2

votes

Robb Wolf and steroids, De Vany anti-fat

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created December 06, 2010 at 8:22 PM

What's going on in the Paleo world? Are the founders over-thinking and starting to fall into nutritionism (in the sense of focusing too much on the details)? Kind of reminds me of certain religions that have teachers who spoke a simple message, but as time progressed people made it more and more complex, until the practice didn't really resemble the original message.

  • A few podcasts back Robb said the only real side effcts of steroids was an improved life.

EDIT BY PATRIK

Geoff is referring to one of Robb's podcast which can be found here.

The conversation around testosterone, steroids, anti-aging, hormone replacement therapy starts on the 49th minute. I would suggest listening to all of Robb's thoughts before making up your mind.

1742a605736a9ef0695b0b2296e1b6b0

on December 21, 2013
at 04:19 AM

Spam redacted.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 10, 2013
at 01:43 AM

Anonymous fake name stirring up shit, definition of a troll.

1742a605736a9ef0695b0b2296e1b6b0

on December 09, 2013
at 11:58 PM

And how is that 'trolling', exactly? CarbSane is owed an apology - and some would even argue restitution, at this point - by about half of the Paleo/Lowcarbosphere. She truly does not receive enough credit for pretty much singehandedly debunking both Gary Taubes and the Carbohydrate-Insulin Hypothesis. Credit is clearly due. The great Dr. Kurt Harris (for one) would have wanted it that way (and in his final words before departing the Paleosphere said as much).

Medium avatar

(0)

on December 09, 2013
at 05:38 PM

But that for sure is true! Problem is most people don't know how to use it correctly and it should be done in cooperation with a doctor who takes test to make sure you're on the right dosage. My dad has a brain tumor, due to that he kind of grew old to quick. The right dosage of HGH and Testo did a lot fir his life quality. You could do the same just to gain muscles if thats your goal or use a very low dose of HGH just to stay young longer (it's done everyday by people with a lot of money or a career built on their appearance. Like hollywood)

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on December 09, 2013
at 03:25 PM

No, he does not owe anything to anyone - if anything you, uh, I mean CarbSane, needs to get a life, and quit trolling - trollmas passed, look at your calendar, today isn't April 1st.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on October 27, 2011
at 06:59 PM

and then there's the HIV patient who needs smart steroids to live a productive life, or my friend the aerialist who has rheumatoid arthritis and needs to take 5mg prednisone a day to continue living her passion.

99ac392257e444e014be6d4da6a900e4

(1036)

on December 08, 2010
at 01:00 AM

Exactly, Mongoose. My point is directly related to Robb's statement. Just because something isn't paleo doesn't mean it can't improve one's life/existence. This probably isn't a popular stance here but I think some folks take paleo way too seriously. Unless you're walking around in a loin cloth, ungroomed, with no material possessions, living in a cave, not speaking English, not using artificial light, heat, air conditioning...you get my point...you're not living a true paleo lifestyle...oh, and that includes participating in a message board chat. :)

9e1dedf12f6ee75b7fe460960971fd21

(624)

on December 07, 2010
at 11:08 PM

Art de Vany can pry my potatoes from my cold, dead hands.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 07, 2010
at 09:47 PM

And of course in nutrition science, in particular, we have some spectacular examples of bad scientists.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 07, 2010
at 09:47 PM

You're both right. ChuckC's statement is correct if you add the word "good" before "scientist." But scientists are human, too, and subject to confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, blind spots, and everything else that makes us partially irrational creatures.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 07, 2010
at 09:44 PM

I think he'll live. =) He's a big boy.

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 07, 2010
at 09:05 PM

Guess, too many answers so I can't delete. Anyway, sorry about the inflammatory question. Didn't mean any disrespect.

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 07, 2010
at 09:04 PM

I'm deleting this question as I feel it puts Robb in a bad light. Sorry about that.

65125edd5aafad39b3d5b3a8b4a36bb7

(6092)

on December 07, 2010
at 08:19 PM

I have a coworker who had their adrenal glands destroyed by steroids she was prescribed to treat an different illness. She now has to supplement cortisol or die.

65125edd5aafad39b3d5b3a8b4a36bb7

(6092)

on December 07, 2010
at 08:18 PM

I disagree, not all scientists will change their opinion based on new evidence. "Science advances, one funeral at a time."

