4

votes

No weight loss after a full month of paleo

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created September 26, 2010 at 2:47 PM

I have read every other thread on weight loss here but I have not found a thread that relate to my question. (most other threads are about people who either don't exercise or eat too little/too much)

I have helped many people lose weight. It has always been somewhat easy for me to do it : Eat a diet based on evolutionary principles, exercise, sleep good and manage your stress.

However, at the moment, the friend I am trying to help has not seen any weight loss after a full month. He is 235lbs, and according to fitday he is getting in 2400 calories, 57% fat, 29% protein, 14% carbs. I'm not a fan of calories but everything looks on par and insulin levels are likely to be controlled. He is healthy (no illness whatsoever)

He does crossfit football 4 to 5 times a week (20-45mins workouts). He usually workout in a fasted state too. So far, he says that he feels better, that he might have gained some muscles and that his strength level is probably back to where it was (he had to take some time off training and healthy eating due to lifestyle reasons).

The problem is that he has not lost body fat. The scale has not moved (either up or down). While he appreciate the mood improvement, he would like to lose weight too.

What would you guys recommend?

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on March 24, 2013
at 01:47 PM

Stephen-Do you have a blog or list of resources? This sounds like exactly what I'm going through. I'm going to eliminate egg for a few weeks and see what happens (dairy is already out). I've been reading about refeeds, psmf, etc, but I still feel like I don't know what I'm doing. btw I'm female, and I'm afraid of messing with my hormones. I've already done LC (at 50g carbs) and 65% fat with no effect.

6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

(1169)

on July 26, 2012
at 04:50 PM

Very useful although I've always thought getting that hungry does not really work for me.

326c6f4129b1e2c31fb8d4b38c1befc7

(30)

on June 08, 2011
at 09:35 PM

Hey Lacey-- I will admit I don't know about the Eades' diet, but it makes me a bit nervous! I am just under 5'2", and was 136 pounds. I started Weight Watchers in mid-November, and am now hovering around 120/119, having hit that around Easter (early April). You can totally do paleo on WW, b/c the only thing they do is give you a point system, and if you stay in that point system, you will lose weight. It's slow, but was pretty steady for me. Actually, I would've lost it faster, but I was out of the country for awhile, and just let go of both paleo and WW! And I didn't scream!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 21, 2011
at 04:47 PM

That is a superb article! THanks for sharing it.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on September 28, 2010
at 01:14 AM

Depends entirely on intensity, If I feel weak or lethargic, it's usually accompanied by hunger... Refeed!

A68f24168bc0de414a038037e287b581

(4896)

on September 27, 2010
at 10:53 PM

thanks! I am not sure if I will be able to monitor clearly or read my body well to know when I need to refeed... I figure that if I am getting really tired or lightheaded it would be time for a bigger meal. How long it takes for the glycogen to be gone?

691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on September 27, 2010
at 02:26 PM

if he's eating 84 carbs a day and not losing weight tho, this is a good call.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on September 27, 2010
at 06:18 AM

Some can totally lose weight on this level of carb. Actually, I htink most people can. But not all.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on September 27, 2010
at 03:52 AM

It varied based on my HIIT exercise. If exercising 3+ days a week heavy I'd refeed twice a week. If twice a week heavy workouts then only 1 refeed. I made sure my muscle glycogen was GONE before I reloaded, and the results were a very tired man followed by great results.

16ac9720030cbf0908f56da404ab01b9

(289)

on September 27, 2010
at 02:13 AM

I'm doing the Eades' 6 week cure, and the first two weeks are pretty calorie restricted. Definitely not Paleo, but effective, and after two weeks the calories increase once you teach your body to burn fat instead of screaming for sugar. The first two days were hell though.

A68f24168bc0de414a038037e287b581

(4896)

on September 27, 2010
at 01:12 AM

Stephen, when you were doing PSMF how many days in a row would you go before having a refeed? I am guessing refeed is one day with more calories and fat? or is it one big meal every x days? Thanks, I am just about to try it for my stubborn waist fat.

