2

votes

to leave the paleo diet?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 14, 2011 at 9:22 PM

Reading the book "Bounce" by Matthew Sayd has made me question my whole principal toward diet, this may surprise, because there is little or no mention of diet in the book. Previously, I have been following what is a "paleo diet" (my version at least, which is: personal examination, elimination, reintroduction of foods). After reading this book however, I have begun to question my own principals, perhaps the idea of diet or dieting itself is placebo, it's actually when one takes a positive interest in one's own health and makes positive steps, it's the belief, the "believing" that generates the changes in interior and exterior health.

The author uses Muhammad Ali and Jonathan Edwards (British author, sorry, triple jump world record in 1995) as particular examples in the sporting world, both had very strong but opposing religious beliefs, they both sighted their personal versions of "god" as having carried them forward, an absolute belief, to their individual absolute goals respectively. They can't both have been right about their image of what is "god", it was only the "belief" part that was the important, not the exact religion.

For me, I have always questioned religion and "blindly" following anything for that regard, so, dedicating myself to paleo diet too far could even alienate me from my own friends, I absolutely don't wish this.

1e58ba5c171a122541d8b4873f604327

(229)

on April 25, 2011
at 04:00 PM

On of the most glaring examples of common sense getting it wrong in the paleo world is "calories in=calories out". Seems to make a lot of sense, but is not close to the truth.

1e58ba5c171a122541d8b4873f604327

(229)

on April 24, 2011
at 11:03 PM

Often times, common sense and logic are opposites. The most glaring example of this I think is people equating correlation and causation. Many good examples are found in economics. Then there are the idioms of popular thought that sound so good, so they must be true. "everything in moderation" is a good example. Or what about "everything is relative"? This became a popular saying after Einstein proposed relativity. That really pissed him off. Everything is not relative. While common sense does follow logic at times, it diverges more often when the system becomes more complex.

3c04e97f68c270d7a03861e2daf75f68

(40)

on April 17, 2011
at 01:06 AM

I think the answer to your last question is a clear yes. Human animals can clearly live in reasonable health on a wide variety of highly variable diets. If your so called 'optimal diet' (whatever that may be) proves costly in other areas the net gain, or positive influence on your life is certainly affected.

2f54dbe892ec89b12d1db686568e885a

(919)

on April 16, 2011
at 12:49 PM

we need common sense to live by, logic we don't

2f54dbe892ec89b12d1db686568e885a

(919)

on April 16, 2011
at 12:43 PM

+1 from me too - obsessions are to be avoided

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 15, 2011
at 09:18 PM

the question is wrongly phrased, sorry,if you want to edit it, go ahead, maybe it should be something like: "is the very idea of diet/ or wanting to improve one's self just a placebo"

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 15, 2011
at 09:11 PM

Thank you Jack for reading the question, english is absolutely my first language, by the way. I did't really like Melissa's original answer (I downvoted it) she edited it, that is all...

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 15, 2011
at 08:53 PM

I'm not leaving paleo, not at all, it's the diet mentality I want to leave... not the paleo bit...

4d10a09dadeb266681418f5fe06c3f00

(115)

on April 15, 2011
at 06:55 PM

this way of eating I've adopted over the last 9 months has completely changed my outlook on food, made me feel better, and has actually MADE SENSE when all other "diets" never really did

4d10a09dadeb266681418f5fe06c3f00

(115)

on April 15, 2011
at 06:54 PM

+1 to Melissa again; avoid the gluten as best you can and do your best when it's up to you...when it's NOT up to you (out with friends, or dinner made by someone else), enjoy in moderation

C33e8c236e72d67c4b6c028401d23cce

(1884)

on April 15, 2011
at 06:13 PM

How, exactly, is logic different from common sense?

1e58ba5c171a122541d8b4873f604327

(229)

on April 15, 2011
at 05:20 PM

I disagree with the statement 'science is the application of common sense'. I would hope that science it the rigorous application of logic. Often it isn't, and when common sense aften beats logic in "scientific" studies, which is why we must take everything with a critical eye, even "scientific" studies.

