3

votes

Please verify this is misinformation about the Paleo approach

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created July 26, 2012 at 2:15 PM

http://altmed.creighton.edu/Paleodiet/Foodlist.html

Hi everybody, I found this site while performing a google search (I was actually looking up where black eyed peas might fit in my diet) and I am pretty annoyed at what I perceive to be clear misrepresentations of what the Paleo diet is about.

3 categories of foods: Good stuff, stuff you can eat in moderation, and stuff to avoid.

They've put the diet sodas (complete with acknowledgment of aspartame and assorted other sweeteners) AND alcohol in the 'Have in Moderation' section, and what's in the 'Foods to Avoid' section? - all dairy foods - all fatty meats - fruit juices - honey So it's ok to have artificial sweetener and booze, but honey and milk is out? And removing fatty meats from the diet makes it no longer Paleo. In my opinion they've completely missed the point.

So I did some more digging and I found something proffered as counter-arguments http://altmed.creighton.edu/paleodiet/Disagreements.html

The arguments put forward for NOT eating Paleo are all based on the demonstrably flawed notion that high-protein (and yes sometimes fatty) foods cause obesity.

wtf.

35c8f0c35da258ac54165ef14195e0b8

(167)

on July 31, 2012
at 12:15 AM

Good info. Thanks!

E246df7366ba4b48f75b53378ed33282

(424)

on July 27, 2012
at 08:23 AM

I don't think there's all that much difference between the 1st and 2nd editions of 'The Paleo Diet' so it's probably not worth buying the updated version. However, Cordain has written a new book 'The Paleo Answer' which I believe has a lot of new stuff in it, plus I've heard he's altered his stance on saturated fats and this is reflected in this book. I don't have a copy of this new book, but if you're going to buy a new Cordain book, it's probably best to go for this one rather than the 2nd edition of 'The Paleo Diet'.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 26, 2012
at 05:02 PM

up-to-date info can still be wrong. I guess my comment was that there was not intent to mislead...

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on July 26, 2012
at 04:56 PM

Unfortunately, Cordain's book is the source for paleo by the mainstream media and most other interested parties. How long will this madness continue?

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 26, 2012
at 04:31 PM

Out-of-date info can still be wrong

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 26, 2012
at 04:30 PM

@ben61820....agreed that nuts in moderation is not bad, but I don't think they should be in the consume as much as you want category.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 26, 2012
at 04:19 PM

Wrong -- Someone puts together a website where they put false data. Out-of-date -- Someone puts together a website called "Paleodiet food list" and pulls a table from a book called, "The Paleo Diet" that was written in 2001 and updated to change some of the categorization in the 2010 version.

35c8f0c35da258ac54165ef14195e0b8

(167)

on July 26, 2012
at 04:01 PM

Your point is valid. In the sense that this makes it hard to study, the lack of uniformity is a weakness. From the perspective that we're all subtly physiologically different, it could be considered a strength.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:46 PM

Nothin wrong with nuts. Context is very important: if one is healthy and eat good whole foods regularly there is nothing bad with nut consumption. Whole raw unsalted nuts are fine. A person's whole diet and whole health is crucial.

782d92f4127823bdfb2ddfcbcf961d0e

(5231)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:46 PM

oops, was canola ok in a previous edition?

35c8f0c35da258ac54165ef14195e0b8

(167)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:45 PM

His updated book no longer recommends Canola oil. He also used to tell people to cook with flax seed oil, which is crazy. He doesn't recommend that anymore either.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:43 PM

This is the exact problem with the idea of the paleo diet: there is no definition. With no identity, no definition, there can be comparisons with other diets, no studies done. You're left with only anecdotes of "I feel good when I eat potatoes" "I feel bad when I eat lean chicken" etc. unfortunately experiences like this will never impact people other than the person experiencing them.

35c8f0c35da258ac54165ef14195e0b8

(167)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:43 PM

Agreed! Do you think his updated book is worth buying? From what is available to read on amazon.com, I can't really tell what is all that different (aside from what you mention in your post). The menu even appears basically the same (although not all of it was available for viewing).

