30

votes

Parents pissed at health teacher teaching paleo

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created April 12, 2012 at 1:29 AM

I???m in need of some info in fairly quick order. I teach high school health, and my nutrition unit is 100% Paleo.

As you can imagine, I???ve had more upset parents when teaching this unit than I have with sex ed.

Once a kid goes home and informs the parents that they can???t eat grains, legumes and dairy, the parents get a bit pissed.

To my question:

What are your top 5 (science based) reasons to not eat???? 1. Grains 2. Legumes 3. Dairy

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Some vegetables give people side effects as well.

Ccacf7567273244733bc991af4ac42ed

(5198)

on April 15, 2012
at 08:49 AM

Ice-cream. I cannot get ice-cream from vegetables no matter how hard I've tried.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 13, 2012
at 07:30 PM

@Raquel..no, I agree with you. The point is that DurianRider is going to focus on research that advocates against eating meat and high on sugar. He has his own beliefs, and he'll selectively pick those studies out that support him.

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on April 13, 2012
at 04:14 PM

To be fair to Durianrider, he advocates a fruit diet, not a grain diet.

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on April 13, 2012
at 04:13 PM

I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean by "science".

Fab409ac4a30957e3ed508514f7bff02

(295)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:46 PM

@Sunny, I said he links to the studies. Obviously it's the studies you want to focus on. The website is just a jumping off point.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:49 AM

Some of the top sources for avoiding grains, legumes, and dairy are books. For me it has been these books; Wheat Belly (for grains), Whole Soy Story (for legumes), and the dairy chapter of the Paleo Answer.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:47 AM

You MUST admit, you have to see how easy it was for us all to misinterpret your initial question. Maybe a re-phrasing of your statements would be something like . . . your "nutrition unit is 100% Paleo-friendly" (sounds less dogmatic ;) )?

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:26 AM

I had a PE teacher teach us "The Zone" back in my 9th grade year for nutrition. Honestly, I think it's what made me so comfortable with the concept of paleo 10 years later as an adult. The concept of eating whole foods, avoiding a excess grains, etc was great as a teenager. I had a great physique back when I ate zone-esque... it was college and post-college poverty that made me blow up. Kudos for being brave. I just wouldn't call it "paleo" just in case people accuse you of teaching a fad diet.

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:51 AM

Don't let conformation bias get in the way of science. I don't tell kids to not eat dairy, I was asking a question. I just ask the question... What can you get from dairy that you can't get from veggies with-out the possible side effects?

863fbe3ea7cacba9a77b19a09bf445cf

on April 13, 2012
at 02:47 AM

By the way, I just realized I spelled your name wrong in my first comment above. Sorry.

863fbe3ea7cacba9a77b19a09bf445cf

on April 13, 2012
at 02:46 AM

(continued) Mark has a lot of info about dairy, but here's one page: He has a lot of info on dairy, but here's one page: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-intolerance/#axzz1rstjt7VT. As Sunny Beaches says, it would be great to have your students look at primary sources (a research paper or two) if possible.

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:46 AM

@emily- Not my agenda. I do present all options. I hold food labs for the community, and teach nutrition at the post high school level. I teach the information, and let the chips fall. I have personal beliefs about food that I do at home, but I don't make blamket statemets while teaching.

863fbe3ea7cacba9a77b19a09bf445cf

on April 13, 2012
at 02:43 AM

@lemaga97, you're clearly under a ton of pressure. I feel for you. It seems like a lot people who responded were concerned about promoting dogmatism, which the paleo world sure as hell doesn't need more of. I agree with many of them that teaching the pros and cons of several diets is a good idea. That said, I'd love to help you out with your original question too. Rob's link is great. Here's another one from Mark's site laying out info about legumes: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/beans-legumes-carbs/#axzz1rstCiVC1.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:41 AM

*balanced in your approach/agenda towards healthy eating

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:40 AM

But I still don't know why you don't think you're pushing any particular idea. It seems clear that you want to push the 100% paleo idea of no grains, legumes or dairy. A lot of people here consume dairy. If you want science-based evidence to not eat those foods AND you are claiming to be balanced, then you should also present research that advocates the inclusion of these groups in their diet. Then you'll be able to claim that you are helping them make the decisions themselves.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:38 AM

Okay, and I've never been a mind reader? All you said was that parents were pissed that you told them not to eat things and you present everything as 100% paleo...that didn't sound like presenting all sides to me. You can edit your question if you don't think you represented what you meant.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:36 AM

If you want "science-based" reasons to encourage healthy eating, I'd go with something a little more research-based, rather than websites. As a high school teacher, I think you'd understand why any backing of your perspective shouldn't be from a personal website. The website will obviously be biased. I mean, DurianRider (or whatever it is) has a website as well, and is probably biased in what studies he posts. Plenty of evidence to eat high carb, right? As much as I like Mark, I don't think parents would be satisfied with a website link.