1e58ba5c171a122541d8b4873f604327

(229)

on April 15, 2011
at 05:08 PM

I have not read the book you cite, but it seems to me that the author is using a logical fallacy, yes both people believed strongly in something, but to say that this ws causative in their success does not follow. What about Lance Armstrong, who was a very adamant atheist, and was successful? What about the millions of people who believe that they will succeed, but do not? You don't hear about them, because they are not famous.The trap that people fall into is believing that you can pinpoint a cause for everything.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:59 PM

+1 to Melissa for this answer. People need to chill the hell out before they give themselves a panic disorder ;D

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:12 PM

In fact, I know you've said in other posts that English is not your first language and that you sometimes struggle with the proper delivery, so I considered that too because that's certainly a tough barrier sometimes. But then, I did indeed downvote this question. I see your explanation above to Patrik about and I must say... I never would have thought that's what you were asking. At any rate, I have now reversed the downvote. Carry on.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:11 PM

assumptions, assumptions. WCC Paul is correct. My editing had nothing to do with the downvote. In fact, when I first saw this, I saw the question with 0, and Melissa's answer downvoted, which I didn't understand. Then moments later, I saw the question at -1 and Melissa's answer at 0. I read the "question" carefully, twice. "to leave the paleo diet?" is the only shadow of a question here. After a twice over, I still could not understand what the crux of this was. No disrespect to you Oliver. con't....

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 15, 2011
at 06:26 AM

@patrik, if you believe something strongly, be it a placebo, you can do incredible things, it's the "belief" part that is important. The question could be, how much of this health improvement is real? could it just be the striving for better health that improves your health, rather than the actual vehicle...

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 15, 2011
at 06:18 AM

@valkyrie, I'm not doing anything really, just questioning the effect of just believing in something that could placebo.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 15, 2011
at 06:16 AM

If eating paleo is alienating you from your friends, you could just eat some crackers when you're around them instead of leaving paleo.

D83e454e794d761ab524814c0ff8f838

(531)

on April 15, 2011
at 12:50 AM

Leave Paleo for what? I get where you're coming from, but what the options you're considering? Becoming a breatharian, fruitarian, or eating a healthy-ish version of SAD?

15e684f6f716f88c99f641098a6e06ca

(922)

on April 15, 2011
at 12:14 AM

hmm, i'm not so sure it's dedicating yourself to the paleo diet that has alienated you from your friends.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on April 14, 2011
at 11:32 PM

What is the actual question here?

C33e8c236e72d67c4b6c028401d23cce

(1884)

on April 14, 2011
at 11:19 PM

I'm mostly referring to the scientific method itself. Observation, hypothesis, experimentation, revision. The amorphous body that is scientific consensus is a different animal, and one that is very slow to change. This is as it should be, because the world is complicated and outliers make good stories but bad science. However, "science" itself has provided several studies that support some Paleo conclusions. It's just important to remember that good science only asks one question at a time. The more rigorous it is, the more likely it is to be accurate, and the less it actually says.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 11:10 PM

not sure about your definition of science, since popular science seems to have failed us so badly in the nutrition department - Gary Taubes... thank you for reading the question though.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:14 PM

it is sort of an existentialist question if you want, heidegger identified with the one that jumped into the flowers.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:14 PM

We don't have to go esoteric in considering what he says about "energy". Ever go into a room where people are giving you bad attitude, a bad "vibe", without saying anything? Compare that with a situation where you are being loved and appreciated. It's not "woo".

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:03 PM

i undid the downvote, i am sorry... I thought you were too quick to respond and hadn't read the question...

