13

votes

Not everyone is adapted best to paleo. Agree or Disagree and Why?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created June 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM

I will be sharing my thoughts with you about this but I'd like to hear your beliefs

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Hi Ben - I guess this right here proves the point about "what is paleo?". I disagree with dairy in the list. I guess my Archevore bias at play here. I think excess fructose and O-6 vis-a-vis vegetable oils would be on my list in lieu of dairy. Definitely agree with the grains, though I eat moderate amounts of white rice given it is a relatively benign source of starch. Cheers!

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on October 07, 2012
at 06:40 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcyhKU4qv2A&feature=player_embedded

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on July 23, 2011
at 11:54 AM

Ben is a foot and I appear to be his splinter. But I still ride along and watch his journey. Adaptation will eventually come.

7df8f3cc7f1475c3ecbbd4a4feb87d04

(514)

on June 15, 2011
at 04:08 AM

I'm also stumped by LFRV - Gazelle, or anyone? In any case, I just wanted to say that I'm loving this conversation, seems pretty rare from what I've seen of paleohacks so far and I wish we had more discussions along these female-specific lines.

26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

(7967)

on June 14, 2011
at 02:08 AM

Maybe you're just not talking to the right people. I have known, worked with, and spoken with a lot of black people from poor families or who are poor themselves (working adults) and often on assistance. In high school one of my better black friends got diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. At this one diner I worked at, both my managers (black women in their 40s and 60s) were apple shapes with tiny legs, huge bellies. I remember the cooks used to make fun of their shapes (they gave as good as they got, haha). It's weird that our experiences are so different.

7df8f3cc7f1475c3ecbbd4a4feb87d04

(514)

on June 14, 2011
at 01:38 AM

Exactly, when you can choose from so many different types of meats, birds & their eggs, seafood, veggies, fruits & berries, cheeses (goat, sheep & others?) if you include dairy, even insects! Lots of exotic stuff out there as well as edible greens or berries in the backyard that people never think to forage for. Anyone who calls paleo boring doesn't have much of an imagination, or is quite ignorant about food.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on June 14, 2011
at 12:36 AM

@ben, we're of a same or very similar mind, I think, except that my third "absolute" item for removal is SUGAR rather than milk products. Milk is way down the chain for me. I do think that The Quilt has a point of argument with grains vs 0-6/3. He states below he sees O-6 as a greater problem. I have to admit that this *is* a difficult one and I really can't pick between the. Both=poison. And the effects of both are most typically not acute, but cumulative. But you'd have to put a gun to my head to get me to eat grain. Russian roulette and I didn't win. Very fortunate to be alive and well now.

6235e0b7e3c4c4b9df3d926829bc32f6

(333)

on June 13, 2011
at 11:10 PM

Gazelle, what do you mean by LFRV?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 13, 2011
at 11:04 PM

thanks Jack.....youre correct in your interpretation.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 13, 2011
at 11:03 PM

this is true and women also lose GH by 40 yrs old as well. Culturally very few women do HIIT but if they knew biochemistry tendencies they would. Lowest GH levels are seen in women with fibromyalgia. I have never seen one with a normal IGF-1

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on June 13, 2011
at 08:10 PM

Ben - Doc is saying that diet is a non factor in that specific example of Okinawans. Also, who in the world says that's the definition of Paleo? That's surely not my understanding of it. I believe I fit in with the Paleo crowd, yet I eat dairy.

8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

(580)

on June 13, 2011
at 06:06 PM

Yeah a friend of mine called paleo "super limiting", i asked how come, he said cause i can't have pasta or cheese. I was like how can those to be something that makes him call it "super limiting"?? All this meat, all these eggs, all these sweet potatoes!?!? And is it so hard to believe that I actually ENJOY eating 3 pounds of vegetables in a day?!?

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on June 13, 2011
at 04:57 PM

i dont, and trust me i see a lot of blacks(i am in mississippi) but your right, they do have health problems from stats i just havent met any also, 99% of the blacks here are on food stamps buying candy, chips, 20oz sodas, hoho's, pie and junk on EBT food stamps...

26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

(7967)

on June 13, 2011
at 04:17 PM

Every time I go to my local Walmart (most customers there are black) I can see black women with skinny legs/hips and big bellies, and plenty of black people in wheelchairs.

26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

(7967)

on June 13, 2011
at 04:15 PM

I can kind of see your point re: black Americans vs white; the apple shaped body seems to be rarer among African American women, and people of West African descent (which most African American people are) have more bone and muscle mass, regardless of fat mass, than most people of other ethnic groups. But I know personally and have seen black people with all of the above, Mal (I live right outside Philadelphia which is about 40% black). Statistically, diabetes is epidemic in African Americans - they have 2x the risk of non-Hispanic whites.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 13, 2011
at 03:56 PM

"diet is a non factor." is ridiculous. Diet is a factor in how long and how well any one lives, period. I'm not saying it'll fix everything, but it is indeed a factor for all human beings, period. There are no human beings whose lives are not altered by what they feed themselves. It all counts. To differing degrees of course, but fuel is a factor for all human beings, period.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 13, 2011
at 01:00 PM

No they would not.....but longevity is conferred to those folks by one base change in the first cytochrome. It has little to do with their diet as most believe. Diet is important but for some it is a non factor. That blue zone is one of them

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 13, 2011
at 11:55 AM

Like always i struggle to make any kind of sense from your comment, K. Regardless of the cytochrome-status, or what levee they may be at wrapped up in your quilt, I maintain that the exclusion of grains, legumes, and dairy would not hurt the Okinawans. And why does longevity=our goal? A certain amount, yes of course. But quality of life takes precedence in my own view over 5-10 more years at the end.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 13, 2011
at 11:51 AM

@mem, i kind of like disabesity. Message comes through:) And I too question how the removal of grains, legumes, and dairy would HURT anyone in the stroke belt.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on June 13, 2011
at 04:49 AM

Correction: "diabesity" ridden area.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on June 13, 2011
at 04:48 AM

The Quilt, I am very interested to hear you expound on this as I live in the stroke belt and it is very hard for me to imagine that it would in any way be negative for the large number of African Americans in my area to lose the grains, sugar and cook with good fats to get O-6/3 in better ratio. It's a disabesity ridden area! AS previously stated, beyond the above 3 that I consider backbones of paleo/primal/ancestral eating to avoid neolithic disease causing agents, everything else is up for grabs and should be *idividualized.*

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 13, 2011
at 04:13 AM

I think omega sixes are the biggest factor in disease in this country not grains.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 13, 2011
at 04:12 AM

there are many conditions that require a non paleo diet. Infact there are so many mismatches that cause plateaus it is amazing no one is really talking about it. That is why I asked the question. I want to gauge the knowledge of its existence. One of the greatest mismatches resides in the stroke belt of the USA in African Americans.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 13, 2011
at 04:08 AM

ben you believe that when you the science is not laid out. What if I was to to tell that we know why the okinawans are a blue zone already but it is not well known......its true. There supercentenarians have a genetic mutation at the first cytochrome of electron transport that make this complex less leaky and that is the main reason for their longevity. It is irrespective of their diet. This is why the science is critical. Diet is critical but there are times when it is not. And it appears in supercentenarians diet may not be at all critical.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 13, 2011
at 04:03 AM

Thanks, I fixed them. I will need to make sure the links work before I post but I am not facile yet with wordpress. No excuses.