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:34 AM

I don't tell them they are bad. You made some assuptions there. I teach the pros and cons of all foods. My original lead to the question might have been misleading, but the questions at the bottom was what I was looking for.

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:30 AM

I get all that. And I know cows have been breed for tolerance over the last 100 years or so. I agree with Kresser. But at the same time, why not get the nutrients from veggies, and avoid the poker game? The US is mostly A1 right?

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:25 AM

I've never been the "don't eat that" teacher. I present all sides. What the kids take home is their conclusion.

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:23 AM

I don't push anything. I teach about food. With a huge percentage of my kids obese and type 2, I'm dealing with a different group of folks than the average hacker.

Fab409ac4a30957e3ed508514f7bff02

(295)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:19 AM

Wish I had a list of bullet points for you but all I have is google: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/ he links to the studies

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:15 AM

The "Sit-n-Get" method is long gone in our school. We do compare all foods, and I haven't had kids memorize anything since the 90's. No agenda or preaching is involved. I give kids access to information. If I did take on the lunch room, I would have to start blogging full time, and start my own LLC.

Fab409ac4a30957e3ed508514f7bff02

(295)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:25 AM

Wow, total paleohacks fail. This question just reminds me that I need to actually keep track of all of the science articles I come across and organize them instead of skimming and promptly forgetting about them. Anyways, from a quick google search I'd point you at: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/ but that's not the best answer.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:00 AM

You said that you "pissed off parents" and mentioned nothing about a whole foods approach or your district. We are not mind readers. We are giving advice based on what you told us. From this post, I get a much better idea of where you come from. Should have included actual information in the question if you wanted different answers.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 13, 2012
at 12:47 AM

Agreed. You'd be better off taking on the school lunch program rather than the kids' families here. I'd be pissed too if I was barely able to afford groceries and someone told my kid they couldn't eat rice and beans or milk anymore. Even though they aren't "paleo" those are good wholesome foods for people who don't have a negative auto-immune or digestive responses to them.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 13, 2012
at 12:37 AM

Dude, to be fair you did come across a bit gung ho with "my nutrition unit is 100% Paleo" and "informs the parents that they can’t eat grains, legumes and dairy". We can only work with what you give us, you sound perfectly reasonable in your rant right here, where was that degree of open mindedness in the question? And besides, I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is a peanut gallery (although maybe a mostly legume free one except for natto), nothing more, nothing less.

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 12:08 AM

I forgot to add that parents are upset not because of what I tought them (the kids), but more that they (parents) now don't know what to feed the kids. The parents have asked for a district "Nutrition Night" so I can teach to them. If you have kids, you understand that what is brought home is usually vastly different than what is taught.

A4587cfef29863db612c43f89c202cc1

(2053)

on April 12, 2012
at 07:17 PM

In order for the parents to get pissed, the students have to repeat what they heard in school. At least your students are listening. Pretty cool. Well done!

C61399790c6531a0af344ab0c40048f1

on April 12, 2012
at 06:01 PM

I teach Media Studies and the students had to create a product Promoting Healthy Lifestyles. I couldn't face a load of films and posters all veggie and low fat so I pointed them at Marks Daily Apple and let them get on with it. Ended up with 3 kids doing the 21 day primal challenge and their parents joined in!! One very overweight boy lost 12lbs in those 3 weeks.

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on April 12, 2012
at 04:03 PM

Excellent answer

7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on April 12, 2012
at 03:21 PM

My biological father is/was Haplogroup G2c Ashkenazi, and I have no lactose intolerance. But, a quick Google search says lactose tolerance is a dominant trait, and my biological mother is/was of English and German ancestry. I probably got my lactose tolerance from her.

24fcc21452ebe39c032be6801d6bbadd

(9812)

on April 12, 2012
at 01:38 PM

I agree with the others who suggested stressing nutrient-dense, whole foods over stressing avoidance of grains/dairy/legumes, but I don't agree with the logic of paleo just being a theory- MyPlate isn't exactly a product of scientific rigor. Anyhoo, I hope you don't get in trouble at work, but definitely consider alternate approaches! Good luck with those kiddos.

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on April 12, 2012
at 12:38 PM

"Primarily eat foods that don't have an ingredients label" is the golden rule I tell people. Whole foods are 1-ingredient foods. It's a start...

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on April 12, 2012
at 07:57 AM

I think that a good teacher encourages people to think for themselves, ask questions about things they previously didn't think about. Then a good teacher gives students the tools to find answers to these questions. Preaching a diet is proselytizing, not teaching.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on April 12, 2012
at 07:52 AM

I think if you're doing anything in which a kid comes home and says "Guess what, I can't eat X,Y and Z" you're proselytizing and not teaching. What they shoudl do is come home and say "Guess what I learned today? There's some evidence that X,Y and Z might not be all that great for us after all..."