3c04e97f68c270d7a03861e2daf75f68

(40)

on December 07, 2010
at 11:21 AM

Geoff, you asked the question about steroids, so does this make your original question irrelevant? Jason's right that some people get all righteous about how other people use - and abuse - their bodies when quite frankly it's none of their business. And, no, this has nothing to do with paleo eating but lots to do with the larger paleo lifestyle questions.

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 07, 2010
at 02:46 AM

I love Robb and think he is one of the top guys. I didnt mean to misrepresent him I just noticed that a number of Paleo guys seem to be straying from trying to replicate the environment we evolved to live in and have become more into trying to manipulate the human specimen to achieve ultimate performance. This is more inline with what conventional science has been trying to attempt for at least the last 60 years. I didnt mean to belittle Robb or Art in any way just trying to start a discussion. Maybe the post came across a bit too inflammatory

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 07, 2010
at 02:42 AM

"I get a kick out of the anti (Ritalin, Cocaine, Heroine) crowd. If there was a pill, when taken properly, is "safe", and could turn a (struggling student, contractor, musician) into an (A student, thriving business, famous artist) not many people would pass it up." I fixed it for you. Tell me again, what does this have to do with Paleolithic eating? If you are interested in expanding human potential to its theoretical ultimate potential I suggest you visit this website. imminst.org

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 07, 2010
at 02:41 AM

"I get a kick out of the anti (Ritalin, Cocaine, Heroine) crowd. If there was a pill, when taken properly, is "safe", and could turn a (struggling student, contractor, musician) into an (A student, thriving business, famous artist) not many people would pass it up. I fixed it for you. Tell me again, what does this have to do with Paleolithic eating? If you are interested in expanding human potential to its theoretical ultimate potential I suggest you visit this website. imminst.org

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 07, 2010
at 02:40 AM

"I get a kick out of the (Ritalin, Cocaine, Heroine) crowd. If there was a pill, when taken properly, is "safe", and could turn a (struggling student, contractor, musician) into an (A student, thriving business, famous artist) not many people would pass it up. I fixed it for you. Tell me again, what does this have to do with Paleolithic eating? If you are interested in expanding human potential to its theoretical ultimate potential I suggest you visit this website. http://www.imminst.org/

4a1966b5bc00a9aefd3abd63b9913284

on December 07, 2010
at 02:21 AM

It's funny, isn't it, how people can read his book and listen to the podcasts, yada yada yada, but until you're in front of him and really "get" the message about not sweating the small stuff (gluten, in this case, is NOT small stuff), then people really just go a bit ape on the details and miss the big picture. Sure, there are issues where details matter, but 95% of people would succeed to a great degree if they slept well and followed a pretty basic paleo diet and calmed the eff down :)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 07, 2010
at 01:48 AM

From his foods to avoid section on starchy vegetables "This category includes potatoes, which are not vegetables, technically speaking, but tubers—plant forms that specialize in storing energy. It also includes most root vegetables, such as sweet potatoes, parsnips, water chestnuts, turnips, and radishes. A yam (which is different from a sweet potato) every now and then is fine because it contains a lot of fiber, which slows the release of the starches. The occasional beet or raw carrot is fine, too. Other starchy vegetables to avoid include green beans and lima beans."

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7314)

on December 07, 2010
at 01:48 AM

maybe it has fructose?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on December 07, 2010
at 01:32 AM

I didn't quite understand that quote. Maybe we need more context to understand it.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 07, 2010
at 01:27 AM

beachrat- you might be talking about corticosteroids. These are anabolic steroids--they are are different (and actually quite opposite!) animals.

C16d506f10d910db0736bfd0d0e3809a

(10)

on December 07, 2010
at 12:43 AM

My mom had a breathing condition that eventually killed her. Steroids prolonged her ability to breathe for many years though. When she first started having to take them I was completely freaked out per the hype, and believe me they are nothing to fool around with for fun; they definitely have strong consequences. And they definitely decline in effectiveness. I don't know enough about them to know whether sports-related use might deteriorate their effectiveness for medicinal purposes, or if there are so many different kinds it wouldn't be likely to work out that way.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on December 06, 2010
at 10:44 PM

It some times can be enlightening to explore disagreement. While it's not helpful to be crass and belittle people, it is helpful to say "hey, these people I consider intelligent and who have been a part of defining a paradigm that has changed my life are starting to say things that I don't know if I agree with. What's up that? Am I wrong? Are they wrong? What's the basis for their assertions? What can we learn from this"

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on December 06, 2010
at 10:36 PM

@Geoff - I find your characterization of Robb's thoughts misrepresented. His thoughts are qualified throughout with various caveats about Hormone Replacement Therapy, anti-aging etc et

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on December 06, 2010
at 10:36 PM

@Geoff - I find your characterization of Robb's thoughts represented. His thoughts are qualified throughout with various caveats about Hormone Replacement Therapy, anti-aging etc etc.

