3

votes

Making myself gluten sensitive

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 17, 2012 at 8:26 AM

Right, could think of a catchy title sorry peeps. Any Hoo.

Since eating paleo and cutting out gluten I've noticed whenever I get gluten in the smallest amounts in my diet I'm I'll. I need the toilet and my stomach feels like a washing machine. I've tried googling why or if I just never noticed it before I started paleo.

Ive been telling people how great I feel eating the way I do and if I eat gluten they say I've made myself allergic to gluten and we should have everything in moderation (dumb arses) but I would like a reason or a mechanism why this happens to win the argument.

I heard paul chek say last night he has eaten healthy for so long that his insides are like a butterfly and if he eats a chocolate cake he would shit his pants, which isn't a million miles of my past experiences. (Shitting in woods is not fun)

Give me an answer guys!!

Cheers

E2b72f1912f777917d8ee6b7fba43c26

(2384)

on March 18, 2012
at 08:02 AM

Hi, nevertheless is gluten damaging your intestine, the difference is that your body can now tell you this fact. I would rather try to eliminate *everything* even slightly irritating and give the gut time to heal. It's not uncommon that allergies subside some time after the offending foods have been excluded. Especially gluten seems to open "doors" for other allergies. Desensitization in my opinion doesn't get to the heart of the matter.

8e1876a74536739ecf7bef97d5d97b76

(747)

on March 18, 2012
at 02:07 AM

Then, given this logic is it a bad idea to desensitize yourself from things? I ask because I do have a food allergy and I was thinking of springing to desensitize since the food item in question is a staple to paleo life

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on March 17, 2012
at 02:56 PM

Damn I really like your answers, Milla!

C836b2644e7319bb957fbb794a97708e

on March 17, 2012
at 08:50 AM

I have often wondered about this! I also think its kinda funny that topics seem to appear in batches. I had NO idea you posted this when I wrote my own post about gluten etc. As for your topic.. I do wonder if variety in toxins gives us immunity to it in small doses. Peter Griffin can eat a twinkey and even maybe survive on them during a nuclear disaster(some episode or another did that plot) but if you or I tried to eat one we would die!

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12 Answers

8
B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on March 17, 2012
at 11:54 AM

Shitting in the woods sucks dude. I was camping once and the campsite toilet door was bolted dead like a nuclear effing bunker, so we had to head for the bush every time nature called.

-_-

There really is a trend for heightened sensitivity to irritants. I think the key to this is simply the adaptability of the human body to various stressors. Gluten is an irritant. Some people feel it more acutely than others (I don't mean autoimmune responses to gluten, or allergies; I'm talking about the digestibility of the protein itself). Gliadin and other wheat albumins are very hard to digest, and undigested gliadin irritates the digestive tract; some studies on gliadin even show gluten has a modifying effect on the cells of the small intestine - thus casting doubt on the idea that gluten is harmless for non-celiacs. Gliadins can increase permeability of the outer layer of cells of the digestive tract, making it more vulnerable to toxins.

But the human body is adaptable. You can build up an immunity to almost anything; There is even evidence that humans and other animals can build up resistance to arsenic! Have a look at this: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~toxmetal/toxic-metals/arsenic/arsenic-faq.html "A society of "arsenic eaters" who deliberately consumed arsenic-laden soils in their religious practices developed a high tolerance for arsenic. Rasputin was reported to regularly ingest arsenic to build tolerance and to protect himself from poisoning". I don't know about Rasputin, but you can indeed build up a tolerance to poisons. I'm not saying gluten is equal to arsenic, but it is an irritant nonetheless.

Another thing is that this adaptability, combined with the consumption of numerous other irritants and toxins in the standard western diet (oxidised seed oils, refined sugars, chemical additives, etc), mean that there is a constant barrage of the internal system - especially the digestive tract - with harmful substances. This is similar to acute stress turning into chronic stress. The human body just adapts and scales down the response signals because they simply do not work to stop the stress. So, when you stop eating processed food, the gut heals, and so does the response system. A healthy gut will let you know very clearly that you've ingested something harmful.

This does not seem to apply to traditionally fermented grains such as sourdough, which even celiacs can sometimes tolerate. I don't eat grains; but if there was a situation in which grains were the only food option, I could make do. And the human body can adapt, especially in extreme situations. Like a forest without a toilet...sigh...

That's my take on things.

Keep well!

Milla

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on March 17, 2012
at 02:56 PM

Damn I really like your answers, Milla!

