2

votes

Question about lowering your immune response

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 28, 2013 at 2:17 PM

I don't understand anything - I admit it. I used to think I did, but now I know I don't.

Well, I am gluten intolerant and sensitive to all kinds of foods. I always attributed it to my gut problem, some kind of dysbiosis and SIBO.

A crazy doctor that I am seeing now prescribed some shots for me using immuno-modulating drugs. So I had five shots so far.

Yesterday, as I was passing by some bakery and the sweet aroma of freshly baked bread beckoned me and I just had to buy a pie. I ate it, loaded with gluten and sugar, a poisonous substance that is is a complete gut-destroyer.

Well, I was totally fine afterwards. As if nothing ever happened. As if I did not have that pie, but some GAPS soup or something totally wholesome. Even my gastritis did not bother me.

So... what in the world?

My guess is my immune system is in overdrive, fighting something off, and when the shots reduced my immunity - I could eat anything toxic, loaded with gluten, sugar and still be fine.

Question time:

  1. How to bring your immunity to the normal point? By restoring my gut flora? Anything else?
  2. Has anyone actually restored their gut flora to the point they can eat anything they want and feel fine afterwards?
  3. Any thoughts?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 04, 2013
at 07:03 AM

Joanna, I stopped the immunomodulators (for that reason) and I am having a special gut therapy, including some prebiotic solution and anti-parasitic medicine and even probiotics. I will let you know if this is working.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 02, 2013
at 08:03 PM

How interesting... I did not know. I am trying to find the cause because the doctors are useless. Thanks. I hope meds will work as well - I am tired of being sick and tired!

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on May 02, 2013
at 07:58 PM

you make so much sense, august. i just tried the drug humira a few months ago which is an immunosuppressant. i wound up with c diff shortly after and still haven't been able to get rid of it 5 months later.

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on May 02, 2013
at 07:56 PM

ok. i hope you can get rid of the giardiasis. having bad gut bacteria is a total pain.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 02, 2013
at 06:50 PM

It is true what you wrote, but I cannot take fermented foods at this point. I am taking a special medicine and hopefully I will be able to eat fermented foods soon.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 30, 2013
at 08:16 PM

I have stopped the immunomodulator therapy for now and I am trying to kill giardiasis, so I am on three different medicines right now. I will come back for more immunomodulator shots in 35 days. I will let you know then.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 30, 2013
at 08:14 PM

Thanks! I love immunomodulators!

A968017ef27f0a24abf64cc4460463a0

(142)

on April 30, 2013
at 07:48 PM

Zinc boosts your immune system, yogurt/probiotics rebuild gut flora and exercise helps with both.

0775549e75987e08e0ca18585a757433

(168)

on April 29, 2013
at 07:13 PM

GoodLuck =]

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 29, 2013
at 03:52 PM

My doctor told me that with the medication I am taking I cannot have any dairy, it is incompatible for whatever reason. The treatment will end in 35 days.

0775549e75987e08e0ca18585a757433

(168)

on April 29, 2013
at 03:25 PM

Do you eat yogurt?

0775549e75987e08e0ca18585a757433

(168)

on April 29, 2013
at 03:25 PM

Well Gut dysbiosis would probably cause the inflammation I suppose. Have you tried yogurt?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 29, 2013
at 07:22 AM

Interesting... sorry, I am not into drugs. If I could, I would not even take this medicine - I am on three different things right now. But I have no choice so... I've got to do it. I wonder what Hunters and Gatherers used to do for giardiasis? Or their immune systems were so strong they never got it in the first place?

F26fbc92b18f4689769d6f8746ea40f7

(334)

on April 29, 2013
at 04:39 AM

I would be really interested to know what you've been treated with! Most real (i.e. pharmacological) immunomodulators have significant side-effects.

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on April 28, 2013
at 11:28 PM

seems weird she wouldn't mention the name. there are so many drugs out there.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 28, 2013
at 09:06 PM

Oh man you are fighting C. Diff. and giardia. There are so many kinds of E. Coli, that one worries me less, since many strains are beneficial to digestion, but there are also bad ones too. Those are big baddies to have dominating your gut though. That is going to take a lot of time to recover from if fecal transplant still isn't an option for you. I have no idea if there is any science to back it up, but a dear friend of mine claims to have once kicked giardia by taking LSD. I'm not sure I'd recommend it though unless you were looking for an excuse to take hallucinogens.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 28, 2013
at 07:30 PM

Thanks for your answer!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 28, 2013
at 07:30 PM

I have heard about the hook worm thing, but I have way too many parasites to take care of even now. I have Garidasis and my gut flora is horrible - I have E. Coli and even C. Diff. My gut doctor prescribed a special treatment so I had to interrupt the immunomodulators in order to be treated for parasites. I will report the outcome. I am interested myself in how it is going to go.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 28, 2013
at 04:31 PM

I don't know - she tells me it is an "immunomodulator" whatever it means.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 28, 2013
at 03:43 PM

Because she is the most sane out of all I have been to.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 28, 2013
at 02:48 PM

Are you sure it is not gut dysbiosis though?