F6c1df7d5699661bd1f0d6d0a6c17fc6

on September 26, 2010
at 10:56 PM

Aren't you are going to go into starvation mode according to this formula. Cunningham equation gives around 3000 cals for 160 pounds of lean mass. Your equation gives 1600 cals. That's a difference of 1400 cals per day or 2 pounds of fat per week. Isn't that too much?

16ac9720030cbf0908f56da404ab01b9

(289)

on September 26, 2010
at 10:22 PM

Your formula is exactly what it takes for me to lose weight. I'm 5'1, 135 pounds, 73% lean body mass. 1,000 calories a day, pure ketosis. Losing about 2 pounds a week and every ounce is a dogfight. Once he's at his desired weight he can loosen up on the measuring and counting, but when you're trying to change a habit, it's too easy to fool yourself.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on September 26, 2010
at 07:37 PM

He might be doing too much in terms of CF.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on September 26, 2010
at 06:57 PM

Good call on stress/rest/sleep.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on September 26, 2010
at 03:33 PM

also, check his "no calorie" sweeteners. Insulin spikes from alot of those can delay weight loss.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on September 26, 2010
at 03:26 PM

my maintenance plan for keeping 6 pack and yet playing high intensity sports 4-5days a week, revolves around timed refeeds to maintain muscle glucose... but going into every activity fasted. Works wonders.

D5db204527668aa712504995c0f8f96f

(551)

on September 26, 2010
at 03:22 PM

Thanks for the answer Stephen, You pretty much said what I was thinking. I'm pretty sure he is body recomping. And, like you, I was thinking about making him eat very little on some days, and moderate on training days. Thanks.

D5db204527668aa712504995c0f8f96f

(551)

on September 26, 2010
at 03:08 PM

well, it's all paleo... Meat and vegetables for a total of 2400calories. May be a piece of sweet potato once in a while. He used to drink some milk but he stopped. Anyway, I will ask him to provide me his food log.

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16 Answers

best answer

3
4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

on September 26, 2010
at 03:11 PM

you are saying he didnt lose body fat, are you only using scale to determine that? if hes stronger, its likely hes just body comping. expecially if hes working out heavy. I went thru a period where I gained 3 lbs... but moved my belt in a notch...

if he's not noticing body recomp. I would check for food allergens. I have had 2 cases where an undiagnosed allergen stalled weight loss.

one was Dairy, the other was Egg.

barring that, I would adjust the timing of calories.

Very Low Calories on non workout days. Delay eating after heavy exercise and do some low intensity steady state(walking). then eat to refuel, but just enough to satiety. even if that means eat 3 times small portions, stop and wait.

barring that... PSMF with refeeds rips the fat off you.

Best of luck to him.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on September 28, 2010
at 01:14 AM

Depends entirely on intensity, If I feel weak or lethargic, it's usually accompanied by hunger... Refeed!

D5db204527668aa712504995c0f8f96f

(551)

on September 26, 2010
at 03:22 PM

Thanks for the answer Stephen, You pretty much said what I was thinking. I'm pretty sure he is body recomping. And, like you, I was thinking about making him eat very little on some days, and moderate on training days. Thanks.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on September 27, 2010
at 03:52 AM

It varied based on my HIIT exercise. If exercising 3+ days a week heavy I'd refeed twice a week. If twice a week heavy workouts then only 1 refeed. I made sure my muscle glycogen was GONE before I reloaded, and the results were a very tired man followed by great results.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on September 26, 2010
at 03:26 PM

my maintenance plan for keeping 6 pack and yet playing high intensity sports 4-5days a week, revolves around timed refeeds to maintain muscle glucose... but going into every activity fasted. Works wonders.

A68f24168bc0de414a038037e287b581

(4896)

on September 27, 2010
at 01:12 AM

Stephen, when you were doing PSMF how many days in a row would you go before having a refeed? I am guessing refeed is one day with more calories and fat? or is it one big meal every x days? Thanks, I am just about to try it for my stubborn waist fat.

A68f24168bc0de414a038037e287b581

(4896)

on September 27, 2010
at 10:53 PM

thanks! I am not sure if I will be able to monitor clearly or read my body well to know when I need to refeed... I figure that if I am getting really tired or lightheaded it would be time for a bigger meal. How long it takes for the glycogen to be gone?