1dd5986edc44148c39247cfa61fbe881

(300)

on December 06, 2010
at 09:33 PM

Also to be considered is that as a scientist, he will formulate his hypothesis on available data, test that data and validate (or invalidate) his hypothesis. If he needs to change his hypothesis, he will. It's what a scientist does. I respect him for well founded, well researched shifts in his hypothesis, it means he's actually still thinking about the problem.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on December 06, 2010
at 09:31 PM

Specifically: question at minute mark 49, the claim that the literature suggests that "the main side-effect is improved life" is at 50:48. He also later on says that it is less dangerous than alcohol, if I remember correctly.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on December 06, 2010
at 08:57 PM

@Jae -- where???? Can you please be specific?

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 06, 2010
at 08:50 PM

Robb wasn't being sarcastic -- he's making the point that the "OMG steroids are dangerous" claims are overblown, and that there is a lot of misinformation on the topic. He doesn't "endorse" steroids (he's never taken them), but he's reporting the evidence as he sees it.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 06, 2010
at 08:45 PM

http://robbwolf.com/2010/11/02/the-paleo-solution-episode-52/ -- starts around minute mark 50

1dd5986edc44148c39247cfa61fbe881

(300)

on December 06, 2010
at 08:39 PM

Citation Needed. I find this implausible. I've heard him joke about it in a "I mean the opposite of what I'm saying" way. Please cite the podcast as I need to listen to it.

  • B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

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14 Answers

6
99ac392257e444e014be6d4da6a900e4

(1036)

on December 06, 2010
at 08:46 PM

Robb said, when used properly, steroids can be beneficial depending on your goals. He, himself has never used and doesn't advocate. If you abuse them, things can go wrong, just like if you abuse any other supplement or foodstuff.

Medium avatar

(0)

on December 09, 2013
at 05:38 PM

But that for sure is true! Problem is most people don't know how to use it correctly and it should be done in cooperation with a doctor who takes test to make sure you're on the right dosage. My dad has a brain tumor, due to that he kind of grew old to quick. The right dosage of HGH and Testo did a lot fir his life quality. You could do the same just to gain muscles if thats your goal or use a very low dose of HGH just to stay young longer (it's done everyday by people with a lot of money or a career built on their appearance. Like hollywood)

5
97afe73c4040ac0256466794436643aa

on December 06, 2010
at 08:37 PM

I think the more and more these folks are asked their opinions -- especially on the Paleo minutia -- the more and more they're forced to slightly tweak their original message corresponding to that minutia. The basic message is still the same; minutia is where all the n=1 massaging takes place. Just my opinion, of course -- take it for what it's worth, no more.

1dd5986edc44148c39247cfa61fbe881

(300)

on December 06, 2010
at 09:33 PM

Also to be considered is that as a scientist, he will formulate his hypothesis on available data, test that data and validate (or invalidate) his hypothesis. If he needs to change his hypothesis, he will. It's what a scientist does. I respect him for well founded, well researched shifts in his hypothesis, it means he's actually still thinking about the problem.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 07, 2010
at 09:47 PM

And of course in nutrition science, in particular, we have some spectacular examples of bad scientists.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 07, 2010
at 09:47 PM

You're both right. ChuckC's statement is correct if you add the word "good" before "scientist." But scientists are human, too, and subject to confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, blind spots, and everything else that makes us partially irrational creatures.

65125edd5aafad39b3d5b3a8b4a36bb7

(6092)

on December 07, 2010
at 08:18 PM

I disagree, not all scientists will change their opinion based on new evidence. "Science advances, one funeral at a time."

3
1dd5986edc44148c39247cfa61fbe881

(300)

on December 06, 2010
at 09:28 PM

Just listened. So, if you listen to the whole segment you hear that he is interested in what hormone replacement therapy / anabolics at the later stages in our life cycle would do for longevity of performance. As a biochemist, I think that he has a clinical interest, and as an ex-power lifter, a performance/historical interest in the appropriate and timely usage of these treatments.

