisson, etc) took more of a philosophical approach: "This is Paleo" | "This is not" . Cordain gets a bad rap (IMO, undeservedly), because of this.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on March 18, 2014
at 09:33 PM

ahhh.... didn't know that.

Of all the things to drink .....diet coke doesn't seem like a great choice.

But if someone needs a fat loss aid....

I'm not a huge fan of soda (coke), diet or regular. A co-worker of mine used to consume two 6packs per day of "full leaded" coke. He was built like a Schmoo, his teeth were nearly gone & died of brain cancer. n=1 Fail. :(

I stick with water & wine.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 18, 2014
at 09:24 PM

Cordain has been lambasted based on a table in one of his books, "The Paleo Diet" in which he says in the introductory phase it's acceptible to drink diet soda but not soda.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on March 18, 2014
at 09:10 PM

Diet coke?

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on March 18, 2014
at 09:10 PM

Yup.... it's important to modify things based on new data and what "works" vs what doesn't work.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 18, 2014
at 08:53 PM

I agree. You see this kind of dogmatic approach in all walks of life. I would be a terrible politician, if someone accused me of flip-floping I would take it as a compliment. But if you are not willing to flip-flop then you necessarily are saying that you believe in ideology and not pragmatism. And that's not a good approach in my book.

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 18, 2014
at 08:08 PM

I second this. What bothers me most is a subject authority who unwaveringly preaches his old testament when others are waving new evidence in his face. We have to keep an open mind and remain adaptable.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on March 18, 2014
at 05:28 PM

@CDone I've had the same problem but I think a get around it

by typing Matt 11 after the @ with the space. The PH screen name insertion tool seems to work IF I use the space @Matt 11

cheers

Bob

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 18, 2014
at 02:50 PM

For some reason, the space in your user name will not allow me to refrence you properly. Even though I clicked on your user name it still went to @Matt instead of you.... Weird

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 17, 2014
at 05:25 PM

those are sub-cultures, deep into the paleo cellar. You can enter any time you like, but you can never leave!

(also I did say dairy in my primal entry).

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on March 17, 2014
at 04:44 PM

+1 you saved me a ton of typing. :)

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 17, 2014
at 02:16 PM

You're right, we're all optimizing our health and the gurus know that. Eventually Cordain will get over the nightshade-hate and accept potatoes along with Diet Coke. But this is part of the analogy to religion. Whenever one of them waffles we jump on the hypocrisy, then switch gurus.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 17, 2014
at 01:37 PM

every one of those gurus flip-flops from time to time. I actually approve of that -- knowledge changes, and we should adapt our understanding to represent the current knowledge base.

Second, I know that in my life there is no way I can match the physical lifestyle associated with traditional hunter-gatherer behavior. Far less low-level activity -- Far more high-level activity -- but based on desire not need (i.e. I lift weights because I like to, I sprint because I want to -- not because I am running away from a predator. Thus it makes sense to tweak my diet to match my reality.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 17, 2014
at 12:56 PM

CD, the more I think about Cordain waffling on the macros, the more it bothers me. Essentially he's modified Paleo into a diet for Neolithics. He's very strict on reenacting nightshades, but alters carbs to suit his fancy. Basically he's separated paleo hunter-gatherer behavior from paleo diet, and given his approval to sedentarism. If he's going to do this, he should also call into question meat eating. The paleo diet is joined at the hip with lifestyle IMO.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 16, 2014
at 10:20 PM

That quote is from his paper on observations of modern HG. In his diet text he suggests a lower carb intake given the more sedentary nature of non-HGs.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 16, 2014
at 09:24 PM

Nope...

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 16, 2014
at 08:45 PM

Now that's an interesting question.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 16, 2014
at 08:44 PM

Here's the reference I saw, giving a 22-40% carb range. Eating fruit would get to that level easily so you don't have to eat cabbage by the case. I suspect that potatoes are singled out for abuse because they're a nightshade and came from South America. I'll bet that he doesn't pass on post-paleo Colorado bison and elk though.

http://livehealthy.chron.com/macro-ratio-paleo-diet-8101.html

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 16, 2014
at 07:12 PM

Is Jack Kruse still relevant?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 16, 2014
at 07:10 PM

Never saw anything from him in writing. But I heard an interview with him and the interviewer tried to nail him down on a number. The interviewer said, "100g" and Cordain's response was something like, "Well I say unlimited low-GI carbohydrates, but I cannot fathom how anyone would get that high". Then the interviewer asked about potatoes, and Cordain's response was something like, "Potatoes are not healthy, and no one should be consuming them"

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 16, 2014
at 07:04 PM

More like "my way or the highway". You left out the Quilt form, which requires big ass breakfasts and ice baths. I also view Cordain's form as the Med diet macros minus 15% on carbs. This means 100-150g of carbs for most people. Hardly low carb.

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7 Answers

0
Medium avatar

on April 03, 2014
at 09:16 PM

@CDone @panosmj I feel Cdone has answered this really well. Well done.