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on March 24, 2013
at 01:47 PM

Stephen-Do you have a blog or list of resources? This sounds like exactly what I'm going through. I'm going to eliminate egg for a few weeks and see what happens (dairy is already out). I've been reading about refeeds, psmf, etc, but I still feel like I don't know what I'm doing. btw I'm female, and I'm afraid of messing with my hormones. I've already done LC (at 50g carbs) and 65% fat with no effect.

2
16ac9720030cbf0908f56da404ab01b9

(289)

on September 26, 2010
at 10:38 PM

14% of a 2400 calorie diet is 84 grams of carbs per day. Even at his body weight, that's too high by half at least. I'm half his size and staying under 20 grams per day, and I only need to lose 15 pounds.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on September 27, 2010
at 06:18 AM

Some can totally lose weight on this level of carb. Actually, I htink most people can. But not all.

691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on September 27, 2010
at 02:26 PM

if he's eating 84 carbs a day and not losing weight tho, this is a good call.

2
535ced7ff5ffbb44c471ce3751d058cb

(64)

on September 26, 2010
at 06:55 PM

i find this to be a good tool to keep track of comping http://www.healthcentral.com/cholesterol/home-body-fat-test-2774-143.html

also could be a stress/rest problem as well

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on September 26, 2010
at 06:57 PM

Good call on stress/rest/sleep.

2
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on September 26, 2010
at 03:51 PM

I found that low carb icecream was enough to stall my weight loss COMPLETELY. Now I make coconut milk with berry smoothies instead. They are at least the same amount of calories and fat and there are still carbs, but for some reason, the coconut milk smoothies actually seem to really help my weight loss instead of hinder it. There are some things we still don't really understand.

I have heard that the top stalls for weight loss in lowcarb are diary, nut butters, and cheese. Is he eating a lot of any of these? If so, I'd suspect those. I do think nut butters in the form of occasional baking tend to slow down my weight loss, but I don't bake them often so it's not enough in my diet to cause a serious issue. But I'd guess if I were eating the nutbutter daily, it could also be enough to stall me out.

Also, potatoes are not your friend when trying to lose weight. Might want to cut back on that. Since you have carb intake listed as percentage of calories, I am not sure what the daily gram intake is, but could well be that he needs to cut back on carbs. Carbs are not your friend when trying to lose weight, and neither are starches. Not everyone needs carb after workout to maintain energy and glycogen levels. SOme do, some don't. MIght be something to experiment with. And if he's pounding down diary related muscle supplements, that could also be a problem.

2
D738a5b2a67f3c36518a2ac9f32d27af

on September 26, 2010
at 03:08 PM

He could try eating more fat. I do up to 70% of my calories in fat. When I'm at about 70/20/10 I lose weight. If he hasn't already he might also try lowering his carbs to less than 100 grams, or less than 50 if that doesn't work.

Mark Sisson has some ideas about this too:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/17-reasons-youre-not-losing-weight/

(I sound like an ad for Primal, but I find Mark's posts to be the most useful and easy to understand for me.)

1
095ef76482234d3db444b77d7ed01c29

(2755)

on September 27, 2010
at 11:24 PM

@ Jon Throddsen . Yes you are correct...when dealing with someone eating the "standard" low fat high carbohydrate diet loaded with modern processed foods. However, the high fat content keeps you out of "starvation" mode, puts you in a fat burning metabolism (once you get past the sugar withdrawals) and is actually muscle sparing.

1
095ef76482234d3db444b77d7ed01c29

(2755)

on September 26, 2010
at 10:05 PM

He will have to do some simple math. 10 calories/lb of LEAN BODY MASS. Not total body weight. 60% fat 35% protein and 5% carbs. Drop the nuts and seeds. Drop the fruit. Hardcore keto until he's where he wants to be then paleo to maintain or to even build muscle.

16ac9720030cbf0908f56da404ab01b9

(289)

on September 27, 2010
at 02:13 AM

I'm doing the Eades' 6 week cure, and the first two weeks are pretty calorie restricted. Definitely not Paleo, but effective, and after two weeks the calories increase once you teach your body to burn fat instead of screaming for sugar. The first two days were hell though.

