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The ideal diet

Commented on April 09, 2014
Created April 08, 2014 at 11:19 AM

I want to be the healthiest I can possibly be, and look the best I can - what foods would you recommend I eat/what should my diet consist of?

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on April 09, 2014
at 02:16 PM

Thanks, lol. Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with animal fats, and I personally consume very large quantities of lard. I don't know about their "healing properties" though, haven't found any hard evidence for that. Ultimately fats are composed of triacylglycerols of the same basic fatty acids, which are often a mix of primarily oleic (18:1), palmitic (16), stearic (18), and linoleic (18:2) acids, in the case of most animal fats as well as olive oil.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on April 09, 2014
at 10:53 AM

I was just going to write the same thing. If you start losing muscle and craving protein, then you need more. If it starts tasting too meaty, then less. (assuming you're already eating close enough to the right range.) Tricky. +1 pseudo upvotes. (thread is too nested.)

De1095b2ba29c1035f00428cbfe3cc7c

(777)

on April 09, 2014
at 10:43 AM

For myself (and possibly everyone) protein is the hardest thing to figure out levels for, supposedly we can recycle protein/junk protein so days where your fairly sedentary you could go really low, but wouldn't want to go very low regularly for obvious reasons (losing lean mass). I think listening to your body would be best, eat slowly, try & feel when you've had enough, let your appetite/activity level dictate how much.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on April 09, 2014
at 10:28 AM

Interesting stuff. The more I think about this, the more I realize that I may be overestimating my protein consumption with IF and only doing 2 meals a lot of days with varying sizes of meats and leftovers. I'm somewhere in the 85g +/- 15g of protein range. Tricky. Too bad there's not a good metric for determining if you need more or less. (Ammonia UAA test for excess, perhaps?)

De1095b2ba29c1035f00428cbfe3cc7c

(777)

on April 09, 2014
at 09:58 AM

Good Rosedale article on protein:

http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2010/05/07/ron-rosedale-protein-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/

Rosedale says you can make all the glucose you need from the backbone of fats (glycerol) and pyruvate/lactate from what I remember. I think you have to be super keto-adapted to do that though. As soon as you eat carbs or excess protein it diminishes the gluconeogenesis from fat. Here's an article by Chris Masterjohn on making glucose from fats

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2012/01/we-really-can-make-glucose-from-fatty.html

De1095b2ba29c1035f00428cbfe3cc7c

(777)

on April 09, 2014
at 09:51 AM

I tend towards animals fats recently, I know olive oil has all the tests behind it but I reckon animal fats have healing properties not found in most plant oils, just going off my own evidence though. Delicious post btw!

De1095b2ba29c1035f00428cbfe3cc7c

(777)

on April 09, 2014
at 09:49 AM

Oh ok, I thought any gluconeogenesis from protein was bad full stop as it's either gonna be dietary protein which is best used for repair/maintenance, or lean mass, and both potentially producing ammonia as a toxic by product. Jaminet sells the PHD as being low carb as it still uses gluconeogenesis from protein as if that's a good thing.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on April 09, 2014
at 08:39 AM

I haven't read Rosedale. Do you have any good links to get me up to speed? It looks like he has a book.

I was reading this article, which has 1.1g/kg as below optimal for protein when in keto. It looks like he suggests closer to 0.9g/kg. 1.2g/kg is looking about the sweet spot.

If I was 20lb heavier, I would be at 1.2g/kg, but at my weight, 90g is ~1.4g/kg. If I was 10lb lighter, I would be at 1.5g/kg. Tricky. Maybe 0.9g/kg is more the recommendation if you're heavy and losing weight?

Jaminet likes 600 protein+carb kcal to avoid glucose deficiency.

De1095b2ba29c1035f00428cbfe3cc7c

(777)

on April 08, 2014
at 07:48 PM

Yeah some of those are really high & i couldn't handle them, i'm floating around 70g net carbs by adding some parsnips/carrots etc just experimenting a bit, sweet pots give me joint pain in old injuries but parsnips are really nice mashed with some fat and got some good micronutes as well

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on April 08, 2014
at 07:46 PM

Forgot to mention, glycerol is found in fat molecules (triacylglycerol) which are composed of fatty acids and glycerol.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on April 08, 2014
at 07:43 PM

Gluconeogenesis itself isn't toxic, only the high consumption of protein which is then used via gluconeogenesis for energy. Eating lots of protein is actually worse than eating carbs, since ultimately it becomes glucose via deamination and gluconeogenesis. The deamination does produce ammonia which is toxic. However, this doesn't mean that only protein can be used for gluconeogenesis, as glycerol can also be used, without the toxic effect of ammonia that protein has. Rosedale never advocates for high-protein, he actually advises against it, he goes for low-carb, high-fat, low-protein.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on April 08, 2014
at 07:34 PM

Well, maybe the carb count is not that high with sweet potatoes, but try rice, taro or cassava (a.k.a. tapioca) and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Rice: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5712/2?mbid=ndblog

Cassava (a.k.a. tapioca): http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2389/2

Taro: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2674/2

These do have a lot of carbs, specially rice, with very little in the way of nutrition.

