2

votes

Newbie, trying to get it right

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 07, 2011 at 3:42 PM

Okay, I know there is no one "right" but I am trying to find what works for me. I am late to the paleo dance, but not to thinking about food and its effects. For the last couple of years, I have been dairy and gluten free (as soon as I did that, my constant stuffy-nose allergies went away for good). Just reacently, I have tried to go more paleo, but as you know there are many diferent interpretations under that umbrella. I am for now tracking my food on Fitday. Yesterday, I ate 2420 calories (I am male, 49, 6'1, and 228 pounds...I workout six days a week in a combination of resistance training and cardio intervals...I need to drop some bodyfat). Of that, 37% was protein (214 g), 35% was fat (89.6 g) and 28% was carb (168.1 g). My food sources are eggs, ham, turkey (minimally processed), almonds, broccoli, rice protein powder, blueberries, etc. I am now trying to limit fruit to about one a day. I still spread my food out over five small meals a day. Anyway, that isn't every detail, but it gives you an idea. It's too early to tell what's happening with my body compositon, but I feel good. As a newbie, I welcome tweaks and suggestions. Thanks!

B

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on January 07, 2011
at 08:06 PM

See it now. I agree with the others that the exercise is overdone. I lost a lot of weight and the majority of those pounds came off before I started exercising.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on January 07, 2011
at 06:09 PM

"I need to drop some bodyfat"--Brad, 7 January 2011

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on January 07, 2011
at 05:54 PM

Do what works for you. =)

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on January 07, 2011
at 05:43 PM

I didn't read that the stated goal was fat loss. Maybe I missed it. At any rate, if fat loss is not the goal, but simply to "get it right," then I posit that Brad already has it mostly right (after all, he says he feels good)!

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on January 07, 2011
at 05:27 PM

I completed The New Rules of Lifting last year....this is just what I prefer. To me, it's more functional strength.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on January 07, 2011
at 05:22 PM

That's why you think 6x/week is fine; you're not lifting. Unless you have severe orthopedic issues from prior injuries, it is more likely that you don't know how to squat properly, rather than squatting being intrinsically too hard on your joints. If anything, an intelligent barbell program should improve your joints. Besides, even if squatting is out, you can still deadlift and press. At your age, if you can't DL 1.5x your bodyweight, you are missing out (and that's a conservative number). I am biased toward barbell training, so take that with a grain of salt. The yoga is good stuff.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on January 07, 2011
at 05:05 PM

My training program is almost all bodyweight exercises. I dont load up a bar with plates and squat with it...too hard on the hips and knees, IMO. Lots of bodyweight lunges, squats, pushups, pullups, etc. One of my weekly workouts is an hour of yoga.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on January 07, 2011
at 04:49 PM

What does your lifting program look like? Movements, reps, sets, weights, # of days per week? What are your overall goals? I have no doubt you are active (probably more so than I am!), but 49 years is 30 years away from 19, when boys are invincible and sky-high testosterone. I have trouble recovering from 3-4x/week, and I am 30. You may have better genes or a better training program, though.

00fe9c58f7020500007bd5f9638747fa

on January 07, 2011
at 04:48 PM

Even if you're not over trained, the increased cortisol from so much training will keep weight on you. Chicken and Turkey are okaaaay, but you want as much variety of good dense protein as you can get, so really try to eat anything you can find. Try to keep the meat high quality.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on January 07, 2011
at 04:46 PM

Chicken and turkey are fine, but my impression is that you are not roasting a turkey; you're getting "minimally processed" deli meat. It's junk meat compared to real meat, even if it's organic and minimally processed. I will eat it if I am starving, otherwise no. Chicken breast is... well, my least favorite part of the animal. So little fat, so little flavor. I buy whole chickens, not chicken parts. Finally, if you are eating all pastured meat, then great. But if not, beef is apparently a better choice for health due to the fact that ruminants are less affected by grain-feeding.

00fe9c58f7020500007bd5f9638747fa

on January 07, 2011
at 04:45 PM

The whey protein will cause you a couple issues. 1) the insulin spike from the liquid food 2) Since it's not a dense protein source, you wont get the glucagon output that meat would provide. So you're giving up the insulin sensitivity there too I'd rather see you eat less protein, more fat, and less carb with no liquid food and no rice.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on January 07, 2011
at 04:34 PM

Thanks for your help. Is there anything wrong with eating chicken and turkey? I don't feel like I overtrain. The cario intervals are short and intense, and only a couple days a week. Depite my state of advanced geriatrics :) I am very active....a blue belt in brazilian jiu jitsu and a hang glider pilot.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on January 07, 2011
at 04:12 PM

This is mostly what I was going to say. There is no good reason for you to take protein powder if you are not trying to gain 10 lbs. Ideally, I would also ditch the ham and turkey, and eat real meat. Also, possibly train less frequently but lift heavier. 6 days a week is a lot, and if it's not a lot, then you're probably not training with any kind of intensity. I think at your age and weight and goals, 3-4x a week is a better plan. Later on, you can also experiment with eating less frequently and intermittent fasting, but do not do this before diet and sleep are perfect.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on January 07, 2011
at 04:11 PM

I am taking fish oil, and I get plenty of quality sleep. I know the problems with "drinking your calories" but I do that to get my protein ratio higher. I'm not sure if I can stomach yet another chicken breast or bison burger or slice of turkey. I eat only an ounce of almonds each day.