Good Luck!

0
47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on March 19, 2014
at 08:44 AM

For the best autoimmune protocol, check Sarah Ballantyne, IMO.

0
0e80453e6f12d1acab55f61fd557d21a

on March 18, 2014
at 08:39 PM

Thanks for the info everyone! I appreciate it.

0
A85ba04af836ba06413bf2ff29d9d91a

on March 18, 2014
at 02:06 AM

I will have to agree with Cdone. Not much a need for many responses after that excellent post.

I will come out loud and say that i am a 85/15 paleo. I eat low low carbs, no dairy what so ever, and lots of fresh veggies, meat, and some fruit. i cheat on 3/21 meals a week, but recently i have not had a cheat day in 2 weeks. after wheening your self off cheeseburgers, pizza, and pasta, it gets easier to say no to bad foods.

All in all, find a way to make it work for yourself. make adjustments as needed and see it work!

0
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on March 17, 2014
at 05:08 PM

To add to @CDone's answer, there's also Bulletproof - in which you chug tons of bulletproof coffee and avoid all mold like the plague. :)

There's also Art De Vany's New Evolution Diet, which is more about how to work out properly in addition to diet.

There's also the Wahl's Protocol for dealing with Multiple Sclerosis and similar problems, and involves eating tons of veggies - like 9 cups per day, 3 of which are from the sulfur rich kind (cabbage, etc.)

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 17, 2014
at 05:25 PM

those are sub-cultures, deep into the paleo cellar. You can enter any time you like, but you can never leave!

(also I did say dairy in my primal entry).

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 19, 2014
at 12:18 AM

CD this is starting to sound like the girl with the dragon tattoo.

0
6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

on March 16, 2014
at 07:15 PM

Don't let differences put you off.

Keep it simple. Just eat whole unprocessed foods. That's it. If man made it don't eat it. Simple.

For me my nose runs if I drink milk or have cream so I don't often have those.

Also I don't believe breaking the rule above helps. For many sugar addicts total abstinence is the only thing that works particularly for women so having "cheat days" or sweets in moderation is a ridiculous idea.

0
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 16, 2014
at 06:46 PM

There are two types of paleo -- My way, and the wrong way.

Basically there are about 7 groups:

Then within each group there are several factions, primarily:

  • The, "I'm more hard-core than you guy"
  • The, "80/20? so I can eat ice cream and pizza two days a week" guy
  • The, "I have a sever auto-immune condition so everyone should eliminate everything that I did" guy
  • The, "I eat 10,000 calories and am ripped with abs and it has nothing to do with genetics" guy
  • The, "This is true I read it on [insert paleo guru's blog] and he linked to pubmed" guy
  • The, "I can calculate my form of paleo to 10 decimal places" guy
  • The, "There are two types of paleo -- My way, and the wrong way." guy

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 17, 2014
at 12:56 PM

CD, the more I think about Cordain waffling on the macros, the more it bothers me. Essentially he's modified Paleo into a diet for Neolithics. He's very strict on reenacting nightshades, but alters carbs to suit his fancy. Basically he's separated paleo hunter-gatherer behavior from paleo diet, and given his approval to sedentarism. If he's going to do this, he should also call into question meat eating. The paleo diet is joined at the hip with lifestyle IMO.

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on March 19, 2014
at 08:42 AM

Mark Sisson may be attracting more people but his references aren't direct enough(he strengthens his points with his older posts or other interpretations) and he favors things in accordance with the aim of increasing sales like anyone with products to sell but he even includes folic acid.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 16, 2014
at 07:04 PM

More like "my way or the highway". You left out the Quilt form, which requires big ass breakfasts and ice baths. I also view Cordain's form as the Med diet macros minus 15% on carbs. This means 100-150g of carbs for most people. Hardly low carb.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 19, 2014
at 12:16 AM

Out of general orneriness about nightshades I looked up this:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_nightshade

This solanum species is eaten as a leafy green, and it comes from Africa. So Paleos would have eaten it for dinner (as a cooked vegetable) with their monkey brains.

So what's to hate about eating nightshades....grrrrr....

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 17, 2014
at 02:16 PM

You're right, we're all optimizing our health and the gurus know that. Eventually Cordain will get over the nightshade-hate and accept potatoes along with Diet Coke. But this is part of the analogy to religion. Whenever one of them waffles we jump on the hypocrisy, then switch gurus.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on March 17, 2014
at 04:44 PM

+1 you saved me a ton of typing. :)

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on March 19, 2014
at 01:07 AM

Weston Price 80/20 checking in, nice list.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 19, 2014
at 12:29 AM

And when the nightshade-eating Eurasians marched over the landbridge and traveled south, they found a bounty of new American nightshades to eat.

http://www.eattheweeds.com/american-nightshade-a-much-maligned-edible/

Content with eating leafy nightshades for a million years, they must have been extremely pleased to discover super nightshades like tomatoes, potatoes and peppers.

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