E05b8d2c9ae8a9a92341785f342f131d

(346)

on April 12, 2012
at 05:59 AM

Why can't you just teach the different theories without proclaiming one as absolute right path? Give them the theory and some evidence and, as well as counter-theories, then encourage them to experiment and investigate for themselves. In any case, I think the majority of Paleo Hackers would disagree that ALL grains, legumes and dairy are bad for ALL people.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on April 12, 2012
at 05:28 AM

bad grammar there. whatevers

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on April 12, 2012
at 05:28 AM

Right, by definition fermented dairy or other forms that emphasize the fat over the dairy sugar isn't going to result in pronounce a lactose intolerance as much, correct? I assumed straight up milk is the main item at issue with lactose intolerance.

A0f2f0f632d42215944a798486bddde1

(1377)

on April 12, 2012
at 03:50 AM

The cronometer tip is a great idea. As a joke, let them figure out the RDAs of a school lunch. See if the nutrient density of grilled cheese and tater tots doesn't scare 'em straight.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 12, 2012
at 03:38 AM

Lactose intolerance is waaay overblown. Like most people with some Middle Eastern (Ashkenazi in my case) heritage, I am genetically lactose intolerant. Yet the culture that I inherited these genes from eats plenty of dairy foods, just not TONS of them and those that they do eat are fermented.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 12, 2012
at 03:36 AM

Reminds me of when I was 9 and my militant vegan uncle made me watch PCRM and PETA videos. The whole thought of pushing any kind of an agenda on children makes me feel nauseated. Give them the tools for scientific inquiry instead and let them discover things. Don't preach to them about things that many people even on this board eat quite happily (like dairy).

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on April 12, 2012
at 02:52 AM

One can be completely free of obesity and diabetes and follow the plate or pyramid. Sounds like you're wanting to push an agenda as opposed to covering the facts and letting your student discover what is best for each individual.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on April 12, 2012
at 02:49 AM

I'd love to see the science that supports that the majority of humans are intolerant to grains, particularly when the majority of humans eat grains with no ill effect. The last thing kids need is the paleo gospel according to paleo gurus.

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 12, 2012
at 02:43 AM

Public school teacher. I don't call it paleo, just teach about food. State mandate is My Plate, but I refuse to teach obesity and Type 2 methods of eating.

80890193d74240cab6dda920665bfb6c

(1528)

on April 12, 2012
at 02:43 AM

The ability to drink milk without issues as an adult is genetic - it's an autosomal gene on chromosome 2. It's alleles are called LAC. LAC*P is the one of interest. It's largely confined to European peoples - particularly Northern Europeans. 90% of Asians and perhaps 75% of Africans don't have it. The majority of the human race is lactose intolerant past a certain age. Thus your statement implying the majority of lactose-intolerant (LI) people are in the US is a strong error. LI is in fact a or even *the* common condition globally. http://www.cambridge.org/us/books/kiple/lactose.htm

Ae8946707ddebf0f0bfbcfc63276d823

(9402)

on April 12, 2012
at 02:22 AM

Good answer. Focus on what to eat versus what not to eat.

Ae8946707ddebf0f0bfbcfc63276d823

(9402)

on April 12, 2012
at 02:20 AM

Wow. Are you in a public school? Did you have to get your curriculum approved? I find it hard to believe something that goes against US gov't food pyramid (or plate or whatever they call it today) could get approved for a nutrition class. You're in a tough spot though. I'm not sure what I'd do... Try to teach a different class? Or, present lots of different diets with pros/cons and foster debate? Ultimately, maybe the most important thing is to teach the students how to be thoughtful about how they choose to eat.

0361cceaf703c92f99848b078bfc9f67

(225)

on April 12, 2012
at 01:33 AM

What you are doing is not a good idea. Paleo may sound good in theory, but it is still just a theory.

F02990386b12528111740ad6279ba29d

(1363)

on April 12, 2012
at 01:33 AM

wow +1 for having the courage to do that. Riskkkkyyyyy

F02990386b12528111740ad6279ba29d

(1363)

on April 12, 2012
at 01:32 AM

wow +1 for having the balls to do that. Riskkkkyyyyy

  • C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

    asked by

    (247)
  • Views
    3.9K
  • Last Activity
    1258D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

18 Answers

62
518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 12, 2012
at 02:20 AM

That's a ballsy tactic, I'll give you that! Personally, when I incorporate teaching more primal eating into my very rigid Canada Health Guidelines recommendations, I use a much sneakier approach (oh, I hope dearly my supervisors don't haunt forums in their spare time).

Instead of saying "Hey guys, you should never eat grains, legumes or dairy", I focus more on "Hey guys, here's the best way to eat- whole foods! Nothing processed! Nothing out of a box! As few ingredients as possible!". I mean, who's going to have something negative to say about that?