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 14, 2011
at 09:59 PM

sorry, but you can't transmit energy to other people either :P that would be cool though. but it's woo.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:58 PM

I didn't feel she'd read the question, that's all. sorry, I will undo the downvote.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 14, 2011
at 09:56 PM

To be honest I think that you personally and most of the religiously paleo people would be happier and perhaps healthier on a SAD diet. I've met people who have done "orthodox" paleo for 15 years and they look sick and they typically live alone and have no friends. I met one of them because they were telling me at a paleo party that the stuffed tomato I was eating wasn't "paleo." Friends, family...they are a higher priority for me than a diet. You don't even have to eat the junk, just eat well and don't call attention to your diet.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:54 PM

Wait I don't think Jack's editing had anything to do with a downvote, or at least not necessarily. He was just changing the tags: fixing the typo on "paleo" and connecting "real" and "food" with a hyphen, which you have to do if you want a multi-word phrase to be a tag. You can click on "edited x minutes ago" to see what the edit was.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 14, 2011
at 09:53 PM

it scares me that you have let this ideology alienate you from your friends. I've seen this happen so many times in the NYC paleo community. People end up isolated and unhappy. It's not worth it.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:50 PM

no idea about Edward's diet, I am sure he had a belief in bread though, he carried a tin of sardines in his sports bag, not to eat, but to feed a million... I actually really like the guy...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:50 PM

I'd like to know about the down vote myself. Oliver raises a legitimate point, I think.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:45 PM

no chicken breast and kale for me, sorry, I'll upvote if you're that desperate, but I didn't feel you'd read the question...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:41 PM

Do you know anything on the diet of edwards. isnt there uch a proverb belief can move mountains??http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/brendangallagher/2342634/Edwards-the-last-one-left-standing.html

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:39 PM

why the edit? and why the down vote? Jack?

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:38 PM

sorry, I downvoted, not really the sort of answer I was looking for

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9 Answers

6
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 14, 2011
at 09:27 PM

My rule for diet is find the MINIMUM required to make you feel happy and healthy. For me, that gives me tons of leeway. If I eat fries with my friends this evening I'll feel fine. I'll skip the pizza though. It took some experimentation to find the level of badness I can tolerate, but it was sooo worth it so I can enjoy time with friends, holidays, and occasional treats.

OK fine, you want to address the idea that it's just the idea of being healthy that makes you healthy? In my experience it just doesn't work that way. I quit the paleo diet when I lived in Europe because I thought the food there was quite healthy despite some gluten and sugar. Soon enough I had GI symptoms again.

4d10a09dadeb266681418f5fe06c3f00

(115)

on April 15, 2011
at 06:54 PM

+1 to Melissa again; avoid the gluten as best you can and do your best when it's up to you...when it's NOT up to you (out with friends, or dinner made by someone else), enjoy in moderation

2f54dbe892ec89b12d1db686568e885a

(919)

on April 16, 2011
at 12:43 PM

+1 from me too - obsessions are to be avoided

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 14, 2011
at 09:53 PM

it scares me that you have let this ideology alienate you from your friends. I've seen this happen so many times in the NYC paleo community. People end up isolated and unhappy. It's not worth it.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:45 PM

no chicken breast and kale for me, sorry, I'll upvote if you're that desperate, but I didn't feel you'd read the question...

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:38 PM

sorry, I downvoted, not really the sort of answer I was looking for

15e684f6f716f88c99f641098a6e06ca

(922)

on April 15, 2011
at 12:14 AM

hmm, i'm not so sure it's dedicating yourself to the paleo diet that has alienated you from your friends.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:03 PM

i undid the downvote, i am sorry... I thought you were too quick to respond and hadn't read the question...

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:59 PM

+1 to Melissa for this answer. People need to chill the hell out before they give themselves a panic disorder ;D

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 14, 2011
at 09:56 PM

To be honest I think that you personally and most of the religiously paleo people would be happier and perhaps healthier on a SAD diet. I've met people who have done "orthodox" paleo for 15 years and they look sick and they typically live alone and have no friends. I met one of them because they were telling me at a paleo party that the stuffed tomato I was eating wasn't "paleo." Friends, family...they are a higher priority for me than a diet. You don't even have to eat the junk, just eat well and don't call attention to your diet.