1d9af5db8833413037be3ac48964714f

(3789)

on June 13, 2011
at 01:26 AM

Wow! If that's the definition of paleo, then I guess I am missing it. I thought it had something to do with real, unprocessed food and an approach to eating informed by knowledge of evolution. Now that I know that it is only three forbidden foods, I can go eat all kinds of garbage and stay healthy!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 13, 2011
at 01:25 AM

Dexter- What is a PKU to do? Cry! No, I think they're generally okay with their diets, because they start them from a young age and hence are not accustomed to meat. They have to buy these special low-phenylalinine protein shakes to survive. While I don't think the Quilt was considering this type of population, there may very well be less serious or even subclinical conditions that require a non-paleo diet. (that I know nothing about, as I'm not a dietician)

792634a784ec6a636c3137d0903e11b4

(1196)

on June 13, 2011
at 12:59 AM

Also, reminded by the quote above, I'm NZ Maori by descent - apparently we have high rates of lactose intolerance and are not all that far off a fully evolutionary diet consisting mostly of seafood, birds and tubers. That's what my great grandparents ate.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on June 13, 2011
at 12:55 AM

We will assume that "everyone" is those who do not have medical conditions that necessitate specifically formulated medically ordered special diets. (That would be a no brainer and I don't believe it is included in your question's intent...)

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on June 13, 2011
at 12:53 AM

I think we need to put the original question in the context of basically healthy people who do not have nutritional needs that require a carefully formulated medical special diet. I do not hink it was The Quilt's intent to consider these population, though I may be wrong...

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 13, 2011
at 12:21 AM

Kamal, thanks for the heads up on PKU. It is interesting to read that foods that contain only fat and sugar...ie no protein at all... are just fine for consumption by a PKUer. Sugar comes from fruit. Now what is a PKU Type I to do? A totally fat diet? Con we survive on all fat?

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on June 13, 2011
at 12:13 AM

I don't see how anyone could say the diet is boring. Pasta and bread are two of the most boring foods around and I don't miss them. Do these people like the taste of vegetable oil? I still cook most of the dishes that I used to eat, and just have them with veg instead of rice/pasta. I cut out the crap, and make my own sauces and the food tastes amazing. If i go to a restaurant and have something that i love, i work out how to make it paleo.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 12, 2011
at 11:06 PM

Here's someone for whom paleo would not work: those with phenylketonuria. Can't break down phenylalanine, can't eat meat, should drink artificially created shakes in order to live.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 12, 2011
at 10:34 PM

Unrelated P.S...Your blog's citation links don't work. You might just need to reformat the hyperlinks.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7314)

on June 12, 2011
at 10:23 PM

There is definitely more at play in the diseases of civilization than grains. I think fructose and O6 play a large role in many health problems, as well as processed soy and lifestyle. However, epigenetic changes are very real, and I'm willing to guess they're part of the reason why we're getting so sick. Also, many grains have increasing percentages of gluten or other toxins because they've been bred for high-yield.

65430e39d7e9e9322718d016fe668051

(2944)

on June 12, 2011
at 09:43 PM

Paleo can also mean a raw food diet, which a few of my friends swear by (or at least majority raw ). I believe that there are some things no human should eat, like grains (though some people can handle them soaked), any sort of processed foods. But when it comes to things like dairy and the types of foods within the paleo-sphere, every person is different.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 12, 2011
at 09:15 PM

you're both missing it. the whole idea of paleo is not to include this or that but rather only to exclude three items that clearly have deleterious effects and are not needed to thrive: grains, legumes, dairy.

1d9af5db8833413037be3ac48964714f

(3789)

on June 12, 2011
at 09:08 PM

As I said, paleo is not one diet. Take two babies, one Maasai, one Okinawan, feed them the standard American diet until they are 40. The optimal healing "paleo" diet will almost certainly differ between them, but they are both vastly better adapted to a diet of real foods, avoiding neolithic foods they cannot properly digest.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 09:02 PM

I love the honesty.....keep the faith and dont give up.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 09:01 PM

native african and inuits are not adapted to the same diet. They are mismatched. And my next series is going to cover precisely why this belief is not true. WHY? Because the mitochondria and UCP3 dictate it. I love your answer because I suspect many believe this too. And you provided the nugget I was expecting. We have to understand paleo in a mismatched environment. And to do so requires understanding of precisely how natural selection effect our mitochondrial function. Thanks for your input. Plus one.........

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on June 12, 2011
at 09:00 PM

Paleo is more than a basic food list, it is a paradigm shift, a mindset, a lifestyle. A listing of foods is just a diet really.

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:58 PM

Who is to say people 8,000 years ago never had IBS or other complications due to grains, etc? Perhaps if it takes 30-40 years to manifest obvious symptoms most people were dead of a very hard life & old age by 40.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:56 PM

Jeff I do that on purpose. I find when you want to answer someone you want to be precise and clear. And when you want to learn something be as opened as possible to squeeze all the juice from the cherry.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:52 PM

That's funny because I was just asking my husband of he wanted a curry or chili for dinner. I didn't even think about it before, but we eat a lot of home cooked "ethnic" (for lack of a better word) foods. I ain't bothern' to try to make a paleo version of MacN'CHeese! BOOOOORING!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:48 PM

As for exercise, studies show that women get a better growth hormone response from high intensity interval work than men, (I haven't looked into it deep enough to see if that's just because men have a higher baseline than women). But, women burn more fat during exercise than men. So do we stay at the fat burning zone because that's where our bodies are most able to get energy, or ramp it up to a glycolytic zone (CrossFit) to get some of that good HGH? PS I sometimes get grumpy after CrossFit.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:12 PM

issues, and varied histories, each person should tinker to find out what they tolerate and how different macos work for them and be open to the idea that over time your body may change what is optimal for it.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:10 PM

it's pretty simple to me(simplicity for me being not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good). with the big 3 factors taken out, i eschew legumes because they irritate my stomach; i have no issues with dairy so i use pastured butter generously, particularly to off-set the fact that i rarely by grassfed meat; and i eat some nongluten grains such as white rice but they are far from staples in my diet. in my mind, i'm paleo because i eat whole foods that are unprocessed or minimally processed as possible. outside of the aforementioned big 3, i believe because of everyone's uniqueness, health

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:10 PM

i feel like I do best on moderate to high-esque fat. if I'm gonna go hike all day with a 40 lb pack, I wanna be packing fat and protein. If I'm doing all day type bordering on endurance work... basically on my feet working all day, I want high fat and protein. If I am in recovery mode though, or in lounge mode, I do better with less fat and more carb.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:37 PM

You know, I'm with you, I find my diet to be not boring at all and pretty varied. Also, I find the majority of most american food to be disgusting, poorly prepared, poorly seasoned, not fresh, badly textured, and just generally kind of gross, carboard-y and lacking in real flavor.

E91fd339d760ed76cc72570a679ebf5a

(2369)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:34 PM

I'm jealous of all the paleo and Lean Gains guys who can seemingly get "shredded" so easily. We've got a different set of hormones going on designed for very different purposes - we need to hold onto fat to ensure fertility, grow a fetus, etc.