I agree, Rosedale does seem to make much more sense.

De1095b2ba29c1035f00428cbfe3cc7c

(777)

on April 08, 2014
at 07:07 PM

I thought it was absolutely nuts at first but 1lb of sweet pots or parsnips is only 70g net carbs so not that extreme in the grand scheme of things. I still think the way he sells it as being 'low carb as it doesn't fully meet the bodies glucose needs and still needs gluconeogenesis from protein' isn't ideal as gluconeogenesis can become toxic. Ideally Rosedale makes more sense, make as much glucose as you can from fat.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on April 08, 2014
at 04:23 PM

Eat a pound of starch a day? God, I really hope the OP isn't diabetic, or that will kill him/her off.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 08, 2014
at 04:22 PM

i agree that there are many templates, some being better than others.... like is said in original answer,i thought others here would provide a template (and fair enough perhaps..).for such a vague question without any context provided specific answers might be based on the answerers perspective, may not be relevant to the op (same for me...).But an answer about mentality can augment, complement others...i could say answers about specific general principles e.g. co-opt the Pollan one 'eat real food'... but i had confidence others would - so i pitch a vague answer.That wasnt prescribingbran!

Medium avatar

(10601)

on April 08, 2014
at 02:20 PM

I think it's best to provide a food template that reflects the Paleo ideal. Vegan, fruitarian and SAD are entirely different templates. Whether you can hit the template exactly is another matter. It's only a framework to start with. It doesn't guide you toward bran flakes and bananas though.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 08, 2014
at 02:05 PM

problamtics... I am going to make point about critical outlooks being useful - a point nfo being used and applied judiciously by people who have knowledge of their personal contexts, bodies etc being very imortant if anything like 'best' can be brought into being. 'best'..best for whom? answers to this question might be about general principles anyway - here's a template, go and apply to your context... It might be seafood or something in the phd prescriptions aren't readily available where op is... we don't know..., and can't on the basis of info provided about his/her context (none...) '

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 08, 2014
at 02:00 PM

recipes... I think it's good sign op is asking questions, but the question is very vague... I'm not about to offer specific prescriptions of what to do to get the 'best possible body' etc it doesn't... that mentality, principles are what help people decide between different recipes... I think it's good sign op is asking questions, but the question is very vague... I'm not about to offer specific prescriptions of what to do to get the 'best possible body' etc (although I don't think that would necessarily be

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 08, 2014
at 01:59 PM

I would say you have different principles now, perhaps after being exposed, learning for yourself and becoming convinced that certain ideas are good and work for you. I'm not advocating that recipes, specific suggestions aren't useful (I think they can be very...). I'm suggesting to the OP that without having an adequate critical mentaity/outlook anyone can tel them any recipe and maybe they try it and it worked, or maybe they try it and it doesn't... that mentality, principles are what help people decide between different

Medium avatar

(10601)

on April 08, 2014
at 01:23 PM

Principles led me to eat dry breakfast cereals. They're full of vitamins, minerals, fiber and they're cheap. You need better foods to push foods like this out of your diet.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 08, 2014
at 01:02 PM

I wasn't pitching to provide a recipe - but making point that principle matters more than any recipe... As I said i think there are many general points that can be said and good points to be made (i see i wrote 'plant' heh...), and i'm sure many like you have reasonable points to share, as i see you have.... Principle, mentality, context is very important though- recipes are made by people for themselves, it works for them... Principles are more individual - you can take ideas from here and there, some general pricniples, and find what works for you...

Medium avatar

(10601)

on April 08, 2014
at 12:32 PM

Kind of vague...you can't pull out a cookbook without some ingredients.

De1095b2ba29c1035f00428cbfe3cc7c

(777)

on April 08, 2014
at 12:24 PM

Although i'm somewhat coming around from VLC to PHD I think this chart can be a bit misleading, Jaminet says on PHD most calories come from fat, about 70% I believe it works out, this chart doesn't give that impression at a first glance. Sure if you add up 1lb of starches, 0.5-1lb of meat, some veggies, then fats have to make up the rest which would be most of the calories, but I think the chart still gives the impression eat mostly starch, meat, some veggies and a little bit of fat as a condiment. I basically think fat should be bigger on there!

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6 Answers

0
Medium avatar

on April 08, 2014
at 07:34 PM

For starters I recommend you eat at home, stay away from restaurants and so called health food stores. Majority of that stuff is absolute garbage. Control everything you put in your body. Eat like our prehistoric ancestors did, EAT LIKE A CAVEMAN. What does that mean??? The Caveman diet consists mainly of fish, grass-fed pasture raised meats, eggs, vegetables, fruit, fungi, roots, and nuts, and EXCLUDES grains, legumes, dairy products, potatoes, refined salt, refined sugar, and processed oils.