5
C33e8c236e72d67c4b6c028401d23cce

(1884)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:55 PM

Science is nothing more than the rigorous application of common sense. Faith is the rigorous application of hope. Both have their advantages and their shortcomings, but when it comes to knowing whether things are real or not, common sense has the better track record by far.

What you eat matters. This is obvious to anyone who ever ate spoiled meat, or drain cleaner. Total well-being is more complicated than that and we don't know everything yet, but that's where the common sense comes in. The Paleo lifestyle rests on a foundation of logic, observation and experimentation, in the laboratory as well as the kitchen, the gym, and ultimately the bathroom.

What you think matters. This is less obvious, maybe, and much, much harder to measure, but pretty much everyone can come up with personal anecdotes about a shift in perspective changing their day, or even their lives. There are few laboratories for thoughts, and those that try are often suspect, but you can still apply the same reasoning to your own experience. Find what works for you and do that.

Eat well. Think well. Evolution equipped us to do both, and happiness usually lies somewhere down that road.

C33e8c236e72d67c4b6c028401d23cce

(1884)

on April 14, 2011
at 11:19 PM

I'm mostly referring to the scientific method itself. Observation, hypothesis, experimentation, revision. The amorphous body that is scientific consensus is a different animal, and one that is very slow to change. This is as it should be, because the world is complicated and outliers make good stories but bad science. However, "science" itself has provided several studies that support some Paleo conclusions. It's just important to remember that good science only asks one question at a time. The more rigorous it is, the more likely it is to be accurate, and the less it actually says.

1e58ba5c171a122541d8b4873f604327

(229)

on April 15, 2011
at 05:20 PM

I disagree with the statement 'science is the application of common sense'. I would hope that science it the rigorous application of logic. Often it isn't, and when common sense aften beats logic in "scientific" studies, which is why we must take everything with a critical eye, even "scientific" studies.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 11:10 PM

not sure about your definition of science, since popular science seems to have failed us so badly in the nutrition department - Gary Taubes... thank you for reading the question though.

C33e8c236e72d67c4b6c028401d23cce

(1884)

on April 15, 2011
at 06:13 PM

How, exactly, is logic different from common sense?

2f54dbe892ec89b12d1db686568e885a

(919)

on April 16, 2011
at 12:49 PM

we need common sense to live by, logic we don't

1e58ba5c171a122541d8b4873f604327

(229)

on April 24, 2011
at 11:03 PM

Often times, common sense and logic are opposites. The most glaring example of this I think is people equating correlation and causation. Many good examples are found in economics. Then there are the idioms of popular thought that sound so good, so they must be true. "everything in moderation" is a good example. Or what about "everything is relative"? This became a popular saying after Einstein proposed relativity. That really pissed him off. Everything is not relative. While common sense does follow logic at times, it diverges more often when the system becomes more complex.

1e58ba5c171a122541d8b4873f604327

(229)

on April 25, 2011
at 04:00 PM

On of the most glaring examples of common sense getting it wrong in the paleo world is "calories in=calories out". Seems to make a lot of sense, but is not close to the truth.

4
2e060a5edde44c1fe77abcf8d3997e01

on April 14, 2011
at 10:19 PM

In the past, I fanatically "believed" in a low-fat diet. It did not work for long-term weight-loss or health.

In contrast, I originally tried paleo as a lark--just to see what would happen. I only started to "believe" when the weight flew off, my blood pressure came down, and my general health radically improved.

4d10a09dadeb266681418f5fe06c3f00

(115)

on April 15, 2011
at 06:55 PM

this way of eating I've adopted over the last 9 months has completely changed my outlook on food, made me feel better, and has actually MADE SENSE when all other "diets" never really did

3
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on April 14, 2011
at 09:51 PM

Dude! You ask a question then downvote someone who takes the time to answer you cause it's not the type of answer you were looking for? Seriously?