  • F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

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8 Answers

best answer

1
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on May 02, 2013
at 03:01 PM

Yeah, so you have no symptoms because you shut off your immune system. So the damage still gets done, but your immune system just doesn't respond. If you get exposed to a virus or bacteria after one of these shots, the immune system won't respond until the shot wears off, which means that virus or bacteria has a chance to replicate a lot more than it otherwise would. Supposedly a similar effect can be achieved with really high Omega-3 doses.

So, I figure the doctor is attempting to convince your immune system to respond less dramatically to any perceived insult than it does now. Seth Roberts has long suggested that the real way to set the immune system response is to add more fermented foods. The immune system calibrates itself more appropriately that way, but in our day and age of hyper-sterility and pasteurized foods, the immune system is likely to go completely haywire.

You've probably tried that, given that you've been here for a while. Currently I take some of those pearls with Reuteri in it. I eat some raw carrot. And I am trying the resistant starch thing Nikoley put up on his blog. It does seem to help, but I have only been doing it for a week or so, and I am not managing 50g of potato starch a day (more like a tbsp a day), so it will likely take a while for me to know for sure.

The ad link to bizrate does not come from me. I am actually suggesting supplementation at this level is a bad thing, so it creates a funny context and I am guessing some really unfortunately contexts may occur if this sort of advertising is pursued wholesale.

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on May 02, 2013
at 07:58 PM

you make so much sense, august. i just tried the drug humira a few months ago which is an immunosuppressant. i wound up with c diff shortly after and still haven't been able to get rid of it 5 months later.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 02, 2013
at 06:50 PM

It is true what you wrote, but I cannot take fermented foods at this point. I am taking a special medicine and hopefully I will be able to eat fermented foods soon.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 04, 2013
at 07:03 AM

Joanna, I stopped the immunomodulators (for that reason) and I am having a special gut therapy, including some prebiotic solution and anti-parasitic medicine and even probiotics. I will let you know if this is working.

2
Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 30, 2013
at 07:17 PM

So... what in the world?

Immunomodulaters suppress the immune system, so it's not really a surprise that you're not having allergic (or near-allergic / sensitivity-type) reactions any longer.

The question for you is going to be "will the immunomodulation therapy stick?"

For example, I have recurring psoriasis (an overactive immune response condition) on my foot. I can alleviate the symptoms with soothing aides which sometimes makes the psoriasis "go away". However, sometimes it comes back right after I stop applying the aides, and other times it stays away for a year or more.

Immunomodulators are not a medication I would want to be on indefinitely. Like corticosteroids, they can serve their purpose, but they are not medications you should want to be on for very long. However, they just might be what you need to "reset" your immune system response to certain foods.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 30, 2013
at 08:14 PM

Thanks! I love immunomodulators!

2
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 28, 2013
at 06:56 PM

That is awesome the treatment is working. That is the goal isn't it, to be able to be a flexible omnivore. I've gone through phases where nothing bothers my belly, and others where even one bite of something can screw me up for days. I wonder if the shots work with the same immune system channels that pregnancy or parasites use. Many people with food sensitivities report them disappearing when pregnant, and autoimmune diseases are much less common in populations where parasitic infections are common.

I was able to eat bread with impunity during my first pregnancy, after not being able to tolerate it for years leading up it. I have also noticed that after eating really well for a about a year, I was healed enough that cheats didn't throw me off as much anymore. There is the risk of going completely off the rails diet wise when you don't have the feedback of inflammatory symptoms (or maybe that is just my weakness). It is much harder for me to resist temptations when I don't fear the pain that might follow. Which does sometimes make me wonder if there is not pain, is there really damage.