When it comes down to the details, I emphasize consuming plenty of greens, vegetables, safe starches, and "good proteins" (fish, beef, shellfish, chicken, duck etc). When we construct meals for examples, that's when the grains kind of naturally slide out of the picture. I talk about the importance of being aware of gluten intolerance, because it is highly under-diagnosed, and recommend that if they have ever experiences digestive upset/rashes/anxiety/bloating/allergies/asthma they may be at risk of having a gluten intolerance or celiac disease, and it's something they should consider getting tested for, or eliminate temporarily to see if any of the conditions improve. I ask them to try and replace the lower nutrient density foods, like rice or barley or other grains, with higher nutrient dense vegetables, like turnips or broccoli or kale or sweet potatoes.

I think you will rarely get a welcoming or positive response if you just come out and say "Hey everyone, here are all the things you should never have and are bad for you". People don't want to hear that, especially parents who now have a confused kid who is bugging them about everything. Taking a positive, whole foods approach will cause a lot less headache for you, and consequently, the parents.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on April 12, 2012
at 07:57 AM

I think that a good teacher encourages people to think for themselves, ask questions about things they previously didn't think about. Then a good teacher gives students the tools to find answers to these questions. Preaching a diet is proselytizing, not teaching.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:38 AM

Okay, and I've never been a mind reader? All you said was that parents were pissed that you told them not to eat things and you present everything as 100% paleo...that didn't sound like presenting all sides to me. You can edit your question if you don't think you represented what you meant.

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on April 12, 2012
at 12:38 PM

"Primarily eat foods that don't have an ingredients label" is the golden rule I tell people. Whole foods are 1-ingredient foods. It's a start...

Ae8946707ddebf0f0bfbcfc63276d823

(9402)

on April 12, 2012
at 02:22 AM

Good answer. Focus on what to eat versus what not to eat.

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:25 AM

I've never been the "don't eat that" teacher. I present all sides. What the kids take home is their conclusion.

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on April 12, 2012
at 04:03 PM

Excellent answer

19
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on April 12, 2012
at 02:47 AM

Instead of forcing it onto the students, why do you have them discover the advantages of eating whole foods? Have them design a day of food on Cronometer with the requirements that they meet nearly all nutrient needs in a reasonable calorie budget.

Or do as Richard Nikoley does, have them compare equal calorie amounts of a variety of foods and the nutrition they provide.

Discovery and inquiry is much better for learning that rote memorization and lecturing. Preaching paleo comes off as pushing an agenda, something that'll get you in hot water. Instead, let students come to the logical (paleo) conclusion themselves. And certainly, it's not the only way to eat, so if they come to a different conclusion, that's fine too.

A0f2f0f632d42215944a798486bddde1

(1377)

on April 12, 2012
at 03:50 AM

The cronometer tip is a great idea. As a joke, let them figure out the RDAs of a school lunch. See if the nutrient density of grilled cheese and tater tots doesn't scare 'em straight.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 12, 2012
at 03:36 AM

Reminds me of when I was 9 and my militant vegan uncle made me watch PCRM and PETA videos. The whole thought of pushing any kind of an agenda on children makes me feel nauseated. Give them the tools for scientific inquiry instead and let them discover things. Don't preach to them about things that many people even on this board eat quite happily (like dairy).

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:15 AM

The "Sit-n-Get" method is long gone in our school. We do compare all foods, and I haven't had kids memorize anything since the 90's. No agenda or preaching is involved. I give kids access to information. If I did take on the lunch room, I would have to start blogging full time, and start my own LLC.

17
627cf3f5d1ddfb4c2f4c96169420f55f

on April 12, 2012
at 02:15 AM

I have a better idea...

Why not explain to the kids and parents all of the amazing foods they can eat? I think its easier to explain to someone in simple terms why beef, seafood, veggies, fruits, raw whole fat dairy, etc. is great for you. It's whole, real food. Bread is not whole food. Tell them to look at the ingredients of their loaf.

Just tell the parents to look at the ingredients of all of the food they buy. Then ask them what the ingredients are in the foods you recommend to them. That may "convert" a few...

10
F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on April 12, 2012
at 11:12 AM

If I was a parent, I'd be upset too. There is still so much we don't know about these foods - look at all the division and debate among even the leaders of Paleo. So to tell impressionable kids that "grains, legumes and dairy" are bad, full-stop, seems a little heavy-handed. It's a sure-fire recipe for family conflict around the dinner table (given that the parents are probably feeding them grains, legumes and dairy) not to mention possible eating disorders, striking fear in impressionable minds about food.

I agree with others - focus more on how whole foods are healthy, and processed foods contain chemicals and additives.

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:34 AM

I don't tell them they are bad. You made some assuptions there. I teach the pros and cons of all foods. My original lead to the question might have been misleading, but the questions at the bottom was what I was looking for.