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6 Answers

6
6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on January 07, 2011
at 04:42 PM

Your stated goal is fat loss, not muscle mass gain. You need to align your program with your goals:

1) Get your carbs down to 50 to 100 grams per day. If you want to try ketosis, you can even go less than 50gm.

2) Eat less frequently. Your body needs time in a fasted state to metabolize stored bodyfat.

3) Agree with Jae that 214gm of protein per day is too much. Try using Sisson's formula of 0.7 to 1gm of protein per LEAN pound of bodyweight per day. Example: 200lb. total bodyweight with 20% bodyfat means 160lb. of lean weight; recommended protein intake is 112 to 160gm per day.

4) Too much or too-frequent interval training can be stressful, which can raise your cortisol level and interfere with fat loss. Cut your interval training to 1 to 2 times per week.

5) Welcome, and good luck!

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on January 07, 2011
at 05:43 PM

I didn't read that the stated goal was fat loss. Maybe I missed it. At any rate, if fat loss is not the goal, but simply to "get it right," then I posit that Brad already has it mostly right (after all, he says he feels good)!

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on January 07, 2011
at 08:06 PM

See it now. I agree with the others that the exercise is overdone. I lost a lot of weight and the majority of those pounds came off before I started exercising.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on January 07, 2011
at 06:09 PM

"I need to drop some bodyfat"--Brad, 7 January 2011

3
00fe9c58f7020500007bd5f9638747fa

on January 07, 2011
at 03:53 PM

Ditch the protein powder, and drop that fruit to once a week, or only immediately after working out. I'd drop that carb percentage way down and up the fat.

The big issues in leaning out are firstly, the grains and dairy which you're good on, then liquid food (a big no-no), then fake sweeteners, and finally sleep and stress. Try to make sure you're getting a solid 8-9 hours of sleep in a pitch black room. Another thing that can derail you is too many nuts, but from your ratios this doesn't seem to be the case.

Are you taking fish oil?

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on January 07, 2011
at 04:11 PM

I am taking fish oil, and I get plenty of quality sleep. I know the problems with "drinking your calories" but I do that to get my protein ratio higher. I'm not sure if I can stomach yet another chicken breast or bison burger or slice of turkey. I eat only an ounce of almonds each day.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on January 07, 2011
at 04:12 PM

This is mostly what I was going to say. There is no good reason for you to take protein powder if you are not trying to gain 10 lbs. Ideally, I would also ditch the ham and turkey, and eat real meat. Also, possibly train less frequently but lift heavier. 6 days a week is a lot, and if it's not a lot, then you're probably not training with any kind of intensity. I think at your age and weight and goals, 3-4x a week is a better plan. Later on, you can also experiment with eating less frequently and intermittent fasting, but do not do this before diet and sleep are perfect.

00fe9c58f7020500007bd5f9638747fa

on January 07, 2011
at 04:45 PM

The whey protein will cause you a couple issues. 1) the insulin spike from the liquid food 2) Since it's not a dense protein source, you wont get the glucagon output that meat would provide. So you're giving up the insulin sensitivity there too I'd rather see you eat less protein, more fat, and less carb with no liquid food and no rice.

2
77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on January 07, 2011
at 04:21 PM

Lurene said mostly what I would have said. Some additional points:

  • Ditch the ham and turkey. Eat real meat. Steak, fish, lamb, liver, whatever.

  • You don't need to keep your protein so high. I use protein powder, but then again, I am looking to gain 25 lbs., and you are not. Ditch the protein powder.

  • Stop eating bison burgers and chicken breasts and eat some real meat. Nothing wrong with bison burgers, actually, but you seem to love protein and fear fat.

  • Possibly train less, but lift heavier. 6 days a week is a lot, especially at your age, and especially if you are not a serious, competitive athlete. 3-4x a week is plenty. If 6 doesn't seem overwhelming to you, you probably need to train more intensely but with less frequency. More weight, fewer reps. Possibly harder intervals, but that is playing with fire if you don't have a great trainer (recipe for injury).