16ac9720030cbf0908f56da404ab01b9

(289)

on September 26, 2010
at 10:22 PM

Your formula is exactly what it takes for me to lose weight. I'm 5'1, 135 pounds, 73% lean body mass. 1,000 calories a day, pure ketosis. Losing about 2 pounds a week and every ounce is a dogfight. Once he's at his desired weight he can loosen up on the measuring and counting, but when you're trying to change a habit, it's too easy to fool yourself.

F6c1df7d5699661bd1f0d6d0a6c17fc6

on September 26, 2010
at 10:56 PM

Aren't you are going to go into starvation mode according to this formula. Cunningham equation gives around 3000 cals for 160 pounds of lean mass. Your equation gives 1600 cals. That's a difference of 1400 cals per day or 2 pounds of fat per week. Isn't that too much?

326c6f4129b1e2c31fb8d4b38c1befc7

(30)

on June 08, 2011
at 09:35 PM

Hey Lacey-- I will admit I don't know about the Eades' diet, but it makes me a bit nervous! I am just under 5'2", and was 136 pounds. I started Weight Watchers in mid-November, and am now hovering around 120/119, having hit that around Easter (early April). You can totally do paleo on WW, b/c the only thing they do is give you a point system, and if you stay in that point system, you will lose weight. It's slow, but was pretty steady for me. Actually, I would've lost it faster, but I was out of the country for awhile, and just let go of both paleo and WW! And I didn't scream!

1
A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on September 26, 2010
at 07:15 PM

How much is he sleeping?? His cortisol could be out of control.

1
03b67d2b8e9e878147cb3f225c864207

(766)

on September 26, 2010
at 03:05 PM

Without a foodlog we likely can't help. Please gather and post 3 days of detailed eating and drinking.

D5db204527668aa712504995c0f8f96f

(551)

on September 26, 2010
at 03:08 PM

well, it's all paleo... Meat and vegetables for a total of 2400calories. May be a piece of sweet potato once in a while. He used to drink some milk but he stopped. Anyway, I will ask him to provide me his food log.

0
F6b28b8f67467af0337a0381a6857f4f

(203)

on April 18, 2013
at 07:11 AM

congrats you found your buds maintenance. He is probably eating more than he thinks he is also. Lower calories and the weight will drop.

0
9e9f2a144af206c41c989ce09ef47554

on April 18, 2013
at 06:37 AM

It's pretty strange. Are you sure that you consume less calories than you waste? http://www.shoppharmacycounter.com/

0
F87e428eca3fc7ac599808a36528e797

on March 24, 2013
at 12:39 PM

Have you done body measurements other than body fat and weight? Starting now I would recommend taking his body's measurements (hips, chest, waist, etc.) because he could have lost inches in that month but you won't know because you didn't measure them. Body fat is extremely hard to measure accurately without expensive tests, so what was your method for measuring it, as your results could just be inaccurate by default. I would definitely start measuring his body itself before doing any drastic changes (especially if he FEELS good on the diet and exercise routine.)

0
510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20898)

on February 01, 2013
at 03:18 PM

CFFB is hugely glycolytic. The two problems I see are: 1) too much CFFB, I love that program and use principles from that for my workouts, but 4-5 times a week is too much, especially for a weight loss goal; and 2) doing CFFB fasted is completely going against fat loss/strength gains, it's so glycolyticly demanding, you need to be properly fueled before and after the workouts.

0
9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

on September 26, 2010
at 09:55 PM

I like Kurt Harris' short and sweet advice on the subject:

http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2009/8/27/how-to-lose-weight.html

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 21, 2011
at 04:47 PM

That is a superb article! THanks for sharing it.

6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

(1169)

on July 26, 2012
at 04:50 PM

Very useful although I've always thought getting that hungry does not really work for me.

0
30fd031cc07a0d7dee7f1cad57f48a0c

(443)

on September 26, 2010
at 03:08 PM

Medical history/medications and more stats (height/age/family history) would be nice. Get him to keep (an honest) food journal for a week for a further eval and repost.

-1
153573bf4bacab32d6ca1f3a71851016

on February 01, 2013
at 03:00 PM

On my weight loss site I've described a few reasons of this. You can read it if you still can't find the answer

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