8
3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 12, 2012
at 01:39 AM

I agree with you teaching kids to not eat grains, because the vast majority of humans are intolerant to them, especially wheat's gluten, and especially the US version, which is more selected than the European variety and more difficult to break down.

For legumes, it depends on the kind of legume, and how it's been prepared. For example, lentils soaked on water for 12 hours supposedly removes most lectins, and they're generally safe. Plus they have lots of iron, manganese, folate etc. Some other legumes are more dangerous though, the Paleo-similar SCD diet has a list of which legumes are more safe than others.

I don't agree at all with you teaching kids to be away from dairy though. Sure, there are many who are dairy-intolerant, but that's mostly for cow milk (which is A1 casein instead of the more human-compatible A2 casein), and for non-fermented dairy. It's super-healthy for example to consume home-made goat kefir, fermented for 36 hours to remove most lactose. It's a super-food and a gut-healing one too. For those who are not super-intolerant, getting dairy from goats/sheep, and only butter/cream from cows, is ok. In Greece, where we mostly have goats/sheep, I never met any dairy-intolerant person. It seems that they're all in the US...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on April 12, 2012
at 02:49 AM

I'd love to see the science that supports that the majority of humans are intolerant to grains, particularly when the majority of humans eat grains with no ill effect. The last thing kids need is the paleo gospel according to paleo gurus.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on April 12, 2012
at 05:28 AM

Right, by definition fermented dairy or other forms that emphasize the fat over the dairy sugar isn't going to result in pronounce a lactose intolerance as much, correct? I assumed straight up milk is the main item at issue with lactose intolerance.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on April 12, 2012
at 05:28 AM

bad grammar there. whatevers

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 12, 2012
at 03:38 AM

Lactose intolerance is waaay overblown. Like most people with some Middle Eastern (Ashkenazi in my case) heritage, I am genetically lactose intolerant. Yet the culture that I inherited these genes from eats plenty of dairy foods, just not TONS of them and those that they do eat are fermented.

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:30 AM

I get all that. And I know cows have been breed for tolerance over the last 100 years or so. I agree with Kresser. But at the same time, why not get the nutrients from veggies, and avoid the poker game? The US is mostly A1 right?

80890193d74240cab6dda920665bfb6c

(1528)

on April 12, 2012
at 02:43 AM

The ability to drink milk without issues as an adult is genetic - it's an autosomal gene on chromosome 2. It's alleles are called LAC. LAC*P is the one of interest. It's largely confined to European peoples - particularly Northern Europeans. 90% of Asians and perhaps 75% of Africans don't have it. The majority of the human race is lactose intolerant past a certain age. Thus your statement implying the majority of lactose-intolerant (LI) people are in the US is a strong error. LI is in fact a or even *the* common condition globally. http://www.cambridge.org/us/books/kiple/lactose.htm

7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on April 12, 2012
at 03:21 PM

My biological father is/was Haplogroup G2c Ashkenazi, and I have no lactose intolerance. But, a quick Google search says lactose tolerance is a dominant trait, and my biological mother is/was of English and German ancestry. I probably got my lactose tolerance from her.

5
78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

on April 13, 2012
at 12:38 AM

Why would you delete your account (in response to your newest response)? Healthy debate is part of education. If your "agenda" is something you are passionate about, it makes sense to get a sense of other perspectives. Otherwise, how are you going to respond to these parents if you aren't willing to even give people online a chance to speak?

I don't really have much to add, but as someone who did child assessments, curriculum work and home visits with Head Start populations, I'm pretty shocked that your low-income students' parents are even involved with their children's education. Parental involvement is nearly non-existent due to perspectives of their roles in their child's lives, work schedule/obligations, beliefs in the importance of education so major props to them for voicing their opinion. The complete opposite was what I ran into in real-life and in papers.

Anyway, if free and reduced lunch is all they have access to, what do you suggest they do? It seems like even if they wanted to make better choices, they don't have the opportunity to. And school lunches in high school aren't perfect, but students can still make wiser choices.

"Once a kid goes home and informs the parents that they can???t eat grains, legumes and dairy, the parents get a bit pissed." That seems to indicate that you placed emphasis on avoidance of these items.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 13, 2012
at 12:47 AM

Agreed. You'd be better off taking on the school lunch program rather than the kids' families here. I'd be pissed too if I was barely able to afford groceries and someone told my kid they couldn't eat rice and beans or milk anymore. Even though they aren't "paleo" those are good wholesome foods for people who don't have a negative auto-immune or digestive responses to them.

4
C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

on April 13, 2012
at 01:59 AM

I'll admit my question was not a good one. The lead up was poor at best. But, at the same time, I really only wanted to know your quick 5 science based answers to the grains, legumes, dairy questions.

I wrote the question after 8 straight classes, coaching, picking up three infants, feeding them, doing dishes and laundry, with about 10 seconds to ask my question. (I know, not "paleo" for some, but as a widower, I take care of my own.)