If for some reason the shots become less effective, or you change your mind about what you want to try, Helminthic therapy, where you find a doctor who will purposefully infect you with a controlled amount of parasites like hook worm. I know, it sounds freaky, but the little bastards have a very clever way of disabling part of your body's immune response the same way a fetus does so they can live in you without being attacked, and you get symptom relied as a side effect.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 28, 2013
at 09:06 PM

Oh man you are fighting C. Diff. and giardia. There are so many kinds of E. Coli, that one worries me less, since many strains are beneficial to digestion, but there are also bad ones too. Those are big baddies to have dominating your gut though. That is going to take a lot of time to recover from if fecal transplant still isn't an option for you. I have no idea if there is any science to back it up, but a dear friend of mine claims to have once kicked giardia by taking LSD. I'm not sure I'd recommend it though unless you were looking for an excuse to take hallucinogens.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 28, 2013
at 07:30 PM

I have heard about the hook worm thing, but I have way too many parasites to take care of even now. I have Garidasis and my gut flora is horrible - I have E. Coli and even C. Diff. My gut doctor prescribed a special treatment so I had to interrupt the immunomodulators in order to be treated for parasites. I will report the outcome. I am interested myself in how it is going to go.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 29, 2013
at 07:22 AM

Interesting... sorry, I am not into drugs. If I could, I would not even take this medicine - I am on three different things right now. But I have no choice so... I've got to do it. I wonder what Hunters and Gatherers used to do for giardiasis? Or their immune systems were so strong they never got it in the first place?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 28, 2013
at 07:30 PM

Thanks for your answer!

2
089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on April 28, 2013
at 04:26 PM

What shots are these? Just wondering since ive probably taken them at some point.

F26fbc92b18f4689769d6f8746ea40f7

(334)

on April 29, 2013
at 04:39 AM

I would be really interested to know what you've been treated with! Most real (i.e. pharmacological) immunomodulators have significant side-effects.

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on April 28, 2013
at 11:28 PM

seems weird she wouldn't mention the name. there are so many drugs out there.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 28, 2013
at 04:31 PM

I don't know - she tells me it is an "immunomodulator" whatever it means.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 30, 2013
at 08:16 PM

I have stopped the immunomodulator therapy for now and I am trying to kill giardiasis, so I am on three different medicines right now. I will come back for more immunomodulator shots in 35 days. I will let you know then.

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on May 02, 2013
at 07:56 PM

ok. i hope you can get rid of the giardiasis. having bad gut bacteria is a total pain.

2
00cd3b6f51530a6832fcda1712edbec3

(2411)

on April 28, 2013
at 03:36 PM

Why are you seeing a doctor you think is crazy?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 28, 2013
at 03:43 PM

Because she is the most sane out of all I have been to.

2
0775549e75987e08e0ca18585a757433

on April 28, 2013
at 02:40 PM

Inflammation. You have to get a hold of inflammation if you want to solve a systemic problem like that.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 28, 2013
at 02:48 PM

Are you sure it is not gut dysbiosis though?

0775549e75987e08e0ca18585a757433

(168)

on April 29, 2013
at 03:25 PM

Well Gut dysbiosis would probably cause the inflammation I suppose. Have you tried yogurt?

0775549e75987e08e0ca18585a757433

(168)

on April 29, 2013
at 07:13 PM

GoodLuck =]

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 29, 2013
at 03:52 PM

My doctor told me that with the medication I am taking I cannot have any dairy, it is incompatible for whatever reason. The treatment will end in 35 days.

1
75d65450b6ff0be7b969fb321f1200ac

(2506)

on May 02, 2013
at 07:41 PM

VB, I assume the "immuno-modulating drugs" you took are along the lines of Enbrel and Humira. These drugs are commonly prescribed for sufferers of certain autoimmune diseases of the gut (Crohn's,..) and elsewhere (psoriasis, RA, ..). As I understand it these drugs do not suppress the immune system but rather tweak the inflammation pathway such that an inflammatory response is muted. These drugs do not suppress your immune system, nor do they treat the cause of your problem. Their main purpose: eliminate symptoms of autoimmune disease. They have nothing to do with your gut flora.

It is possible that you received an injection of methotrexate, which indeed is a systemic immune system suppressor. But it is more likely you would have been prescribed this drug in pill form.

At any rate, I am much more a "find a cause then treat it" than a "just get rid of the symptoms" kind of person ... I assume you are too. However after years of suffering I can easily understand where one simply wants to regain normal and strength. And so on that note I hope these meds work for you. No one needs to suffer indefinitely.

_Lazza

PS - of course if you took some other sort of drug then all this is a big "NEVER MIND"!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 02, 2013
at 08:03 PM

How interesting... I did not know. I am trying to find the cause because the doctors are useless. Thanks. I hope meds will work as well - I am tired of being sick and tired!

0
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 04, 2013
at 07:10 AM

I wish I could pick more than one answer because all the answers provided me with very valuable information and gave me something to think about.

Thank you for your input, I learned so much!

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