782d92f4127823bdfb2ddfcbcf961d0e

(5231)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:42 PM

Canola is on the list of acceptable fats yet Cordain does not recommend them. Where did that come from?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:33 PM

I'd say Cordain is still 70-80% correct.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 26, 2012
at 03:30 PM

Can you explain the difference between wrong and out-of-date? The world is flat....is that wrong or out-of-date? Asbestos is safe....wrong or out-of-date.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 26, 2012
at 02:59 PM

If by different, you mean mostly wrong.

5e5ff249c9161b8cd96d7eff6043bc3a

(4713)

on July 26, 2012
at 02:58 PM

Shouldn't that be rule #3 though? I thought it was: Paleo rule #1: You do not talk about paleo; Paleo rule #2: You do not talk about paleo; and Paleo rule #3: There is no one true way to do paleo.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 26, 2012
at 02:57 PM

It's Cordain-esque Paleo circa 2001. Not bogus, just different.

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6 Answers

5
276a5e631b62f8e0793987c0496364bb

(1644)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:17 PM

"This list was obtained from the book Paleo Diet by Loren Cordain"

'nuff said.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on July 26, 2012
at 04:56 PM

Unfortunately, Cordain's book is the source for paleo by the mainstream media and most other interested parties. How long will this madness continue?

5
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 26, 2012
at 02:47 PM

Paleo rule #1: There is no one true way to do paleo.

If there was but one true way, then PH would cease to exist.

5e5ff249c9161b8cd96d7eff6043bc3a

(4713)

on July 26, 2012
at 02:58 PM

Shouldn't that be rule #3 though? I thought it was: Paleo rule #1: You do not talk about paleo; Paleo rule #2: You do not talk about paleo; and Paleo rule #3: There is no one true way to do paleo.

3
E246df7366ba4b48f75b53378ed33282

(424)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:20 PM

Reading through that list it looks very familiar. I think the information on that site is taken pretty much verbatim from Cordain's The Paleo Diet. In fact, looking at it again, there's an acknowledgement near the top of the page to say just that!

Depending on how much you agree with Cordain will determine how much of the page you think is misinformation!

I think Cordain's book is generally good but he does (did?) have a thing about saturated fat, hence all the recommendations for lean meat. I don't have my copy handy, but if I remember correctly, this was something to do with farmed meat having more fat than game meat, plus a different fatty acid profile.

In the book, Cordain suggested different levels of adherence to a strict Paleo diet, ranging from 80%-100% depending on your goals and health status. I think the diet sodas are there for people who aren't 100% strict about the diet. They're not 'recommended' as such but they're supposed to be a better choice than regular soft drinks. Fruit juice and honey are not recommended due to their high sugar/low fibre content.

They've made a bit of a mix up with the information about nuts and seeds. If you notice, nuts and seeds appear in both the 'recommended' and 'eat in moderation' sections. The recommendations about oils are out of date too. In the second edition of The Paleo Diet Cordain says he no longer recommends canola oil.

In summary, it's not a terribly useful page but I don't think it's deliberately setting out to 'misinform'. It's taken slightly outdated information from one Paleo scientist/author and presented it out of context in a not very helpful way. They've tried to cram Cordain's book into one table and not made a terribly good job of it!

I agree that the 'counterpoints'(by which I think they mean 'counter-arguments') page is not very helpful or well written.

35c8f0c35da258ac54165ef14195e0b8

(167)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:43 PM

Agreed! Do you think his updated book is worth buying? From what is available to read on amazon.com, I can't really tell what is all that different (aside from what you mention in your post). The menu even appears basically the same (although not all of it was available for viewing).

E246df7366ba4b48f75b53378ed33282

(424)

on July 27, 2012
at 08:23 AM

I don't think there's all that much difference between the 1st and 2nd editions of 'The Paleo Diet' so it's probably not worth buying the updated version. However, Cordain has written a new book 'The Paleo Answer' which I believe has a lot of new stuff in it, plus I've heard he's altered his stance on saturated fats and this is reflected in this book. I don't have a copy of this new book, but if you're going to buy a new Cordain book, it's probably best to go for this one rather than the 2nd edition of 'The Paleo Diet'.