O.k. so now that I have that off my chest, seems like you are having some sort of existentialist dilemma going on which is all well and good. It happens to the best of us. I get what you are saying but it seem to me you contradict yourself with "perhaps the idea of diet or dieting itself is placebo, it's actually when one takes a positive interest in one's own health and makes positive steps, it's the belief, the "believing" that generates the changes in interior and exterior health." Taking interest and then making positive steps were seem to eliminate placebo effect no? I would say if we took interest yet did NOTHING you could talk about placebo effect but otherwise positive steps tend to lead to better health in most cases.

If you feel the need to "leave" then leave. See what happens. You start eating more junk but you're happy so health will follow? If that's what you believe is true then go test it out. It's a big crap shoot so follow your heart and/or gut and do what feels right.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:14 PM

it is sort of an existentialist question if you want, heidegger identified with the one that jumped into the flowers.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:58 PM

I didn't feel she'd read the question, that's all. sorry, I will undo the downvote.

3
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:46 PM

Well, I think there is a lot of truth to what you are saying. It is true to a point. However, there are objective laws out there and while there may be have a large margin and be influenced by our thoughts, it is not entirely malleable. So, I think there are some dietary rules that are, shall we say, essential, there is also, as you mention, a lot of personal mythology. Point: don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Recognize the importance of the objective and subjective.

2
1e58ba5c171a122541d8b4873f604327

on April 15, 2011
at 05:15 PM

I have not read the book you cite, but it seems to me that the author is using a logical fallacy, yes both people believed strongly in something, but to say that this ws causative in their success does not follow. What about Lance Armstrong, who was a very adamant atheist, and was successful? What about the millions of people who believe that they will succeed, but do not? You don't hear about them, because they are not famous.The trap that people fall into is believing that you can pinpoint a cause for everything.

Given that, your point about alienating your friends is very valid, You must strike a balance between your physical and social health.... no easy task!

I have discovered some tricks for this, the one that works the best is telling people I have a gluten intolerance. While some might see this is a lie, I believe that every human is intolerant of gluten to a certain degree, so I don't think I am lying. If I do eat the occasional bread product, and they catch me, I just explain that I'm not celiac... I just don't tolerate it too well and try to limit my intake. Again this is not a lie. I used to "preach" to friends when they would ask about my diet, but as you said this can alienate them. I no longer do this unless we are talking about diet already or it comes up for some reason.

2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 15, 2011
at 07:04 AM

what's the "paleo diet" you're talking about?

as i see it, presently, there is not even an agreement on what 'paleo' is, so what exactly are you going to "leave"?

if all contradictions are more or less unified and eliminated, the only way one can leave paleo is by becoming a 'a raw vegan eating a lot of MSG-added margarine-smothered wheat and drinking tons of sweetened carbonated beverages' - is that what you're going to change "paleo" for?

2
535633b57c4a4940d1e913e7a12ee791

(1013)

on April 15, 2011
at 12:36 AM

Anything that will get you to examine your diet and think about what you are putting into your body is good. You have to start somewhere. Diets, like the Paleo, may just be vehicles of self-experimentation, a beginning template. Once you educate yourself on how your body works in relation to food can you ever go back to the pizza and beer diet?

3c04e97f68c270d7a03861e2daf75f68

(40)

on April 17, 2011
at 01:06 AM

I think the answer to your last question is a clear yes. Human animals can clearly live in reasonable health on a wide variety of highly variable diets. If your so called 'optimal diet' (whatever that may be) proves costly in other areas the net gain, or positive influence on your life is certainly affected.

1
8c2ed9a35f6c4d35a3552a13ddabec8d

on April 15, 2011
at 05:38 PM

Stay Paleo!!! As long as 80-90% of your diet is good you'll be fine. Leave that little bit extra for a treat out with your friends or whatever. Besides you'll be better off in the long run.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 15, 2011
at 08:53 PM

I'm not leaving paleo, not at all, it's the diet mentality I want to leave... not the paleo bit...

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