7
E2b72f1912f777917d8ee6b7fba43c26

(2384)

on March 17, 2012
at 01:47 PM

I guess you were sensitized to gluten all along. But similar to a desensitization therapy for allergies your body got used to it.

An ordinary SAD diet includes gluten every day, so your gut was constantly under fire.

Now that you've avoided it for some time, your body has lost this desensitization. (actually not a bad thing), but whenever you eat gluten now, you will definitely notice.

So paleo didn't make you gluten sensitive, but gave your gut the time to heal. It's now possible for your digestion to "tell" you, which food was unhealthy. I think thats a great acquirement!

8e1876a74536739ecf7bef97d5d97b76

(747)

on March 18, 2012
at 02:07 AM

Then, given this logic is it a bad idea to desensitize yourself from things? I ask because I do have a food allergy and I was thinking of springing to desensitize since the food item in question is a staple to paleo life

E2b72f1912f777917d8ee6b7fba43c26

(2384)

on March 18, 2012
at 08:02 AM

Hi, nevertheless is gluten damaging your intestine, the difference is that your body can now tell you this fact. I would rather try to eliminate *everything* even slightly irritating and give the gut time to heal. It's not uncommon that allergies subside some time after the offending foods have been excluded. Especially gluten seems to open "doors" for other allergies. Desensitization in my opinion doesn't get to the heart of the matter.

5
7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on March 17, 2012
at 02:35 PM

Going gluten free doesn't make you sensitive to gluten, but it can uncover a sensitivity to gluten you hadn't noticed before or didn't know you had. Plenty of people go gluten free, and when they re-challenge, don't have any problems. My husband is in this camp.

In my case, I thought I had tried testing for gluten intolerance a few years ago by eating straight gluten. It didn't make me ill, so I thought I was fine, but I didn't notice a difference because I was already sick (too much noise for the signal to come through). Then nearly a year ago I was diagnosed with celiac disease and went off gluten, and started getting more and more sensitive, down to ridiculously trace amounts of gluten. But now that I'm healing up, I'm less sensitive, so I'm more like a "normal celiac" who can tolerate a few ppm of gluten.

My point here is that if you're sensitive to gluten, but getting loads of it, you won't necessarily be able to tell you have a problem with it from a particular dose, because you're in a state of poor health. When you do get better, you could go through a more sensitive period, as your bowel ecosystem struggles to reach a steady state. And then when you're healed and everything is running along smoothly, you could be resilient to small doses. But if you aren't sensitive to gluten, which seems to be the case for some genetically blessed individuals, then you won't become gluten sensitive just by going gluten free.

3
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 17, 2012
at 06:59 PM

It's possible the bacteria that digest the particular components of wheat just aren't as populous as before. It's also possible that some enzyme activity is down-regulated. They have found that to be the case in people who abstain from meat, but as far as I know, it hasn't been studied in grain consumption. There is also no evidence that consuming gluten in people who don't have celiac increase gut permeability or other markers of damage. There are some promising animal and in vitro studies, but until a human study is done that shows real damage it's just speculation. It's frustrating because there are some studies that show that something bad is happening, but so far the markers they have tested have shown nothing. They need to look at more markers.

But it makes sense. I take Glutenease (a bunch of enzymes) if I eat gluten and I feel fine, which supports the down-regulation of enzymes theory in my case. But if you are reacting really badly, it's worth getting the celiac biopsy because if you do really have celiac, then you are going to need to be really strict.

2
A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on March 17, 2012
at 11:31 PM

Some good answers so far. My take, it's probably a big part bacterial colonizers. Lucas Tafur posted about a study a while back in which two Rothia bacteria, R. mucilaginosa and R. aeria, were found to help digest gliadin peptides and theoretically prevent immune response. They are also common oral and gut colonizers. Other studies have demonstrated the protective effects of many different microorganisms following gluten consumption, including various Bifidobacterium bacteria.

To me it seems plausible that certain bacteria can protect us from gluten and cessation of wheat consumption causes them to diminish.

Another theory, and this is very speculative, is that the type of immune response may be different when gluten consumption is rare and sporadic. Different types and quantities of T cells produced will vary in their ability to damage enterocytes and cause inflammation. This might tie into the answer discussing tolerance and adaptability.

2
510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on March 17, 2012
at 03:28 PM

Yeah, just to reiterate what others said here. You were ALWAYS gluten sensitive, you just didn't know. That's why the whole "clean up your diet for 30 days and then slowly re-add things" works. It lets you know what you can't handle. The only want to do that is to get clean and then see what screws you up.