35c8f0c35da258ac54165ef14195e0b8

(167)

on July 31, 2012
at 12:15 AM

Good info. Thanks!

2
35c8f0c35da258ac54165ef14195e0b8

(167)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:28 PM

When I read Loren Cordain's Book, The Paleo Diet he had three menu plans set out that became increasingly strict. The first phase allowed for diet soda and alcohol in moderation -- I assume that the idea is that someone on the SAD diet could ease into a Paleo lifestyle without having to relinquish their vices all at once. The next phase reduces the amount of alcohol and diet soda you are allotted, and the final diet plan allows for little to none of those things. You can see why it's possible then that some folks out there might draw the conclusion that these items are paleo friendly. Cordain explains that they're not, but the site seems to have pulled info from the end of his book. Perhaps they didn't read the entire book and just pulled the bullet points from the back?

I recently made the mistake of trying Cordain's phase one menu (even though I have been doing something close to the Paleo diet for about five years now). Phase one was so high carb that I actually gained weight (the only explanation I can think of is that he's attempting to replace people's sugar habits with dry fruit, because there was a lot of that). My boyfriend, the pizza eating grad student, dropped fifteen pounds! He still drinks beer occasionally, which isn't paleo, but he eats better than he ever has and it's because the book allows for some concessions. Initially, I think the strictest form of the paleo diet might be something that only the most dedicated are willing to endeavor to, although I'd like to think that others will love how they feel and try taking it further. Anyway, this is a rambly way of saying that I think you're correct. Booze and diet soda (especially diet soda) are not paleo. However, I don't want the diet to come off as so fanatically strict that it alienates people from taking steps towards trying a way of eating that I think is really onto something. That said, the website you posted contains partial info, which is problematic.

1
C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 26, 2012
at 02:25 PM

Yes, it is pretty much a bogus, not very accurate or informative site. It also lists nuts as Good stuff, which should be in the eat in moderation category due to generally higher Omega-6. If you are looking for a good list, many of us on Paleohacks can provide one, but for the site referenced, ignore everything on it.

35c8f0c35da258ac54165ef14195e0b8

(167)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:45 PM

His updated book no longer recommends Canola oil. He also used to tell people to cook with flax seed oil, which is crazy. He doesn't recommend that anymore either.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 26, 2012
at 02:59 PM

If by different, you mean mostly wrong.

782d92f4127823bdfb2ddfcbcf961d0e

(5231)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:42 PM

Canola is on the list of acceptable fats yet Cordain does not recommend them. Where did that come from?

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 26, 2012
at 04:30 PM

@ben61820....agreed that nuts in moderation is not bad, but I don't think they should be in the consume as much as you want category.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:33 PM

I'd say Cordain is still 70-80% correct.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:46 PM

Nothin wrong with nuts. Context is very important: if one is healthy and eat good whole foods regularly there is nothing bad with nut consumption. Whole raw unsalted nuts are fine. A person's whole diet and whole health is crucial.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 26, 2012
at 02:57 PM

It's Cordain-esque Paleo circa 2001. Not bogus, just different.

782d92f4127823bdfb2ddfcbcf961d0e

(5231)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:46 PM

oops, was canola ok in a previous edition?

0
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 26, 2012
at 03:16 PM

Cordian allows diet soda which is where this comes from (almost verbatim) it's not exactly wrong, just out-of-date.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 26, 2012
at 04:31 PM

Out-of-date info can still be wrong

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 26, 2012
at 04:19 PM

Wrong -- Someone puts together a website where they put false data. Out-of-date -- Someone puts together a website called "Paleodiet food list" and pulls a table from a book called, "The Paleo Diet" that was written in 2001 and updated to change some of the categorization in the 2010 version.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 26, 2012
at 03:30 PM

Can you explain the difference between wrong and out-of-date? The world is flat....is that wrong or out-of-date? Asbestos is safe....wrong or out-of-date.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 26, 2012
at 05:02 PM

up-to-date info can still be wrong. I guess my comment was that there was not intent to mislead...

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