  • Eventually, you can experiment with eating less frequently and intermittent fasting. My preference is not to mess with IF unless everything else is perfect (diet, sleep, training, stress). 5x a day works for some people, but it's not necessary.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on January 07, 2011
at 05:05 PM

My training program is almost all bodyweight exercises. I dont load up a bar with plates and squat with it...too hard on the hips and knees, IMO. Lots of bodyweight lunges, squats, pushups, pullups, etc. One of my weekly workouts is an hour of yoga.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on January 07, 2011
at 05:27 PM

I completed The New Rules of Lifting last year....this is just what I prefer. To me, it's more functional strength.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on January 07, 2011
at 04:46 PM

Chicken and turkey are fine, but my impression is that you are not roasting a turkey; you're getting "minimally processed" deli meat. It's junk meat compared to real meat, even if it's organic and minimally processed. I will eat it if I am starving, otherwise no. Chicken breast is... well, my least favorite part of the animal. So little fat, so little flavor. I buy whole chickens, not chicken parts. Finally, if you are eating all pastured meat, then great. But if not, beef is apparently a better choice for health due to the fact that ruminants are less affected by grain-feeding.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on January 07, 2011
at 05:22 PM

That's why you think 6x/week is fine; you're not lifting. Unless you have severe orthopedic issues from prior injuries, it is more likely that you don't know how to squat properly, rather than squatting being intrinsically too hard on your joints. If anything, an intelligent barbell program should improve your joints. Besides, even if squatting is out, you can still deadlift and press. At your age, if you can't DL 1.5x your bodyweight, you are missing out (and that's a conservative number). I am biased toward barbell training, so take that with a grain of salt. The yoga is good stuff.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on January 07, 2011
at 04:49 PM

What does your lifting program look like? Movements, reps, sets, weights, # of days per week? What are your overall goals? I have no doubt you are active (probably more so than I am!), but 49 years is 30 years away from 19, when boys are invincible and sky-high testosterone. I have trouble recovering from 3-4x/week, and I am 30. You may have better genes or a better training program, though.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on January 07, 2011
at 05:54 PM

Do what works for you. =)

00fe9c58f7020500007bd5f9638747fa

on January 07, 2011
at 04:48 PM

Even if you're not over trained, the increased cortisol from so much training will keep weight on you. Chicken and Turkey are okaaaay, but you want as much variety of good dense protein as you can get, so really try to eat anything you can find. Try to keep the meat high quality.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on January 07, 2011
at 04:34 PM

Thanks for your help. Is there anything wrong with eating chicken and turkey? I don't feel like I overtrain. The cario intervals are short and intense, and only a couple days a week. Depite my state of advanced geriatrics :) I am very active....a blue belt in brazilian jiu jitsu and a hang glider pilot.

1
D38c0cc994b194de08289e0fe3f99d1e

(421)

on January 07, 2011
at 06:28 PM

Here's my two cents...

It sounds like you are eating (or perhaps avoiding) the right things, but your macro nutrient ratios are way off. I generally agree with Ed's suggestions. Keep your carbs < 100g/day (when it comes to carbs, "less is more"), and your protien ~150g/day; then eat as much fat as you want and need to maintain good energy levels (once you up the fat, the carbs will naturally drop). I'm not sure what your goals are, but this will facilitate weight loss and give you better overall energy levels (4read better workouts) and mood.

You should also cut back on the number of meals. 2/day (e.g., 7am & 7pm) works good, or you might try the 8-hour feeding window approach (e.g., Noon-to-8pm, with 2 light meals and 1 main meal post workout). Checkout the LeanGains website for more info on fasting for lean muscle gains. link text

I would also recommend trying a 36-hour keto-fast. I do this weekly Fri7PM-to-Sun7AM; I completely restrict carbs and protein, take 6 Tbs min. coconut oil daily and eat ghee and heavy cream to maintain energy; I also always have a hard interval workout SatAM. So long as you eat enough fat, you should feel great coming off the fast SunAM and it will SHRED body fat!!

Here are a few additional tweaks. For carbs, stick with veggies and limit fruits. Ditch the rice protien powder. For protein/meats, eat more ruminants (read beef particularly 75/25 ground beef). Add butter/ghee to protein and veggies; it tastes great and it will increase the fat; other great fats are heavy cream and cheeses.

Good luck!

1
Af9537cfa50562b67979624e9007e12a

(1334)

on January 07, 2011
at 05:37 PM

others have said most of this already: you need to start using weights, even on your pull-ups and push-ups. and if you started squatting with minimal weight and gradually sneak it up, odds are you will see your hip / knee issues go away. I am about your age and I had quite a bit of knee pain for years until I started doing squats a couple times a week. I find that 2 or 3 hard workouts per week are plenty. and yes, get the carbs lower and eat real meat. I like chicken leg quarters and thighs much more than breasts. pork roasts in the crockpot are another easy/cheap way to keep the protein up.

0
9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

on January 08, 2011
at 06:44 AM

Like others have said, lower your protein intake. I'm sure it doesn't feel natural to eat that much protein.

Lean meat and paleo is a myth.

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