I'll channel a little Dave Tate here [paraphrased from my notes of an interview I saw]:

"We're dealing with young athletes looking toward professional athletes as comparisons. The problem with that is 90% of the professional athletes are going to be professional athletes with or without drugs due to genetics and skills.

The late maturers are generally the ones that are going to be at the higher level. The kids that aren't making he team at jr high levels. If they stay, they'll be the best in high school. What generally happens is that the kids that aren't playing / sitting the bench are working their skills and drills. The more mature athletes are running plays. That works really well until the other kids mature, an then they blow the early maturers away. Human potential is a lot higher than we think it is.

I think that drugs shouldn't be a part of the issue. In most sports it's a part of the sport. It's there. Those who get caught are labeled the bad person. Drugs have been a part of sports since the 60s. It's not going to go away. People who get locked into a vision, that's it. Nothing matters. Most people in society will never understand that.

I'm not pro nor con anabolics. It's your ace card. If you're an athlete and you get ONE ace card, when are you going to play it? If you have to play it to make your high school football, you're probably not going to play in college. If you play it to make your college team, you probably aren't going to make pro. If you play it to make the combine, then you're probably going to go pro, but how long are you going to be there? If you play it after five years in the pros to get another five years, well now you're making another $5 - $10 million dollars. It's all a matter of when do you feel you have to flip that card, because you can only play it once.

The problem I have with it is that you have high school kids flipping that card. I have a problem with people that are flipping it too soon. Just because you hit a sticking point, doesn't mean you aren't going to go any further. You need to try something new."

C16d506f10d910db0736bfd0d0e3809a

(10)

on December 07, 2010
at 12:43 AM

My mom had a breathing condition that eventually killed her. Steroids prolonged her ability to breathe for many years though. When she first started having to take them I was completely freaked out per the hype, and believe me they are nothing to fool around with for fun; they definitely have strong consequences. And they definitely decline in effectiveness. I don't know enough about them to know whether sports-related use might deteriorate their effectiveness for medicinal purposes, or if there are so many different kinds it wouldn't be likely to work out that way.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 07, 2010
at 01:27 AM

beachrat- you might be talking about corticosteroids. These are anabolic steroids--they are are different (and actually quite opposite!) animals.

3
E242ecf1fecbac866894059f5304b4c6

(318)

on December 06, 2010
at 09:02 PM

people on paleohacks are so particular...these kind of topics really turn me off from the community

yes, this wasn't the greatest contribution to the question, but people who feel the same way won't need an explanation. everyone else will disagree anyways

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on December 06, 2010
at 10:44 PM

It some times can be enlightening to explore disagreement. While it's not helpful to be crass and belittle people, it is helpful to say "hey, these people I consider intelligent and who have been a part of defining a paradigm that has changed my life are starting to say things that I don't know if I agree with. What's up that? Am I wrong? Are they wrong? What's the basis for their assertions? What can we learn from this"

2
0c60711a7b3f04697753ecd824f8a3fa

(20)

on December 06, 2010
at 08:50 PM

I just had a seminar with Robb on Saturday. He never mentioned steroids but has a joking personality. he also stated that he doesn't want people to worry about the details and minutiae. This isn't a cult. Live a little.

As for Steroids, I think its personal and what are your goals. How come they are ok to be prescribed by a physician? They must do some good. like anything else, when abuse happens is when you see the fall out.

65125edd5aafad39b3d5b3a8b4a36bb7

(6092)

on December 07, 2010
at 08:19 PM

I have a coworker who had their adrenal glands destroyed by steroids she was prescribed to treat an different illness. She now has to supplement cortisol or die.

4a1966b5bc00a9aefd3abd63b9913284

on December 07, 2010
at 02:21 AM

It's funny, isn't it, how people can read his book and listen to the podcasts, yada yada yada, but until you're in front of him and really "get" the message about not sweating the small stuff (gluten, in this case, is NOT small stuff), then people really just go a bit ape on the details and miss the big picture. Sure, there are issues where details matter, but 95% of people would succeed to a great degree if they slept well and followed a pretty basic paleo diet and calmed the eff down :)

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on October 27, 2011
at 06:59 PM

and then there's the HIV patient who needs smart steroids to live a productive life, or my friend the aerialist who has rheumatoid arthritis and needs to take 5mg prednisone a day to continue living her passion.