E91fd339d760ed76cc72570a679ebf5a

(2369)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:33 PM

I suspect that high fat is a problem for me. I can't go too low carb anymore (it seems to over-tax my system), and the combo of fat and any carbs is bad news for me in terms of weight. Also, in terms of the CF workouts, I wonder if women are "adapted" to them. I love them in theory but have always gotten diminishing returns when I push myself really hard with heavy lifting/HIIT. I'm no longer a female who's trying to get "super buff" with lots of muscle, I just want to get and stay lean.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:31 PM

so I'm still playing with my levels. I do feel like no grains are the way to go, but I am liking the improved vitality I am seeing from adding in more sugar. I mean, by any American standards I still have a low sugar diet!

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:29 PM

I've actually upped my sugar intake and it seems to be helping... better skin, more energy.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:28 PM

Well, I think everyone knows where I stand on this one, but I do 1200/1300 calories, 50% fat, 25/30% protein, 20/25% carbs. It works for me, but it took years on tinkering to figure that out. I lost weight at 50% Carb, 40% protein, 20% fat - but the carbs/wheat were what were causing my high blood pressure.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:28 PM

Meredith... I think i'm in your boat. I've lived my whole life eating lots of appropriate fats (animal fats and butter) and protein and never ate a ton of sugar (nowhere near SAD levels). So when my husband found Paleo I was like,great! I already eat this way, I just need to ditch grains. But it turned out to be an issue for me. I ended up sort of low carb be default. My thyroid took a big hit, my skin went to hell and i gained some weight (I'm still 5'7" and in the low 140's but..I'd prefer to be in high 120's) So now, I still feel like grains are a no good, but

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:25 PM

Thx for clarifying Q...that's what I thought. Good to get our inquisitive minds going! As for the carbs I feel the same. Going vlc threw me into depression and low energy. More fat brought on the hips. Ladis...I'm going to do some major experiments and would love to work with you to see what we can discover for paleo women.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:21 PM

awesome answer.....thanks for the honesty and not trying to dissect the question

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:18 PM

plus one........

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:18 PM

im asking a broad question for a reason baconbitch. Im very interested in all the comments

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:16 PM

I like that you put it out there.....strong work

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:15 PM

plus one..........

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:15 PM

anything you want. Quantify what it means for you N-1

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:14 PM

define what it means for you and answer it. Im all ears.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 12, 2011
at 06:40 PM

Sorry to butt in here, but I saw the gender thing and have top put my hat in the ring. I do very well on protein/fat - but I get low stress tolerance if I go too low on the carbs for too long. Also, crossfit type workouts are great, but are they great for women? Ladies, let's start a conversation!

E91fd339d760ed76cc72570a679ebf5a

(2369)

on June 12, 2011
at 06:07 PM

I can't get rid of this sneaking suspicion I have that men are better adapted to paleo, and women are better adapted to... LFRV, for instance. Could it be that men do better with more protein and fat and less carbs and women do better with more carbs and less protein and fat? This is in terms of body composition, energy levels, endocrine functioning, etc.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 12, 2011
at 05:53 PM

@rose, yes "up for grabs" means everyone can hose whatever macros they want. Doesn't matter. It's simply about food choices, no?

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on June 12, 2011
at 05:41 PM

As long as we can say the macro ratios are up for grabs, I totally agree. I just want to clarify: you don't mean low carb CAN'T be paleo, correct? Just that paleo does not have to be low carb?

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27 Answers

15
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 12, 2011
at 05:55 PM

I brought up the inherent, albeit dormant qualities of fortitude and will and was chastised for it. I just cannot relate to someone "worrying" or "sweating" about the "temptations" of all the "wonderful" SAD foods. IMO, this is the dif between a diet and a lifestyle. A diet implies deprivation. A lifestyle on the other hand, is all encompassing. I do not in any way feel deprived abstaining from poisons because it is not my "life-way". Maybe, this is more a cultural problem.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:21 PM

awesome answer.....thanks for the honesty and not trying to dissect the question

14
7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

on June 12, 2011
at 07:30 PM

I think Paleo CAN work for everyone, you just have to find the right version.

65430e39d7e9e9322718d016fe668051

(2944)

on June 12, 2011
at 09:43 PM

Paleo can also mean a raw food diet, which a few of my friends swear by (or at least majority raw ). I believe that there are some things no human should eat, like grains (though some people can handle them soaked), any sort of processed foods. But when it comes to things like dairy and the types of foods within the paleo-sphere, every person is different.

11
66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

on June 12, 2011
at 05:03 PM

Not to get all philosophical about it but u would first have to define what paleo means for the person. For me it is simply no gluten containing grains, no industrial seed oils and limited fructose consumption. The dairy, legumes, sprouted vs unsprouted, grassfed vs grainfed, etc are all differing shades of gray for me personally and each individual should judge them based on their own individual health, tolerances and goals.

For the hard parameters(excluding gluten, industrial seed oils, and limiting fructose) I really don't see how anyone does worse over the long-term taking these out of their diet.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:14 PM

define what it means for you and answer it. Im all ears.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:10 PM

it's pretty simple to me(simplicity for me being not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good). with the big 3 factors taken out, i eschew legumes because they irritate my stomach; i have no issues with dairy so i use pastured butter generously, particularly to off-set the fact that i rarely by grassfed meat; and i eat some nongluten grains such as white rice but they are far from staples in my diet. in my mind, i'm paleo because i eat whole foods that are unprocessed or minimally processed as possible. outside of the aforementioned big 3, i believe because of everyone's uniqueness, health

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:12 PM

issues, and varied histories, each person should tinker to find out what they tolerate and how different macos work for them and be open to the idea that over time your body may change what is optimal for it.

9
0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 12, 2011
at 05:41 PM

People tell me my diet is sooooooo boring. I can't find anything boring about it. But, these are people who are used to exciting - or excitatory foods. If one is reliant on getting amusement park like experiences from their foods, then they are probably less likely to even try a Paleo approach. The shame is I think anyone is capable of pulling it off, but they have to get off the roller coaster first.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:37 PM

You know, I'm with you, I find my diet to be not boring at all and pretty varied. Also, I find the majority of most american food to be disgusting, poorly prepared, poorly seasoned, not fresh, badly textured, and just generally kind of gross, carboard-y and lacking in real flavor.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:18 PM

plus one........

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:52 PM

That's funny because I was just asking my husband of he wanted a curry or chili for dinner. I didn't even think about it before, but we eat a lot of home cooked "ethnic" (for lack of a better word) foods. I ain't bothern' to try to make a paleo version of MacN'CHeese! BOOOOORING!

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on June 13, 2011
at 12:13 AM

I don't see how anyone could say the diet is boring. Pasta and bread are two of the most boring foods around and I don't miss them. Do these people like the taste of vegetable oil? I still cook most of the dishes that I used to eat, and just have them with veg instead of rice/pasta. I cut out the crap, and make my own sauces and the food tastes amazing. If i go to a restaurant and have something that i love, i work out how to make it paleo.