The Socratic method is all good and well in an utpoian society, but I do not live there. Debate was not the question, or asked for.

While I enjoy the cristal ball approach of reading into a question, nobody has even tried to answer the original one.

Call me a bad person, judge me, or what ever. But before you do, at least answer the actual questions I asked.

863fbe3ea7cacba9a77b19a09bf445cf

on April 13, 2012
at 02:43 AM

@lemaga97, you're clearly under a ton of pressure. I feel for you. It seems like a lot people who responded were concerned about promoting dogmatism, which the paleo world sure as hell doesn't need more of. I agree with many of them that teaching the pros and cons of several diets is a good idea. That said, I'd love to help you out with your original question too. Rob's link is great. Here's another one from Mark's site laying out info about legumes: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/beans-legumes-carbs/#axzz1rstCiVC1.

863fbe3ea7cacba9a77b19a09bf445cf

on April 13, 2012
at 02:47 AM

By the way, I just realized I spelled your name wrong in my first comment above. Sorry.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:41 AM

*balanced in your approach/agenda towards healthy eating

863fbe3ea7cacba9a77b19a09bf445cf

on April 13, 2012
at 02:46 AM

(continued) Mark has a lot of info about dairy, but here's one page: He has a lot of info on dairy, but here's one page: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-intolerance/#axzz1rstjt7VT. As Sunny Beaches says, it would be great to have your students look at primary sources (a research paper or two) if possible.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:49 AM

Some of the top sources for avoiding grains, legumes, and dairy are books. For me it has been these books; Wheat Belly (for grains), Whole Soy Story (for legumes), and the dairy chapter of the Paleo Answer.

Fab409ac4a30957e3ed508514f7bff02

(295)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:19 AM

Wish I had a list of bullet points for you but all I have is google: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/ he links to the studies

Fab409ac4a30957e3ed508514f7bff02

(295)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:46 PM

@Sunny, I said he links to the studies. Obviously it's the studies you want to focus on. The website is just a jumping off point.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:40 AM

But I still don't know why you don't think you're pushing any particular idea. It seems clear that you want to push the 100% paleo idea of no grains, legumes or dairy. A lot of people here consume dairy. If you want science-based evidence to not eat those foods AND you are claiming to be balanced, then you should also present research that advocates the inclusion of these groups in their diet. Then you'll be able to claim that you are helping them make the decisions themselves.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:47 AM

You MUST admit, you have to see how easy it was for us all to misinterpret your initial question. Maybe a re-phrasing of your statements would be something like . . . your "nutrition unit is 100% Paleo-friendly" (sounds less dogmatic ;) )?

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:36 AM

If you want "science-based" reasons to encourage healthy eating, I'd go with something a little more research-based, rather than websites. As a high school teacher, I think you'd understand why any backing of your perspective shouldn't be from a personal website. The website will obviously be biased. I mean, DurianRider (or whatever it is) has a website as well, and is probably biased in what studies he posts. Plenty of evidence to eat high carb, right? As much as I like Mark, I don't think parents would be satisfied with a website link.

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on April 13, 2012
at 04:14 PM

To be fair to Durianrider, he advocates a fruit diet, not a grain diet.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 13, 2012
at 07:30 PM

@Raquel..no, I agree with you. The point is that DurianRider is going to focus on research that advocates against eating meat and high on sugar. He has his own beliefs, and he'll selectively pick those studies out that support him.

4
C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

on April 13, 2012
at 12:02 AM

I rushed home after work today excited to see what info you would have for me.

To say I was disappointed is a gross understatement.

Not a single person actually answered the question, and many made massive assumptions on how, and what I teach. Many had ???personal agenda??? in their comment. When I said, ???I teach 100% Paleo,??? I think many think I only teach my personal version of Paleo, or a Whole9/Wolf template.

What I should have explained is that I do present all other ideas, and let the kids decide for them selves. Paleo to me is real food (I think most of you understand the whole food thing), and that is what I teach my kids to be able to recognize.

Your version of grains and dairy are not the same as what is fed to my kids everyday. With 80% of my students on the Free/Reduced lunch program, you might understand that Sugar Smacks w/ skim chocolate milk and a muffin for breakfast, is not what we should be feeding kids at school. For lunch, they get French toast dippers with all the high fructose syrup they want. The late day snack is always some highly refined carb, usually cooked in vegetable oil.

My students don???t have access to raw dairy, or the means to buy quality dairy products. If I taught them how to eat grains WAP style, I would be wasting my time. Most have zero idea what ???grass fed??? actually means.

I should also add that 60% of the school is obese (by BMI standards), and type 2 is rampant.

I???m on the district Wellness Committee, the head of our district curriculum team, and have had approval of everything that I teach.

I came here for some help, but instead got judged and ridiculed.

With that, I say good-bye PaleoHacks. I???ll take my ???agenda??? elsewhere.