1
8f8ff21a67437febebc70afd19364e95

(153)

on December 07, 2010
at 07:19 PM

This is my take:

Paleo eating is a framework for eating the best to accomplish a variety of tasks (some are quite personal). A framework...not a religion. You have to make good decisions and cannot always say "well Wolf said" or "well Sisson says". Educate yourself and figure it out!

As for steroids. I won't touch them. I looked into them and there is just too much juggling around. If it was easy and safe, I would take them for sure b/c for me, this whole thing is about living longer and healthier. That is one of the promises of steroids.

HGH and Peptides? Well, those are a different story and I plan to take them (once my hormone levels have dropped a bit) for a long, long time. There is enough evidence that moderate GH/Peptide use is extremely beneficial to a long, healthy life that you cannot ignore it. And you can take moderate amounts of GH/Peptides forever with no adverse side effects. This is NOT the horse steroids of the '70s ;)

GH/Peptides may not be "paleo", but who cares? If your goal is to only "live like a caveman", sobeit. Mine is to live a long, healthy life with a physically high level of fitness for as long as possible.

1
8287c6ddae0d78eae0a09fdd5999617c

(2581)

on December 06, 2010
at 11:59 PM

I read Melissa's blog post on De Vany. Where he says in his book that the "occasional" raw carrot is fine. OMG, what is so unhealthy about a carrot that it must be eaten only occasionally?

9e1dedf12f6ee75b7fe460960971fd21

(624)

on December 07, 2010
at 11:08 PM

Art de Vany can pry my potatoes from my cold, dead hands.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7314)

on December 07, 2010
at 01:48 AM

maybe it has fructose?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 07, 2010
at 01:48 AM

From his foods to avoid section on starchy vegetables "This category includes potatoes, which are not vegetables, technically speaking, but tubers—plant forms that specialize in storing energy. It also includes most root vegetables, such as sweet potatoes, parsnips, water chestnuts, turnips, and radishes. A yam (which is different from a sweet potato) every now and then is fine because it contains a lot of fiber, which slows the release of the starches. The occasional beet or raw carrot is fine, too. Other starchy vegetables to avoid include green beans and lima beans."

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on December 07, 2010
at 01:32 AM

I didn't quite understand that quote. Maybe we need more context to understand it.

1
99ac392257e444e014be6d4da6a900e4

(1036)

on December 06, 2010
at 11:55 PM

I get a kick out of the anti-steroid crowd. If there was a pill, when taken properly, is safe, and could turn a $50k/year accountant into a $1 million/year accountant, not many people would pass it up.

99ac392257e444e014be6d4da6a900e4

(1036)

on December 08, 2010
at 01:00 AM

Exactly, Mongoose. My point is directly related to Robb's statement. Just because something isn't paleo doesn't mean it can't improve one's life/existence. This probably isn't a popular stance here but I think some folks take paleo way too seriously. Unless you're walking around in a loin cloth, ungroomed, with no material possessions, living in a cave, not speaking English, not using artificial light, heat, air conditioning...you get my point...you're not living a true paleo lifestyle...oh, and that includes participating in a message board chat. :)

3c04e97f68c270d7a03861e2daf75f68

(40)

on December 07, 2010
at 11:21 AM

Geoff, you asked the question about steroids, so does this make your original question irrelevant? Jason's right that some people get all righteous about how other people use - and abuse - their bodies when quite frankly it's none of their business. And, no, this has nothing to do with paleo eating but lots to do with the larger paleo lifestyle questions.

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 07, 2010
at 02:42 AM

"I get a kick out of the anti (Ritalin, Cocaine, Heroine) crowd. If there was a pill, when taken properly, is "safe", and could turn a (struggling student, contractor, musician) into an (A student, thriving business, famous artist) not many people would pass it up." I fixed it for you. Tell me again, what does this have to do with Paleolithic eating? If you are interested in expanding human potential to its theoretical ultimate potential I suggest you visit this website. imminst.org

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 07, 2010
at 02:40 AM

"I get a kick out of the (Ritalin, Cocaine, Heroine) crowd. If there was a pill, when taken properly, is "safe", and could turn a (struggling student, contractor, musician) into an (A student, thriving business, famous artist) not many people would pass it up. I fixed it for you. Tell me again, what does this have to do with Paleolithic eating? If you are interested in expanding human potential to its theoretical ultimate potential I suggest you visit this website. http://www.imminst.org/