8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

(580)

on June 13, 2011
at 06:06 PM

Yeah a friend of mine called paleo "super limiting", i asked how come, he said cause i can't have pasta or cheese. I was like how can those to be something that makes him call it "super limiting"?? All this meat, all these eggs, all these sweet potatoes!?!? And is it so hard to believe that I actually ENJOY eating 3 pounds of vegetables in a day?!?

7df8f3cc7f1475c3ecbbd4a4feb87d04

(514)

on June 14, 2011
at 01:38 AM

Exactly, when you can choose from so many different types of meats, birds & their eggs, seafood, veggies, fruits & berries, cheeses (goat, sheep & others?) if you include dairy, even insects! Lots of exotic stuff out there as well as edible greens or berries in the backyard that people never think to forage for. Anyone who calls paleo boring doesn't have much of an imagination, or is quite ignorant about food.

7
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on June 12, 2011
at 05:43 PM

Avoiding grain is a win for eveyone as far as I can tell, having a strategy for dairy that works for you is essential. Avoiding all sugar/refined foods is good for everyone. Eliminating vegetabe oils is good for everyone.

I think that some people need a lot of red meats and other meats and very low carbs / veggies. Others need high carbs and veggies and perhaps only salmon or eggs or chicken.

Everyone is diffrent and the macro breakdown that is optimal for each individual is diffrent.

7
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 12, 2011
at 05:31 PM

Paleo: avoid grains legumes and dairy.

I'd say that every human being will be fine doing that so yes.

Like we've all discussed many times: macro ratios are up for grabs, we've finally beat down the low carb=paleo nonsense.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on June 12, 2011
at 05:41 PM

As long as we can say the macro ratios are up for grabs, I totally agree. I just want to clarify: you don't mean low carb CAN'T be paleo, correct? Just that paleo does not have to be low carb?

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Hi Ben - I guess this right here proves the point about "what is paleo?". I disagree with dairy in the list. I guess my Archevore bias at play here. I think excess fructose and O-6 vis-a-vis vegetable oils would be on my list in lieu of dairy. Definitely agree with the grains, though I eat moderate amounts of white rice given it is a relatively benign source of starch. Cheers!

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 12, 2011
at 05:53 PM

@rose, yes "up for grabs" means everyone can hose whatever macros they want. Doesn't matter. It's simply about food choices, no?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:16 PM

I like that you put it out there.....strong work

6
1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on June 13, 2011
at 01:14 AM

to me, once you understand food and hunger, youve found your paleo. its not deciding what you can and cant have. i came to paleo from anorexia. when i started recovery following 'meal plans' nothing about the concept relayed 'food' or 'nourishment' to my brain- nothing. until i delved into biology and anatomy i never saw the light with food and never realized how down right retarded it was for me to starve myself.

i see what food is now i understand what hunger is its a mental relationship...it has nothing to do with the food or guidelines of paleo(avoding the deadly 3..) but everything to do with your outward relation with food.

it can work for everyone. i was once a ZCer...then a VLCer and then a dairy fiend...but i was never listening to my own self... that is HARD to do, but when you find out how to do it, you feed yourself 'your paleo' and IMO, it will vary greatly, seasonally, emotionally and hormonally

6
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 12, 2011
at 05:16 PM

Like any diet it is individual. It also depends on life circumstances such as stress. Gender and environment are also factors. I like this question but feel it may be too general unless you are trying to solicit broad definitions. I think without a long term study on paleo no one can provide a definitive answer.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:28 PM

Well, I think everyone knows where I stand on this one, but I do 1200/1300 calories, 50% fat, 25/30% protein, 20/25% carbs. It works for me, but it took years on tinkering to figure that out. I lost weight at 50% Carb, 40% protein, 20% fat - but the carbs/wheat were what were causing my high blood pressure.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:29 PM

I've actually upped my sugar intake and it seems to be helping... better skin, more energy.

E91fd339d760ed76cc72570a679ebf5a

(2369)

on June 12, 2011
at 06:07 PM

I can't get rid of this sneaking suspicion I have that men are better adapted to paleo, and women are better adapted to... LFRV, for instance. Could it be that men do better with more protein and fat and less carbs and women do better with more carbs and less protein and fat? This is in terms of body composition, energy levels, endocrine functioning, etc.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 12, 2011
at 06:40 PM

Sorry to butt in here, but I saw the gender thing and have top put my hat in the ring. I do very well on protein/fat - but I get low stress tolerance if I go too low on the carbs for too long. Also, crossfit type workouts are great, but are they great for women? Ladies, let's start a conversation!

E91fd339d760ed76cc72570a679ebf5a

(2369)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:34 PM

I'm jealous of all the paleo and Lean Gains guys who can seemingly get "shredded" so easily. We've got a different set of hormones going on designed for very different purposes - we need to hold onto fat to ensure fertility, grow a fetus, etc.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:31 PM

so I'm still playing with my levels. I do feel like no grains are the way to go, but I am liking the improved vitality I am seeing from adding in more sugar. I mean, by any American standards I still have a low sugar diet!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:25 PM

Thx for clarifying Q...that's what I thought. Good to get our inquisitive minds going! As for the carbs I feel the same. Going vlc threw me into depression and low energy. More fat brought on the hips. Ladis...I'm going to do some major experiments and would love to work with you to see what we can discover for paleo women.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:10 PM

i feel like I do best on moderate to high-esque fat. if I'm gonna go hike all day with a 40 lb pack, I wanna be packing fat and protein. If I'm doing all day type bordering on endurance work... basically on my feet working all day, I want high fat and protein. If I am in recovery mode though, or in lounge mode, I do better with less fat and more carb.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:28 PM

Meredith... I think i'm in your boat. I've lived my whole life eating lots of appropriate fats (animal fats and butter) and protein and never ate a ton of sugar (nowhere near SAD levels). So when my husband found Paleo I was like,great! I already eat this way, I just need to ditch grains. But it turned out to be an issue for me. I ended up sort of low carb be default. My thyroid took a big hit, my skin went to hell and i gained some weight (I'm still 5'7" and in the low 140's but..I'd prefer to be in high 120's) So now, I still feel like grains are a no good, but

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:18 PM

im asking a broad question for a reason baconbitch. Im very interested in all the comments

E91fd339d760ed76cc72570a679ebf5a

(2369)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:33 PM

I suspect that high fat is a problem for me. I can't go too low carb anymore (it seems to over-tax my system), and the combo of fat and any carbs is bad news for me in terms of weight. Also, in terms of the CF workouts, I wonder if women are "adapted" to them. I love them in theory but have always gotten diminishing returns when I push myself really hard with heavy lifting/HIIT. I'm no longer a female who's trying to get "super buff" with lots of muscle, I just want to get and stay lean.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:48 PM

As for exercise, studies show that women get a better growth hormone response from high intensity interval work than men, (I haven't looked into it deep enough to see if that's just because men have a higher baseline than women). But, women burn more fat during exercise than men. So do we stay at the fat burning zone because that's where our bodies are most able to get energy, or ramp it up to a glycolytic zone (CrossFit) to get some of that good HGH? PS I sometimes get grumpy after CrossFit.