1
Ad1556f9c3c5d17003935e3d65509008

on December 25, 2012
at 10:56 AM

If he never had those symptoms before, then by definition he was not sensitized previously. Sensitivity means exactly what it implies - ability to sense something.

I've had allergy tests and nothing was found. But I decided to try gluten-free anyway as a last resort to try improve chronic pain after conventional medicine had given up on me. Prior to starting gluten-free I very rarely had headaches and they didn't last long.

After 4 weeks of trying gluten-free and feeling no change (except in my wallet) so I thought nothing of reverting. Like everyone said, it wouldn't hurt to try the diet. Wrong. My first time going back to gluten I was hit with a 4 day suicide headache, unlike I'd ever experienced. I thought it was some brain-eating bacteria that I'd die from. I can try describe it as blinding, drilling and intense pressure. I took every "pain killer" possible but they hardly touched the headache.

I went back to gluten-free but I slowly tried different gluten products. e.g. a large piece of cake which gave me no headache. So far I've found that some barley beers (but not others) bring on the headache, and some wheat wafers. I haven't dared go back to my normal gluten diet because of the headache. I'm slowly testing the waters, seeing what I must avoid. It is definitely a case of having sensitized myself, because I previously was not sensitive to these same items. i.e. my body didn't sense them in any abnormal way.

0
A3c56c85290f748410a6f340ddd552b3

on March 12, 2013
at 10:23 PM

There is a little bit of understandable confusion that a lot of folks eat crap and FEEL FINE, so why is it "good" to go to real foods and then find themselves sensitive to damaging substances?

To help myself understand it, this is my attempt to simplify:

You can become desensitized to damaging inputs, just like you stop noticing the rust on your car after a year or two of not washing it. But after years (or decades) of damaging inputs, you will be VERY likely (nothing is certain) to acquire a nasty degenerative disease from MS to depression to Parkinson's, etc. Just like after years of rust, you car will probably fall apart, but I've seem some crazy held-together-with-fairy-dust-and-duct-tape kinds of vehicles - we all have. Those are the "eat crap and live to 90" people, and they are rare.

The (paleo?) alternative is a shiny new car that makes you wince and whine anytime you get a dent or a windshield chip. Every time you take it to the gas pump you have to pay for the premium fuel or things don't run as well. But BOY does that car run well when you're nice to it!

0
C79c50f415f38ceb92aca5374f491f25

on March 12, 2013
at 09:46 PM

Its not just wheat, but also milk, corn and soy. and what else? I don not know. The post from paleo is interesting, becos I found this paleo diet book which i bought. The actual immunogenic peptide is small and several protein foods seem to cross react. I have to ramp up my meat eating as i am normally a veggie and it seems hard to give up root veggies and grains. But some of the grains/lentils also seem to cause problems. I am in the process of finding out through trial and suffering... In addition to responding to frequent nature calls, bloating, diarrhea and severe itching, i suffer from hyper-pigmentation on face neck and inner arms. Anbody have this problem? I had a hard time convincing my pcp that the hyper-pigmentation and diet were actually linked. They appear if I ignore my diet and slowly disappear (slower on my face than body). Several (and I mean many) dermatologists I've seen to date, don't even bother checking on the pigmentation.They conclude its melasma due to unknown etiology and throw skin-bleaching creams at me. I have finally decided to do it my way and try home remedies such as turmeric and lemon/lime juice etc,..., I am comfortable with it as I only see my face when I look in the mirror, but it bothers me that doctors don't listen to patients and their symptoms and draw conclusions w/o any tests. anyway the pcp is now convinced that is diet linked, and I am still looking for a researcher cum dermatologist who can help me.

0
F80aaa96354eb749a8a5efdda3feba7d

on March 18, 2012
at 01:51 AM

You tell them you were always sensitive. All you've done by cutting it out is hea your self and your gut. So now when today it it shows up as tummy problems. If you were to continue eating it again your gut would become messed up again and you would start to show sensitivities in other ways like fatigue, irritability, headaches etc...

So when a person says I used to be allergic to say milk, by now I'm fine. They're not usually, they've just masked the problem.

0
95ef9c154b9b24a3f41a44ec0275fd33

on March 17, 2012
at 05:57 PM

Cheers for responding guys. Excellent views, the clean. 30 days made me figure out was food was good and bad.

I also struggle with too much caffeine. Goes through me!!..... But I'm ignoring this. If my organic local coffee is gone I may aswell hang myself.

Forgot to mention . Also noticed gluten gives me a stonking headache too.

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