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 07, 2010
at 02:41 AM

"I get a kick out of the anti (Ritalin, Cocaine, Heroine) crowd. If there was a pill, when taken properly, is "safe", and could turn a (struggling student, contractor, musician) into an (A student, thriving business, famous artist) not many people would pass it up. I fixed it for you. Tell me again, what does this have to do with Paleolithic eating? If you are interested in expanding human potential to its theoretical ultimate potential I suggest you visit this website. imminst.org

1
9e1dedf12f6ee75b7fe460960971fd21

(624)

on December 06, 2010
at 08:40 PM

  1. I've heard that De Vany is anti-fat in his book. That is lame.

  2. I am a regular podcast listener, and i doubt that Robb Wolf endorses steroids in any way. He was probably being sarcastic.

More generally, I think that the critique of "nutritionism" has to be understood in a nuanced way to make any sense. IMO, nutritionism doesn't mean that we can't look in the underlying chemical elements in our food. It means that we have to be humble about the extent of scientific knowledge, and it is basically a precautionary principle. It would suggest that science should be viewed as a way to evaluate cultural traditions or anthropological evidence, which we can already see are efficacious.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 06, 2010
at 08:50 PM

Robb wasn't being sarcastic -- he's making the point that the "OMG steroids are dangerous" claims are overblown, and that there is a lot of misinformation on the topic. He doesn't "endorse" steroids (he's never taken them), but he's reporting the evidence as he sees it.

0
73405829e4cd62de86d52ef5c557dc42

on December 21, 2013
at 04:23 AM

as soon as my natural testosterone drops below a certain level I will be signing up for testosterone replacement therapy as fast as I can.

0
D072e15aaeac3a4357762cf516ec1313

(10)

on December 10, 2013
at 03:19 PM

Art de Vany still cuts the fat off his steak but I guess at 76 yrs old and at between 5 to 6% body fat and in peak condition I guess he knows what he is doing. It seems that this slightly older cadre of paleo folks are not so keen on sat fat but do take quite a few supplements.

I'll wait till he is 86 and still hauling that Rangerover before I cut back on fat.

0
7947663ae0b5333554fd462635418724

on December 10, 2013
at 02:58 AM

One note, and I am cautious about the paradigm of hormone replacement therapy, especially when it's more enhancement than replacement: steroids are artificial hormones and have a legitimate medical usage. Athletes who abuse steroids take up to 100 times or more the limits of appropriate medical usage; the difference is the difference between a pint of light beer and a pint of 151.

I am grateful for the steroids I took, within the letter and spirit of medical supervision, for nausea when I was going through chemotherapy, and the steroid I now take, within the letter and spirit of medical supervision, to replace the function of a thyroid gland destroyed by treatment. I've never used steroids to enhance weight lifting or athletic performance.

I don't believe "If a doctor prescribes it, it's OK," as in ED drugs. But "[anabolic] steroids" as the topic exists in popular imagination, are rightly to be avoided. "Steroids", or synthetic hormones as they exist in medicine, are no more the same sort of thing as anabolic steroid megadoses than enjoying a pint of light beer is the same as drinking a pint of 151.

0
1742a605736a9ef0695b0b2296e1b6b0

on December 09, 2013
at 01:34 AM

Troll [edit by Matt11, seriously, I'm not letting you post your bullshit here]

0
1742a605736a9ef0695b0b2296e1b6b0

on December 06, 2013
at 01:45 AM

Troll [edit by Matt11]

1742a605736a9ef0695b0b2296e1b6b0

on December 21, 2013
at 04:19 AM

Spam redacted.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on December 09, 2013
at 03:25 PM

No, he does not owe anything to anyone - if anything you, uh, I mean CarbSane, needs to get a life, and quit trolling - trollmas passed, look at your calendar, today isn't April 1st.

1742a605736a9ef0695b0b2296e1b6b0

on December 09, 2013
at 11:58 PM

And how is that 'trolling', exactly? CarbSane is owed an apology - and some would even argue restitution, at this point - by about half of the Paleo/Lowcarbosphere. She truly does not receive enough credit for pretty much singehandedly debunking both Gary Taubes and the Carbohydrate-Insulin Hypothesis. Credit is clearly due. The great Dr. Kurt Harris (for one) would have wanted it that way (and in his final words before departing the Paleosphere said as much).

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