6235e0b7e3c4c4b9df3d926829bc32f6

(333)

on June 13, 2011
at 11:10 PM

Gazelle, what do you mean by LFRV?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 13, 2011
at 11:03 PM

this is true and women also lose GH by 40 yrs old as well. Culturally very few women do HIIT but if they knew biochemistry tendencies they would. Lowest GH levels are seen in women with fibromyalgia. I have never seen one with a normal IGF-1

7df8f3cc7f1475c3ecbbd4a4feb87d04

(514)

on June 15, 2011
at 04:08 AM

I'm also stumped by LFRV - Gazelle, or anyone? In any case, I just wanted to say that I'm loving this conversation, seems pretty rare from what I've seen of paleohacks so far and I wish we had more discussions along these female-specific lines.

4
34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on June 12, 2011
at 04:55 PM

Are we talking about mentally adapted or physically adapted? It seems to me in my experience including with myself, the hardest part of following paleo was to give up certain foods that I loved. Which was a psychological barrier for me for some time.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:15 PM

anything you want. Quantify what it means for you N-1

3
1568416ef28477d1fa29046218d83ddd

(6235)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:19 PM

I don't think it matters. In the end the only person I am responsible for choosing a diet for is myself, thus the question I care about is only if this is a good choice for me.

I get uncomfortable as soon as people start wanting to make choices for people who are not their children and are not them. That is not their business and is where I can find people who have made all sorts of choices obnoxious and intrusive.

3
66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on June 12, 2011
at 05:12 PM

I agree with what hcantrall said, most people fall prey to psychological barriers, to their wants & desires for food. How many times have we heard someone say "oh I could just never give up 'fill-in-the-blank', I couldn't life without it". I think everyone is adapted to paleo, but of course paleo is not a narrow focused way of eating, it is broad in scope. It is obvious that modern SAD is wreaking havoc in large parts of the World. There can be individual exceptions, which can be supported in our modern, advanced society, but for almost all of our existence on this planet if for some reason you were unable to do well on the diet people ate at that time or geographic location, Nature selected against you and you died out.

3
64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on June 12, 2011
at 05:09 PM

Dr. K. I find it so interesting that while your answers on here are among the most technical/ esoteric, your questions tend to be the most exoteric.

It would have to depend on a person's interpretation of what paleo is... For me it means avoiding irritating foods (or other environmental irritants). In that case everyone is best adapted to remove toxins from their lives. For example I can't do boxed coconut water, but stuff I pour myself is fine. I can eat tons of raw butter but not pastuerized (even if it's grass fed), and raw cream doesn't do well with me.

Finding what works for the individual is paramount, and I think generally following paleo protocol gets most of the people most of the way there.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 07:15 PM

plus one..........

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:56 PM

Jeff I do that on purpose. I find when you want to answer someone you want to be precise and clear. And when you want to learn something be as opened as possible to squeeze all the juice from the cherry.

2
Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on June 12, 2011
at 09:29 PM

Yes, paleo/primal/ancestral LIVING should be a way of life recommended to everyone. Eating is perhaps the backbone of beginning the lifetyle change, but just "eating paleo" is not "living paleo.*

As others have stated, macronutrient ratios can and should be very individualized. I am a person who comes from a bigtime history of big weight issues, so, my way of paleo looks very low on the starchy vegetable and high gycemic fruit end. These become special occasion foods. For others, they may be part of the necessary backbone of daily eating. I've kept off 90 lbs for nearly 9 years and began as what I'd call a "clean eating" low carber.

Where we "come from" on our journey is a crucial piece for each of us.

And how much healing we have to do on that journey is another crucial piece. For many years, I was what Kurt Harris refers to as an "herbivore" - grazer - style eater. And I absolutely HAD to be. I was very, very sick when I made massive diet changes and I was very fat and hypoglycemic.

I would never have thought that IF would work for me. And then it would not have. But with years of healing, which included careful, consistent supplementation - including very high amounts of omega 3's -8-10 grams for several months to begin with, and then ongoing 2-3 grams for all these years, alot of healing has occurred. Now IF is a perfect fit for me which still amazes me! I generally eat 2 LARGE meals per day now.

But it aint' just about food! The whole sleep piece is huge, as is the having active FUN piece and doing the right kinds of physical movement (exercise) at the right intervals and learning to value rest and recovery time.

I agree with others that I strongly believe cutting out grains - or at the least, GREATLY minimizing them, using good fats to cook with (getting n-3,n-6 ratios in shape), and throwing out processed sugar - except for special occasions, is part of the "paleo backbone." Beyond that, I see food mixes as very individualized, with the extra caveat that if one is dealing with autoimmune issues, then a strict trial, including dairy elimination and nightshade elimination/reduction is prudent.

I am one of those that grains make horribly ill but can tolerate minimal dairy well - some hard cheeses, soft, heavy cream for coffee, rare whipped cream dessert. Nightshades seem not to be an issue.

Bottom line: There is no westernized human that "paleo tweaking" cannot help. That tweaking should come in the form of holistic lifestyle change guidance and good coaching support along the journey.

2
F6ea948ab43dc51d72509c0989e670fe

(1639)

on June 12, 2011
at 09:23 PM

It depends on what you mean by paleo. If we go with a vlc/ketogenic style paleo, yes, I think there are people that have issues due to the absolute willpower required at times. Or the 2-3 week cross-over, which some people hate, or can't even make it through.

I know that the restrictions on the auto-immune Robb Wolf style paleo would make me quit. But my Mom does just fine with it. She also has a lot more food allergies than I've noticed in myself.

I know people who have success with primal blueprint. They like to eat different foods that normally aren't allowed. I followed that at the beginning and discovered I had more issues with food than I initially suspected.

I like following the archevore style of paleo (Yes, we can argue about some of the foods on the list -- test for yourself, n=1, and allow or disallow from your diet). It allows different foods that a lot of paleo people do not eat, allows the amount of glucose I need to function, and gives me a variety of food.

I seem to be best adapted to a 70%~fat, 15%~protein, and 15%~carb diet as described above. Sometimes I eat veggies, sometimes I don't. I don't ignore fruit, but I don't seek it out either. I drink cream, or cook with butter. I believe that high fat dairy doesn't cause me any issues. I cut it out for a while, brought it back in, and seem fine. I usually do a 8 hour eating window, and either drink coffee with whipping cream in it, or just fast. I seem to do fine, and am losing weight and fat mass. Which is my goal. I am, however, gluten intolerant, and am insulin resistant. So not doing paleo doesn't make sense to me. Of course, that's only after experimenting with "gluten free" products and still feeling miserable at times.

I think the biggest problem with people acclimating to paleo is the dogma that the government has fed us about fat being "bad" and whole grains being "good". Once they understand the science and that the body runs primarily on fat, I think the acceptance is better. Normally I'd argue that acceptance isn't in the mind, but I've seen enough in my own life to understand that the mental war is as big as the physical problems, if not more so.

2
792634a784ec6a636c3137d0903e11b4

(1196)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:31 PM

I don't even know that I am paleo, because it has so many variations. Can you define a way of 'not-eating'?? That's what I am - I'm a non-food-non-eater. I don't eat seed oils, processed foods, nuts, grains, legumes, cruciferous veges, high fructose fruits, nightshades or dairy. Those are all items that I can't digest right now, so they're not 'foods' for me.