Note to moderators: Please delete my account.

Thanks, LEJ

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:00 AM

You said that you "pissed off parents" and mentioned nothing about a whole foods approach or your district. We are not mind readers. We are giving advice based on what you told us. From this post, I get a much better idea of where you come from. Should have included actual information in the question if you wanted different answers.

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 12:08 AM

I forgot to add that parents are upset not because of what I tought them (the kids), but more that they (parents) now don't know what to feed the kids. The parents have asked for a district "Nutrition Night" so I can teach to them. If you have kids, you understand that what is brought home is usually vastly different than what is taught.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 13, 2012
at 12:37 AM

Dude, to be fair you did come across a bit gung ho with "my nutrition unit is 100% Paleo" and "informs the parents that they can’t eat grains, legumes and dairy". We can only work with what you give us, you sound perfectly reasonable in your rant right here, where was that degree of open mindedness in the question? And besides, I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is a peanut gallery (although maybe a mostly legume free one except for natto), nothing more, nothing less.

4
Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on April 12, 2012
at 04:07 PM

I'd be annoyed if you told me I shouldn't eat dairy

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Some vegetables give people side effects as well.

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:51 AM

Don't let conformation bias get in the way of science. I don't tell kids to not eat dairy, I was asking a question. I just ask the question... What can you get from dairy that you can't get from veggies with-out the possible side effects?

Ccacf7567273244733bc991af4ac42ed

(5198)

on April 15, 2012
at 08:49 AM

Ice-cream. I cannot get ice-cream from vegetables no matter how hard I've tried.

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on April 13, 2012
at 04:13 PM

I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean by "science".

4
396a7bc28b014f56183019cd04436024

on April 12, 2012
at 03:09 PM

I am conflicted. One the one hand, I think it's dangerous to have teachers teach their own agenda, and the better tactic, as many others have said, is to teach investigative skills and curiosity, present options, and let kids make their own choices. And let's face it, children don't make dietary choices, their parents do. Ideally, when they get to buy their own groceries, they will make great choices thanks to you.

On the other hand, I can understand that you'd feel irresponsible teaching what you think is a dangerous diet. It's really just a war of theories, and if you feel it's worth the risk to your job, maybe it's more ethical than teaching the book. Goodness knows I have no love for public school rigidity or the FDA.

Perhaps the best way to not have angry parents is to bring them in on the front end. Say you want to present some new and different options for eating healthy, and let families choose if they want to participate. Make it easy for them - don't just drop a "No potatoes, no pasta, no milk" bombshell on them via the (not necessarily accurate) voice of their child. Instead, give some recipes they might want to try that do certain things: tasty ways of making healthy vegetables, replacing pasta, cooking sauces without cream, etc.

Helps parents feel like they are participating in an experiment for class, not being told how to eat. Helps kids learn how to eat healthy within a pyramid-structure food world.

C3d3ead4fbe7420d85037712fb086f3b

(247)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:46 AM

@emily- Not my agenda. I do present all options. I hold food labs for the community, and teach nutrition at the post high school level. I teach the information, and let the chips fall. I have personal beliefs about food that I do at home, but I don't make blamket statemets while teaching.

3
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 13, 2012
at 07:41 AM

Sorry I don't have more of these off the top of my head right now I'm about to pass out, but I'm feeling bad about the lack of positive feedback you got earlier. I did a bit of a search around pubmed, but then realized that the blogs are where it gets discussed and translated in way that might be helpful.

Grains: http://www.gnolls.org/2052/how-heart-healthy-whole-grains-make-us-fat/

Legumes: http://jdmoyer.com/2011/02/15/to-bean-or-not-to-bean-that-is-the-question-legumes-lectins-and-human-health/

Milk: I am completely agnostic about milk for kids so I don't have anything to offer there because I haven't look for it, sorry, as far as I'm concerned it is cheap nutrient dense calories covered by WIC, and most children don't develop problems with lactose until they are fully grown.

Could your class grow some pots of parsley, cilantro, dill, fennel, oregano, basil, etc? Super fresh herbs pack a mighty nutritional and flavor punch, and the kids could take some home. Potatoes, carrots, kale, chard, and collard greens are also super easy to grow, and might make fun homework projects to have each kid grow a few things to bring in for a potluck at the end of the quarter.

Why not have a nutrition movie night for the families and watch Fathead? I think it is a good starting place, and kinda shows how if you are going to eat fast food how to do it with minimal damage, and then gets into full on paleo and why veggie oil is up to no good near the end. Think baby steps here.

Maybe as a part of the movie night or during breaks or lunch at school the students could do a healthy snack fundraiser, and have a concession stand with foods you would like to see them eat.

If you or your students are in one of those food desert areas of the country you could check to see if there are any CSAs around where the students could volunteer or work after school.