@Krisli Good luck hope this helps some what. keeps us posted!!!

0
Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on April 08, 2014
at 04:32 PM

Lots of non-starchy veggies with a lot of nutrition in them (broccoli, asparagus, spinach, cabbage, kale, brussel spouts, etc). Lots of good fats, especially olive oil (should be your #1 fat), lard, duck fat, some butter, etc. Lots of non-starchy/non-sugary fruits like olives, lemons, avocados, cucumbers, tomatoes, blackberries, raspberries, peppers, etc. Plenty of seafood, including fish of all kinds and shellfish/mollusks. Meats, specially fatty ones like pork belly and duck or nutritious ones like chicken livers and beef heart. Nuts, specially macadamias, hazelnuts and almonds as they are extremely nutritious. Also don't forget about eggs, they are awesome.

De1095b2ba29c1035f00428cbfe3cc7c

(777)

on April 09, 2014
at 09:51 AM

I tend towards animals fats recently, I know olive oil has all the tests behind it but I reckon animal fats have healing properties not found in most plant oils, just going off my own evidence though. Delicious post btw!

0
Medium avatar

(10601)

on April 08, 2014
at 12:30 PM

Salads, seafood and buttered sweet potatoes as needed for cravings. And cook it yourself. Filling your diet up with foods you make pushes out the need for restaurant and snack foods.

0
Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

on April 08, 2014
at 12:17 PM

There is no ideal diet.. There are only diets that work well for particular people. General statements can be made that are agreeable and I'm sure there are plant to be made, but you have to find for yourself what works, seems to be 'ideal'/good for you...

The healthiest you can be... , ideal diet...reasonsable statements perhaps, but I think you should be careful not to have unreasonable expectations. You don't know what healthiest looks like - I guess that can be exciting and motivating as you day by day come about finding out...

Medium avatar

(10601)

on April 08, 2014
at 12:32 PM

Kind of vague...you can't pull out a cookbook without some ingredients.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 08, 2014
at 01:02 PM

I wasn't pitching to provide a recipe - but making point that principle matters more than any recipe... As I said i think there are many general points that can be said and good points to be made (i see i wrote 'plant' heh...), and i'm sure many like you have reasonable points to share, as i see you have.... Principle, mentality, context is very important though- recipes are made by people for themselves, it works for them... Principles are more individual - you can take ideas from here and there, some general pricniples, and find what works for you...

Medium avatar

(10601)

on April 08, 2014
at 01:23 PM

Principles led me to eat dry breakfast cereals. They're full of vitamins, minerals, fiber and they're cheap. You need better foods to push foods like this out of your diet.

0
Medium avatar

on April 08, 2014
at 12:15 PM

Perfect Health Diet: Vegetables Herbs & Spices Sauces and Soup Meat, Fish & Eggs Safe Starch You can take a look at the image that gives you the detail list of the perfect health diet.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on April 08, 2014
at 04:23 PM

Eat a pound of starch a day? God, I really hope the OP isn't diabetic, or that will kill him/her off.

De1095b2ba29c1035f00428cbfe3cc7c

(777)

on April 08, 2014
at 12:24 PM

Although i'm somewhat coming around from VLC to PHD I think this chart can be a bit misleading, Jaminet says on PHD most calories come from fat, about 70% I believe it works out, this chart doesn't give that impression at a first glance. Sure if you add up 1lb of starches, 0.5-1lb of meat, some veggies, then fats have to make up the rest which would be most of the calories, but I think the chart still gives the impression eat mostly starch, meat, some veggies and a little bit of fat as a condiment. I basically think fat should be bigger on there!

0
Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on April 08, 2014
at 12:00 PM

What is healthiest and most ideal for your diet might not be the most ideal for others.

Eg. If you have a FODMAPs sensitivity, your ideal diet is different than if you're trying to eat a bunch of onions / garlic for gut flora issues.

Calorie restriction looks pretty healthy to me. But, that isn't for everyone. If you have thyroid issues or get hungry often, that's not going to be ideal.

In general, I'd suggest a base of vegetables, some fresh wild meat with your meals, and some light daily fruit and starches on top, and the occasional nuts / seeds / chocolate / cheat foods / juices / beans as necessary for variety (as tolerated by your n=1 experiments.) Although, some don't do well with fibers or have access to fresh wild meat, so there goes a lot of that base. And cheat foods / beans aren't Paleo.

Every time you eat something new, Google the shit out of it until you form an opinion. These will likely change with your goals and your n=1 results as you try new foods / macros, and as new research emerges. I've read that Japanese school children are taught to aim for 100 different varieties of food per week. I wish I could find that variety of organic plants at my local grocery stores.

To get it most ideal, you end up looking like a hunter / organic farmer. Your macros should just fall in line with the amount of vegetable and fats you're able to eat.

As important as diet is for your health, the right kind of exercise and sleep / stress relief is right up there with it. The best advice I can give is meat and veggies.

Eventually, you'll want to look into supplements, but those will vary depending on your unique needs.

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