Carbs and protein quantities and effects are the latest playing field for me, as I figure out what I feel good on and what helps me to correct my weight and energy. Zero and VLC are OK for a couple of days a week, but after that I get scattered, irritable and tired. Higher carb makes me crave. I'm a work-in-progress.

792634a784ec6a636c3137d0903e11b4

(1196)

on June 13, 2011
at 12:59 AM

Also, reminded by the quote above, I'm NZ Maori by descent - apparently we have high rates of lactose intolerance and are not all that far off a fully evolutionary diet consisting mostly of seafood, birds and tubers. That's what my great grandparents ate.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 09:02 PM

I love the honesty.....keep the faith and dont give up.

2
1d9af5db8833413037be3ac48964714f

on June 12, 2011
at 07:50 PM

Disagree. Humans are born adapted to paleo (which is not one diet but a range of dietary approaches approximating ancestral eating patterns). Many adults have accumulated years of metabolic damage and autoimmune stress as a result of eating foods their bodies are poorly adapted to--for some of these people, further refinement of the basic paleo approach is necessary because they have acquired sensitivities to otherwise tolerable foods.

1d9af5db8833413037be3ac48964714f

(3789)

on June 12, 2011
at 09:08 PM

As I said, paleo is not one diet. Take two babies, one Maasai, one Okinawan, feed them the standard American diet until they are 40. The optimal healing "paleo" diet will almost certainly differ between them, but they are both vastly better adapted to a diet of real foods, avoiding neolithic foods they cannot properly digest.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 13, 2011
at 04:08 AM

ben you believe that when you the science is not laid out. What if I was to to tell that we know why the okinawans are a blue zone already but it is not well known......its true. There supercentenarians have a genetic mutation at the first cytochrome of electron transport that make this complex less leaky and that is the main reason for their longevity. It is irrespective of their diet. This is why the science is critical. Diet is critical but there are times when it is not. And it appears in supercentenarians diet may not be at all critical.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 12, 2011
at 09:01 PM

native african and inuits are not adapted to the same diet. They are mismatched. And my next series is going to cover precisely why this belief is not true. WHY? Because the mitochondria and UCP3 dictate it. I love your answer because I suspect many believe this too. And you provided the nugget I was expecting. We have to understand paleo in a mismatched environment. And to do so requires understanding of precisely how natural selection effect our mitochondrial function. Thanks for your input. Plus one.........

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 13, 2011
at 03:56 PM

"diet is a non factor." is ridiculous. Diet is a factor in how long and how well any one lives, period. I'm not saying it'll fix everything, but it is indeed a factor for all human beings, period. There are no human beings whose lives are not altered by what they feed themselves. It all counts. To differing degrees of course, but fuel is a factor for all human beings, period.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 12, 2011
at 09:15 PM

you're both missing it. the whole idea of paleo is not to include this or that but rather only to exclude three items that clearly have deleterious effects and are not needed to thrive: grains, legumes, dairy.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on June 13, 2011
at 08:10 PM

Ben - Doc is saying that diet is a non factor in that specific example of Okinawans. Also, who in the world says that's the definition of Paleo? That's surely not my understanding of it. I believe I fit in with the Paleo crowd, yet I eat dairy.

1d9af5db8833413037be3ac48964714f

(3789)

on June 13, 2011
at 01:26 AM

Wow! If that's the definition of paleo, then I guess I am missing it. I thought it had something to do with real, unprocessed food and an approach to eating informed by knowledge of evolution. Now that I know that it is only three forbidden foods, I can go eat all kinds of garbage and stay healthy!

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 13, 2011
at 01:00 PM

No they would not.....but longevity is conferred to those folks by one base change in the first cytochrome. It has little to do with their diet as most believe. Diet is important but for some it is a non factor. That blue zone is one of them

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 13, 2011
at 11:55 AM

Like always i struggle to make any kind of sense from your comment, K. Regardless of the cytochrome-status, or what levee they may be at wrapped up in your quilt, I maintain that the exclusion of grains, legumes, and dairy would not hurt the Okinawans. And why does longevity=our goal? A certain amount, yes of course. But quality of life takes precedence in my own view over 5-10 more years at the end.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 13, 2011
at 11:04 PM

thanks Jack.....youre correct in your interpretation.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on July 23, 2011
at 11:54 AM

Ben is a foot and I appear to be his splinter. But I still ride along and watch his journey. Adaptation will eventually come.

2
D8195c5ae6c967027a3133d74969d0e1

on June 12, 2011
at 06:16 PM

I follow the "Wolf" paleo - there are so many I don't even know whose is whose! I only know that following paleo (I do 100% except I can't afford grass fed meat) - no grains - no sugar, limited fructose, only olive oil and coconut oil, no legumes - for me no nightshades, and limited jalapeno type spices - have about one meal a week with tomato sauce - at 64 with several health issues (all resolved - or in the process of being so) I can't believe if followed - anyone would have a problem!! I was pescatarian prior to indoctrinating myself on the "30" day plan - I had absolutely no difficulty adapting - my only prob - which still exists is that I really am sad about the animals that have to die for my benefit!!!! Seeing as I'm healthy again and not depressed any more - I thank the animal for giving his/her life to aid my well-being!!!

2
4bf5827bfb7df85c5b4b485db0945e64

(1386)

on June 12, 2011
at 06:12 PM

I think this is a very generalized question. Paleo is basically a food list to choose from by which you can construct a multitude of different dietary choices. For example, you can adjust the macronutrient ratios up and down to do something like a low-carb or high-carb diet. Also, you could easily do other diets with the Paleo framework such as GAPS or even Zone. Given this plasticity in the Paleo diet, it would be extremely hard to argue against Paleo being the ideal diet for virtually everyone since there's so many different ways to customize it. I know those are pretty general statements but you could get very detailed in the nuances of the biochemistry from that perspective and talk about customizing it for folks at the cellular/metabolic level to achieve a comprehensive spectrum of goals.

I think an avoidance of grains and processed foods is ideal for everyone.

For dairy, I think some can thrive on it if it is from a quality source and raw.

Things like extra virgin olive oil and coconut oil are evolutionarily novel but I think they're good for most.

Contrarily, I think a lot of folks will do well to eliminate nuts and seeds from the diet. Also, I'm not too hot about people consuming much honey even though it's "Paleo".

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on June 12, 2011
at 09:00 PM

Paleo is more than a basic food list, it is a paradigm shift, a mindset, a lifestyle. A listing of foods is just a diet really.

1
7dab2d8c97e44d8d0c298e5c9d5d75bc

(641)

on October 07, 2012
at 01:26 PM

I do think that paleo to me means MOSTLY avoidance of processed foods and GLUTEN.

I have celiac disease, so I really can't do gluten at all. I can't really judge other people's poor reactions to it or not.

Based on the avoidance of grains and processed foods, and counting that as paleo- I disagree and would say that everyone is adapted to paleo.

My best friend is a vegetarian and getting started!

1
77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6

(5002)

on June 13, 2011
at 08:54 PM

  1. History: Since there is no singular paleo diet, it is likely that individuals will vary in what final set of paleo-approved foods work best for them. This was probably true for variation among their paleolithic ancestors; but it's also probably true as a function of which foods their ancestors ate relative to other groups in the paleolithic (see 2 on this point).