It has a bit of CW saturated fat phobia and "healthy whole grains" propaganda in it, but other than that I thought Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution series was very inspiring, you could also do a screening of that, or assign it as homework to get the discussion rolling in the right direction.

I bet if you suggested Denise Minger's site (my apologies in advance to Denise for the comments you may receive) the teenage boys would be hanging on her every word, and might even learn a thing or two about statistics and how to dissect a study...not to be superficial, but she does seem to have that effect on people.

I apologize for not having come up with a direct answer sooner, but in my personal philosophy about teaching is that it is more important to teach kids how to think, rather than what to think, and the question came across more as wanting to push what you think. If you instill these kids with decent bs detector for food "science", maybe a "follow the money" game, they'll do okay.

3
193b7fb0fec8913d5ebb3b99a04d21c6

(2918)

on April 12, 2012
at 01:45 PM

Personally, I would love my kid's school to talk about more Paleo nutrition ideas, but they don't. This year it's been about how low fat dairy and whole grains are good for you, and so when my five year old comes home and tells me that his gym teacher tells him he HAS to have dairy and whole grains, I have to hold in the rage. So the question is not so much "what are the scientific facts to encourage this sort of lesson" but rather "should nutrition be taught by schools or at home"? I'd rather my kids learn about nutrition at home, obviously, and while I would appreciate a teacher like you to guide my kids toward the non-processed Paleo world, not every parent would.

3
9ba98ff40c0c4045be98682fa3e4d819

on April 12, 2012
at 05:18 AM

None of this should come as any surprise to us. The simple metabolic chemistry underlying the "paleo" paradigm is deeply threatening to some of the most powerful global agribusiness corporations on the planet: Cargill, W.R. Grace, ConAgra, Monsanto, Novartis. Whole governments will find the economic consequences of widespread adoption (or perhaps I should say RE-adoption) of some version of paleo-motivated diet to be catastrophic for whatever existing grain-based infrastructures sustain their agriculture. The implications of all this go so far beyond mere diet, personal health and lifestyle as to shake the consumption habits of civilization as have experienced it so far. I'm not surprised that so many people and institutions might be either ideologically or emotionally or financially affected by the radical implications of the paleo diet argument Not surprised at all. I'm guessing that soon enough simply exposing the research data to the next generation in schools might come to be considered a very radical or "subversive" discourse.
My strongest arguments focus on the dual inflammatory/addictive character of the specific proteins involved. And the self-evident purpose of these inflammatory proteins as essentially "toxins" to protect the survivability of the various species of grasses (grains) from the appetites, tastes and digestive vulnerability of their natural animal predators. This inflammatory (and tolerance-building or addictive) effect can be seen most dramatically in the cases of both gluten and gliadiin with respect to Celiac Disease. With dairy they can be seen in the lactose intolerance that is the natural genetic legacy of much (or most) of the world's populations. I'm still unclear on whether the latter pertains only to cows' milk or also includes sheep and goat milk. I'm still just a student myself.

1
6f338117b85c981bcc9f936f2f20d8ef

on May 18, 2012
at 04:35 PM

Why not just approach it as not eating processed foods/junk food? It's not the food pyramid anymore, it's the "plate", which - while not perfect - is about a million times better than the pyramid?

Advocate rice, potatoes, brown rice as opposed to white flour. Talk about the negatives of sugar. This is something most experts agree on and doesn't "sound" as crazy. It's how I explain my diets to others, and generally - while people don't want to try it themselves, I get a lot more respect for this one instead of saying "I cut out X and Y, oh and Z will kill ya soon."

0
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on May 18, 2012
at 06:12 PM

Start with the Grandaddy of them all. Cordain's published research. This one appears to address grains, in particular, and there are sure to be answers for the others in that list.

It is indeed hard to get real answers here. Things have taken a dull turn since twitter, facebook, and the like has turned people from producing well thought out blog posts to writing snarky answers for likes. And it is pretty damn phenomenal the hate people have for the paleo diet on a site that purports to be about the paleo diet.

(Of course, there is a limit to blogging. It is easy to flounder because there doesn't seem much left to say. It is also easy to get a false sense of achievement by constantly commenting in less than 140 characters.)

0
82facd8a79f45407a5888314e44aa2ca

on May 18, 2012
at 03:55 PM

I'm a teacher who is also interested in teaching a paleo/primal unit and I was wondering if you'd be willing to share your resources?

0
6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

on April 15, 2012
at 08:32 AM

I have certainly had feedback from my children that they have been told that what I eat for breakfast (bacon, eggs) was bad for me whereas cereal (sugared grains junk which most people eat) with milk is better.

0
D45e43b08cd99a04f5d4294a871e1078

(1010)

on April 12, 2012
at 09:34 AM

it must feel good to be so real with people!

Second, screw trying to help kids in a public school, u are going to get fired! I'd stop with the paleo teaching.

Be healthy urself, screw helping people who aren't going to help you back.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!