  2. Genetics: One source of structure that might cut through the sea of individual variation is genetic differences. Genetic lineages might indicate particular sets of foods that individuals' ancestors ate and subsequently adapted to.

  3. Previous diet and its damage: For example, my Italian mother fed me pasta every other night for over ten years, which probably did a certain amount of damage to my gut lining and metabolism, which in turn might result in some paleo-foods being better for me than others.

  4. Lifestyle differences: Some of us need to engage in behaviors (professional athletics, or in my case, strength training and professional academics) that require a type of lifestyle that doesn't perfectly jive with the paleo diet and all that is required to adhere to it in a modern setting. This might result in exceptions (lacto-paleo, fermented foods, etc), supplementation (BCAAs, fish oil, etc), and lifestyle sacrifices (staying up all night, taking Adderall, etc).

1
A65499f2f8c65602881550fe309cd48c

(3501)

on June 13, 2011
at 03:50 PM

Unprocessed..that's what this whole "paleo" label boils it down to for me. Unprocessed on a daily basis with a few "processed" moments thrown in when called for...such as special occasions, dinner out with the husband and there's an amazing dessert to be had, that sort of thing. If I start to try to figure out all the percentages, macronutrients, technicalities, then this whole paleo thing turns into an obsessive nightmare for me. I eat when i'm hungry, I don't eat stuff out of a bag or box generally, and if I couldn't eat it raw then I don't eat it (for the most part). When I stick with this type of eating I feel so much better, my food is fuel and my body thanks me. Paleo is not a religion, not an obsession and not an opportunity to get all "holier than thou" when it comes to lifestyles...it's an opportunity to eat healthy and perhaps encourage others to do the same by example and help when asked for. That's my take, great question!

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 13, 2011
at 01:20 AM

At the base of it we are likely very physically adapted to the Paleo diet.

Figuring out how to navigate the modern non-paleo world challenges that adaptation because we are more than food digesting machines. I think we can change our brains to become maladapted to the diet. Possibly through addiction, peer pressure, food reward, hyper-palatability, custom, culture values etc. This changes how we eat and how our brain and body reacts to food. I think a lot of ideas are now concerned with changing/measuring the brain/body connection in regards to food, instead of grimly staying true to one way of eating.

This must be part of why this site is full of questions about what to eat and how it makes us feel. Hunter gatherer groups didn't all eat the same foods. The Masai might not do as well on the Inuit diet. I'm not expert in anthropology, or biochemistry, but I read the site and lots of folks question if Paleo will work (for them) in the modern age.

Like I said I'm not an expert. It's fun though to try and answer, connect the dots and put your own hypotheses out there.

1
06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 12, 2011
at 10:45 PM

I can't think of a single reason why a paleo lifestyle would not work for everyone. Why?

Because I think that the intolerances to some paleo food that people express here are due to non functioning guts brought on by current and previously eating neolithic foods. Thus people try this or that version of paleo and find one that their gut flora can accomodate. It seems like the microbial gut flora has adapted to the previously eaten neolithic foods. Our genes have been changed by all the neolithic poison.

We have somewhere around 500 plus or minus different bacteria species living in our guts but WIKI says it is believed that 99% of the species are made up of just 20 species...leaving out a whole bunch of species. Perhaps those species left out are exactly the ones that are needed.

Repopulate the gut with all 500 species and I think paleo can work for everyone. Dr Art Ayres (coolinginfmammation) is a firm believer in the idea that wellness originates in the gut. A disfunctional gut leads to inflammation which leads to disease. He talks a lot about eating inulin foods that ferment and create new gut flora and he talks about...basically eating a little dirt to populate the gut and he talks about fecal transplant...all in an attempt to get the gut to work properly.

Heal the gut and I think paleo is what everyone needs. All the paleo food intolerances would go away.

Yeah, paleo is for everyone.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 13, 2011
at 04:12 AM

there are many conditions that require a non paleo diet. Infact there are so many mismatches that cause plateaus it is amazing no one is really talking about it. That is why I asked the question. I want to gauge the knowledge of its existence. One of the greatest mismatches resides in the stroke belt of the USA in African Americans.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 13, 2011
at 12:21 AM

Kamal, thanks for the heads up on PKU. It is interesting to read that foods that contain only fat and sugar...ie no protein at all... are just fine for consumption by a PKUer. Sugar comes from fruit. Now what is a PKU Type I to do? A totally fat diet? Con we survive on all fat?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 12, 2011
at 11:06 PM

Here's someone for whom paleo would not work: those with phenylketonuria. Can't break down phenylalanine, can't eat meat, should drink artificially created shakes in order to live.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on June 14, 2011
at 12:36 AM

@ben, we're of a same or very similar mind, I think, except that my third "absolute" item for removal is SUGAR rather than milk products. Milk is way down the chain for me. I do think that The Quilt has a point of argument with grains vs 0-6/3. He states below he sees O-6 as a greater problem. I have to admit that this *is* a difficult one and I really can't pick between the. Both=poison. And the effects of both are most typically not acute, but cumulative. But you'd have to put a gun to my head to get me to eat grain. Russian roulette and I didn't win. Very fortunate to be alive and well now.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on June 13, 2011
at 04:48 AM

The Quilt, I am very interested to hear you expound on this as I live in the stroke belt and it is very hard for me to imagine that it would in any way be negative for the large number of African Americans in my area to lose the grains, sugar and cook with good fats to get O-6/3 in better ratio. It's a disabesity ridden area! AS previously stated, beyond the above 3 that I consider backbones of paleo/primal/ancestral eating to avoid neolithic disease causing agents, everything else is up for grabs and should be *idividualized.*

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on June 13, 2011
at 12:53 AM

I think we need to put the original question in the context of basically healthy people who do not have nutritional needs that require a carefully formulated medical special diet. I do not hink it was The Quilt's intent to consider these population, though I may be wrong...

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 13, 2011
at 01:25 AM

Dexter- What is a PKU to do? Cry! No, I think they're generally okay with their diets, because they start them from a young age and hence are not accustomed to meat. They have to buy these special low-phenylalinine protein shakes to survive. While I don't think the Quilt was considering this type of population, there may very well be less serious or even subclinical conditions that require a non-paleo diet. (that I know nothing about, as I'm not a dietician)

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on June 13, 2011
at 04:49 AM

Correction: "diabesity" ridden area.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 13, 2011
at 11:51 AM

@mem, i kind of like disabesity. Message comes through:) And I too question how the removal of grains, legumes, and dairy would HURT anyone in the stroke belt.

1
21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 12, 2011
at 10:08 PM

Not everyone is adapted to what most people are adapted to? Well yeah, that's clearly a truism because of simple logic. Most people are born being adapted to what humans generally have eaten ("paleo"), but some acquire pathologies as life goes on.

So when one is diabetic, they wouldn't want to eat lots of tubers and fruit, even though most people are born being okay with these foods. If one is epileptic, they would also change their diet a bit. I don't see anything earth-shattering about that line of thinking.

1
26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

on June 12, 2011
at 09:38 PM

There are so many ways to eat 'paleo', primal, archevore, evolutionarily appropriate, whole-foods, high-nutrient, grain-free, low-carb... hell look how many words there are to describe the basics of what people in this community eat!

I would disagree that any human being is going to get better results from an industrial diet with the main calorie sources of grains, beans, seed oils, and sweeteners vs a 'paleo' diet based on fresh foods and with a majority of fat and protein coming from animal products.

However I absolutely agree that many people aren't going to do their best on low-carb, or high-fat, or with lots of meat every day, or eating dairy. or giving up dairy. It's very important to experiment with any diet or way of life to figure out what suits your needs best.

0
1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on June 13, 2011
at 03:46 PM

maybe question whether everyone or anyone requires paleo....they dont

for one, there is no denying that the dawn of the agricultural revolution sparked fertility to a degree unheard of in human history. yes, it was the direct result of grains. our population skyrocketed. but what it brought was unnatural omega 6's when we realized this population needed feeding in an affordable way, and this brought metabolic dysfunction which led to an industry out for money making. as our genetic expression has now changed, IMO, in the future it will develop to thrive on what we are now feeding it(soy, grains, corn, gluten) but NOT right now, as the human body evolves.

so do you force it to change? SHOULD you force it to change? in the grand scheme of human existence, my body, my genetic expression through my dietary choices plays a role so small it's not even worth fathoming.

no ones body REQUIRES them to eat paleo, just like no ones body REQUIRES them to eat dietary carbohydrates. people can live on grains & corn. people can live on seal blubber & stomach. i think there are VERY FEW aspects of the human body one requires to function.

*the omega balance is important but in reality you need very little of both

*there is no requirement to eat meat, like there is no requirement to eat fruit- you dont need either. look at vegans, look at carnivores. IMO, theyre both wrong

i know, from experience that the human body is very giving, you can get by eating nothing, you can get by eating lettuce, you can be alive drinking nothing but splenda sweetened calorie free drinks, diet soda and coffee and even run 15 miles a day with it. you can do this for years(6 to be exact) none of that is required though.

its in your genes, your genetic expression. i think it is the apoe4 gene for cancer(correct me if im wrong) and if you have this gene, there is not a diet in the world that will prevent your body from working toward developing a tumor- its your genetic expression, what your body has in store to do. you can try and control it, where food comes into play and some aspects may help, but ultimately, those are your genes.

i have a f8ed up HPA, misfiring in my brain, a bad chemical imbalance. it's in my genes, its in my family line. there isnt anything i am required to do about it, its my genetic expression.

paleo was the choice i made to control my mind in a way to enhance my own life, make it livable every day- no joke, it was a choice i wanted to make(i admit i was 100% obsessed with meeting my meal requirements with wheat thins and peanut butter...holy addicition).

am i forcing a change in my genetic expression? IMO, yes. theres prolly a bolus of ways i COULD do this, but this one happens to be easy and make sense to me. food is my medicine, my energy, and what gives me the ability to live in conventional life- able to wake up and get out of bed every morning to go to a desk job, have conversations with people, keep an elevated libido(lol), keep hair on my head and muscle on my body, and not live in a bedroom secluded from life and every form of it.

theres only really one thing i think should be 'required' from the get go... breast feeding. without it, you dont even start life with a correct functioning.

i like what quilt said about the african americans vs the white... look at the differences in diseases and the different effect on their body's due to the SAD diet.

  • i have NEVER seen a black person with chicken legs/no ass coupled with a belly protruding obnoxiously huge. however, i see 2394582103495 white people everyday like this

*i HAVE seen black people who are just BIG, but theyre big everywhere. they have thicker bones, more muscle thick skin etc..

  • i RARELY see a black person in a wheel chair, nor have i ever met one who is diabetic

  • i rarely see a black person in a cast

ok, i dont know where this is going, but i am very interested in how quilt plans to dissect it...im so totally interested

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on June 13, 2011
at 04:57 PM

i dont, and trust me i see a lot of blacks(i am in mississippi) but your right, they do have health problems from stats i just havent met any also, 99% of the blacks here are on food stamps buying candy, chips, 20oz sodas, hoho's, pie and junk on EBT food stamps...

26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

(7967)

on June 13, 2011
at 04:15 PM

I can kind of see your point re: black Americans vs white; the apple shaped body seems to be rarer among African American women, and people of West African descent (which most African American people are) have more bone and muscle mass, regardless of fat mass, than most people of other ethnic groups. But I know personally and have seen black people with all of the above, Mal (I live right outside Philadelphia which is about 40% black). Statistically, diabetes is epidemic in African Americans - they have 2x the risk of non-Hispanic whites.

26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

(7967)

on June 13, 2011
at 04:17 PM

Every time I go to my local Walmart (most customers there are black) I can see black women with skinny legs/hips and big bellies, and plenty of black people in wheelchairs.

26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

(7967)

on June 14, 2011
at 02:08 AM

Maybe you're just not talking to the right people. I have known, worked with, and spoken with a lot of black people from poor families or who are poor themselves (working adults) and often on assistance. In high school one of my better black friends got diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. At this one diner I worked at, both my managers (black women in their 40s and 60s) were apple shapes with tiny legs, huge bellies. I remember the cooks used to make fun of their shapes (they gave as good as they got, haha). It's weird that our experiences are so different.

0
9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

on June 12, 2011
at 08:45 PM

I think it is a bit of a stretch to say that foods that were the dietary foundation of numerous cultures over 10,000 years are all bad for you, implying that all of those people were somehow malnourished and disease prone. Corn, barley, wheat, rice, and other grains were and are all dietary staple for different cultures around the world. Historically, cultures didn't usually become cultures until they developed a form of agriculture-based food, which allowed a minority of the population to produce enough feed for the entire group.

Surely some people in those cultures tolerated the grains better than others, which is also true today. I know people that would suffer with a Paleo diet that is heavy on meat, eggs, and fat, such as my wife. I think that some people are just adapted to burn carbohydrates and grains a lot better than they can utilize meat and fat. On the other hand, I am certain that a Paleo diet is a lot better for me than one including grains and sugar.

It could be that different strains of the human species are just adapted differently, this would make sense, considering that grains were introduced around 10,000 years ago, that means about 300-400 generations of people. That is enough time for people to adapt to that diet.

Incidence of irritable bowel syndrome, diabetes, obesity, and other "diseases of civilization" have become a lot more common in the past 50 years or so, while grains have been around more than 10,000. I think the problem is more than just the grains.

This forum is full of people that are enthusiastic about the Paleo diet, and at times it becomes somewhat of an echo chamber, everyone agreeing with everyone else. However there are billions of people in the world... I don't think that a single diet fits all of them.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on June 13, 2011
at 04:13 AM

I think omega sixes are the biggest factor in disease in this country not grains.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7314)

on June 12, 2011
at 10:23 PM

There is definitely more at play in the diseases of civilization than grains. I think fructose and O6 play a large role in many health problems, as well as processed soy and lifestyle. However, epigenetic changes are very real, and I'm willing to guess they're part of the reason why we're getting so sick. Also, many grains have increasing percentages of gluten or other toxins because they've been bred for high-yield.

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on June 12, 2011
at 08:58 PM

Who is to say people 8,000 years ago never had IBS or other complications due to grains, etc? Perhaps if it takes 30-40 years to manifest obvious symptoms most people were dead of a very hard life & old age by 40.

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